Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
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Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
On 10 Dec 2003 04:32 PM, mabar posted the following:
> Del:
>
> Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most
> TJ's, even without ABS. Try it sometime.
I think you are probably right about that, but just because that is how
they have the proportioning valve set up, doesn't make it rear wheel ABS
as Mike asserted. It is purely a passive system and will not actively
adapt to changing conditions like ABS will. This should not be
construed to mean that I think there is anything wrong with a good
proportioning valve setup. As with all things mechanical, it is a
compromise. My old 2wd automatic truck that will lock up the fronts
while the rears keep turning on ice, will cheerfully lock up one or both
rear wheels in a maximum performance stop on dry pavement if you apply
too much pressure (don't ask how I know this). At least I don't feel so
bad for not spending the big bucks on a rear disc conversion for it.
----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> Del:
>
> Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most
> TJ's, even without ABS. Try it sometime.
I think you are probably right about that, but just because that is how
they have the proportioning valve set up, doesn't make it rear wheel ABS
as Mike asserted. It is purely a passive system and will not actively
adapt to changing conditions like ABS will. This should not be
construed to mean that I think there is anything wrong with a good
proportioning valve setup. As with all things mechanical, it is a
compromise. My old 2wd automatic truck that will lock up the fronts
while the rears keep turning on ice, will cheerfully lock up one or both
rear wheels in a maximum performance stop on dry pavement if you apply
too much pressure (don't ask how I know this). At least I don't feel so
bad for not spending the big bucks on a rear disc conversion for it.
----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
On 10 Dec 2003 04:32 PM, mabar posted the following:
> Del:
>
> Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most
> TJ's, even without ABS. Try it sometime.
I think you are probably right about that, but just because that is how
they have the proportioning valve set up, doesn't make it rear wheel ABS
as Mike asserted. It is purely a passive system and will not actively
adapt to changing conditions like ABS will. This should not be
construed to mean that I think there is anything wrong with a good
proportioning valve setup. As with all things mechanical, it is a
compromise. My old 2wd automatic truck that will lock up the fronts
while the rears keep turning on ice, will cheerfully lock up one or both
rear wheels in a maximum performance stop on dry pavement if you apply
too much pressure (don't ask how I know this). At least I don't feel so
bad for not spending the big bucks on a rear disc conversion for it.
----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> Del:
>
> Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most
> TJ's, even without ABS. Try it sometime.
I think you are probably right about that, but just because that is how
they have the proportioning valve set up, doesn't make it rear wheel ABS
as Mike asserted. It is purely a passive system and will not actively
adapt to changing conditions like ABS will. This should not be
construed to mean that I think there is anything wrong with a good
proportioning valve setup. As with all things mechanical, it is a
compromise. My old 2wd automatic truck that will lock up the fronts
while the rears keep turning on ice, will cheerfully lock up one or both
rear wheels in a maximum performance stop on dry pavement if you apply
too much pressure (don't ask how I know this). At least I don't feel so
bad for not spending the big bucks on a rear disc conversion for it.
----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
"whatever else runs the ABS" That's what I thought.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> The fluid is directed from the master to the wheel cylinders when the
> ABS is disabled for the same reason that the brakes work normally until
> the ABS engages when the ABS isn't disabled. The ABS modulator unit
> also contains the proportioning valve, which is why the brakes act as a
> standard braking system until the ABS engages.
>
> The solenoids, pumps, accumulators, and whatever else runs the ABS don't
> even come into play when the ABS is not operating; they are transparent
> to the system until the control unit detects a lockup at one of the
> wheel speed sensors, at which point the ABS hardware activates to
> modulate pressure to that wheel. As far as the braking system is
> concerned, it doesn't matter whether the ABS isn't on because the fuse
> is pulled, or if the driver just isn't braking hard enough to engage the
> ABS, the result is the same: Normal braking. No morphing required.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> The fluid is directed from the master to the wheel cylinders when the
> ABS is disabled for the same reason that the brakes work normally until
> the ABS engages when the ABS isn't disabled. The ABS modulator unit
> also contains the proportioning valve, which is why the brakes act as a
> standard braking system until the ABS engages.
>
> The solenoids, pumps, accumulators, and whatever else runs the ABS don't
> even come into play when the ABS is not operating; they are transparent
> to the system until the control unit detects a lockup at one of the
> wheel speed sensors, at which point the ABS hardware activates to
> modulate pressure to that wheel. As far as the braking system is
> concerned, it doesn't matter whether the ABS isn't on because the fuse
> is pulled, or if the driver just isn't braking hard enough to engage the
> ABS, the result is the same: Normal braking. No morphing required.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
"whatever else runs the ABS" That's what I thought.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> The fluid is directed from the master to the wheel cylinders when the
> ABS is disabled for the same reason that the brakes work normally until
> the ABS engages when the ABS isn't disabled. The ABS modulator unit
> also contains the proportioning valve, which is why the brakes act as a
> standard braking system until the ABS engages.
>
> The solenoids, pumps, accumulators, and whatever else runs the ABS don't
> even come into play when the ABS is not operating; they are transparent
> to the system until the control unit detects a lockup at one of the
> wheel speed sensors, at which point the ABS hardware activates to
> modulate pressure to that wheel. As far as the braking system is
> concerned, it doesn't matter whether the ABS isn't on because the fuse
> is pulled, or if the driver just isn't braking hard enough to engage the
> ABS, the result is the same: Normal braking. No morphing required.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> The fluid is directed from the master to the wheel cylinders when the
> ABS is disabled for the same reason that the brakes work normally until
> the ABS engages when the ABS isn't disabled. The ABS modulator unit
> also contains the proportioning valve, which is why the brakes act as a
> standard braking system until the ABS engages.
>
> The solenoids, pumps, accumulators, and whatever else runs the ABS don't
> even come into play when the ABS is not operating; they are transparent
> to the system until the control unit detects a lockup at one of the
> wheel speed sensors, at which point the ABS hardware activates to
> modulate pressure to that wheel. As far as the braking system is
> concerned, it doesn't matter whether the ABS isn't on because the fuse
> is pulled, or if the driver just isn't braking hard enough to engage the
> ABS, the result is the same: Normal braking. No morphing required.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
"whatever else runs the ABS" That's what I thought.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> The fluid is directed from the master to the wheel cylinders when the
> ABS is disabled for the same reason that the brakes work normally until
> the ABS engages when the ABS isn't disabled. The ABS modulator unit
> also contains the proportioning valve, which is why the brakes act as a
> standard braking system until the ABS engages.
>
> The solenoids, pumps, accumulators, and whatever else runs the ABS don't
> even come into play when the ABS is not operating; they are transparent
> to the system until the control unit detects a lockup at one of the
> wheel speed sensors, at which point the ABS hardware activates to
> modulate pressure to that wheel. As far as the braking system is
> concerned, it doesn't matter whether the ABS isn't on because the fuse
> is pulled, or if the driver just isn't braking hard enough to engage the
> ABS, the result is the same: Normal braking. No morphing required.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> The fluid is directed from the master to the wheel cylinders when the
> ABS is disabled for the same reason that the brakes work normally until
> the ABS engages when the ABS isn't disabled. The ABS modulator unit
> also contains the proportioning valve, which is why the brakes act as a
> standard braking system until the ABS engages.
>
> The solenoids, pumps, accumulators, and whatever else runs the ABS don't
> even come into play when the ABS is not operating; they are transparent
> to the system until the control unit detects a lockup at one of the
> wheel speed sensors, at which point the ABS hardware activates to
> modulate pressure to that wheel. As far as the braking system is
> concerned, it doesn't matter whether the ABS isn't on because the fuse
> is pulled, or if the driver just isn't braking hard enough to engage the
> ABS, the result is the same: Normal braking. No morphing required.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Fortunately God gave me reasoning that I may release to steer, and
has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
pushed the "panic" button.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Bill, blow the cobwebs off your imagination and think of a vehicle on a slick
> surface with their front wheels locked up, sliding straight down the road. Now
> think of what the vehicle does when you crank the steering wheel to either
> direction. Still sliding straight down the road.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
pushed the "panic" button.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Bill, blow the cobwebs off your imagination and think of a vehicle on a slick
> surface with their front wheels locked up, sliding straight down the road. Now
> think of what the vehicle does when you crank the steering wheel to either
> direction. Still sliding straight down the road.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Fortunately God gave me reasoning that I may release to steer, and
has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
pushed the "panic" button.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Bill, blow the cobwebs off your imagination and think of a vehicle on a slick
> surface with their front wheels locked up, sliding straight down the road. Now
> think of what the vehicle does when you crank the steering wheel to either
> direction. Still sliding straight down the road.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
pushed the "panic" button.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Bill, blow the cobwebs off your imagination and think of a vehicle on a slick
> surface with their front wheels locked up, sliding straight down the road. Now
> think of what the vehicle does when you crank the steering wheel to either
> direction. Still sliding straight down the road.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Fortunately God gave me reasoning that I may release to steer, and
has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
pushed the "panic" button.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Bill, blow the cobwebs off your imagination and think of a vehicle on a slick
> surface with their front wheels locked up, sliding straight down the road. Now
> think of what the vehicle does when you crank the steering wheel to either
> direction. Still sliding straight down the road.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
pushed the "panic" button.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Bill, blow the cobwebs off your imagination and think of a vehicle on a slick
> surface with their front wheels locked up, sliding straight down the road. Now
> think of what the vehicle does when you crank the steering wheel to either
> direction. Still sliding straight down the road.
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
In article <3FD7E8C1.25D018D1@***.net>, L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) ------
III <----------@***.net> writes:
> Fortunately God gave me reasoning that I may release to steer, and
>has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
>pushed the "panic" button.
That's what ABS does, release a faster than you ever could...I guess you're one
of those millions who would continue to pump the pedal on an ABS-equipped
vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
III <----------@***.net> writes:
> Fortunately God gave me reasoning that I may release to steer, and
>has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
>pushed the "panic" button.
That's what ABS does, release a faster than you ever could...I guess you're one
of those millions who would continue to pump the pedal on an ABS-equipped
vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
In article <3FD7E8C1.25D018D1@***.net>, L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) ------
III <----------@***.net> writes:
> Fortunately God gave me reasoning that I may release to steer, and
>has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
>pushed the "panic" button.
That's what ABS does, release a faster than you ever could...I guess you're one
of those millions who would continue to pump the pedal on an ABS-equipped
vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
III <----------@***.net> writes:
> Fortunately God gave me reasoning that I may release to steer, and
>has let me prove it many times on the California roads. I have never
>pushed the "panic" button.
That's what ABS does, release a faster than you ever could...I guess you're one
of those millions who would continue to pump the pedal on an ABS-equipped
vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html