Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
In article <3FD7E8C1.25D018D1@***.net>, L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) ------
III <----------@***.net> writes:
> Fortunately God gave me reasoning that I may release to steer, and
>has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
>pushed the "panic" button.
That's what ABS does, release a faster than you ever could...I guess you're one
of those millions who would continue to pump the pedal on an ABS-equipped
vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
III <----------@***.net> writes:
> Fortunately God gave me reasoning that I may release to steer, and
>has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
>pushed the "panic" button.
That's what ABS does, release a faster than you ever could...I guess you're one
of those millions who would continue to pump the pedal on an ABS-equipped
vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
They used to advertise the 'new' systems as rear ABS when they first
came out.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 04:32 PM, mabar posted the following:
> > Del:
> >
> > Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most
> > TJ's, even without ABS. Try it sometime.
>
> I think you are probably right about that, but just because that is how
> they have the proportioning valve set up, doesn't make it rear wheel ABS
> as Mike asserted. It is purely a passive system and will not actively
> adapt to changing conditions like ABS will. This should not be
> construed to mean that I think there is anything wrong with a good
> proportioning valve setup. As with all things mechanical, it is a
> compromise. My old 2wd automatic truck that will lock up the fronts
> while the rears keep turning on ice, will cheerfully lock up one or both
> rear wheels in a maximum performance stop on dry pavement if you apply
> too much pressure (don't ask how I know this). At least I don't feel so
> bad for not spending the big bucks on a rear disc conversion for it.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
came out.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 04:32 PM, mabar posted the following:
> > Del:
> >
> > Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most
> > TJ's, even without ABS. Try it sometime.
>
> I think you are probably right about that, but just because that is how
> they have the proportioning valve set up, doesn't make it rear wheel ABS
> as Mike asserted. It is purely a passive system and will not actively
> adapt to changing conditions like ABS will. This should not be
> construed to mean that I think there is anything wrong with a good
> proportioning valve setup. As with all things mechanical, it is a
> compromise. My old 2wd automatic truck that will lock up the fronts
> while the rears keep turning on ice, will cheerfully lock up one or both
> rear wheels in a maximum performance stop on dry pavement if you apply
> too much pressure (don't ask how I know this). At least I don't feel so
> bad for not spending the big bucks on a rear disc conversion for it.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
They used to advertise the 'new' systems as rear ABS when they first
came out.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 04:32 PM, mabar posted the following:
> > Del:
> >
> > Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most
> > TJ's, even without ABS. Try it sometime.
>
> I think you are probably right about that, but just because that is how
> they have the proportioning valve set up, doesn't make it rear wheel ABS
> as Mike asserted. It is purely a passive system and will not actively
> adapt to changing conditions like ABS will. This should not be
> construed to mean that I think there is anything wrong with a good
> proportioning valve setup. As with all things mechanical, it is a
> compromise. My old 2wd automatic truck that will lock up the fronts
> while the rears keep turning on ice, will cheerfully lock up one or both
> rear wheels in a maximum performance stop on dry pavement if you apply
> too much pressure (don't ask how I know this). At least I don't feel so
> bad for not spending the big bucks on a rear disc conversion for it.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
came out.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 04:32 PM, mabar posted the following:
> > Del:
> >
> > Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most
> > TJ's, even without ABS. Try it sometime.
>
> I think you are probably right about that, but just because that is how
> they have the proportioning valve set up, doesn't make it rear wheel ABS
> as Mike asserted. It is purely a passive system and will not actively
> adapt to changing conditions like ABS will. This should not be
> construed to mean that I think there is anything wrong with a good
> proportioning valve setup. As with all things mechanical, it is a
> compromise. My old 2wd automatic truck that will lock up the fronts
> while the rears keep turning on ice, will cheerfully lock up one or both
> rear wheels in a maximum performance stop on dry pavement if you apply
> too much pressure (don't ask how I know this). At least I don't feel so
> bad for not spending the big bucks on a rear disc conversion for it.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
They used to advertise the 'new' systems as rear ABS when they first
came out.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 04:32 PM, mabar posted the following:
> > Del:
> >
> > Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most
> > TJ's, even without ABS. Try it sometime.
>
> I think you are probably right about that, but just because that is how
> they have the proportioning valve set up, doesn't make it rear wheel ABS
> as Mike asserted. It is purely a passive system and will not actively
> adapt to changing conditions like ABS will. This should not be
> construed to mean that I think there is anything wrong with a good
> proportioning valve setup. As with all things mechanical, it is a
> compromise. My old 2wd automatic truck that will lock up the fronts
> while the rears keep turning on ice, will cheerfully lock up one or both
> rear wheels in a maximum performance stop on dry pavement if you apply
> too much pressure (don't ask how I know this). At least I don't feel so
> bad for not spending the big bucks on a rear disc conversion for it.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
came out.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 04:32 PM, mabar posted the following:
> > Del:
> >
> > Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most
> > TJ's, even without ABS. Try it sometime.
>
> I think you are probably right about that, but just because that is how
> they have the proportioning valve set up, doesn't make it rear wheel ABS
> as Mike asserted. It is purely a passive system and will not actively
> adapt to changing conditions like ABS will. This should not be
> construed to mean that I think there is anything wrong with a good
> proportioning valve setup. As with all things mechanical, it is a
> compromise. My old 2wd automatic truck that will lock up the fronts
> while the rears keep turning on ice, will cheerfully lock up one or both
> rear wheels in a maximum performance stop on dry pavement if you apply
> too much pressure (don't ask how I know this). At least I don't feel so
> bad for not spending the big bucks on a rear disc conversion for it.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
The NHTSA says the same as I stated.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...absbrakes.html
Quote:
Are all antilock systems the same?
They are all very similar in the way they control brake pressure, but
some sytems are designed to prevent only the rear wheels from locking
up. These rear-wheel-only systems are found on pickups and sport-utility
vehicles. Rear-wheel ABS keeps your vehicle from spinning out of
control,
End quote.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 07:32 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>
> > Del, all Jeeps have rear ABS. Or they have had it since the late 70's
> > anyway.
> >
> > It is called a combination valve which prevents the rear wheels from
> > locking up so you can track straight in a panic stop.
> >
> > If the rear wheels lock, you will do a 360 faster than you can blink.
>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
> > That rear ABS is a real pain with an automatic tranny. The rear
> > wheels will keep pushing you on snow when you want to stop. They can
> > and will push you right through an intersection unless you drop it
> > into neutral.
>
> The problem you refer to is a characteristic of a 2wd vehicle with an
> automatic, and isn't necessarily caused by the proportioning valve. The
> front wheels lock up, because they can, and since the rear wheels are
> still being driven you have to drop into neutral to stop. It may or may
> not be caused by the proportioning valve, but that still doesn't make
> that valve ABS. Personally I'd rather just shift the thing into neutral
> when approaching the stop and not lock up at all. My '73 2wd pickup
> will do this but it is a non-issue if you are expecting it and know how
> to deal with it. And of course as I'm sure you know, shift into 4wd and
> the problem ceases to exist.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...absbrakes.html
Quote:
Are all antilock systems the same?
They are all very similar in the way they control brake pressure, but
some sytems are designed to prevent only the rear wheels from locking
up. These rear-wheel-only systems are found on pickups and sport-utility
vehicles. Rear-wheel ABS keeps your vehicle from spinning out of
control,
End quote.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 07:32 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>
> > Del, all Jeeps have rear ABS. Or they have had it since the late 70's
> > anyway.
> >
> > It is called a combination valve which prevents the rear wheels from
> > locking up so you can track straight in a panic stop.
> >
> > If the rear wheels lock, you will do a 360 faster than you can blink.
>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
> > That rear ABS is a real pain with an automatic tranny. The rear
> > wheels will keep pushing you on snow when you want to stop. They can
> > and will push you right through an intersection unless you drop it
> > into neutral.
>
> The problem you refer to is a characteristic of a 2wd vehicle with an
> automatic, and isn't necessarily caused by the proportioning valve. The
> front wheels lock up, because they can, and since the rear wheels are
> still being driven you have to drop into neutral to stop. It may or may
> not be caused by the proportioning valve, but that still doesn't make
> that valve ABS. Personally I'd rather just shift the thing into neutral
> when approaching the stop and not lock up at all. My '73 2wd pickup
> will do this but it is a non-issue if you are expecting it and know how
> to deal with it. And of course as I'm sure you know, shift into 4wd and
> the problem ceases to exist.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
The NHTSA says the same as I stated.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...absbrakes.html
Quote:
Are all antilock systems the same?
They are all very similar in the way they control brake pressure, but
some sytems are designed to prevent only the rear wheels from locking
up. These rear-wheel-only systems are found on pickups and sport-utility
vehicles. Rear-wheel ABS keeps your vehicle from spinning out of
control,
End quote.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 07:32 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>
> > Del, all Jeeps have rear ABS. Or they have had it since the late 70's
> > anyway.
> >
> > It is called a combination valve which prevents the rear wheels from
> > locking up so you can track straight in a panic stop.
> >
> > If the rear wheels lock, you will do a 360 faster than you can blink.
>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
> > That rear ABS is a real pain with an automatic tranny. The rear
> > wheels will keep pushing you on snow when you want to stop. They can
> > and will push you right through an intersection unless you drop it
> > into neutral.
>
> The problem you refer to is a characteristic of a 2wd vehicle with an
> automatic, and isn't necessarily caused by the proportioning valve. The
> front wheels lock up, because they can, and since the rear wheels are
> still being driven you have to drop into neutral to stop. It may or may
> not be caused by the proportioning valve, but that still doesn't make
> that valve ABS. Personally I'd rather just shift the thing into neutral
> when approaching the stop and not lock up at all. My '73 2wd pickup
> will do this but it is a non-issue if you are expecting it and know how
> to deal with it. And of course as I'm sure you know, shift into 4wd and
> the problem ceases to exist.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...absbrakes.html
Quote:
Are all antilock systems the same?
They are all very similar in the way they control brake pressure, but
some sytems are designed to prevent only the rear wheels from locking
up. These rear-wheel-only systems are found on pickups and sport-utility
vehicles. Rear-wheel ABS keeps your vehicle from spinning out of
control,
End quote.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 07:32 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>
> > Del, all Jeeps have rear ABS. Or they have had it since the late 70's
> > anyway.
> >
> > It is called a combination valve which prevents the rear wheels from
> > locking up so you can track straight in a panic stop.
> >
> > If the rear wheels lock, you will do a 360 faster than you can blink.
>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
> > That rear ABS is a real pain with an automatic tranny. The rear
> > wheels will keep pushing you on snow when you want to stop. They can
> > and will push you right through an intersection unless you drop it
> > into neutral.
>
> The problem you refer to is a characteristic of a 2wd vehicle with an
> automatic, and isn't necessarily caused by the proportioning valve. The
> front wheels lock up, because they can, and since the rear wheels are
> still being driven you have to drop into neutral to stop. It may or may
> not be caused by the proportioning valve, but that still doesn't make
> that valve ABS. Personally I'd rather just shift the thing into neutral
> when approaching the stop and not lock up at all. My '73 2wd pickup
> will do this but it is a non-issue if you are expecting it and know how
> to deal with it. And of course as I'm sure you know, shift into 4wd and
> the problem ceases to exist.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
The NHTSA says the same as I stated.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...absbrakes.html
Quote:
Are all antilock systems the same?
They are all very similar in the way they control brake pressure, but
some sytems are designed to prevent only the rear wheels from locking
up. These rear-wheel-only systems are found on pickups and sport-utility
vehicles. Rear-wheel ABS keeps your vehicle from spinning out of
control,
End quote.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 07:32 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>
> > Del, all Jeeps have rear ABS. Or they have had it since the late 70's
> > anyway.
> >
> > It is called a combination valve which prevents the rear wheels from
> > locking up so you can track straight in a panic stop.
> >
> > If the rear wheels lock, you will do a 360 faster than you can blink.
>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
> > That rear ABS is a real pain with an automatic tranny. The rear
> > wheels will keep pushing you on snow when you want to stop. They can
> > and will push you right through an intersection unless you drop it
> > into neutral.
>
> The problem you refer to is a characteristic of a 2wd vehicle with an
> automatic, and isn't necessarily caused by the proportioning valve. The
> front wheels lock up, because they can, and since the rear wheels are
> still being driven you have to drop into neutral to stop. It may or may
> not be caused by the proportioning valve, but that still doesn't make
> that valve ABS. Personally I'd rather just shift the thing into neutral
> when approaching the stop and not lock up at all. My '73 2wd pickup
> will do this but it is a non-issue if you are expecting it and know how
> to deal with it. And of course as I'm sure you know, shift into 4wd and
> the problem ceases to exist.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...absbrakes.html
Quote:
Are all antilock systems the same?
They are all very similar in the way they control brake pressure, but
some sytems are designed to prevent only the rear wheels from locking
up. These rear-wheel-only systems are found on pickups and sport-utility
vehicles. Rear-wheel ABS keeps your vehicle from spinning out of
control,
End quote.
Mike
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 10 Dec 2003 07:32 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>
> > Del, all Jeeps have rear ABS. Or they have had it since the late 70's
> > anyway.
> >
> > It is called a combination valve which prevents the rear wheels from
> > locking up so you can track straight in a panic stop.
> >
> > If the rear wheels lock, you will do a 360 faster than you can blink.
>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
> > That rear ABS is a real pain with an automatic tranny. The rear
> > wheels will keep pushing you on snow when you want to stop. They can
> > and will push you right through an intersection unless you drop it
> > into neutral.
>
> The problem you refer to is a characteristic of a 2wd vehicle with an
> automatic, and isn't necessarily caused by the proportioning valve. The
> front wheels lock up, because they can, and since the rear wheels are
> still being driven you have to drop into neutral to stop. It may or may
> not be caused by the proportioning valve, but that still doesn't make
> that valve ABS. Personally I'd rather just shift the thing into neutral
> when approaching the stop and not lock up at all. My '73 2wd pickup
> will do this but it is a non-issue if you are expecting it and know how
> to deal with it. And of course as I'm sure you know, shift into 4wd and
> the problem ceases to exist.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Hi Mike,
In the mid sixties the International Harvester Scout Traveler (full
sized wagon) really did have all the ABS garbage that operated the rear
axle only.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> They used to advertise the 'new' systems as rear ABS when they first
> came out.
>
> Mike
In the mid sixties the International Harvester Scout Traveler (full
sized wagon) really did have all the ABS garbage that operated the rear
axle only.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> They used to advertise the 'new' systems as rear ABS when they first
> came out.
>
> Mike
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Hi Mike,
In the mid sixties the International Harvester Scout Traveler (full
sized wagon) really did have all the ABS garbage that operated the rear
axle only.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> They used to advertise the 'new' systems as rear ABS when they first
> came out.
>
> Mike
In the mid sixties the International Harvester Scout Traveler (full
sized wagon) really did have all the ABS garbage that operated the rear
axle only.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> They used to advertise the 'new' systems as rear ABS when they first
> came out.
>
> Mike
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Hi Mike,
In the mid sixties the International Harvester Scout Traveler (full
sized wagon) really did have all the ABS garbage that operated the rear
axle only.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> They used to advertise the 'new' systems as rear ABS when they first
> came out.
>
> Mike
In the mid sixties the International Harvester Scout Traveler (full
sized wagon) really did have all the ABS garbage that operated the rear
axle only.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> They used to advertise the 'new' systems as rear ABS when they first
> came out.
>
> Mike
