OT: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
11-06-2004, 11:07 AM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
RoyJ proclaimed:
>
>> Which is of course, still much cheaper than government subsidized wind
>> generated power that everyone keeps harping about.
>
>
> And just where do you get that piece of information?
My guess would be from actual data sources unencumbered by wishful
thinking. And a bit of actually estimating the real energy
available from a wind farm as opposed to the values pulled
totally from the rear ends of scientifically ignorant econazis.
>
> It's you Kalifornians that insist that you cannot get any new sources of
> electricty except from Natural Gas that is causing my gas bill to triple
> from what is was 5 years ago. That works out to $1500 a year that you
> are ripping off from me to support your lifestyle.
Bummer. You could always go for nuclear power, one of the few power
sources superior to natural gas...however the actual supplies of
ordinary old methane along any suboceanic coast are simply freakingly
overwhelming to contemplate. Look up clathrates.
>
>> Which is of course, still much cheaper than government subsidized wind
>> generated power that everyone keeps harping about.
>
>
> And just where do you get that piece of information?
My guess would be from actual data sources unencumbered by wishful
thinking. And a bit of actually estimating the real energy
available from a wind farm as opposed to the values pulled
totally from the rear ends of scientifically ignorant econazis.
>
> It's you Kalifornians that insist that you cannot get any new sources of
> electricty except from Natural Gas that is causing my gas bill to triple
> from what is was 5 years ago. That works out to $1500 a year that you
> are ripping off from me to support your lifestyle.
Bummer. You could always go for nuclear power, one of the few power
sources superior to natural gas...however the actual supplies of
ordinary old methane along any suboceanic coast are simply freakingly
overwhelming to contemplate. Look up clathrates.
11-06-2004, 12:04 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
> Do your homework before you tiptoe off thru lala land. Your first
> assignment is to discover where that hydrogen comes from and how it
> is extracted.
Main sources: natural gas, coal, biomass, water. Look to the future, bright
eyes ...water.
> Then continue to discover what happens to a mixture
> of hydrogen and ordinary air as the hydrogen is burned and whether
> the resulting products are pure water as suggested by the scientific
> illiterate or something a bit less pristine as happens in the real
> world.
When created through natural gas extraction, yes there are pollutants. When
used to power a fuel cell to run an engine, it's only real byproduct is
water. Very low pollution all around though when compared to current
methods - but it needs to be developed for an efficient mass-scale.
> And for the grand finale, compute the total cycle energy
> costs of actually producing and distributing all that hydrogen.
I believe H has the highest energy content by weight of any available fuel
and when they can efficiently produce, store, and use it ...it will be alot
easier on the enviro than any currently used fuel. Especially when you
consider the amount of energy and fuel used to transport oil barrels from
overseas (not even including the damage done by spills).
> Then take another look at the energy densities available with ordinary
old
> lowly gasoline scrubbed clean by a cat convertor.
For now. It's like trying to explain the benefits of steam over coal to an
1820's train operator. Give it time.
> assignment is to discover where that hydrogen comes from and how it
> is extracted.
Main sources: natural gas, coal, biomass, water. Look to the future, bright
eyes ...water.
> Then continue to discover what happens to a mixture
> of hydrogen and ordinary air as the hydrogen is burned and whether
> the resulting products are pure water as suggested by the scientific
> illiterate or something a bit less pristine as happens in the real
> world.
When created through natural gas extraction, yes there are pollutants. When
used to power a fuel cell to run an engine, it's only real byproduct is
water. Very low pollution all around though when compared to current
methods - but it needs to be developed for an efficient mass-scale.
> And for the grand finale, compute the total cycle energy
> costs of actually producing and distributing all that hydrogen.
I believe H has the highest energy content by weight of any available fuel
and when they can efficiently produce, store, and use it ...it will be alot
easier on the enviro than any currently used fuel. Especially when you
consider the amount of energy and fuel used to transport oil barrels from
overseas (not even including the damage done by spills).
> Then take another look at the energy densities available with ordinary
old
> lowly gasoline scrubbed clean by a cat convertor.
For now. It's like trying to explain the benefits of steam over coal to an
1820's train operator. Give it time.
11-06-2004, 12:04 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
> Do your homework before you tiptoe off thru lala land. Your first
> assignment is to discover where that hydrogen comes from and how it
> is extracted.
Main sources: natural gas, coal, biomass, water. Look to the future, bright
eyes ...water.
> Then continue to discover what happens to a mixture
> of hydrogen and ordinary air as the hydrogen is burned and whether
> the resulting products are pure water as suggested by the scientific
> illiterate or something a bit less pristine as happens in the real
> world.
When created through natural gas extraction, yes there are pollutants. When
used to power a fuel cell to run an engine, it's only real byproduct is
water. Very low pollution all around though when compared to current
methods - but it needs to be developed for an efficient mass-scale.
> And for the grand finale, compute the total cycle energy
> costs of actually producing and distributing all that hydrogen.
I believe H has the highest energy content by weight of any available fuel
and when they can efficiently produce, store, and use it ...it will be alot
easier on the enviro than any currently used fuel. Especially when you
consider the amount of energy and fuel used to transport oil barrels from
overseas (not even including the damage done by spills).
> Then take another look at the energy densities available with ordinary
old
> lowly gasoline scrubbed clean by a cat convertor.
For now. It's like trying to explain the benefits of steam over coal to an
1820's train operator. Give it time.
> assignment is to discover where that hydrogen comes from and how it
> is extracted.
Main sources: natural gas, coal, biomass, water. Look to the future, bright
eyes ...water.
> Then continue to discover what happens to a mixture
> of hydrogen and ordinary air as the hydrogen is burned and whether
> the resulting products are pure water as suggested by the scientific
> illiterate or something a bit less pristine as happens in the real
> world.
When created through natural gas extraction, yes there are pollutants. When
used to power a fuel cell to run an engine, it's only real byproduct is
water. Very low pollution all around though when compared to current
methods - but it needs to be developed for an efficient mass-scale.
> And for the grand finale, compute the total cycle energy
> costs of actually producing and distributing all that hydrogen.
I believe H has the highest energy content by weight of any available fuel
and when they can efficiently produce, store, and use it ...it will be alot
easier on the enviro than any currently used fuel. Especially when you
consider the amount of energy and fuel used to transport oil barrels from
overseas (not even including the damage done by spills).
> Then take another look at the energy densities available with ordinary
old
> lowly gasoline scrubbed clean by a cat convertor.
For now. It's like trying to explain the benefits of steam over coal to an
1820's train operator. Give it time.
11-06-2004, 01:14 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
I do, but I'm not dyslexic.
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:418C0C5C.E7B1B39F@***.net...
> I thought you owned your store, and were aware of profit and loss
> statements.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > Ten cents an hour only if you are a Bangladshi 11-year old.
> >
> > Of course, the general cost of living rise has nothing to do with the
going
> > OTR pay scales, does it...
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:418C0C5C.E7B1B39F@***.net...
> I thought you owned your store, and were aware of profit and loss
> statements.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > Ten cents an hour only if you are a Bangladshi 11-year old.
> >
> > Of course, the general cost of living rise has nothing to do with the
going
> > OTR pay scales, does it...
11-06-2004, 01:14 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
I do, but I'm not dyslexic.
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:418C0C5C.E7B1B39F@***.net...
> I thought you owned your store, and were aware of profit and loss
> statements.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > Ten cents an hour only if you are a Bangladshi 11-year old.
> >
> > Of course, the general cost of living rise has nothing to do with the
going
> > OTR pay scales, does it...
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:418C0C5C.E7B1B39F@***.net...
> I thought you owned your store, and were aware of profit and loss
> statements.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > Ten cents an hour only if you are a Bangladshi 11-year old.
> >
> > Of course, the general cost of living rise has nothing to do with the
going
> > OTR pay scales, does it...
11-06-2004, 02:25 PM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
Maybe if you did a Google search for energy costs, you too could act
educated:
http://www.hydrographicsociety.org/A...2002/105-1.htm
http://www.awea.org/faq/index.html
http://www.solarbuzz.com/DistributedGeneration.htm
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
RoyJ wrote:
>
> And just where do you get that piece of information?
>
> It's you Kalifornians that insist that you cannot get any new sources of
> electricty except from Natural Gas that is causing my gas bill to triple
> from what is was 5 years ago. That works out to $1500 a year that you
> are ripping off from me to support your lifestyle.
educated:
http://www.hydrographicsociety.org/A...2002/105-1.htm
http://www.awea.org/faq/index.html
http://www.solarbuzz.com/DistributedGeneration.htm
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
RoyJ wrote:
>
> And just where do you get that piece of information?
>
> It's you Kalifornians that insist that you cannot get any new sources of
> electricty except from Natural Gas that is causing my gas bill to triple
> from what is was 5 years ago. That works out to $1500 a year that you
> are ripping off from me to support your lifestyle.
11-06-2004, 02:25 PM
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
Maybe if you did a Google search for energy costs, you too could act
educated:
http://www.hydrographicsociety.org/A...2002/105-1.htm
http://www.awea.org/faq/index.html
http://www.solarbuzz.com/DistributedGeneration.htm
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
RoyJ wrote:
>
> And just where do you get that piece of information?
>
> It's you Kalifornians that insist that you cannot get any new sources of
> electricty except from Natural Gas that is causing my gas bill to triple
> from what is was 5 years ago. That works out to $1500 a year that you
> are ripping off from me to support your lifestyle.
educated:
http://www.hydrographicsociety.org/A...2002/105-1.htm
http://www.awea.org/faq/index.html
http://www.solarbuzz.com/DistributedGeneration.htm
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
RoyJ wrote:
>
> And just where do you get that piece of information?
>
> It's you Kalifornians that insist that you cannot get any new sources of
> electricty except from Natural Gas that is causing my gas bill to triple
> from what is was 5 years ago. That works out to $1500 a year that you
> are ripping off from me to support your lifestyle.
11-06-2004, 02:28 PM
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
Then Matt, you're acting stupid, if you don't believe their are store
owners like you not making a profit, and maybe only making ten cents an
hour, when they are hit with unforeseen expenses. Just like the owner,
operator, truckers that are now with their fuel and insurance costs
going through the roof, just making their truck payments, hoping to make
it until they can re-negotiate a new contract. Understand?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> I do, but I'm not dyslexic.
owners like you not making a profit, and maybe only making ten cents an
hour, when they are hit with unforeseen expenses. Just like the owner,
operator, truckers that are now with their fuel and insurance costs
going through the roof, just making their truck payments, hoping to make
it until they can re-negotiate a new contract. Understand?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> I do, but I'm not dyslexic.
11-06-2004, 02:28 PM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
Then Matt, you're acting stupid, if you don't believe their are store
owners like you not making a profit, and maybe only making ten cents an
hour, when they are hit with unforeseen expenses. Just like the owner,
operator, truckers that are now with their fuel and insurance costs
going through the roof, just making their truck payments, hoping to make
it until they can re-negotiate a new contract. Understand?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> I do, but I'm not dyslexic.
owners like you not making a profit, and maybe only making ten cents an
hour, when they are hit with unforeseen expenses. Just like the owner,
operator, truckers that are now with their fuel and insurance costs
going through the roof, just making their truck payments, hoping to make
it until they can re-negotiate a new contract. Understand?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> I do, but I'm not dyslexic.
11-06-2004, 02:40 PM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
"Making" ten cents and hour I read as "grossing" ten cents an hour, like
what they pay Bangladeshi kids to make Nikes.
Some months I'm in the red, most I'm in the black...
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:418D25C7.5CCB1872@***.net...
> Then Matt, you're acting stupid, if you don't believe their are store
> owners like you not making a profit, and maybe only making ten cents an
> hour, when they are hit with unforeseen expenses. Just like the owner,
> operator, truckers that are now with their fuel and insurance costs
> going through the roof, just making their truck payments, hoping to make
> it until they can re-negotiate a new contract. Understand?
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > I do, but I'm not dyslexic.
what they pay Bangladeshi kids to make Nikes.
Some months I'm in the red, most I'm in the black...
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:418D25C7.5CCB1872@***.net...
> Then Matt, you're acting stupid, if you don't believe their are store
> owners like you not making a profit, and maybe only making ten cents an
> hour, when they are hit with unforeseen expenses. Just like the owner,
> operator, truckers that are now with their fuel and insurance costs
> going through the roof, just making their truck payments, hoping to make
> it until they can re-negotiate a new contract. Understand?
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > I do, but I'm not dyslexic.