Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Roughly 12/10/03 05:16, Matt Macchiarolo's monkeys randomly typed:
> In article <3FD682CC.90815E85@***.net>, L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) ------
> III <----------@***.net> writes:
>
>> I suggest you were not going fast enough to worry about not having
>>brakes as the thirty percent more fatal off road crashes found out when
>>inertial threw them from the road when the ABS released.
>
> when their foot released the pedal when the ABS kicked in and startled them.
The claim from testing wasn't that the noise startled the driver
as much as the excessive wheel turn rates per second scared them
enough to back off the brakes rather than the darn wheel.
Admittedly the ABS on a ZJ is a bit noisier than I'm used to on
more modest vehicles. But highly effective.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
> In article <3FD682CC.90815E85@***.net>, L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) ------
> III <----------@***.net> writes:
>
>> I suggest you were not going fast enough to worry about not having
>>brakes as the thirty percent more fatal off road crashes found out when
>>inertial threw them from the road when the ABS released.
>
> when their foot released the pedal when the ABS kicked in and startled them.
The claim from testing wasn't that the noise startled the driver
as much as the excessive wheel turn rates per second scared them
enough to back off the brakes rather than the darn wheel.
Admittedly the ABS on a ZJ is a bit noisier than I'm used to on
more modest vehicles. But highly effective.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Roughly 12/9/03 20:30, CRWLR's monkeys randomly typed:
> Don't get me wrong, ABS is a great thing to have. But, its main function is
> to maintain directional stability (which you illusatrate very well), even if
> the expense is a possibly longer stopping time and distance. Face it, if the
> choice is sliding sideways down the road, or steerinig around an approaching
> obsticle, I'll take the steering around stuff any day, even if it adds a few
> feet to the stopping distance.
Actually the increased fatality rate from ABS appears to be largely
due to the doofus factor and the increased steering capability.
A sliding wheel is more able to ignore suicidal wheel movements.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
> Don't get me wrong, ABS is a great thing to have. But, its main function is
> to maintain directional stability (which you illusatrate very well), even if
> the expense is a possibly longer stopping time and distance. Face it, if the
> choice is sliding sideways down the road, or steerinig around an approaching
> obsticle, I'll take the steering around stuff any day, even if it adds a few
> feet to the stopping distance.
Actually the increased fatality rate from ABS appears to be largely
due to the doofus factor and the increased steering capability.
A sliding wheel is more able to ignore suicidal wheel movements.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Roughly 12/9/03 20:30, CRWLR's monkeys randomly typed:
> Don't get me wrong, ABS is a great thing to have. But, its main function is
> to maintain directional stability (which you illusatrate very well), even if
> the expense is a possibly longer stopping time and distance. Face it, if the
> choice is sliding sideways down the road, or steerinig around an approaching
> obsticle, I'll take the steering around stuff any day, even if it adds a few
> feet to the stopping distance.
Actually the increased fatality rate from ABS appears to be largely
due to the doofus factor and the increased steering capability.
A sliding wheel is more able to ignore suicidal wheel movements.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
> Don't get me wrong, ABS is a great thing to have. But, its main function is
> to maintain directional stability (which you illusatrate very well), even if
> the expense is a possibly longer stopping time and distance. Face it, if the
> choice is sliding sideways down the road, or steerinig around an approaching
> obsticle, I'll take the steering around stuff any day, even if it adds a few
> feet to the stopping distance.
Actually the increased fatality rate from ABS appears to be largely
due to the doofus factor and the increased steering capability.
A sliding wheel is more able to ignore suicidal wheel movements.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Roughly 12/9/03 20:30, CRWLR's monkeys randomly typed:
> Don't get me wrong, ABS is a great thing to have. But, its main function is
> to maintain directional stability (which you illusatrate very well), even if
> the expense is a possibly longer stopping time and distance. Face it, if the
> choice is sliding sideways down the road, or steerinig around an approaching
> obsticle, I'll take the steering around stuff any day, even if it adds a few
> feet to the stopping distance.
Actually the increased fatality rate from ABS appears to be largely
due to the doofus factor and the increased steering capability.
A sliding wheel is more able to ignore suicidal wheel movements.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
> Don't get me wrong, ABS is a great thing to have. But, its main function is
> to maintain directional stability (which you illusatrate very well), even if
> the expense is a possibly longer stopping time and distance. Face it, if the
> choice is sliding sideways down the road, or steerinig around an approaching
> obsticle, I'll take the steering around stuff any day, even if it adds a few
> feet to the stopping distance.
Actually the increased fatality rate from ABS appears to be largely
due to the doofus factor and the increased steering capability.
A sliding wheel is more able to ignore suicidal wheel movements.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Del:
Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most TJ's,
even without ABS. Try it sometime.
Raise up the rear end. Transfer case in 2-HI, transmission in gear, engine
at idle speed. On my '02 TJ with auto trans and 3.73 rear end, you can mash
the brake pedal with all your might and the rear wheels will still roll,
even with the engine at idle speed. If you apply the parking brake it will
stop the rear wheels easily.
The non-ABS TJ's are designed so that less than 10% (my estimate) of the
braking force goes to the rear wheels. It is actually quite dangerous at
slow speeds on ice or snow. With an auto transmission, you have to get into
the habit of quickly shifting to neutral so the rear wheels don't push you
right through stop signs at icy intersections.
My rear brakes are adjusted, and working properly.
Tom
"Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
news:20031210080208510-0900@news.newsguy.com...
snip>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
snip
Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most TJ's,
even without ABS. Try it sometime.
Raise up the rear end. Transfer case in 2-HI, transmission in gear, engine
at idle speed. On my '02 TJ with auto trans and 3.73 rear end, you can mash
the brake pedal with all your might and the rear wheels will still roll,
even with the engine at idle speed. If you apply the parking brake it will
stop the rear wheels easily.
The non-ABS TJ's are designed so that less than 10% (my estimate) of the
braking force goes to the rear wheels. It is actually quite dangerous at
slow speeds on ice or snow. With an auto transmission, you have to get into
the habit of quickly shifting to neutral so the rear wheels don't push you
right through stop signs at icy intersections.
My rear brakes are adjusted, and working properly.
Tom
"Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
news:20031210080208510-0900@news.newsguy.com...
snip>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
snip
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Del:
Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most TJ's,
even without ABS. Try it sometime.
Raise up the rear end. Transfer case in 2-HI, transmission in gear, engine
at idle speed. On my '02 TJ with auto trans and 3.73 rear end, you can mash
the brake pedal with all your might and the rear wheels will still roll,
even with the engine at idle speed. If you apply the parking brake it will
stop the rear wheels easily.
The non-ABS TJ's are designed so that less than 10% (my estimate) of the
braking force goes to the rear wheels. It is actually quite dangerous at
slow speeds on ice or snow. With an auto transmission, you have to get into
the habit of quickly shifting to neutral so the rear wheels don't push you
right through stop signs at icy intersections.
My rear brakes are adjusted, and working properly.
Tom
"Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
news:20031210080208510-0900@news.newsguy.com...
snip>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
snip
Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most TJ's,
even without ABS. Try it sometime.
Raise up the rear end. Transfer case in 2-HI, transmission in gear, engine
at idle speed. On my '02 TJ with auto trans and 3.73 rear end, you can mash
the brake pedal with all your might and the rear wheels will still roll,
even with the engine at idle speed. If you apply the parking brake it will
stop the rear wheels easily.
The non-ABS TJ's are designed so that less than 10% (my estimate) of the
braking force goes to the rear wheels. It is actually quite dangerous at
slow speeds on ice or snow. With an auto transmission, you have to get into
the habit of quickly shifting to neutral so the rear wheels don't push you
right through stop signs at icy intersections.
My rear brakes are adjusted, and working properly.
Tom
"Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
news:20031210080208510-0900@news.newsguy.com...
snip>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
snip
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Del:
Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most TJ's,
even without ABS. Try it sometime.
Raise up the rear end. Transfer case in 2-HI, transmission in gear, engine
at idle speed. On my '02 TJ with auto trans and 3.73 rear end, you can mash
the brake pedal with all your might and the rear wheels will still roll,
even with the engine at idle speed. If you apply the parking brake it will
stop the rear wheels easily.
The non-ABS TJ's are designed so that less than 10% (my estimate) of the
braking force goes to the rear wheels. It is actually quite dangerous at
slow speeds on ice or snow. With an auto transmission, you have to get into
the habit of quickly shifting to neutral so the rear wheels don't push you
right through stop signs at icy intersections.
My rear brakes are adjusted, and working properly.
Tom
"Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
news:20031210080208510-0900@news.newsguy.com...
snip>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
snip
Mike is correct in that you cannot lock up the rear brakes on most TJ's,
even without ABS. Try it sometime.
Raise up the rear end. Transfer case in 2-HI, transmission in gear, engine
at idle speed. On my '02 TJ with auto trans and 3.73 rear end, you can mash
the brake pedal with all your might and the rear wheels will still roll,
even with the engine at idle speed. If you apply the parking brake it will
stop the rear wheels easily.
The non-ABS TJ's are designed so that less than 10% (my estimate) of the
braking force goes to the rear wheels. It is actually quite dangerous at
slow speeds on ice or snow. With an auto transmission, you have to get into
the habit of quickly shifting to neutral so the rear wheels don't push you
right through stop signs at icy intersections.
My rear brakes are adjusted, and working properly.
Tom
"Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
news:20031210080208510-0900@news.newsguy.com...
snip>
> The proportioning valve is NOT ABS and if you try you can and will lock
> up the rear brakes. The benefit to the valve is that you will generally
> lock up the front wheels first, but not necessarily. It is only a
> passive system, and can't actively modulate pressure to the wheel
> cylinders based on sensor input like ABS does.
>
snip
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Correcto, it was to their prejudices! If the expert driver were me,
I'd expect to get credit. Who were these experts that couldn't out brake
an ABS?????
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...99-01-1287.pdf
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon Stowell wrote:
>
> In other words, the test was scientifically sound as it changed
> just one variable, but wasn't conducted to your personal prejudices?
>
> --
> Fan of the dumbest team in America.
I'd expect to get credit. Who were these experts that couldn't out brake
an ABS?????
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...99-01-1287.pdf
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon Stowell wrote:
>
> In other words, the test was scientifically sound as it changed
> just one variable, but wasn't conducted to your personal prejudices?
>
> --
> Fan of the dumbest team in America.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Correcto, it was to their prejudices! If the expert driver were me,
I'd expect to get credit. Who were these experts that couldn't out brake
an ABS?????
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...99-01-1287.pdf
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon Stowell wrote:
>
> In other words, the test was scientifically sound as it changed
> just one variable, but wasn't conducted to your personal prejudices?
>
> --
> Fan of the dumbest team in America.
I'd expect to get credit. Who were these experts that couldn't out brake
an ABS?????
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...99-01-1287.pdf
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon Stowell wrote:
>
> In other words, the test was scientifically sound as it changed
> just one variable, but wasn't conducted to your personal prejudices?
>
> --
> Fan of the dumbest team in America.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Correcto, it was to their prejudices! If the expert driver were me,
I'd expect to get credit. Who were these experts that couldn't out brake
an ABS?????
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...99-01-1287.pdf
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon Stowell wrote:
>
> In other words, the test was scientifically sound as it changed
> just one variable, but wasn't conducted to your personal prejudices?
>
> --
> Fan of the dumbest team in America.
I'd expect to get credit. Who were these experts that couldn't out brake
an ABS?????
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca...99-01-1287.pdf
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon Stowell wrote:
>
> In other words, the test was scientifically sound as it changed
> just one variable, but wasn't conducted to your personal prejudices?
>
> --
> Fan of the dumbest team in America.
