OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
 

O.k. got an argument to solve.

Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
in deer camp).

It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
side. One for vent, one for fill.

There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
is the source of water to fill the high barrel.

The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.

Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?

--
Member AAAAAAAA
American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
 

The same amount of pressure. From the bottom hole it has to lift it's
diameter in water, and from the top it has to lift it's own volume of water
in the hose up to the top so it can just gravity drop into the barrel. Same
amount of energy required by the pump.


"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
>
> --
> Member AAAAAAAA
> American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
 

The same amount of pressure. From the bottom hole it has to lift it's
diameter in water, and from the top it has to lift it's own volume of water
in the hose up to the top so it can just gravity drop into the barrel. Same
amount of energy required by the pump.


"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
>
> --
> Member AAAAAAAA
> American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
 

The same amount of pressure. From the bottom hole it has to lift it's
diameter in water, and from the top it has to lift it's own volume of water
in the hose up to the top so it can just gravity drop into the barrel. Same
amount of energy required by the pump.


"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
>
> --
> Member AAAAAAAA
> American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
 

a bit easier to pump to the bottom bung, until the water level in the raised
barrel rises. The fact that the hose has less volume of water than the
barrel is irrelevant - it is the height you are pumping the water that
matters.

but pumping to the top bung might prevent a problem if the hose comes loose.

"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
>
> --
> Member AAAAAAAA
> American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
 

a bit easier to pump to the bottom bung, until the water level in the raised
barrel rises. The fact that the hose has less volume of water than the
barrel is irrelevant - it is the height you are pumping the water that
matters.

but pumping to the top bung might prevent a problem if the hose comes loose.

"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
>
> --
> Member AAAAAAAA
> American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
 

a bit easier to pump to the bottom bung, until the water level in the raised
barrel rises. The fact that the hose has less volume of water than the
barrel is irrelevant - it is the height you are pumping the water that
matters.

but pumping to the top bung might prevent a problem if the hose comes loose.

"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
>
> --
> Member AAAAAAAA
> American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

Re: OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
 

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:11:09 UTC Jeepers <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net>
wrote:

> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?

That neglects the fact you're gonna get your ass wet when you go to
disconnect the bottom hose, doesn't it? Where I hunted getting wet
was not a pleasant prospect. In answer to the physics question,
pressure is determined by the height of the water column where
diameter (above some really small minimum) is irrelevant, so you
actually need slightly less pressure to fill from the bottom if the
top holes are on top of the tank rather than the sides.

--
Will Honea

Re: OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
 

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:11:09 UTC Jeepers <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net>
wrote:

> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?

That neglects the fact you're gonna get your ass wet when you go to
disconnect the bottom hose, doesn't it? Where I hunted getting wet
was not a pleasant prospect. In answer to the physics question,
pressure is determined by the height of the water column where
diameter (above some really small minimum) is irrelevant, so you
actually need slightly less pressure to fill from the bottom if the
top holes are on top of the tank rather than the sides.

--
Will Honea

Re: OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
 

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:11:09 UTC Jeepers <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net>
wrote:

> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?

That neglects the fact you're gonna get your ass wet when you go to
disconnect the bottom hose, doesn't it? Where I hunted getting wet
was not a pleasant prospect. In answer to the physics question,
pressure is determined by the height of the water column where
diameter (above some really small minimum) is irrelevant, so you
actually need slightly less pressure to fill from the bottom if the
top holes are on top of the tank rather than the sides.

--
Will Honea