OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
Jeepers wrote:
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
It will work. At my cabin (no electricity) we have a 500 gal drum on a
30 foot platform. It fills and drains through the same 1" hose.
No problems at all.
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
It will work. At my cabin (no electricity) we have a 500 gal drum on a
30 foot platform. It fills and drains through the same 1" hose.
No problems at all.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
Jeepers wrote:
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
It will work. At my cabin (no electricity) we have a 500 gal drum on a
30 foot platform. It fills and drains through the same 1" hose.
No problems at all.
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
It will work. At my cabin (no electricity) we have a 500 gal drum on a
30 foot platform. It fills and drains through the same 1" hose.
No problems at all.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
EDDIE O'CONNOR wrote:
> The same amount of pressure. From the bottom hole it has to lift it's
> diameter in water, and from the top it has to lift it's own volume of water
> in the hose up to the top so it can just gravity drop into the barrel. Same
> amount of energy required by the pump.
Well, not quite. Moving the LAST slug of water requires the same amount
of energy, but until the barrel is full, the water-column to the top bung
is higher than the water colum to the botom bung and up the inside of the
barrel. so the total energy used is LOWER if you pump through the botom
hole.
--Goedjn
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
EDDIE O'CONNOR wrote:
> The same amount of pressure. From the bottom hole it has to lift it's
> diameter in water, and from the top it has to lift it's own volume of water
> in the hose up to the top so it can just gravity drop into the barrel. Same
> amount of energy required by the pump.
Well, not quite. Moving the LAST slug of water requires the same amount
of energy, but until the barrel is full, the water-column to the top bung
is higher than the water colum to the botom bung and up the inside of the
barrel. so the total energy used is LOWER if you pump through the botom
hole.
--Goedjn
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
EDDIE O'CONNOR wrote:
> The same amount of pressure. From the bottom hole it has to lift it's
> diameter in water, and from the top it has to lift it's own volume of water
> in the hose up to the top so it can just gravity drop into the barrel. Same
> amount of energy required by the pump.
Well, not quite. Moving the LAST slug of water requires the same amount
of energy, but until the barrel is full, the water-column to the top bung
is higher than the water colum to the botom bung and up the inside of the
barrel. so the total energy used is LOWER if you pump through the botom
hole.
--Goedjn
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
You can fill it from the bottom bung, top bung, or whatever. The
pressure will be identical no matter where you fill it, until you start
to raise the water above the level of the water in the barrel. You can
get rid of that effect by running the hose over the lip of the barrel,
and down to the bottom. As long as there is no air in the hose, the
pressure is solely determined by the level of the water in the barrel.
If you want to fill the barrel through the bottom bung, you will want to
have a valve to keep the water from running out through the pump and
back into the barrel that's in the truck.
Ray Drouillard
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide
water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the
top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There
are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
pressure will be identical no matter where you fill it, until you start
to raise the water above the level of the water in the barrel. You can
get rid of that effect by running the hose over the lip of the barrel,
and down to the bottom. As long as there is no air in the hose, the
pressure is solely determined by the level of the water in the barrel.
If you want to fill the barrel through the bottom bung, you will want to
have a valve to keep the water from running out through the pump and
back into the barrel that's in the truck.
Ray Drouillard
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide
water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the
top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There
are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
You can fill it from the bottom bung, top bung, or whatever. The
pressure will be identical no matter where you fill it, until you start
to raise the water above the level of the water in the barrel. You can
get rid of that effect by running the hose over the lip of the barrel,
and down to the bottom. As long as there is no air in the hose, the
pressure is solely determined by the level of the water in the barrel.
If you want to fill the barrel through the bottom bung, you will want to
have a valve to keep the water from running out through the pump and
back into the barrel that's in the truck.
Ray Drouillard
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide
water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the
top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There
are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
pressure will be identical no matter where you fill it, until you start
to raise the water above the level of the water in the barrel. You can
get rid of that effect by running the hose over the lip of the barrel,
and down to the bottom. As long as there is no air in the hose, the
pressure is solely determined by the level of the water in the barrel.
If you want to fill the barrel through the bottom bung, you will want to
have a valve to keep the water from running out through the pump and
back into the barrel that's in the truck.
Ray Drouillard
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide
water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the
top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There
are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
You can fill it from the bottom bung, top bung, or whatever. The
pressure will be identical no matter where you fill it, until you start
to raise the water above the level of the water in the barrel. You can
get rid of that effect by running the hose over the lip of the barrel,
and down to the bottom. As long as there is no air in the hose, the
pressure is solely determined by the level of the water in the barrel.
If you want to fill the barrel through the bottom bung, you will want to
have a valve to keep the water from running out through the pump and
back into the barrel that's in the truck.
Ray Drouillard
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide
water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the
top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There
are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
pressure will be identical no matter where you fill it, until you start
to raise the water above the level of the water in the barrel. You can
get rid of that effect by running the hose over the lip of the barrel,
and down to the bottom. As long as there is no air in the hose, the
pressure is solely determined by the level of the water in the barrel.
If you want to fill the barrel through the bottom bung, you will want to
have a valve to keep the water from running out through the pump and
back into the barrel that's in the truck.
Ray Drouillard
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide
water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the
top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There
are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
In article <30jsckF3182ubU1@uni-berlin.de>,
"Ray Drouillard" <cosmicpam2@comcast.net> wrote:
> you will want to have a valve to keep the water from running out through the pump and
> back into the barrel that's in the truck.
> Ray Drouillard
Same for the top fill hole hose? Won't want to run backwards?
I'm gonna use the top fill hole anyway so I don't have to disconnect the
drain hose from the cabin.
I lost the physics argument, but I had the right idea.
--
Member AAAAAAAA
American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
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"Ray Drouillard" <cosmicpam2@comcast.net> wrote:
> you will want to have a valve to keep the water from running out through the pump and
> back into the barrel that's in the truck.
> Ray Drouillard
Same for the top fill hole hose? Won't want to run backwards?
I'm gonna use the top fill hole anyway so I don't have to disconnect the
drain hose from the cabin.
I lost the physics argument, but I had the right idea.
--
Member AAAAAAAA
American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
In article <30jsckF3182ubU1@uni-berlin.de>,
"Ray Drouillard" <cosmicpam2@comcast.net> wrote:
> you will want to have a valve to keep the water from running out through the pump and
> back into the barrel that's in the truck.
> Ray Drouillard
Same for the top fill hole hose? Won't want to run backwards?
I'm gonna use the top fill hole anyway so I don't have to disconnect the
drain hose from the cabin.
I lost the physics argument, but I had the right idea.
--
Member AAAAAAAA
American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
"Ray Drouillard" <cosmicpam2@comcast.net> wrote:
> you will want to have a valve to keep the water from running out through the pump and
> back into the barrel that's in the truck.
> Ray Drouillard
Same for the top fill hole hose? Won't want to run backwards?
I'm gonna use the top fill hole anyway so I don't have to disconnect the
drain hose from the cabin.
I lost the physics argument, but I had the right idea.
--
Member AAAAAAAA
American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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