I agree with the flimsy material they used across the frame rails in the back.
I had 1/4" steel cut the same size and shape as what is already back there
welded to the existing one and then have heavy angle bracing on both sides
where the frame rails meet the plate in the back. They use the two holes in
the frame near the back and two holes that go through the "cross member" and
bumper.


Jeff Hendron 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
MatrixOne Support Skyjacker 4" lift, JKS Disconnects
Agilent Technologies Fabtech Front Bumper, Rock Krusher Rear Bumper
Co Springs, Colorado Rock Krusher Rock Rails, Custom Swingout Tire Carrier
(719) 531-4319 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's, Mickey Thompson Classic Lock Wheels
jeff_hendron@agilent.com Bush Whacker Fender Flares, Warn XD9000i Winch

Yamaha WR250ZF

Dave Milne <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
: True - the factory tow bar has substantial 1/4" angle bracing and bolts onto
: the frame in 6 places (two each side of the frame rails, and a bolt
: underneath each side). I wouldn't even give that pathetic piece of sheet
: metal the dignity of the name "cross member".

: Dave Milne, Scotland
: '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

: "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: news:42308FC8.4EA06B5F@sympatico.ca...
:> Have you ever looked at how solid the bumper is bolted on or at what the
:> bumper is bolted on to??? Only a few bolts into a cross member that
:> really isn't very structural for a pull.
:>
:> For towing, you need the hitch bolted onto the frame or major angle
:> bracing to hold the cross member and bumper to the frame tails if you
:> want to have the bumper structurally sound for pulling.
:>
:> They correctly figure you are going to tear it off (stock bumpers with
:> bumper hitches get ripped off all the time in an extraction, it seldom
:> works out of mud) so figure it is safer to have a mud pit missile than a
:> trailer on the highway going it's own way.
:>
:> My $0.02,
:>
:> Mike
:> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
:> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

It's a good idea. The LandRover rear cross member is a massive channel
section effort, which the rear PTO came through. It was a lot more
substantial than most bumpers !

--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Jeff Hendron" <hendron@hpntdpt.cos.agilent.com> wrote in message
news:1110580537.214264@cswreg.cos.agilent.com...
> I agree with the flimsy material they used across the frame rails in the
back.
> I had 1/4" steel cut the same size and shape as what is already back there
> welded to the existing one and then have heavy angle bracing on both sides
> where the frame rails meet the plate in the back. They use the two holes
in
> the frame near the back and two holes that go through the "cross member"
and
> bumper.
>
>
> Jeff Hendron 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
> MatrixOne Support Skyjacker 4" lift, JKS Disconnects
> Agilent Technologies Fabtech Front Bumper, Rock Krusher Rear Bumper
> Co Springs, Colorado Rock Krusher Rock Rails, Custom Swingout Tire
Carrier
> (719) 531-4319 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's, Mickey Thompson
Classic Lock Wheels
> jeff_hendron@agilent.com Bush Whacker Fender Flares, Warn XD9000i Winch
>
> Yamaha WR250ZF
>
> Dave Milne <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> : True - the factory tow bar has substantial 1/4" angle bracing and bolts
onto
> : the frame in 6 places (two each side of the frame rails, and a bolt
> : underneath each side). I wouldn't even give that pathetic piece of sheet
> : metal the dignity of the name "cross member".
>
> : Dave Milne, Scotland
> : '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> : "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : news:42308FC8.4EA06B5F@sympatico.ca...
> :> Have you ever looked at how solid the bumper is bolted on or at what
the
> :> bumper is bolted on to??? Only a few bolts into a cross member that
> :> really isn't very structural for a pull.
> :>
> :> For towing, you need the hitch bolted onto the frame or major angle
> :> bracing to hold the cross member and bumper to the frame tails if you
> :> want to have the bumper structurally sound for pulling.
> :>
> :> They correctly figure you are going to tear it off (stock bumpers with
> :> bumper hitches get ripped off all the time in an extraction, it seldom
> :> works out of mud) so figure it is safer to have a mud pit missile than
a
> :> trailer on the highway going it's own way.
> :>
> :> My $0.02,
> :>
> :> Mike
> :> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> :> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

It's a good idea. The LandRover rear cross member is a massive channel
section effort, which the rear PTO came through. It was a lot more
substantial than most bumpers !

--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Jeff Hendron" <hendron@hpntdpt.cos.agilent.com> wrote in message
news:1110580537.214264@cswreg.cos.agilent.com...
> I agree with the flimsy material they used across the frame rails in the
back.
> I had 1/4" steel cut the same size and shape as what is already back there
> welded to the existing one and then have heavy angle bracing on both sides
> where the frame rails meet the plate in the back. They use the two holes
in
> the frame near the back and two holes that go through the "cross member"
and
> bumper.
>
>
> Jeff Hendron 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
> MatrixOne Support Skyjacker 4" lift, JKS Disconnects
> Agilent Technologies Fabtech Front Bumper, Rock Krusher Rear Bumper
> Co Springs, Colorado Rock Krusher Rock Rails, Custom Swingout Tire
Carrier
> (719) 531-4319 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's, Mickey Thompson
Classic Lock Wheels
> jeff_hendron@agilent.com Bush Whacker Fender Flares, Warn XD9000i Winch
>
> Yamaha WR250ZF
>
> Dave Milne <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> : True - the factory tow bar has substantial 1/4" angle bracing and bolts
onto
> : the frame in 6 places (two each side of the frame rails, and a bolt
> : underneath each side). I wouldn't even give that pathetic piece of sheet
> : metal the dignity of the name "cross member".
>
> : Dave Milne, Scotland
> : '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> : "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : news:42308FC8.4EA06B5F@sympatico.ca...
> :> Have you ever looked at how solid the bumper is bolted on or at what
the
> :> bumper is bolted on to??? Only a few bolts into a cross member that
> :> really isn't very structural for a pull.
> :>
> :> For towing, you need the hitch bolted onto the frame or major angle
> :> bracing to hold the cross member and bumper to the frame tails if you
> :> want to have the bumper structurally sound for pulling.
> :>
> :> They correctly figure you are going to tear it off (stock bumpers with
> :> bumper hitches get ripped off all the time in an extraction, it seldom
> :> works out of mud) so figure it is safer to have a mud pit missile than
a
> :> trailer on the highway going it's own way.
> :>
> :> My $0.02,
> :>
> :> Mike
> :> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> :> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

It's a good idea. The LandRover rear cross member is a massive channel
section effort, which the rear PTO came through. It was a lot more
substantial than most bumpers !

--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Jeff Hendron" <hendron@hpntdpt.cos.agilent.com> wrote in message
news:1110580537.214264@cswreg.cos.agilent.com...
> I agree with the flimsy material they used across the frame rails in the
back.
> I had 1/4" steel cut the same size and shape as what is already back there
> welded to the existing one and then have heavy angle bracing on both sides
> where the frame rails meet the plate in the back. They use the two holes
in
> the frame near the back and two holes that go through the "cross member"
and
> bumper.
>
>
> Jeff Hendron 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
> MatrixOne Support Skyjacker 4" lift, JKS Disconnects
> Agilent Technologies Fabtech Front Bumper, Rock Krusher Rear Bumper
> Co Springs, Colorado Rock Krusher Rock Rails, Custom Swingout Tire
Carrier
> (719) 531-4319 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's, Mickey Thompson
Classic Lock Wheels
> jeff_hendron@agilent.com Bush Whacker Fender Flares, Warn XD9000i Winch
>
> Yamaha WR250ZF
>
> Dave Milne <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> : True - the factory tow bar has substantial 1/4" angle bracing and bolts
onto
> : the frame in 6 places (two each side of the frame rails, and a bolt
> : underneath each side). I wouldn't even give that pathetic piece of sheet
> : metal the dignity of the name "cross member".
>
> : Dave Milne, Scotland
> : '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> : "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> : news:42308FC8.4EA06B5F@sympatico.ca...
> :> Have you ever looked at how solid the bumper is bolted on or at what
the
> :> bumper is bolted on to??? Only a few bolts into a cross member that
> :> really isn't very structural for a pull.
> :>
> :> For towing, you need the hitch bolted onto the frame or major angle
> :> bracing to hold the cross member and bumper to the frame tails if you
> :> want to have the bumper structurally sound for pulling.
> :>
> :> They correctly figure you are going to tear it off (stock bumpers with
> :> bumper hitches get ripped off all the time in an extraction, it seldom
> :> works out of mud) so figure it is safer to have a mud pit missile than
a
> :> trailer on the highway going it's own way.
> :>
> :> My $0.02,
> :>
> :> Mike
> :> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> :> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

I have to replace mine due to a pull with my bumper hitch and a strap
that turned out to be a tow strap, not a ****** strap so it came up
hard. Yanked the freaking cross member loose and it was only a YJ stuck
in a snow bank! Got bailing wire holding it on right now......

I am going structurally strong with the cross member then I can add my
spare tire carrier to it.

Mike

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> It's a good idea. The LandRover rear cross member is a massive channel
> section effort, which the rear PTO came through. It was a lot more
> substantial than most bumpers !
>
> --
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> "Jeff Hendron" <hendron@hpntdpt.cos.agilent.com> wrote in message
> news:1110580537.214264@cswreg.cos.agilent.com...
> > I agree with the flimsy material they used across the frame rails in the
> back.
> > I had 1/4" steel cut the same size and shape as what is already back there
> > welded to the existing one and then have heavy angle bracing on both sides
> > where the frame rails meet the plate in the back. They use the two holes
> in
> > the frame near the back and two holes that go through the "cross member"
> and
> > bumper.
> >
> >
> > Jeff Hendron 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
> > MatrixOne Support Skyjacker 4" lift, JKS Disconnects
> > Agilent Technologies Fabtech Front Bumper, Rock Krusher Rear Bumper
> > Co Springs, Colorado Rock Krusher Rock Rails, Custom Swingout Tire
> Carrier
> > (719) 531-4319 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's, Mickey Thompson
> Classic Lock Wheels
> > jeff_hendron@agilent.com Bush Whacker Fender Flares, Warn XD9000i Winch
> >
> > Yamaha WR250ZF
> >
> > Dave Milne <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> > : True - the factory tow bar has substantial 1/4" angle bracing and bolts
> onto
> > : the frame in 6 places (two each side of the frame rails, and a bolt
> > : underneath each side). I wouldn't even give that pathetic piece of sheet
> > : metal the dignity of the name "cross member".
> >
> > : Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >
> > : "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : news:42308FC8.4EA06B5F@sympatico.ca...
> > :> Have you ever looked at how solid the bumper is bolted on or at what
> the
> > :> bumper is bolted on to??? Only a few bolts into a cross member that
> > :> really isn't very structural for a pull.
> > :>
> > :> For towing, you need the hitch bolted onto the frame or major angle
> > :> bracing to hold the cross member and bumper to the frame tails if you
> > :> want to have the bumper structurally sound for pulling.
> > :>
> > :> They correctly figure you are going to tear it off (stock bumpers with
> > :> bumper hitches get ripped off all the time in an extraction, it seldom
> > :> works out of mud) so figure it is safer to have a mud pit missile than
> a
> > :> trailer on the highway going it's own way.
> > :>
> > :> My $0.02,
> > :>
> > :> Mike
> > :> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > :> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

I have to replace mine due to a pull with my bumper hitch and a strap
that turned out to be a tow strap, not a ****** strap so it came up
hard. Yanked the freaking cross member loose and it was only a YJ stuck
in a snow bank! Got bailing wire holding it on right now......

I am going structurally strong with the cross member then I can add my
spare tire carrier to it.

Mike

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> It's a good idea. The LandRover rear cross member is a massive channel
> section effort, which the rear PTO came through. It was a lot more
> substantial than most bumpers !
>
> --
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> "Jeff Hendron" <hendron@hpntdpt.cos.agilent.com> wrote in message
> news:1110580537.214264@cswreg.cos.agilent.com...
> > I agree with the flimsy material they used across the frame rails in the
> back.
> > I had 1/4" steel cut the same size and shape as what is already back there
> > welded to the existing one and then have heavy angle bracing on both sides
> > where the frame rails meet the plate in the back. They use the two holes
> in
> > the frame near the back and two holes that go through the "cross member"
> and
> > bumper.
> >
> >
> > Jeff Hendron 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
> > MatrixOne Support Skyjacker 4" lift, JKS Disconnects
> > Agilent Technologies Fabtech Front Bumper, Rock Krusher Rear Bumper
> > Co Springs, Colorado Rock Krusher Rock Rails, Custom Swingout Tire
> Carrier
> > (719) 531-4319 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's, Mickey Thompson
> Classic Lock Wheels
> > jeff_hendron@agilent.com Bush Whacker Fender Flares, Warn XD9000i Winch
> >
> > Yamaha WR250ZF
> >
> > Dave Milne <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> > : True - the factory tow bar has substantial 1/4" angle bracing and bolts
> onto
> > : the frame in 6 places (two each side of the frame rails, and a bolt
> > : underneath each side). I wouldn't even give that pathetic piece of sheet
> > : metal the dignity of the name "cross member".
> >
> > : Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >
> > : "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : news:42308FC8.4EA06B5F@sympatico.ca...
> > :> Have you ever looked at how solid the bumper is bolted on or at what
> the
> > :> bumper is bolted on to??? Only a few bolts into a cross member that
> > :> really isn't very structural for a pull.
> > :>
> > :> For towing, you need the hitch bolted onto the frame or major angle
> > :> bracing to hold the cross member and bumper to the frame tails if you
> > :> want to have the bumper structurally sound for pulling.
> > :>
> > :> They correctly figure you are going to tear it off (stock bumpers with
> > :> bumper hitches get ripped off all the time in an extraction, it seldom
> > :> works out of mud) so figure it is safer to have a mud pit missile than
> a
> > :> trailer on the highway going it's own way.
> > :>
> > :> My $0.02,
> > :>
> > :> Mike
> > :> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > :> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

I have to replace mine due to a pull with my bumper hitch and a strap
that turned out to be a tow strap, not a ****** strap so it came up
hard. Yanked the freaking cross member loose and it was only a YJ stuck
in a snow bank! Got bailing wire holding it on right now......

I am going structurally strong with the cross member then I can add my
spare tire carrier to it.

Mike

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> It's a good idea. The LandRover rear cross member is a massive channel
> section effort, which the rear PTO came through. It was a lot more
> substantial than most bumpers !
>
> --
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> "Jeff Hendron" <hendron@hpntdpt.cos.agilent.com> wrote in message
> news:1110580537.214264@cswreg.cos.agilent.com...
> > I agree with the flimsy material they used across the frame rails in the
> back.
> > I had 1/4" steel cut the same size and shape as what is already back there
> > welded to the existing one and then have heavy angle bracing on both sides
> > where the frame rails meet the plate in the back. They use the two holes
> in
> > the frame near the back and two holes that go through the "cross member"
> and
> > bumper.
> >
> >
> > Jeff Hendron 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
> > MatrixOne Support Skyjacker 4" lift, JKS Disconnects
> > Agilent Technologies Fabtech Front Bumper, Rock Krusher Rear Bumper
> > Co Springs, Colorado Rock Krusher Rock Rails, Custom Swingout Tire
> Carrier
> > (719) 531-4319 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's, Mickey Thompson
> Classic Lock Wheels
> > jeff_hendron@agilent.com Bush Whacker Fender Flares, Warn XD9000i Winch
> >
> > Yamaha WR250ZF
> >
> > Dave Milne <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> > : True - the factory tow bar has substantial 1/4" angle bracing and bolts
> onto
> > : the frame in 6 places (two each side of the frame rails, and a bolt
> > : underneath each side). I wouldn't even give that pathetic piece of sheet
> > : metal the dignity of the name "cross member".
> >
> > : Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >
> > : "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > : news:42308FC8.4EA06B5F@sympatico.ca...
> > :> Have you ever looked at how solid the bumper is bolted on or at what
> the
> > :> bumper is bolted on to??? Only a few bolts into a cross member that
> > :> really isn't very structural for a pull.
> > :>
> > :> For towing, you need the hitch bolted onto the frame or major angle
> > :> bracing to hold the cross member and bumper to the frame tails if you
> > :> want to have the bumper structurally sound for pulling.
> > :>
> > :> They correctly figure you are going to tear it off (stock bumpers with
> > :> bumper hitches get ripped off all the time in an extraction, it seldom
> > :> works out of mud) so figure it is safer to have a mud pit missile than
> a
> > :> trailer on the highway going it's own way.
> > :>
> > :> My $0.02,
> > :>
> > :> Mike
> > :> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > :> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

 

Real Jeeps triangulate their frame for strength:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ationChart.gif
;-) Of course they were made to work, not just go to the mall:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ersatility.JPG
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I have to replace mine due to a pull with my bumper hitch and a strap
> that turned out to be a tow strap, not a ****** strap so it came up
> hard. Yanked the freaking cross member loose and it was only a YJ stuck
> in a snow bank! Got bailing wire holding it on right now......
>
> I am going structurally strong with the cross member then I can add my
> spare tire carrier to it.
>
> Mike

 

Real Jeeps triangulate their frame for strength:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ationChart.gif
;-) Of course they were made to work, not just go to the mall:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ersatility.JPG
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I have to replace mine due to a pull with my bumper hitch and a strap
> that turned out to be a tow strap, not a ****** strap so it came up
> hard. Yanked the freaking cross member loose and it was only a YJ stuck
> in a snow bank! Got bailing wire holding it on right now......
>
> I am going structurally strong with the cross member then I can add my
> spare tire carrier to it.
>
> Mike

 

Real Jeeps triangulate their frame for strength:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ationChart.gif
;-) Of course they were made to work, not just go to the mall:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ersatility.JPG
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I have to replace mine due to a pull with my bumper hitch and a strap
> that turned out to be a tow strap, not a ****** strap so it came up
> hard. Yanked the freaking cross member loose and it was only a YJ stuck
> in a snow bank! Got bailing wire holding it on right now......
>
> I am going structurally strong with the cross member then I can add my
> spare tire carrier to it.
>
> Mike