Re: For gear heads only
08-21-2003, 09:42 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: For gear heads only
L.W. (ßill) ------ III wrote:
> Nitrogen I find is liquid at 60,000 pounds. Here I thought the
> Doctor knew what he was talking about with his liquid Nitrogen
> cauterizing lesions.
http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/~ubws/nitrogen.html
--
DougW
> Nitrogen I find is liquid at 60,000 pounds. Here I thought the
> Doctor knew what he was talking about with his liquid Nitrogen
> cauterizing lesions.
http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/~ubws/nitrogen.html
--
DougW
08-21-2003, 10:00 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: For gear heads only
I hope you didn't try any. The Darwin award come to mind.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DougW wrote:
>
> http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/~ubws/nitrogen.html
>
> --
> DougW
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DougW wrote:
>
> http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/~ubws/nitrogen.html
>
> --
> DougW
08-21-2003, 10:00 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: For gear heads only
I hope you didn't try any. The Darwin award come to mind.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DougW wrote:
>
> http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/~ubws/nitrogen.html
>
> --
> DougW
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DougW wrote:
>
> http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/~ubws/nitrogen.html
>
> --
> DougW
08-21-2003, 10:38 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: For gear heads only
Liquid nitrogen is also liquid at -196 C at standard pressure.
And doesn't need to be cooled to that temperature nor raised
to 60K pounds to become liquid nitrogen. Just compress it a
good one, remove the resulting adiabatic heat, then let it expand
and you'll get some of the nitrogen converted to liquid.
Approximately 8/21/03 18:39, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
> Nitrogen I find is liquid at 60,000 pounds. Here I thought the
> Doctor knew what he was talking about with his liquid Nitrogen
> cauterizing lesions.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Gregg wrote:
>>
>> Nitrogen is not liquid at 2500 psi, Nitrogen must be refrigerated to
>> very low temps and stored in a dewers to be held as a liquid. I
>> beleive it fits the definition of Pneumatic fine, Nitrogen is inert
>> doesnt react badly with other substances.
>>
>> Gregg
08-21-2003, 10:38 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: For gear heads only
Liquid nitrogen is also liquid at -196 C at standard pressure.
And doesn't need to be cooled to that temperature nor raised
to 60K pounds to become liquid nitrogen. Just compress it a
good one, remove the resulting adiabatic heat, then let it expand
and you'll get some of the nitrogen converted to liquid.
Approximately 8/21/03 18:39, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
> Nitrogen I find is liquid at 60,000 pounds. Here I thought the
> Doctor knew what he was talking about with his liquid Nitrogen
> cauterizing lesions.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Gregg wrote:
>>
>> Nitrogen is not liquid at 2500 psi, Nitrogen must be refrigerated to
>> very low temps and stored in a dewers to be held as a liquid. I
>> beleive it fits the definition of Pneumatic fine, Nitrogen is inert
>> doesnt react badly with other substances.
>>
>> Gregg
08-21-2003, 10:46 PM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: For gear heads only
Well, that's one way to characterize it. Another is that for
essentially similar engine construction, it allows you to remove
the valve train as the limiting factor in maximum available
engine speed. As for being more or less obsolete, blaim
Honda and their ability to make buzzy little engines run
at turbine class speeds. As noted before, it *may* have
been Honda [or Yamaha] that has played with total electronic
valve trains. So hopefully now everyone can see evidence
that you do not need valve springs [or if you do, little bitty
low inertia ones can be used] and that solenoid type actuators
work very nicely in both directions. Personally with the
success of Honda and Yamaha, I'd expect diesels to be common
before anyone seriously launches an electronic valve otto
cycle engine. Particularly with the availability of the low
sulfur diesel fuels in the next year or so in the USofA.
Approximately 8/21/03 17:27, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
> Lon, as you see this technology is not new, it's been around since the
> combustion engine. I even as a preteen thought of it on my drag racing
> carrier that never got started due to the ARMY and marriage:
> http://www.----------.com/dragster.jpg I once owned a Ducati back in the
> fifties, I see now why they stopped winning. Anyway I regard it as in
> the same category as the carburetor the oil companies bought, a
> technology that will not work, it's only designed to take investors
> money.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Lon Stowell wrote:
>>
>> Ahh, you don't believe those clever germans and italians can
>> do this, using an idea from the french Delage firm.
>>
>> The merest moment spent with the keyword desmodromic or
>> even Mercedes 300SLR [actually W196R] or Ducati Desmodromic would have
>> yielded pictures, articles, technical articles and such
>> to fill in the gaps. They worked very nicely. At very high
>> speed. Delage's worked, but not sophisticated enough
>> to deal with heat. Mercedes solved it by realizing that
>> the valves are in a system, not standalone, and used
>> the engine itself to close the valve with a bit of
>> slop in the system. Ducati uses a very very light
>> spring that works only for the final few thousandths
>> of an inch, which would resolve the low speed issues
>> that the Mercedes W196 had...and still allows you to
>> operate the entire valve train with minimal finger
>> pressure.
>>
>> Enjoy, some have drawings, some have pictures. Some
>> have engineering analysis.
>>
>> <http://www.desmodromics.co.nz/desmodromic.htm>
>>
>> <http://technografix.hypermart.net/desmodro.htm>
>>
>> <http://speedwaybikes.fortunecity.net/desmo.htm>
>>
>> <http://www.ntnoa.org/engine.htm>
>>
>> <http://www.alphalink.net.au/~petero/springs.html>
>>
>> <http://island.isy.vcu.edu/mthomas/desmodromics_101.html>
>>
>> <http://www.ducati.com/racing/corse_rts.jhtml>
>>
>> <http://diem1.ing.unibo.it/mechmach/rivola/pub26.html>
>>
>> <http://diem1.ing.unibo.it/mechmach/rivola/pub23.html>
>>
>> Approximately 8/21/03 12:39, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
>>
>> > Lon, you're going to have to supply a URL, Pushing a valve up and down
>> > like on a connecting rod does not take into account temperature
>> > expansion and contraction.
>> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >
>> > Lon Stowell wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The Mercedes 300 SLR had no springs whatever. The desmodromic
>> >> valves worked with a cam to open and a cam to close. Ducati
>> >> started using the same valves in the mid 80's. Actually surprised
>> >> with a quick google how many other engines use/used it.
essentially similar engine construction, it allows you to remove
the valve train as the limiting factor in maximum available
engine speed. As for being more or less obsolete, blaim
Honda and their ability to make buzzy little engines run
at turbine class speeds. As noted before, it *may* have
been Honda [or Yamaha] that has played with total electronic
valve trains. So hopefully now everyone can see evidence
that you do not need valve springs [or if you do, little bitty
low inertia ones can be used] and that solenoid type actuators
work very nicely in both directions. Personally with the
success of Honda and Yamaha, I'd expect diesels to be common
before anyone seriously launches an electronic valve otto
cycle engine. Particularly with the availability of the low
sulfur diesel fuels in the next year or so in the USofA.
Approximately 8/21/03 17:27, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
> Lon, as you see this technology is not new, it's been around since the
> combustion engine. I even as a preteen thought of it on my drag racing
> carrier that never got started due to the ARMY and marriage:
> http://www.----------.com/dragster.jpg I once owned a Ducati back in the
> fifties, I see now why they stopped winning. Anyway I regard it as in
> the same category as the carburetor the oil companies bought, a
> technology that will not work, it's only designed to take investors
> money.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Lon Stowell wrote:
>>
>> Ahh, you don't believe those clever germans and italians can
>> do this, using an idea from the french Delage firm.
>>
>> The merest moment spent with the keyword desmodromic or
>> even Mercedes 300SLR [actually W196R] or Ducati Desmodromic would have
>> yielded pictures, articles, technical articles and such
>> to fill in the gaps. They worked very nicely. At very high
>> speed. Delage's worked, but not sophisticated enough
>> to deal with heat. Mercedes solved it by realizing that
>> the valves are in a system, not standalone, and used
>> the engine itself to close the valve with a bit of
>> slop in the system. Ducati uses a very very light
>> spring that works only for the final few thousandths
>> of an inch, which would resolve the low speed issues
>> that the Mercedes W196 had...and still allows you to
>> operate the entire valve train with minimal finger
>> pressure.
>>
>> Enjoy, some have drawings, some have pictures. Some
>> have engineering analysis.
>>
>> <http://www.desmodromics.co.nz/desmodromic.htm>
>>
>> <http://technografix.hypermart.net/desmodro.htm>
>>
>> <http://speedwaybikes.fortunecity.net/desmo.htm>
>>
>> <http://www.ntnoa.org/engine.htm>
>>
>> <http://www.alphalink.net.au/~petero/springs.html>
>>
>> <http://island.isy.vcu.edu/mthomas/desmodromics_101.html>
>>
>> <http://www.ducati.com/racing/corse_rts.jhtml>
>>
>> <http://diem1.ing.unibo.it/mechmach/rivola/pub26.html>
>>
>> <http://diem1.ing.unibo.it/mechmach/rivola/pub23.html>
>>
>> Approximately 8/21/03 12:39, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
>>
>> > Lon, you're going to have to supply a URL, Pushing a valve up and down
>> > like on a connecting rod does not take into account temperature
>> > expansion and contraction.
>> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >
>> > Lon Stowell wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The Mercedes 300 SLR had no springs whatever. The desmodromic
>> >> valves worked with a cam to open and a cam to close. Ducati
>> >> started using the same valves in the mid 80's. Actually surprised
>> >> with a quick google how many other engines use/used it.
08-21-2003, 10:46 PM
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: For gear heads only
Well, that's one way to characterize it. Another is that for
essentially similar engine construction, it allows you to remove
the valve train as the limiting factor in maximum available
engine speed. As for being more or less obsolete, blaim
Honda and their ability to make buzzy little engines run
at turbine class speeds. As noted before, it *may* have
been Honda [or Yamaha] that has played with total electronic
valve trains. So hopefully now everyone can see evidence
that you do not need valve springs [or if you do, little bitty
low inertia ones can be used] and that solenoid type actuators
work very nicely in both directions. Personally with the
success of Honda and Yamaha, I'd expect diesels to be common
before anyone seriously launches an electronic valve otto
cycle engine. Particularly with the availability of the low
sulfur diesel fuels in the next year or so in the USofA.
Approximately 8/21/03 17:27, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
> Lon, as you see this technology is not new, it's been around since the
> combustion engine. I even as a preteen thought of it on my drag racing
> carrier that never got started due to the ARMY and marriage:
> http://www.----------.com/dragster.jpg I once owned a Ducati back in the
> fifties, I see now why they stopped winning. Anyway I regard it as in
> the same category as the carburetor the oil companies bought, a
> technology that will not work, it's only designed to take investors
> money.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Lon Stowell wrote:
>>
>> Ahh, you don't believe those clever germans and italians can
>> do this, using an idea from the french Delage firm.
>>
>> The merest moment spent with the keyword desmodromic or
>> even Mercedes 300SLR [actually W196R] or Ducati Desmodromic would have
>> yielded pictures, articles, technical articles and such
>> to fill in the gaps. They worked very nicely. At very high
>> speed. Delage's worked, but not sophisticated enough
>> to deal with heat. Mercedes solved it by realizing that
>> the valves are in a system, not standalone, and used
>> the engine itself to close the valve with a bit of
>> slop in the system. Ducati uses a very very light
>> spring that works only for the final few thousandths
>> of an inch, which would resolve the low speed issues
>> that the Mercedes W196 had...and still allows you to
>> operate the entire valve train with minimal finger
>> pressure.
>>
>> Enjoy, some have drawings, some have pictures. Some
>> have engineering analysis.
>>
>> <http://www.desmodromics.co.nz/desmodromic.htm>
>>
>> <http://technografix.hypermart.net/desmodro.htm>
>>
>> <http://speedwaybikes.fortunecity.net/desmo.htm>
>>
>> <http://www.ntnoa.org/engine.htm>
>>
>> <http://www.alphalink.net.au/~petero/springs.html>
>>
>> <http://island.isy.vcu.edu/mthomas/desmodromics_101.html>
>>
>> <http://www.ducati.com/racing/corse_rts.jhtml>
>>
>> <http://diem1.ing.unibo.it/mechmach/rivola/pub26.html>
>>
>> <http://diem1.ing.unibo.it/mechmach/rivola/pub23.html>
>>
>> Approximately 8/21/03 12:39, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
>>
>> > Lon, you're going to have to supply a URL, Pushing a valve up and down
>> > like on a connecting rod does not take into account temperature
>> > expansion and contraction.
>> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >
>> > Lon Stowell wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The Mercedes 300 SLR had no springs whatever. The desmodromic
>> >> valves worked with a cam to open and a cam to close. Ducati
>> >> started using the same valves in the mid 80's. Actually surprised
>> >> with a quick google how many other engines use/used it.
essentially similar engine construction, it allows you to remove
the valve train as the limiting factor in maximum available
engine speed. As for being more or less obsolete, blaim
Honda and their ability to make buzzy little engines run
at turbine class speeds. As noted before, it *may* have
been Honda [or Yamaha] that has played with total electronic
valve trains. So hopefully now everyone can see evidence
that you do not need valve springs [or if you do, little bitty
low inertia ones can be used] and that solenoid type actuators
work very nicely in both directions. Personally with the
success of Honda and Yamaha, I'd expect diesels to be common
before anyone seriously launches an electronic valve otto
cycle engine. Particularly with the availability of the low
sulfur diesel fuels in the next year or so in the USofA.
Approximately 8/21/03 17:27, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
> Lon, as you see this technology is not new, it's been around since the
> combustion engine. I even as a preteen thought of it on my drag racing
> carrier that never got started due to the ARMY and marriage:
> http://www.----------.com/dragster.jpg I once owned a Ducati back in the
> fifties, I see now why they stopped winning. Anyway I regard it as in
> the same category as the carburetor the oil companies bought, a
> technology that will not work, it's only designed to take investors
> money.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Lon Stowell wrote:
>>
>> Ahh, you don't believe those clever germans and italians can
>> do this, using an idea from the french Delage firm.
>>
>> The merest moment spent with the keyword desmodromic or
>> even Mercedes 300SLR [actually W196R] or Ducati Desmodromic would have
>> yielded pictures, articles, technical articles and such
>> to fill in the gaps. They worked very nicely. At very high
>> speed. Delage's worked, but not sophisticated enough
>> to deal with heat. Mercedes solved it by realizing that
>> the valves are in a system, not standalone, and used
>> the engine itself to close the valve with a bit of
>> slop in the system. Ducati uses a very very light
>> spring that works only for the final few thousandths
>> of an inch, which would resolve the low speed issues
>> that the Mercedes W196 had...and still allows you to
>> operate the entire valve train with minimal finger
>> pressure.
>>
>> Enjoy, some have drawings, some have pictures. Some
>> have engineering analysis.
>>
>> <http://www.desmodromics.co.nz/desmodromic.htm>
>>
>> <http://technografix.hypermart.net/desmodro.htm>
>>
>> <http://speedwaybikes.fortunecity.net/desmo.htm>
>>
>> <http://www.ntnoa.org/engine.htm>
>>
>> <http://www.alphalink.net.au/~petero/springs.html>
>>
>> <http://island.isy.vcu.edu/mthomas/desmodromics_101.html>
>>
>> <http://www.ducati.com/racing/corse_rts.jhtml>
>>
>> <http://diem1.ing.unibo.it/mechmach/rivola/pub26.html>
>>
>> <http://diem1.ing.unibo.it/mechmach/rivola/pub23.html>
>>
>> Approximately 8/21/03 12:39, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
>>
>> > Lon, you're going to have to supply a URL, Pushing a valve up and down
>> > like on a connecting rod does not take into account temperature
>> > expansion and contraction.
>> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >
>> > Lon Stowell wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The Mercedes 300 SLR had no springs whatever. The desmodromic
>> >> valves worked with a cam to open and a cam to close. Ducati
>> >> started using the same valves in the mid 80's. Actually surprised
>> >> with a quick google how many other engines use/used it.
08-22-2003, 12:09 PM
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: For gear heads only
They just write it will be less efficient for 2007:
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4642
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Rob Munach wrote:
>
> I beleive the Ford Powerstroke is supposed to be camless in 2007.
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4642
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Rob Munach wrote:
>
> I beleive the Ford Powerstroke is supposed to be camless in 2007.
08-22-2003, 12:09 PM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: For gear heads only
They just write it will be less efficient for 2007:
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4642
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Rob Munach wrote:
>
> I beleive the Ford Powerstroke is supposed to be camless in 2007.
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4642
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Rob Munach wrote:
>
> I beleive the Ford Powerstroke is supposed to be camless in 2007.
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