Mike Romain

I tighten them until they 'just' start to grab, then back them off a
couple clicks.

I don't know about drums and bearings, but I guess once you have them
adjusted and have a good pedal 'feel' you could jack up the front and
reef on the wheel to see if you can get the pedal to change places for
the first pump.

I know it took very little bearing play on mine to make the pad push the
piston back in enough to 'suddenly' drop the pedal down. Drum brakes
could be the same.

Mike

Drink wrote:
>
> I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel bearings
> are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that they're
> "not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off and
> make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand. It's
> not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go outside
> and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
> The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
> fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that air
> would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
> bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
> Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
> P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they should
> exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
> o_o_o_o
> Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> > Just a thought for you.
> >
> > Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> > just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
> >
> > I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> > screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> > keeping the master topped up.
> >
> > That worked great.
> >
> > Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
> >
> > It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought a
> > new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> > scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the rotor
> > to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> > right to the floor.
> >
> > Then the bugger did it again to me.
> >
> > I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
> >
> > Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and I
> > noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The pad
> > had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> > the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed the
> > caliper piston in.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Drink wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
> neglecting
> > > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and understand
> it
> > > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important is
> it
> > > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
> when I
> > > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or ten
> > > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > > >
> > > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > > >
> > > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know they
> > > ougtta
> > > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard brakes
> and
> > > 11"
> > > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and, "whoosh",
> the
> > > pedal
> > > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but would
> > > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
> fluid
> > > but
> > > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
> cylinder
> > > went
> > > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and even
> > > replaced
> > > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still, the
> > > brakes
> > > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump. What's
> > > keeping
> > > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
> (pumped
> > > a
> > > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a year
> old.
> > > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the shoes
> > > again?
> > > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Drink

Okay, I guess I could just quietly slink away but I'm gonna self-identify
for the benefit of those who might've fallen into the same bad habit. I
adjusted the brake shoes from the access slot, with a proper tool, like I
should've and found that three of the four star wheel adjusters were about
two full turns loose. My technique of hand adjusting with the wheel off is
lacking and the brakes are much better. It'll do in a pinch or where you
just don't have time to get it fine-tuned but it's not good enough.
I, like some of the men on this group, can work on my Jeep by feel, sound
or eyeball. Hell, after almost 14 years, I've turned almost every bolt, run
every wire or gone behind every cover in this thing. I can literally do
some jobs with my eyes closed, having worked into the night so many times.
But, every once in a while, I get pimp-slapped by the facts and learn that
the best way is always the right way.
What was it Fat Albert said? "And if you sit back and listen, you just
might learn somethin' Hey! Hey! Hey!"
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402FACEA.3CA39172@sympatico.ca...
> I tighten them until they 'just' start to grab, then back them off a
> couple clicks.
>
> I don't know about drums and bearings, but I guess once you have them
> adjusted and have a good pedal 'feel' you could jack up the front and
> reef on the wheel to see if you can get the pedal to change places for
> the first pump.
>
> I know it took very little bearing play on mine to make the pad push the
> piston back in enough to 'suddenly' drop the pedal down. Drum brakes
> could be the same.
>
> Mike
>
> Drink wrote:
> >
> > I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel
bearings
> > are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that
they're
> > "not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off
and
> > make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand.
It's
> > not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go
outside
> > and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
> > The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
> > fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that
air
> > would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
> > bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
> > Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
> > P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they
should
> > exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
> > o_o_o_o
> > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> > > Just a thought for you.
> > >
> > > Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> > > just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
> > >
> > > I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> > > screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> > > keeping the master topped up.
> > >
> > > That worked great.
> > >
> > > Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
> > >
> > > It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought
a
> > > new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> > > scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the
rotor
> > > to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> > > right to the floor.
> > >
> > > Then the bugger did it again to me.
> > >
> > > I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
> > >
> > > Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and
I
> > > noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The
pad
> > > had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> > > the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed
the
> > > caliper piston in.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Drink wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
> > neglecting
> > > > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and
understand
> > it
> > > > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important
is
> > it
> > > > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
> > when I
> > > > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or
ten
> > > > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > > > >
> > > > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know
they
> > > > ougtta
> > > > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard
brakes
> > and
> > > > 11"
> > > > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and,
"whoosh",
> > the
> > > > pedal
> > > > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but
would
> > > > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
> > fluid
> > > > but
> > > > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
> > cylinder
> > > > went
> > > > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and
even
> > > > replaced
> > > > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still,
the
> > > > brakes
> > > > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump.
What's
> > > > keeping
> > > > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
> > (pumped
> > > > a
> > > > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a
year
> > old.
> > > > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the
shoes
> > > > again?
> > > > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Drink

Okay, I guess I could just quietly slink away but I'm gonna self-identify
for the benefit of those who might've fallen into the same bad habit. I
adjusted the brake shoes from the access slot, with a proper tool, like I
should've and found that three of the four star wheel adjusters were about
two full turns loose. My technique of hand adjusting with the wheel off is
lacking and the brakes are much better. It'll do in a pinch or where you
just don't have time to get it fine-tuned but it's not good enough.
I, like some of the men on this group, can work on my Jeep by feel, sound
or eyeball. Hell, after almost 14 years, I've turned almost every bolt, run
every wire or gone behind every cover in this thing. I can literally do
some jobs with my eyes closed, having worked into the night so many times.
But, every once in a while, I get pimp-slapped by the facts and learn that
the best way is always the right way.
What was it Fat Albert said? "And if you sit back and listen, you just
might learn somethin' Hey! Hey! Hey!"
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402FACEA.3CA39172@sympatico.ca...
> I tighten them until they 'just' start to grab, then back them off a
> couple clicks.
>
> I don't know about drums and bearings, but I guess once you have them
> adjusted and have a good pedal 'feel' you could jack up the front and
> reef on the wheel to see if you can get the pedal to change places for
> the first pump.
>
> I know it took very little bearing play on mine to make the pad push the
> piston back in enough to 'suddenly' drop the pedal down. Drum brakes
> could be the same.
>
> Mike
>
> Drink wrote:
> >
> > I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel
bearings
> > are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that
they're
> > "not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off
and
> > make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand.
It's
> > not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go
outside
> > and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
> > The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
> > fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that
air
> > would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
> > bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
> > Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
> > P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they
should
> > exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
> > o_o_o_o
> > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> > > Just a thought for you.
> > >
> > > Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> > > just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
> > >
> > > I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> > > screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> > > keeping the master topped up.
> > >
> > > That worked great.
> > >
> > > Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
> > >
> > > It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought
a
> > > new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> > > scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the
rotor
> > > to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> > > right to the floor.
> > >
> > > Then the bugger did it again to me.
> > >
> > > I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
> > >
> > > Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and
I
> > > noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The
pad
> > > had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> > > the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed
the
> > > caliper piston in.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Drink wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
> > neglecting
> > > > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and
understand
> > it
> > > > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important
is
> > it
> > > > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
> > when I
> > > > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or
ten
> > > > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > > > >
> > > > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know
they
> > > > ougtta
> > > > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard
brakes
> > and
> > > > 11"
> > > > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and,
"whoosh",
> > the
> > > > pedal
> > > > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but
would
> > > > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
> > fluid
> > > > but
> > > > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
> > cylinder
> > > > went
> > > > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and
even
> > > > replaced
> > > > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still,
the
> > > > brakes
> > > > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump.
What's
> > > > keeping
> > > > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
> > (pumped
> > > > a
> > > > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a
year
> > old.
> > > > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the
shoes
> > > > again?
> > > > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Drink

Okay, I guess I could just quietly slink away but I'm gonna self-identify
for the benefit of those who might've fallen into the same bad habit. I
adjusted the brake shoes from the access slot, with a proper tool, like I
should've and found that three of the four star wheel adjusters were about
two full turns loose. My technique of hand adjusting with the wheel off is
lacking and the brakes are much better. It'll do in a pinch or where you
just don't have time to get it fine-tuned but it's not good enough.
I, like some of the men on this group, can work on my Jeep by feel, sound
or eyeball. Hell, after almost 14 years, I've turned almost every bolt, run
every wire or gone behind every cover in this thing. I can literally do
some jobs with my eyes closed, having worked into the night so many times.
But, every once in a while, I get pimp-slapped by the facts and learn that
the best way is always the right way.
What was it Fat Albert said? "And if you sit back and listen, you just
might learn somethin' Hey! Hey! Hey!"
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402FACEA.3CA39172@sympatico.ca...
> I tighten them until they 'just' start to grab, then back them off a
> couple clicks.
>
> I don't know about drums and bearings, but I guess once you have them
> adjusted and have a good pedal 'feel' you could jack up the front and
> reef on the wheel to see if you can get the pedal to change places for
> the first pump.
>
> I know it took very little bearing play on mine to make the pad push the
> piston back in enough to 'suddenly' drop the pedal down. Drum brakes
> could be the same.
>
> Mike
>
> Drink wrote:
> >
> > I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel
bearings
> > are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that
they're
> > "not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off
and
> > make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand.
It's
> > not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go
outside
> > and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
> > The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
> > fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that
air
> > would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
> > bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
> > Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
> > P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they
should
> > exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
> > o_o_o_o
> > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> > > Just a thought for you.
> > >
> > > Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> > > just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
> > >
> > > I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> > > screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> > > keeping the master topped up.
> > >
> > > That worked great.
> > >
> > > Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
> > >
> > > It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought
a
> > > new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> > > scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the
rotor
> > > to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> > > right to the floor.
> > >
> > > Then the bugger did it again to me.
> > >
> > > I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
> > >
> > > Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and
I
> > > noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The
pad
> > > had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> > > the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed
the
> > > caliper piston in.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Drink wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
> > neglecting
> > > > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and
understand
> > it
> > > > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important
is
> > it
> > > > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
> > when I
> > > > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or
ten
> > > > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > > > >
> > > > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know
they
> > > > ougtta
> > > > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard
brakes
> > and
> > > > 11"
> > > > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and,
"whoosh",
> > the
> > > > pedal
> > > > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but
would
> > > > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
> > fluid
> > > > but
> > > > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
> > cylinder
> > > > went
> > > > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and
even
> > > > replaced
> > > > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still,
the
> > > > brakes
> > > > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump.
What's
> > > > keeping
> > > > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
> > (pumped
> > > > a
> > > > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a
year
> > old.
> > > > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the
shoes
> > > > again?
> > > > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

DougW

Drink did pass the time by typing:
> Okay, I guess I could just quietly slink away but I'm gonna self-identify
> for the benefit of those who might've fallen into the same bad habit. I
> adjusted the brake shoes from the access slot, with a proper tool, like I
> should've and found that three of the four star wheel adjusters were about
> two full turns loose. My technique of hand adjusting with the wheel off is
> lacking and the brakes are much better. It'll do in a pinch or where you
> just don't have time to get it fine-tuned but it's not good enough.

I just adjust the star to the point where the drums will not slide on then
back off just enough to get them to go. Keeping in mind that if you have
a lip around the brake drum you will still be out.

They make a tool for getting the right adjustment.
Mine was plastic and got smashed or I'd put up a photo.
You set one side to the maximum diameter in the drum and
the other gave you a guide to set the pads with.

Ahhah.. found it
http://www.handsontools.com/store/sh...roduct_id=2866

--
DougW

DougW

Drink did pass the time by typing:
> Okay, I guess I could just quietly slink away but I'm gonna self-identify
> for the benefit of those who might've fallen into the same bad habit. I
> adjusted the brake shoes from the access slot, with a proper tool, like I
> should've and found that three of the four star wheel adjusters were about
> two full turns loose. My technique of hand adjusting with the wheel off is
> lacking and the brakes are much better. It'll do in a pinch or where you
> just don't have time to get it fine-tuned but it's not good enough.

I just adjust the star to the point where the drums will not slide on then
back off just enough to get them to go. Keeping in mind that if you have
a lip around the brake drum you will still be out.

They make a tool for getting the right adjustment.
Mine was plastic and got smashed or I'd put up a photo.
You set one side to the maximum diameter in the drum and
the other gave you a guide to set the pads with.

Ahhah.. found it
http://www.handsontools.com/store/sh...roduct_id=2866

--
DougW

DougW

Drink did pass the time by typing:
> Okay, I guess I could just quietly slink away but I'm gonna self-identify
> for the benefit of those who might've fallen into the same bad habit. I
> adjusted the brake shoes from the access slot, with a proper tool, like I
> should've and found that three of the four star wheel adjusters were about
> two full turns loose. My technique of hand adjusting with the wheel off is
> lacking and the brakes are much better. It'll do in a pinch or where you
> just don't have time to get it fine-tuned but it's not good enough.

I just adjust the star to the point where the drums will not slide on then
back off just enough to get them to go. Keeping in mind that if you have
a lip around the brake drum you will still be out.

They make a tool for getting the right adjustment.
Mine was plastic and got smashed or I'd put up a photo.
You set one side to the maximum diameter in the drum and
the other gave you a guide to set the pads with.

Ahhah.. found it
http://www.handsontools.com/store/sh...roduct_id=2866

--
DougW

Mike Romain

LOL!

Don't feel too bad, I got dinged the same way a bit ago which is why I
mentioned about the adjuster needing to be right up for the self
adjuster to go for it...

Like if you put the adjuster arm on the star wheel without having a
bunch of tension on it and install the drum, the cable falls off the
angle track at the half way point and the adjustment goes slack and
won't self adjust.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Drink wrote:
>
> Okay, I guess I could just quietly slink away but I'm gonna self-identify
> for the benefit of those who might've fallen into the same bad habit. I
> adjusted the brake shoes from the access slot, with a proper tool, like I
> should've and found that three of the four star wheel adjusters were about
> two full turns loose. My technique of hand adjusting with the wheel off is
> lacking and the brakes are much better. It'll do in a pinch or where you
> just don't have time to get it fine-tuned but it's not good enough.
> I, like some of the men on this group, can work on my Jeep by feel, sound
> or eyeball. Hell, after almost 14 years, I've turned almost every bolt, run
> every wire or gone behind every cover in this thing. I can literally do
> some jobs with my eyes closed, having worked into the night so many times.
> But, every once in a while, I get pimp-slapped by the facts and learn that
> the best way is always the right way.
> What was it Fat Albert said? "And if you sit back and listen, you just
> might learn somethin' Hey! Hey! Hey!"
> o_o_o_o
> Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402FACEA.3CA39172@sympatico.ca...
> > I tighten them until they 'just' start to grab, then back them off a
> > couple clicks.
> >
> > I don't know about drums and bearings, but I guess once you have them
> > adjusted and have a good pedal 'feel' you could jack up the front and
> > reef on the wheel to see if you can get the pedal to change places for
> > the first pump.
> >
> > I know it took very little bearing play on mine to make the pad push the
> > piston back in enough to 'suddenly' drop the pedal down. Drum brakes
> > could be the same.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Drink wrote:
> > >
> > > I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel
> bearings
> > > are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that
> they're
> > > "not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off
> and
> > > make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand.
> It's
> > > not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go
> outside
> > > and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
> > > The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
> > > fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that
> air
> > > would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
> > > bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
> > > Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
> > > P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they
> should
> > > exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Just a thought for you.
> > > >
> > > > Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> > > > just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
> > > >
> > > > I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> > > > screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> > > > keeping the master topped up.
> > > >
> > > > That worked great.
> > > >
> > > > Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
> > > >
> > > > It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought
> a
> > > > new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> > > > scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the
> rotor
> > > > to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> > > > right to the floor.
> > > >
> > > > Then the bugger did it again to me.
> > > >
> > > > I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
> > > >
> > > > Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and
> I
> > > > noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The
> pad
> > > > had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> > > > the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed
> the
> > > > caliper piston in.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
> > > neglecting
> > > > > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and
> understand
> > > it
> > > > > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important
> is
> > > it
> > > > > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
> > > when I
> > > > > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or
> ten
> > > > > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > > > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > > > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know
> they
> > > > > ougtta
> > > > > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard
> brakes
> > > and
> > > > > 11"
> > > > > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and,
> "whoosh",
> > > the
> > > > > pedal
> > > > > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but
> would
> > > > > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
> > > fluid
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
> > > cylinder
> > > > > went
> > > > > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and
> even
> > > > > replaced
> > > > > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still,
> the
> > > > > brakes
> > > > > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump.
> What's
> > > > > keeping
> > > > > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
> > > (pumped
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a
> year
> > > old.
> > > > > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the
> shoes
> > > > > again?
> > > > > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Mike Romain

LOL!

Don't feel too bad, I got dinged the same way a bit ago which is why I
mentioned about the adjuster needing to be right up for the self
adjuster to go for it...

Like if you put the adjuster arm on the star wheel without having a
bunch of tension on it and install the drum, the cable falls off the
angle track at the half way point and the adjustment goes slack and
won't self adjust.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Drink wrote:
>
> Okay, I guess I could just quietly slink away but I'm gonna self-identify
> for the benefit of those who might've fallen into the same bad habit. I
> adjusted the brake shoes from the access slot, with a proper tool, like I
> should've and found that three of the four star wheel adjusters were about
> two full turns loose. My technique of hand adjusting with the wheel off is
> lacking and the brakes are much better. It'll do in a pinch or where you
> just don't have time to get it fine-tuned but it's not good enough.
> I, like some of the men on this group, can work on my Jeep by feel, sound
> or eyeball. Hell, after almost 14 years, I've turned almost every bolt, run
> every wire or gone behind every cover in this thing. I can literally do
> some jobs with my eyes closed, having worked into the night so many times.
> But, every once in a while, I get pimp-slapped by the facts and learn that
> the best way is always the right way.
> What was it Fat Albert said? "And if you sit back and listen, you just
> might learn somethin' Hey! Hey! Hey!"
> o_o_o_o
> Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402FACEA.3CA39172@sympatico.ca...
> > I tighten them until they 'just' start to grab, then back them off a
> > couple clicks.
> >
> > I don't know about drums and bearings, but I guess once you have them
> > adjusted and have a good pedal 'feel' you could jack up the front and
> > reef on the wheel to see if you can get the pedal to change places for
> > the first pump.
> >
> > I know it took very little bearing play on mine to make the pad push the
> > piston back in enough to 'suddenly' drop the pedal down. Drum brakes
> > could be the same.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Drink wrote:
> > >
> > > I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel
> bearings
> > > are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that
> they're
> > > "not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off
> and
> > > make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand.
> It's
> > > not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go
> outside
> > > and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
> > > The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
> > > fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that
> air
> > > would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
> > > bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
> > > Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
> > > P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they
> should
> > > exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Just a thought for you.
> > > >
> > > > Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> > > > just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
> > > >
> > > > I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> > > > screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> > > > keeping the master topped up.
> > > >
> > > > That worked great.
> > > >
> > > > Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
> > > >
> > > > It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought
> a
> > > > new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> > > > scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the
> rotor
> > > > to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> > > > right to the floor.
> > > >
> > > > Then the bugger did it again to me.
> > > >
> > > > I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
> > > >
> > > > Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and
> I
> > > > noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The
> pad
> > > > had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> > > > the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed
> the
> > > > caliper piston in.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
> > > neglecting
> > > > > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and
> understand
> > > it
> > > > > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important
> is
> > > it
> > > > > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
> > > when I
> > > > > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or
> ten
> > > > > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > > > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > > > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know
> they
> > > > > ougtta
> > > > > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard
> brakes
> > > and
> > > > > 11"
> > > > > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and,
> "whoosh",
> > > the
> > > > > pedal
> > > > > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but
> would
> > > > > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
> > > fluid
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
> > > cylinder
> > > > > went
> > > > > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and
> even
> > > > > replaced
> > > > > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still,
> the
> > > > > brakes
> > > > > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump.
> What's
> > > > > keeping
> > > > > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
> > > (pumped
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a
> year
> > > old.
> > > > > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the
> shoes
> > > > > again?
> > > > > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Mike Romain

LOL!

Don't feel too bad, I got dinged the same way a bit ago which is why I
mentioned about the adjuster needing to be right up for the self
adjuster to go for it...

Like if you put the adjuster arm on the star wheel without having a
bunch of tension on it and install the drum, the cable falls off the
angle track at the half way point and the adjustment goes slack and
won't self adjust.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Drink wrote:
>
> Okay, I guess I could just quietly slink away but I'm gonna self-identify
> for the benefit of those who might've fallen into the same bad habit. I
> adjusted the brake shoes from the access slot, with a proper tool, like I
> should've and found that three of the four star wheel adjusters were about
> two full turns loose. My technique of hand adjusting with the wheel off is
> lacking and the brakes are much better. It'll do in a pinch or where you
> just don't have time to get it fine-tuned but it's not good enough.
> I, like some of the men on this group, can work on my Jeep by feel, sound
> or eyeball. Hell, after almost 14 years, I've turned almost every bolt, run
> every wire or gone behind every cover in this thing. I can literally do
> some jobs with my eyes closed, having worked into the night so many times.
> But, every once in a while, I get pimp-slapped by the facts and learn that
> the best way is always the right way.
> What was it Fat Albert said? "And if you sit back and listen, you just
> might learn somethin' Hey! Hey! Hey!"
> o_o_o_o
> Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402FACEA.3CA39172@sympatico.ca...
> > I tighten them until they 'just' start to grab, then back them off a
> > couple clicks.
> >
> > I don't know about drums and bearings, but I guess once you have them
> > adjusted and have a good pedal 'feel' you could jack up the front and
> > reef on the wheel to see if you can get the pedal to change places for
> > the first pump.
> >
> > I know it took very little bearing play on mine to make the pad push the
> > piston back in enough to 'suddenly' drop the pedal down. Drum brakes
> > could be the same.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Drink wrote:
> > >
> > > I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel
> bearings
> > > are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that
> they're
> > > "not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off
> and
> > > make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand.
> It's
> > > not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go
> outside
> > > and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
> > > The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
> > > fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that
> air
> > > would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
> > > bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
> > > Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
> > > P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they
> should
> > > exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Just a thought for you.
> > > >
> > > > Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> > > > just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
> > > >
> > > > I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> > > > screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> > > > keeping the master topped up.
> > > >
> > > > That worked great.
> > > >
> > > > Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
> > > >
> > > > It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought
> a
> > > > new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> > > > scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the
> rotor
> > > > to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> > > > right to the floor.
> > > >
> > > > Then the bugger did it again to me.
> > > >
> > > > I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
> > > >
> > > > Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and
> I
> > > > noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The
> pad
> > > > had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> > > > the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed
> the
> > > > caliper piston in.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
> > > neglecting
> > > > > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and
> understand
> > > it
> > > > > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important
> is
> > > it
> > > > > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
> > > when I
> > > > > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or
> ten
> > > > > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > > > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > > > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know
> they
> > > > > ougtta
> > > > > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard
> brakes
> > > and
> > > > > 11"
> > > > > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and,
> "whoosh",
> > > the
> > > > > pedal
> > > > > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but
> would
> > > > > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
> > > fluid
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
> > > cylinder
> > > > > went
> > > > > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and
> even
> > > > > replaced
> > > > > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still,
> the
> > > > > brakes
> > > > > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump.
> What's
> > > > > keeping
> > > > > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
> > > (pumped
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a
> year
> > > old.
> > > > > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the
> shoes
> > > > > again?
> > > > > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W