No the size or the volume of the barrel is not part of the column. The
barrel could also be a lake, or any container. The only consideration is the
height difference between the top water level and the pump. The height
refers only to the water column which is a 1 square inch imaginary column to
the top of the water level at the top barrel, or the top of the lake, or
wherever the top end of the hose ends up.

Let's say the hose goes from the pump, up 40 feet to the top of the barrel.
Then the water pressure would be 40 x 0.43 psi = 17.2 psi. Now if the hose
makes a 180 degree turn at the top and goes down into the barrel 3 feet,
then after you pump the initial water to the top of the hose, the 3 feet of
siphon action of the water in the hose will cause the pressure to be 37 x
0.43 = 15.91 psi.

If the water level in the top barrel rises above the end of the hose (which
is at 37 feet) the pressure will increase according to the top of the water
level. Same formula: about 0.43 psi for every foot of height.

Another way to visualize water pressure: A diver at 100 feet deep in the
ocean experiences the exact same water pressure as a diver 100 feet deep in
a small swimming pool (if there were such a thing.) The volume of water does
not matter. The only thing that matters is the height of the imaginary 1
square inch water column.

Tom

"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-6BB8BB.12550424112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...

> Isn't part of the column the barrel? The barrel has a bigger column in
> it's part, than the hose. So the weight of the water column is GREATLY
> larger than the one in the hose going to the top. Less water - less
> weight, right?
>
> --
> Member AAAAAAAA
> American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

 

run a long length of hose that comes up to the level you want to fill....Now
the trick is: you'll need to have a length of hose running relatively
straight (slight downgrade). This length of sloping hose should probably be
at least twice the length of the vertical portion of the hose.

So....With the barrel on the ground....run some hose up to the 20foot level
and then have 50feet of sloping hose.

The idea here is that once you have the hose filled with water....the longer
length of horizontal hose will run in to the barrel and will draw water up
from the barrel. The trick is to get the hose filled with water (attach
pump at bottom and once it is full, let her go on her own!

This is the same as taking a 5ft piece of hose and putting the whole thing
in your above ground swimming pool (on top of the cover with all the
rainwater sitting on it)....once the hose is full you just hang one end off
the end of the pool and gravity will help you draw the water out.

If those hippie romans can figure it out....so can us rednecks! ha!



"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
>
> --
> Member AAAAAAAA
> American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

 

run a long length of hose that comes up to the level you want to fill....Now
the trick is: you'll need to have a length of hose running relatively
straight (slight downgrade). This length of sloping hose should probably be
at least twice the length of the vertical portion of the hose.

So....With the barrel on the ground....run some hose up to the 20foot level
and then have 50feet of sloping hose.

The idea here is that once you have the hose filled with water....the longer
length of horizontal hose will run in to the barrel and will draw water up
from the barrel. The trick is to get the hose filled with water (attach
pump at bottom and once it is full, let her go on her own!

This is the same as taking a 5ft piece of hose and putting the whole thing
in your above ground swimming pool (on top of the cover with all the
rainwater sitting on it)....once the hose is full you just hang one end off
the end of the pool and gravity will help you draw the water out.

If those hippie romans can figure it out....so can us rednecks! ha!



"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
>
> --
> Member AAAAAAAA
> American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

 

run a long length of hose that comes up to the level you want to fill....Now
the trick is: you'll need to have a length of hose running relatively
straight (slight downgrade). This length of sloping hose should probably be
at least twice the length of the vertical portion of the hose.

So....With the barrel on the ground....run some hose up to the 20foot level
and then have 50feet of sloping hose.

The idea here is that once you have the hose filled with water....the longer
length of horizontal hose will run in to the barrel and will draw water up
from the barrel. The trick is to get the hose filled with water (attach
pump at bottom and once it is full, let her go on her own!

This is the same as taking a 5ft piece of hose and putting the whole thing
in your above ground swimming pool (on top of the cover with all the
rainwater sitting on it)....once the hose is full you just hang one end off
the end of the pool and gravity will help you draw the water out.

If those hippie romans can figure it out....so can us rednecks! ha!



"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-F31228.08110724112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> O.k. got an argument to solve.
>
> Have a 55 gal. barrel, on a 8 to 10 foot tall platform (to provide water
> in deer camp).
>
> It has three bungs. One on the bottom side (drain/flow). Two on the top
> side. One for vent, one for fill.
>
> There is another barrel in the bed of a pickup, full of water. There are
> two pumps, one hand diaphragm type or one typical 12v bilge type. This
> is the source of water to fill the high barrel.
>
> The argument is that the water can be just as easily pumped into the
> barrel through the drain bung, from below, as it could be through the
> top fill bung. There is an assertion that the pressure inside the hose
> is greater in the lower fill hose than in the upper fill hose, due to
> the weight of the water in the barrel as it fills.
>
> Which, if any, fill location would require more or less force to fill
> this barrel: the top hole or the bottom hole?
>
> --
> Member AAAAAAAA
> American Association Against Acronym Abuse And Also Ambiguity.
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

 

Nope, that will not work. A siphon will not draw water up from a lower
barrel. A siphon (hose) will expel water only from the lower of the two hose
ends. Does not matter if the hose is 10 feet long or 10,000 feet long. For
a hose that is completely filled with water the only thing that matters is
the height difference between the two ends of the hose. The lower end (no
matter how long the hose) will expel the water.

Tom

"SteveBrady" <steve.brady@(remove this)rogers.com> wrote in message
news:7YCdnSEpAOf4ojjcRVn-gQ@rogers.com...
> run a long length of hose that comes up to the level you want to
fill....Now
> the trick is: you'll need to have a length of hose running relatively
> straight (slight downgrade). This length of sloping hose should probably
be
> at least twice the length of the vertical portion of the hose.
>
> So....With the barrel on the ground....run some hose up to the 20foot
level
> and then have 50feet of sloping hose.
>
> The idea here is that once you have the hose filled with water....the
longer
> length of horizontal hose will run in to the barrel and will draw water up
> from the barrel. The trick is to get the hose filled with water (attach
> pump at bottom and once it is full, let her go on her own!
>
> This is the same as taking a 5ft piece of hose and putting the whole thing
> in your above ground swimming pool (on top of the cover with all the
> rainwater sitting on it)....once the hose is full you just hang one end
off
> the end of the pool and gravity will help you draw the water out.
>

 

Nope, that will not work. A siphon will not draw water up from a lower
barrel. A siphon (hose) will expel water only from the lower of the two hose
ends. Does not matter if the hose is 10 feet long or 10,000 feet long. For
a hose that is completely filled with water the only thing that matters is
the height difference between the two ends of the hose. The lower end (no
matter how long the hose) will expel the water.

Tom

"SteveBrady" <steve.brady@(remove this)rogers.com> wrote in message
news:7YCdnSEpAOf4ojjcRVn-gQ@rogers.com...
> run a long length of hose that comes up to the level you want to
fill....Now
> the trick is: you'll need to have a length of hose running relatively
> straight (slight downgrade). This length of sloping hose should probably
be
> at least twice the length of the vertical portion of the hose.
>
> So....With the barrel on the ground....run some hose up to the 20foot
level
> and then have 50feet of sloping hose.
>
> The idea here is that once you have the hose filled with water....the
longer
> length of horizontal hose will run in to the barrel and will draw water up
> from the barrel. The trick is to get the hose filled with water (attach
> pump at bottom and once it is full, let her go on her own!
>
> This is the same as taking a 5ft piece of hose and putting the whole thing
> in your above ground swimming pool (on top of the cover with all the
> rainwater sitting on it)....once the hose is full you just hang one end
off
> the end of the pool and gravity will help you draw the water out.
>

 

Nope, that will not work. A siphon will not draw water up from a lower
barrel. A siphon (hose) will expel water only from the lower of the two hose
ends. Does not matter if the hose is 10 feet long or 10,000 feet long. For
a hose that is completely filled with water the only thing that matters is
the height difference between the two ends of the hose. The lower end (no
matter how long the hose) will expel the water.

Tom

"SteveBrady" <steve.brady@(remove this)rogers.com> wrote in message
news:7YCdnSEpAOf4ojjcRVn-gQ@rogers.com...
> run a long length of hose that comes up to the level you want to
fill....Now
> the trick is: you'll need to have a length of hose running relatively
> straight (slight downgrade). This length of sloping hose should probably
be
> at least twice the length of the vertical portion of the hose.
>
> So....With the barrel on the ground....run some hose up to the 20foot
level
> and then have 50feet of sloping hose.
>
> The idea here is that once you have the hose filled with water....the
longer
> length of horizontal hose will run in to the barrel and will draw water up
> from the barrel. The trick is to get the hose filled with water (attach
> pump at bottom and once it is full, let her go on her own!
>
> This is the same as taking a 5ft piece of hose and putting the whole thing
> in your above ground swimming pool (on top of the cover with all the
> rainwater sitting on it)....once the hose is full you just hang one end
off
> the end of the pool and gravity will help you draw the water out.
>

 

In article <41A51B69.B631872C@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> In article <41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain
> <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> >LOL!
>> >
>> >Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
>> >
>> >The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
>> >the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
>> >the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
>> >
>> Nonsense.
>
>Well you know, everyone else has explained why I was wrong, but you are
>wrong here with that snip quote.
>
>That is 'not' nonsense.

Yes, it *is* nonsense, in the context of the situation described by the OP.
He's talking about pumping water into a 55-gallon drum, elevated eight to ten
feet above the ground. Now a standard 55-gal drum is about 3 feet tall,
which, incidentally, means that the maximum pressure that can be exerted by
the water in the tank is that of a 3-foot water column, and the effort to
overcome that pressure is exactly equivalent to that required to lift water
three feet. With me so far? The OP evidently has a pump that can lift water as
high as the top of the tank (thus approx 11 to 13 feet above ground). Any pump
that can lift water 11 to 13 feet, can certainly lift it three feet.

Put another way: if the pump develops enough pressure to pump water up to the
top of the tank, then it can pump water into the bottom of the tank.

> If there is 100 psi in the line and the pump
>can only pump 50, it will flow backward.

Well, obviously... but where's the 100 psi gonna come from, in a water column
that's only three feet tall? I make that out at around one-point-two psi.

 

In article <41A51B69.B631872C@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> In article <41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain
> <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> >LOL!
>> >
>> >Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
>> >
>> >The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
>> >the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
>> >the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
>> >
>> Nonsense.
>
>Well you know, everyone else has explained why I was wrong, but you are
>wrong here with that snip quote.
>
>That is 'not' nonsense.

Yes, it *is* nonsense, in the context of the situation described by the OP.
He's talking about pumping water into a 55-gallon drum, elevated eight to ten
feet above the ground. Now a standard 55-gal drum is about 3 feet tall,
which, incidentally, means that the maximum pressure that can be exerted by
the water in the tank is that of a 3-foot water column, and the effort to
overcome that pressure is exactly equivalent to that required to lift water
three feet. With me so far? The OP evidently has a pump that can lift water as
high as the top of the tank (thus approx 11 to 13 feet above ground). Any pump
that can lift water 11 to 13 feet, can certainly lift it three feet.

Put another way: if the pump develops enough pressure to pump water up to the
top of the tank, then it can pump water into the bottom of the tank.

> If there is 100 psi in the line and the pump
>can only pump 50, it will flow backward.

Well, obviously... but where's the 100 psi gonna come from, in a water column
that's only three feet tall? I make that out at around one-point-two psi.

 

In article <41A51B69.B631872C@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> In article <41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain
> <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> >LOL!
>> >
>> >Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
>> >
>> >The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
>> >the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
>> >the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
>> >
>> Nonsense.
>
>Well you know, everyone else has explained why I was wrong, but you are
>wrong here with that snip quote.
>
>That is 'not' nonsense.

Yes, it *is* nonsense, in the context of the situation described by the OP.
He's talking about pumping water into a 55-gallon drum, elevated eight to ten
feet above the ground. Now a standard 55-gal drum is about 3 feet tall,
which, incidentally, means that the maximum pressure that can be exerted by
the water in the tank is that of a 3-foot water column, and the effort to
overcome that pressure is exactly equivalent to that required to lift water
three feet. With me so far? The OP evidently has a pump that can lift water as
high as the top of the tank (thus approx 11 to 13 feet above ground). Any pump
that can lift water 11 to 13 feet, can certainly lift it three feet.

Put another way: if the pump develops enough pressure to pump water up to the
top of the tank, then it can pump water into the bottom of the tank.

> If there is 100 psi in the line and the pump
>can only pump 50, it will flow backward.

Well, obviously... but where's the 100 psi gonna come from, in a water column
that's only three feet tall? I make that out at around one-point-two psi.