OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-6BB8BB.12550424112004@news-east.newsfeeds.com...
> In article <hJ4pd.91466$T02.37417@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> "c" <c@me.org> wrote:
>
> > My physics is a bit rusty here, but IIRC, the pressure created at
the bottom
> > opening will be equal to the weight of a water column (which is the
area of
> > the opening x the height of the water column). This applies whether
the
> > bottom opening is at the side or on the bottom. A fluid exerts equal
> > pressure against all sides of its container that it is in contact
with. What
> > this means in essence is that it would take slightly less energy to
bottom
> > fill. Any fluid in a container has some amount of stored energy, The
wider
> > and shorter the container is, the less energy it will take to fill
it.
> >
> > Also, like the others said, the energy required to top fill will
remain
> > constant as the barrel fills. For bottom filling, the energy will
start out
> > slightly less, and end up the same as the barrel reaches full.
> >
> > Chris
>
> O.K. my lame-*** attempt at physics argument:
>
> Isn't part of the column the barrel? The barrel has a bigger column in
> it's part, than the hose. So the weight of the water column is GREATLY
> larger than the one in the hose going to the top. Less water - less
> weight, right?
The only thing that matters is the *height* of the column. Sure, the
water in the barrel weighs a whole bunch. Most of that weight is
supported by the bottom of the barrel, though.
Ray Drouillard
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
"Tom Quackenbush" <tquackenbogusinfo@kingcon.com> wrote in message
news:pmq9q0l4sjckqakm5b9sma5mdlptajk6fp@4ax.com...
> Jeepers wrote:
> <snip>
>
> >O.K. my lame-*** attempt at physics argument:
> >
> >Isn't part of the column the barrel? The barrel has a bigger column
in
> >it's part, than the hose. So the weight of the water column is
GREATLY
> >larger than the one in the hose going to the top. Less water - less
> >weight, right?
>
> Nope. When we speak of a column in this context, the column has the
> same area as the hose through which you're pumping fluid. If you
> wanted to know the pressure in pounds per square inch, you'd consider
> an imaginary coulumn with a cross-sectional area of 1 square inch.
>
> The volume of fluid outside the column doesn't matter.
>
> Consider this:
>
> If you submerge yourself one foot under water in your swimming pool,
> you're subject to the same pressure as if you were submerged one foot
> under water in Lake Superior, even though the volume of Lake Superior
> is a gazillion times larger than your swimming pool (gazillion being a
> highly technical term used for these sorts of comparisons).
If you submerge yourself a foot under water in Lake Superior, you had
better be related to the polar bear. ;-)
Ray Drouillard
#93
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
"Tom Quackenbush" <tquackenbogusinfo@kingcon.com> wrote in message
news:pmq9q0l4sjckqakm5b9sma5mdlptajk6fp@4ax.com...
> Jeepers wrote:
> <snip>
>
> >O.K. my lame-*** attempt at physics argument:
> >
> >Isn't part of the column the barrel? The barrel has a bigger column
in
> >it's part, than the hose. So the weight of the water column is
GREATLY
> >larger than the one in the hose going to the top. Less water - less
> >weight, right?
>
> Nope. When we speak of a column in this context, the column has the
> same area as the hose through which you're pumping fluid. If you
> wanted to know the pressure in pounds per square inch, you'd consider
> an imaginary coulumn with a cross-sectional area of 1 square inch.
>
> The volume of fluid outside the column doesn't matter.
>
> Consider this:
>
> If you submerge yourself one foot under water in your swimming pool,
> you're subject to the same pressure as if you were submerged one foot
> under water in Lake Superior, even though the volume of Lake Superior
> is a gazillion times larger than your swimming pool (gazillion being a
> highly technical term used for these sorts of comparisons).
If you submerge yourself a foot under water in Lake Superior, you had
better be related to the polar bear. ;-)
Ray Drouillard
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
"Tom Quackenbush" <tquackenbogusinfo@kingcon.com> wrote in message
news:pmq9q0l4sjckqakm5b9sma5mdlptajk6fp@4ax.com...
> Jeepers wrote:
> <snip>
>
> >O.K. my lame-*** attempt at physics argument:
> >
> >Isn't part of the column the barrel? The barrel has a bigger column
in
> >it's part, than the hose. So the weight of the water column is
GREATLY
> >larger than the one in the hose going to the top. Less water - less
> >weight, right?
>
> Nope. When we speak of a column in this context, the column has the
> same area as the hose through which you're pumping fluid. If you
> wanted to know the pressure in pounds per square inch, you'd consider
> an imaginary coulumn with a cross-sectional area of 1 square inch.
>
> The volume of fluid outside the column doesn't matter.
>
> Consider this:
>
> If you submerge yourself one foot under water in your swimming pool,
> you're subject to the same pressure as if you were submerged one foot
> under water in Lake Superior, even though the volume of Lake Superior
> is a gazillion times larger than your swimming pool (gazillion being a
> highly technical term used for these sorts of comparisons).
If you submerge yourself a foot under water in Lake Superior, you had
better be related to the polar bear. ;-)
Ray Drouillard
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
I figured it out thanks. I forgot about the smallest part of the column
being the pressure regulator in a static stack.
Mike
mabar wrote:
>
> The formula for the amount of pressure coming out of the bottom or top hole
> is:
>
> Each foot of height provides about 0.43 PSI (pounds per square inch) of
> pressure.
>
> The size or diameter of the tank does not matter. The pressure comes from
> the height of the water column. The pressure for any given height difference
> (from top tank to bottom tank) would be the same with any size tank. A
> million gallon water tank 10 feet off the ground will have the same water
> pressure draining as a 10 gallon tank, 10 feet off the ground.
>
> Tom
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca...
> > LOL!
> >
> > Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> > The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> > the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> > the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> via Encryption =----
being the pressure regulator in a static stack.
Mike
mabar wrote:
>
> The formula for the amount of pressure coming out of the bottom or top hole
> is:
>
> Each foot of height provides about 0.43 PSI (pounds per square inch) of
> pressure.
>
> The size or diameter of the tank does not matter. The pressure comes from
> the height of the water column. The pressure for any given height difference
> (from top tank to bottom tank) would be the same with any size tank. A
> million gallon water tank 10 feet off the ground will have the same water
> pressure draining as a 10 gallon tank, 10 feet off the ground.
>
> Tom
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca...
> > LOL!
> >
> > Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> > The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> > the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> > the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> via Encryption =----
#96
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
I figured it out thanks. I forgot about the smallest part of the column
being the pressure regulator in a static stack.
Mike
mabar wrote:
>
> The formula for the amount of pressure coming out of the bottom or top hole
> is:
>
> Each foot of height provides about 0.43 PSI (pounds per square inch) of
> pressure.
>
> The size or diameter of the tank does not matter. The pressure comes from
> the height of the water column. The pressure for any given height difference
> (from top tank to bottom tank) would be the same with any size tank. A
> million gallon water tank 10 feet off the ground will have the same water
> pressure draining as a 10 gallon tank, 10 feet off the ground.
>
> Tom
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca...
> > LOL!
> >
> > Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> > The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> > the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> > the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> via Encryption =----
being the pressure regulator in a static stack.
Mike
mabar wrote:
>
> The formula for the amount of pressure coming out of the bottom or top hole
> is:
>
> Each foot of height provides about 0.43 PSI (pounds per square inch) of
> pressure.
>
> The size or diameter of the tank does not matter. The pressure comes from
> the height of the water column. The pressure for any given height difference
> (from top tank to bottom tank) would be the same with any size tank. A
> million gallon water tank 10 feet off the ground will have the same water
> pressure draining as a 10 gallon tank, 10 feet off the ground.
>
> Tom
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca...
> > LOL!
> >
> > Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> > The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> > the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> > the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> via Encryption =----
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
I figured it out thanks. I forgot about the smallest part of the column
being the pressure regulator in a static stack.
Mike
mabar wrote:
>
> The formula for the amount of pressure coming out of the bottom or top hole
> is:
>
> Each foot of height provides about 0.43 PSI (pounds per square inch) of
> pressure.
>
> The size or diameter of the tank does not matter. The pressure comes from
> the height of the water column. The pressure for any given height difference
> (from top tank to bottom tank) would be the same with any size tank. A
> million gallon water tank 10 feet off the ground will have the same water
> pressure draining as a 10 gallon tank, 10 feet off the ground.
>
> Tom
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca...
> > LOL!
> >
> > Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> > The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> > the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> > the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> via Encryption =----
being the pressure regulator in a static stack.
Mike
mabar wrote:
>
> The formula for the amount of pressure coming out of the bottom or top hole
> is:
>
> Each foot of height provides about 0.43 PSI (pounds per square inch) of
> pressure.
>
> The size or diameter of the tank does not matter. The pressure comes from
> the height of the water column. The pressure for any given height difference
> (from top tank to bottom tank) would be the same with any size tank. A
> million gallon water tank 10 feet off the ground will have the same water
> pressure draining as a 10 gallon tank, 10 feet off the ground.
>
> Tom
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca...
> > LOL!
> >
> > Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> > The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> > the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> > the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> via Encryption =----
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >LOL!
> >
> >Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> >The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> >the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> >the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> Nonsense.
Well you know, everyone else has explained why I was wrong, but you are
wrong here with that snip quote.
That is 'not' nonsense. If there is 100 psi in the line and the pump
can only pump 50, it will flow backward.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> In article <41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >LOL!
> >
> >Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> >The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> >the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> >the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> Nonsense.
Well you know, everyone else has explained why I was wrong, but you are
wrong here with that snip quote.
That is 'not' nonsense. If there is 100 psi in the line and the pump
can only pump 50, it will flow backward.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
#99
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >LOL!
> >
> >Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> >The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> >the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> >the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> Nonsense.
Well you know, everyone else has explained why I was wrong, but you are
wrong here with that snip quote.
That is 'not' nonsense. If there is 100 psi in the line and the pump
can only pump 50, it will flow backward.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> In article <41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >LOL!
> >
> >Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> >The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> >the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> >the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> Nonsense.
Well you know, everyone else has explained why I was wrong, but you are
wrong here with that snip quote.
That is 'not' nonsense. If there is 100 psi in the line and the pump
can only pump 50, it will flow backward.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
#100
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: Physics/hydraulics of water and barrel
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >LOL!
> >
> >Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> >The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> >the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> >the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> Nonsense.
Well you know, everyone else has explained why I was wrong, but you are
wrong here with that snip quote.
That is 'not' nonsense. If there is 100 psi in the line and the pump
can only pump 50, it will flow backward.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> In article <41A4AC45.446CDF06@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >LOL!
> >
> >Water is heavy. How many PSI comes out that bottom hole?
> >
> >The pump must first overcome this pressure before it can start filling
> >the tank. That can easily mean the pump will 'run backward' and fill up
> >the truck if the top tank has enough weight in it.
> >
> Nonsense.
Well you know, everyone else has explained why I was wrong, but you are
wrong here with that snip quote.
That is 'not' nonsense. If there is 100 psi in the line and the pump
can only pump 50, it will flow backward.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's