Re: What kind of gas?
 

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:07:41 -0700 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys,
"Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> is alleged to have written:

>I think that we have tons of data to show that there is no advantage of
>running high test in a motor that is designed for regular. I can't image
>what possible advantage there might be on a road trip, but if one wanted to
>waste money somewhere, they may as well waste it on a road trip. I assume

I can imagine several possible advantages.

I can imagine that an motor that was designed for regular gas that
has 100K+ miles of wear, with some carbon deposits, etc. might knock
a bit more than it was designed to, giving an increased NoX reading
on the smog check. Even with a new EGR valve I read slightly above
average.

I can imagine that such a motor running regular gas might knock
enough for the computer listening to the knock sensor to retard the
spark enough to reduce milage. I can imagine that the effect of
that might be greater % than the price increment to go to a higher
grade.

I can imagine that the motor was designed to run on regular gas, but
that the crap sold for regular gas with MTBE to poison the Calif
ground water in it, federally subsidized Archer Daniels Midland EtOH
in it, and who knows what else, just isn't good enough. I can
imagine that a company like ARCO might be blatantly lying about what
the octane rating of their product really is.

I don't know what of those to believe, but there is nothing wrong
with my imagination.

Re: What kind of gas?
 

All of this could be true, but it is not in the context of the original
question, which came from a guy that just bought a Jeep an dasked what kind
of gas it needs. The correct answer is that it needs Regular.

Now, the variation on that answer is that some people might be tempted to
put High Test in for a road trip, and I conceed the point that there could
be some obscure advantage. But, the people that actually test these kinds of
things say that even for a road trip, there is no particular advantage of
using Premium fuel. This brings us back to the first correct answer, Regular
is what it needs.




"David Harmon" <source@netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3f611f81.737138@news.west.earthlink.net...
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:07:41 -0700 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys,
> "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> is alleged to have written:
>
> >I think that we have tons of data to show that there is no advantage of
> >running high test in a motor that is designed for regular. I can't image
> >what possible advantage there might be on a road trip, but if one wanted
to
> >waste money somewhere, they may as well waste it on a road trip. I assume
>
> I can imagine several possible advantages.
>
> I can imagine that an motor that was designed for regular gas that
> has 100K+ miles of wear, with some carbon deposits, etc. might knock
> a bit more than it was designed to, giving an increased NoX reading
> on the smog check. Even with a new EGR valve I read slightly above
> average.
>
> I can imagine that such a motor running regular gas might knock
> enough for the computer listening to the knock sensor to retard the
> spark enough to reduce milage. I can imagine that the effect of
> that might be greater % than the price increment to go to a higher
> grade.
>
> I can imagine that the motor was designed to run on regular gas, but
> that the crap sold for regular gas with MTBE to poison the Calif
> ground water in it, federally subsidized Archer Daniels Midland EtOH
> in it, and who knows what else, just isn't good enough. I can
> imagine that a company like ARCO might be blatantly lying about what
> the octane rating of their product really is.
>
> I don't know what of those to believe, but there is nothing wrong
> with my imagination.
>

Re: What kind of gas?
 

All of this could be true, but it is not in the context of the original
question, which came from a guy that just bought a Jeep an dasked what kind
of gas it needs. The correct answer is that it needs Regular.

Now, the variation on that answer is that some people might be tempted to
put High Test in for a road trip, and I conceed the point that there could
be some obscure advantage. But, the people that actually test these kinds of
things say that even for a road trip, there is no particular advantage of
using Premium fuel. This brings us back to the first correct answer, Regular
is what it needs.




"David Harmon" <source@netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3f611f81.737138@news.west.earthlink.net...
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:07:41 -0700 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys,
> "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> is alleged to have written:
>
> >I think that we have tons of data to show that there is no advantage of
> >running high test in a motor that is designed for regular. I can't image
> >what possible advantage there might be on a road trip, but if one wanted
to
> >waste money somewhere, they may as well waste it on a road trip. I assume
>
> I can imagine several possible advantages.
>
> I can imagine that an motor that was designed for regular gas that
> has 100K+ miles of wear, with some carbon deposits, etc. might knock
> a bit more than it was designed to, giving an increased NoX reading
> on the smog check. Even with a new EGR valve I read slightly above
> average.
>
> I can imagine that such a motor running regular gas might knock
> enough for the computer listening to the knock sensor to retard the
> spark enough to reduce milage. I can imagine that the effect of
> that might be greater % than the price increment to go to a higher
> grade.
>
> I can imagine that the motor was designed to run on regular gas, but
> that the crap sold for regular gas with MTBE to poison the Calif
> ground water in it, federally subsidized Archer Daniels Midland EtOH
> in it, and who knows what else, just isn't good enough. I can
> imagine that a company like ARCO might be blatantly lying about what
> the octane rating of their product really is.
>
> I don't know what of those to believe, but there is nothing wrong
> with my imagination.
>

Re: What kind of gas?
 

"Lon Stowell" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0ln8b.428342$uu5.76738@sccrnsc04...
--snippy--
> I know a "challenged" person that runs 87 in a car designed
> for premium only. They claim that the mileage doesn't drop
> by a mile per gallon and that normal driving performance isn't
> really that noticeable. I've suggested that they could be
> risking their warranty as I would suspect the OBD on a
> 1 year old car to log the amount of time the knock sensor
> has had to retard or change mix.
>
If it even has a knock sensor. Newer Jeeps apparently don't have them.
They rely on the computer to provide the correct timing based on various
sensor inputs, which do not include a knock sensor, and based on the
assumption that the engine is getting the correct octane fuel. Your
friend's engine could actually be pinging constantly, but just below the
level where one would hear it. That of course is not so good.

Earle

Re: What kind of gas?
 

"Lon Stowell" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0ln8b.428342$uu5.76738@sccrnsc04...
--snippy--
> I know a "challenged" person that runs 87 in a car designed
> for premium only. They claim that the mileage doesn't drop
> by a mile per gallon and that normal driving performance isn't
> really that noticeable. I've suggested that they could be
> risking their warranty as I would suspect the OBD on a
> 1 year old car to log the amount of time the knock sensor
> has had to retard or change mix.
>
If it even has a knock sensor. Newer Jeeps apparently don't have them.
They rely on the computer to provide the correct timing based on various
sensor inputs, which do not include a knock sensor, and based on the
assumption that the engine is getting the correct octane fuel. Your
friend's engine could actually be pinging constantly, but just below the
level where one would hear it. That of course is not so good.

Earle

Re: What kind of gas?
 

Approximately 9/12/03 10:47, Earle Horton uttered for posterity:

> "Lon Stowell" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:0ln8b.428342$uu5.76738@sccrnsc04...
> --snippy--
>> I know a "challenged" person that runs 87 in a car designed
>> for premium only. They claim that the mileage doesn't drop
>> by a mile per gallon and that normal driving performance isn't
>> really that noticeable. I've suggested that they could be
>> risking their warranty as I would suspect the OBD on a
>> 1 year old car to log the amount of time the knock sensor
>> has had to retard or change mix.
>>
> If it even has a knock sensor. Newer Jeeps apparently don't have them.

There are a goodly number of non-Jeeps on the road. And you don't
really think a real Jeeper would be this errr..... stupid. This
particular car is a Honda.

> They rely on the computer to provide the correct timing based on various
> sensor inputs, which do not include a knock sensor, and based on the
> assumption that the engine is getting the correct octane fuel. Your
> friend's engine could actually be pinging constantly, but just below the
> level where one would hear it. That of course is not so good.

It has a knock sensor. And a not particularly bright owner,
IMNHO.

Re: What kind of gas?
 

Approximately 9/12/03 10:47, Earle Horton uttered for posterity:

> "Lon Stowell" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:0ln8b.428342$uu5.76738@sccrnsc04...
> --snippy--
>> I know a "challenged" person that runs 87 in a car designed
>> for premium only. They claim that the mileage doesn't drop
>> by a mile per gallon and that normal driving performance isn't
>> really that noticeable. I've suggested that they could be
>> risking their warranty as I would suspect the OBD on a
>> 1 year old car to log the amount of time the knock sensor
>> has had to retard or change mix.
>>
> If it even has a knock sensor. Newer Jeeps apparently don't have them.

There are a goodly number of non-Jeeps on the road. And you don't
really think a real Jeeper would be this errr..... stupid. This
particular car is a Honda.

> They rely on the computer to provide the correct timing based on various
> sensor inputs, which do not include a knock sensor, and based on the
> assumption that the engine is getting the correct octane fuel. Your
> friend's engine could actually be pinging constantly, but just below the
> level where one would hear it. That of course is not so good.

It has a knock sensor. And a not particularly bright owner,
IMNHO.

Re: What kind of gas?
 

You have a special case with CJ though, just as I have a special case. The
original poster asked which gas to use in a TJ with a 6 and an automatic. He
needs regular.



"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F620CB9.6D227B40@sympatico.ca...
> I tested various grades in my CJ7 on a 4600 mile road trip. I have no
> working gas gauge and have to use the odometer so pay 'close' attention
> to mileage. (and keep a full gas container with me) ;-)
>
> In my case, my CJ with a 'tweaked' 258 needs high test gas with no
> alcohol. 100 miles+ extra per tank over regular or 'any' grade of
> alcohol mix. My Cherokee runs best on 'any' type of regular, we take
> that on lots of long driving trips too. It don't care one bit what type
> of regular goes in, it's mileage is pretty consistent. High test lowers
> the mileage and power if it does anything at all.
>
> Gas mileage tells all!
>
> Well... bogging out at 65 mph on an alcohol mix kinda says something
> too... ;-)
>
> Feel free to experiment, I sure did and benefited big time on one Jeep.
> :-)
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >
> > All of this could be true, but it is not in the context of the original
> > question, which came from a guy that just bought a Jeep an dasked what
kind
> > of gas it needs. The correct answer is that it needs Regular.
> >
> > Now, the variation on that answer is that some people might be tempted
to
> > put High Test in for a road trip, and I conceed the point that there
could
> > be some obscure advantage. But, the people that actually test these
kinds of
> > things say that even for a road trip, there is no particular advantage
of
> > using Premium fuel. This brings us back to the first correct answer,
Regular
> > is what it needs.
> >
> > "David Harmon" <source@netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:3f611f81.737138@news.west.earthlink.net...
> > > On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:07:41 -0700 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys,
> > > "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> is alleged to have written:
> > >
> > > >I think that we have tons of data to show that there is no advantage
of
> > > >running high test in a motor that is designed for regular. I can't
image
> > > >what possible advantage there might be on a road trip, but if one
wanted
> > to
> > > >waste money somewhere, they may as well waste it on a road trip. I
assume
> > >
> > > I can imagine several possible advantages.
> > >
> > > I can imagine that an motor that was designed for regular gas that
> > > has 100K+ miles of wear, with some carbon deposits, etc. might knock
> > > a bit more than it was designed to, giving an increased NoX reading
> > > on the smog check. Even with a new EGR valve I read slightly above
> > > average.
> > >
> > > I can imagine that such a motor running regular gas might knock
> > > enough for the computer listening to the knock sensor to retard the
> > > spark enough to reduce milage. I can imagine that the effect of
> > > that might be greater % than the price increment to go to a higher
> > > grade.
> > >
> > > I can imagine that the motor was designed to run on regular gas, but
> > > that the crap sold for regular gas with MTBE to poison the Calif
> > > ground water in it, federally subsidized Archer Daniels Midland EtOH
> > > in it, and who knows what else, just isn't good enough. I can
> > > imagine that a company like ARCO might be blatantly lying about what
> > > the octane rating of their product really is.
> > >
> > > I don't know what of those to believe, but there is nothing wrong
> > > with my imagination.
> > >

Re: What kind of gas?
 

You have a special case with CJ though, just as I have a special case. The
original poster asked which gas to use in a TJ with a 6 and an automatic. He
needs regular.



"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F620CB9.6D227B40@sympatico.ca...
> I tested various grades in my CJ7 on a 4600 mile road trip. I have no
> working gas gauge and have to use the odometer so pay 'close' attention
> to mileage. (and keep a full gas container with me) ;-)
>
> In my case, my CJ with a 'tweaked' 258 needs high test gas with no
> alcohol. 100 miles+ extra per tank over regular or 'any' grade of
> alcohol mix. My Cherokee runs best on 'any' type of regular, we take
> that on lots of long driving trips too. It don't care one bit what type
> of regular goes in, it's mileage is pretty consistent. High test lowers
> the mileage and power if it does anything at all.
>
> Gas mileage tells all!
>
> Well... bogging out at 65 mph on an alcohol mix kinda says something
> too... ;-)
>
> Feel free to experiment, I sure did and benefited big time on one Jeep.
> :-)
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >
> > All of this could be true, but it is not in the context of the original
> > question, which came from a guy that just bought a Jeep an dasked what
kind
> > of gas it needs. The correct answer is that it needs Regular.
> >
> > Now, the variation on that answer is that some people might be tempted
to
> > put High Test in for a road trip, and I conceed the point that there
could
> > be some obscure advantage. But, the people that actually test these
kinds of
> > things say that even for a road trip, there is no particular advantage
of
> > using Premium fuel. This brings us back to the first correct answer,
Regular
> > is what it needs.
> >
> > "David Harmon" <source@netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:3f611f81.737138@news.west.earthlink.net...
> > > On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:07:41 -0700 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys,
> > > "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> is alleged to have written:
> > >
> > > >I think that we have tons of data to show that there is no advantage
of
> > > >running high test in a motor that is designed for regular. I can't
image
> > > >what possible advantage there might be on a road trip, but if one
wanted
> > to
> > > >waste money somewhere, they may as well waste it on a road trip. I
assume
> > >
> > > I can imagine several possible advantages.
> > >
> > > I can imagine that an motor that was designed for regular gas that
> > > has 100K+ miles of wear, with some carbon deposits, etc. might knock
> > > a bit more than it was designed to, giving an increased NoX reading
> > > on the smog check. Even with a new EGR valve I read slightly above
> > > average.
> > >
> > > I can imagine that such a motor running regular gas might knock
> > > enough for the computer listening to the knock sensor to retard the
> > > spark enough to reduce milage. I can imagine that the effect of
> > > that might be greater % than the price increment to go to a higher
> > > grade.
> > >
> > > I can imagine that the motor was designed to run on regular gas, but
> > > that the crap sold for regular gas with MTBE to poison the Calif
> > > ground water in it, federally subsidized Archer Daniels Midland EtOH
> > > in it, and who knows what else, just isn't good enough. I can
> > > imagine that a company like ARCO might be blatantly lying about what
> > > the octane rating of their product really is.
> > >
> > > I don't know what of those to believe, but there is nothing wrong
> > > with my imagination.
> > >

Re: What kind of gas?
 

Yup, for sure like I mentioned with my Cherokee.

Mike

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> You have a special case with CJ though, just as I have a special case. The
> original poster asked which gas to use in a TJ with a 6 and an automatic. He
> needs regular.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F620CB9.6D227B40@sympatico.ca...
> > I tested various grades in my CJ7 on a 4600 mile road trip. I have no
> > working gas gauge and have to use the odometer so pay 'close' attention
> > to mileage. (and keep a full gas container with me) ;-)
> >
> > In my case, my CJ with a 'tweaked' 258 needs high test gas with no
> > alcohol. 100 miles+ extra per tank over regular or 'any' grade of
> > alcohol mix. My Cherokee runs best on 'any' type of regular, we take
> > that on lots of long driving trips too. It don't care one bit what type
> > of regular goes in, it's mileage is pretty consistent. High test lowers
> > the mileage and power if it does anything at all.
> >
> > Gas mileage tells all!
> >
> > Well... bogging out at 65 mph on an alcohol mix kinda says something
> > too... ;-)
> >
> > Feel free to experiment, I sure did and benefited big time on one Jeep.
> > :-)
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > >
> > > All of this could be true, but it is not in the context of the original
> > > question, which came from a guy that just bought a Jeep an dasked what
> kind
> > > of gas it needs. The correct answer is that it needs Regular.
> > >
> > > Now, the variation on that answer is that some people might be tempted
> to
> > > put High Test in for a road trip, and I conceed the point that there
> could
> > > be some obscure advantage. But, the people that actually test these
> kinds of
> > > things say that even for a road trip, there is no particular advantage
> of
> > > using Premium fuel. This brings us back to the first correct answer,
> Regular
> > > is what it needs.
> > >
> > > "David Harmon" <source@netcom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3f611f81.737138@news.west.earthlink.net...
> > > > On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:07:41 -0700 in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys,
> > > > "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> is alleged to have written:
> > > >
> > > > >I think that we have tons of data to show that there is no advantage
> of
> > > > >running high test in a motor that is designed for regular. I can't
> image
> > > > >what possible advantage there might be on a road trip, but if one
> wanted
> > > to
> > > > >waste money somewhere, they may as well waste it on a road trip. I
> assume
> > > >
> > > > I can imagine several possible advantages.
> > > >
> > > > I can imagine that an motor that was designed for regular gas that
> > > > has 100K+ miles of wear, with some carbon deposits, etc. might knock
> > > > a bit more than it was designed to, giving an increased NoX reading
> > > > on the smog check. Even with a new EGR valve I read slightly above
> > > > average.
> > > >
> > > > I can imagine that such a motor running regular gas might knock
> > > > enough for the computer listening to the knock sensor to retard the
> > > > spark enough to reduce milage. I can imagine that the effect of
> > > > that might be greater % than the price increment to go to a higher
> > > > grade.
> > > >
> > > > I can imagine that the motor was designed to run on regular gas, but
> > > > that the crap sold for regular gas with MTBE to poison the Calif
> > > > ground water in it, federally subsidized Archer Daniels Midland EtOH
> > > > in it, and who knows what else, just isn't good enough. I can
> > > > imagine that a company like ARCO might be blatantly lying about what
> > > > the octane rating of their product really is.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what of those to believe, but there is nothing wrong
> > > > with my imagination.
> > > >