Coasty

It is my understanding the differences from the first gen radials was in
their construction and how the radial belts were made into the tire
compaired to todays construction new gen radials. I think it all had to do
with the belts and which direction they were wound but do not quite me I am
going from memory.



Coasty

Remove the SPOOGE to reply





"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:SUMVe.14599$ct5.3822@fed1read04...
> Matt, one of the major tire manufacturers... it had to have been BFG,
> Goodyear, or similar actually answered that question years ago. They
> explained that the first radial tires were manufacturerd on the same
> equipment used to make bias-belted tires which causes problems. What
> problems, I don't know.... other than you couldn't cross-rotate them. Then
> they came out with different manufacturing equipment that was specifically
> designed for radial tires that solved the issues with the first generation
> tires. I read it with my own two eyes, it wasn't my friend's cousin's
> brother-in-law that related that to me. :)
>
> Jerry
>
> Matt Osborn wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:18:09 -0700, Jerry Bransford <jerrypb@***.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That doesn't apply to standard radials, and hasn't in many years, only
>>>unidirectional radials like the ProComp XTerrain being asked about.
>>
>>
>> I know that auto and tire manufactures all agree that cross rotation
>> of radial tires (except uni-directional tires) is the desired rotation
>> method.
>>
>> What I'd like to know is why radial tires, when they were first made
>> popular, were restricted to same side rotation. I mean physically,
>> what was it that forced this deviation from the standard?
>>
>> Second, what have they done to the design of radial tires that now
>> allows cross rotation?
>>
>> Third, have these changes only made cross rotation possible, but not
>> necessarily good for the tires? That is, aside from uneven wear,
>> which is rotation method is actually better for the tire?
>>
>> I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, but they illustrate my
>> question.
>>
>> Original radial tires:
>>
>> Cross rotation has 10 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>> Same side has 5 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>>
>> Newer radial tires:
>>
>> Cross rotation has 5 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>> Same side has 2 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>>
>> Does anybody know the actual failure rate?
>>
>>
>> -- msosborn at msosborn dot com
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

Jeff Strickland

Rotate from front to back, and leave the spare on the rack. Don't make this
harder than it needs to be.

PS
The IN side of the tire is always toward the Jeep, but the tires turn one
way (CCW) on the left side, and the other way (CW) on the right side.





"Steve" <sbrady1(woo hoo)@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:HIIVe.2262$1G4.314991@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> Hey guys,
>
> Love my new 31" Procomp XT's...lookin meaner than those sissy stock tires
> ;)
>
> Anyhow, I'm coming up to a mileage point where I should rotate tires.
> I'd like to bring in my spare too....but seeing as the front left tire
> would go to the right rear, how can you do this if you can't flip the tire
> around (to keep the IN-side of the rim towards the jeep)??
>
> Rims are American racing 797's.
>

Jeff Strickland

Rotate from front to back, and leave the spare on the rack. Don't make this
harder than it needs to be.

PS
The IN side of the tire is always toward the Jeep, but the tires turn one
way (CCW) on the left side, and the other way (CW) on the right side.





"Steve" <sbrady1(woo hoo)@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:HIIVe.2262$1G4.314991@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> Hey guys,
>
> Love my new 31" Procomp XT's...lookin meaner than those sissy stock tires
> ;)
>
> Anyhow, I'm coming up to a mileage point where I should rotate tires.
> I'd like to bring in my spare too....but seeing as the front left tire
> would go to the right rear, how can you do this if you can't flip the tire
> around (to keep the IN-side of the rim towards the jeep)??
>
> Rims are American racing 797's.
>

Jeff Strickland

Rotate from front to back, and leave the spare on the rack. Don't make this
harder than it needs to be.

PS
The IN side of the tire is always toward the Jeep, but the tires turn one
way (CCW) on the left side, and the other way (CW) on the right side.





"Steve" <sbrady1(woo hoo)@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:HIIVe.2262$1G4.314991@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> Hey guys,
>
> Love my new 31" Procomp XT's...lookin meaner than those sissy stock tires
> ;)
>
> Anyhow, I'm coming up to a mileage point where I should rotate tires.
> I'd like to bring in my spare too....but seeing as the front left tire
> would go to the right rear, how can you do this if you can't flip the tire
> around (to keep the IN-side of the rim towards the jeep)??
>
> Rims are American racing 797's.
>

Matt Osborn

The whole question leaves me in doubt. Obviously, the tire
manufacturers 'thought' they were making the tires correctly and then
discovered the radial belt separation problem.

They then redesigned the manufacturing process to sufficiently
overcome the problem. It is the lack of specific information that
leaves the question unsettled.

It is not at all difficult for me to believe that the radial belts
will take a 'set ' based on the direction of rotation due to
centripetal forces. Reversing the rotation will must counter that
initial set of the radial belts. I can't see how that will improve the
safety of the tire.

I guess I'm just being stubborn, but I will trade the slight wear
differences in favor of safety.



On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:36:13 -0700, Jerry Bransford <jerrypb@***.net>
wrote:

>Matt, one of the major tire manufacturers... it had to have been BFG,
>Goodyear, or similar actually answered that question years ago. They
>explained that the first radial tires were manufacturerd on the same
>equipment used to make bias-belted tires which causes problems. What
>problems, I don't know.... other than you couldn't cross-rotate them.
>Then they came out with different manufacturing equipment that was
>specifically designed for radial tires that solved the issues with the
>first generation tires. I read it with my own two eyes, it wasn't my
>friend's cousin's brother-in-law that related that to me. :)
>
>Jerry
>
>Matt Osborn wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:18:09 -0700, Jerry Bransford <jerrypb@***.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That doesn't apply to standard radials, and hasn't in many years, only
>>>unidirectional radials like the ProComp XTerrain being asked about.
>>
>>
>> I know that auto and tire manufactures all agree that cross rotation
>> of radial tires (except uni-directional tires) is the desired rotation
>> method.
>>
>> What I'd like to know is why radial tires, when they were first made
>> popular, were restricted to same side rotation. I mean physically,
>> what was it that forced this deviation from the standard?
>>
>> Second, what have they done to the design of radial tires that now
>> allows cross rotation?
>>
>> Third, have these changes only made cross rotation possible, but not
>> necessarily good for the tires? That is, aside from uneven wear,
>> which is rotation method is actually better for the tire?
>>
>> I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, but they illustrate my
>> question.
>>
>> Original radial tires:
>>
>> Cross rotation has 10 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>> Same side has 5 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>>
>> Newer radial tires:
>>
>> Cross rotation has 5 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>> Same side has 2 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>>
>> Does anybody know the actual failure rate?
>>
>>
>> -- msosborn at msosborn dot com



-- msosborn at msosborn dot com

Matt Osborn

The whole question leaves me in doubt. Obviously, the tire
manufacturers 'thought' they were making the tires correctly and then
discovered the radial belt separation problem.

They then redesigned the manufacturing process to sufficiently
overcome the problem. It is the lack of specific information that
leaves the question unsettled.

It is not at all difficult for me to believe that the radial belts
will take a 'set ' based on the direction of rotation due to
centripetal forces. Reversing the rotation will must counter that
initial set of the radial belts. I can't see how that will improve the
safety of the tire.

I guess I'm just being stubborn, but I will trade the slight wear
differences in favor of safety.



On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:36:13 -0700, Jerry Bransford <jerrypb@***.net>
wrote:

>Matt, one of the major tire manufacturers... it had to have been BFG,
>Goodyear, or similar actually answered that question years ago. They
>explained that the first radial tires were manufacturerd on the same
>equipment used to make bias-belted tires which causes problems. What
>problems, I don't know.... other than you couldn't cross-rotate them.
>Then they came out with different manufacturing equipment that was
>specifically designed for radial tires that solved the issues with the
>first generation tires. I read it with my own two eyes, it wasn't my
>friend's cousin's brother-in-law that related that to me. :)
>
>Jerry
>
>Matt Osborn wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:18:09 -0700, Jerry Bransford <jerrypb@***.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That doesn't apply to standard radials, and hasn't in many years, only
>>>unidirectional radials like the ProComp XTerrain being asked about.
>>
>>
>> I know that auto and tire manufactures all agree that cross rotation
>> of radial tires (except uni-directional tires) is the desired rotation
>> method.
>>
>> What I'd like to know is why radial tires, when they were first made
>> popular, were restricted to same side rotation. I mean physically,
>> what was it that forced this deviation from the standard?
>>
>> Second, what have they done to the design of radial tires that now
>> allows cross rotation?
>>
>> Third, have these changes only made cross rotation possible, but not
>> necessarily good for the tires? That is, aside from uneven wear,
>> which is rotation method is actually better for the tire?
>>
>> I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, but they illustrate my
>> question.
>>
>> Original radial tires:
>>
>> Cross rotation has 10 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>> Same side has 5 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>>
>> Newer radial tires:
>>
>> Cross rotation has 5 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>> Same side has 2 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>>
>> Does anybody know the actual failure rate?
>>
>>
>> -- msosborn at msosborn dot com



-- msosborn at msosborn dot com

Matt Osborn

The whole question leaves me in doubt. Obviously, the tire
manufacturers 'thought' they were making the tires correctly and then
discovered the radial belt separation problem.

They then redesigned the manufacturing process to sufficiently
overcome the problem. It is the lack of specific information that
leaves the question unsettled.

It is not at all difficult for me to believe that the radial belts
will take a 'set ' based on the direction of rotation due to
centripetal forces. Reversing the rotation will must counter that
initial set of the radial belts. I can't see how that will improve the
safety of the tire.

I guess I'm just being stubborn, but I will trade the slight wear
differences in favor of safety.



On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:36:13 -0700, Jerry Bransford <jerrypb@***.net>
wrote:

>Matt, one of the major tire manufacturers... it had to have been BFG,
>Goodyear, or similar actually answered that question years ago. They
>explained that the first radial tires were manufacturerd on the same
>equipment used to make bias-belted tires which causes problems. What
>problems, I don't know.... other than you couldn't cross-rotate them.
>Then they came out with different manufacturing equipment that was
>specifically designed for radial tires that solved the issues with the
>first generation tires. I read it with my own two eyes, it wasn't my
>friend's cousin's brother-in-law that related that to me. :)
>
>Jerry
>
>Matt Osborn wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:18:09 -0700, Jerry Bransford <jerrypb@***.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That doesn't apply to standard radials, and hasn't in many years, only
>>>unidirectional radials like the ProComp XTerrain being asked about.
>>
>>
>> I know that auto and tire manufactures all agree that cross rotation
>> of radial tires (except uni-directional tires) is the desired rotation
>> method.
>>
>> What I'd like to know is why radial tires, when they were first made
>> popular, were restricted to same side rotation. I mean physically,
>> what was it that forced this deviation from the standard?
>>
>> Second, what have they done to the design of radial tires that now
>> allows cross rotation?
>>
>> Third, have these changes only made cross rotation possible, but not
>> necessarily good for the tires? That is, aside from uneven wear,
>> which is rotation method is actually better for the tire?
>>
>> I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, but they illustrate my
>> question.
>>
>> Original radial tires:
>>
>> Cross rotation has 10 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>> Same side has 5 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>>
>> Newer radial tires:
>>
>> Cross rotation has 5 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>> Same side has 2 failures in 1,000,000 miles
>>
>> Does anybody know the actual failure rate?
>>
>>
>> -- msosborn at msosborn dot com



-- msosborn at msosborn dot com

Steve

OK.....these are mud tires....so I expect more wear than on a standard tire.
So, if I don't rotate in teh spare.....30,000km down the road when I've worn
Xinches off my tires and I go to put on my spare which still has the little
bristles things on it.....will i not stress gearage and bearings by having
one tire large than another on the same axle?


"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:__2dnQ376qbfDrXeRVn-jA@ez2.net...
> Rotate from front to back, and leave the spare on the rack. Don't make
> this harder than it needs to be.
>
> PS
> The IN side of the tire is always toward the Jeep, but the tires turn one
> way (CCW) on the left side, and the other way (CW) on the right side.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Steve" <sbrady1(woo hoo)@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:HIIVe.2262$1G4.314991@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> Love my new 31" Procomp XT's...lookin meaner than those sissy stock tires
>> ;)
>>
>> Anyhow, I'm coming up to a mileage point where I should rotate tires.
>> I'd like to bring in my spare too....but seeing as the front left tire
>> would go to the right rear, how can you do this if you can't flip the
>> tire around (to keep the IN-side of the rim towards the jeep)??
>>
>> Rims are American racing 797's.
>>
>

Steve

OK.....these are mud tires....so I expect more wear than on a standard tire.
So, if I don't rotate in teh spare.....30,000km down the road when I've worn
Xinches off my tires and I go to put on my spare which still has the little
bristles things on it.....will i not stress gearage and bearings by having
one tire large than another on the same axle?


"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:__2dnQ376qbfDrXeRVn-jA@ez2.net...
> Rotate from front to back, and leave the spare on the rack. Don't make
> this harder than it needs to be.
>
> PS
> The IN side of the tire is always toward the Jeep, but the tires turn one
> way (CCW) on the left side, and the other way (CW) on the right side.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Steve" <sbrady1(woo hoo)@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:HIIVe.2262$1G4.314991@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> Love my new 31" Procomp XT's...lookin meaner than those sissy stock tires
>> ;)
>>
>> Anyhow, I'm coming up to a mileage point where I should rotate tires.
>> I'd like to bring in my spare too....but seeing as the front left tire
>> would go to the right rear, how can you do this if you can't flip the
>> tire around (to keep the IN-side of the rim towards the jeep)??
>>
>> Rims are American racing 797's.
>>
>

Steve

OK.....these are mud tires....so I expect more wear than on a standard tire.
So, if I don't rotate in teh spare.....30,000km down the road when I've worn
Xinches off my tires and I go to put on my spare which still has the little
bristles things on it.....will i not stress gearage and bearings by having
one tire large than another on the same axle?


"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:__2dnQ376qbfDrXeRVn-jA@ez2.net...
> Rotate from front to back, and leave the spare on the rack. Don't make
> this harder than it needs to be.
>
> PS
> The IN side of the tire is always toward the Jeep, but the tires turn one
> way (CCW) on the left side, and the other way (CW) on the right side.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Steve" <sbrady1(woo hoo)@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:HIIVe.2262$1G4.314991@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> Love my new 31" Procomp XT's...lookin meaner than those sissy stock tires
>> ;)
>>
>> Anyhow, I'm coming up to a mileage point where I should rotate tires.
>> I'd like to bring in my spare too....but seeing as the front left tire
>> would go to the right rear, how can you do this if you can't flip the
>> tire around (to keep the IN-side of the rim towards the jeep)??
>>
>> Rims are American racing 797's.
>>
>