Lug nut torque & warped rotors
01-08-2006, 06:35 PM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lug nut torque & warped rotors
The rotors on your GC are made from two parts, the rotor, and the "hat". The
hat is the part of the rotor that the wheel studs go through and your wheels
bolt to. Further, the hat of the rotor rests flat against the wheel hub
assembly, and you'll not warp that with 250ft. lbs of torque, much less the
125 you specified finding. The hat uses a different type of metal from the
metal in the rotor, specifically to keep lug nut torque from being an issue
with the rotors.
Jeep changed over to this type of rotor during the first series of GC and
has used them since.
Lug nut torque was not the cause of the warpage on your rotors, hasn't been
an issue in brake rotor warpage for years, but the general public won't let
go of the idea.
The tire installer is not to blame.
The rotors being too thin to start with, along with driving habits, stop and
go or city driving, and overdriving the brakes (driving too fast, stopping
at the last moment) are the most often the cause of brake pulsations, like
it or not.
The variations in lug nut torque are not out of line in the real world,
rust, contamination, imperfect threads, grease, and dirt all affect the
torque of the lug nuts. In perfect, laboratory conditions, with perfectly
clean studs and nuts, lightly oiled, and a perfectly calibrated torque
wrench, you might get 'em close, but that's not the real world.
By the way, with aluminum or magnesium wheels, lug nuts should be retorqued
after driving 50 to 100 miles. ALWAYS.
Spdloader
"klutz" <klutz@klutzville.net> wrote in message
news:Azdwf.8592$V.4423@fed1read04...
> My wife's 2003 Grand Cherokee fell victim to warped rotors, but after
> completing the repairs, I'm surmising that her driving style didn't cause
> the problem. While removing the lug nuts with a breaker bar, I felt a
> disparity in the effort required to loosen them. Hmmm. That can't be
> good. I wondered what the torque was on the other wheel, so I used a
> torque wrench to loosen the lugs. Torque varied from 80 to 125 lb/ft on
> the R/F wheel! Just for safety's sake, I checked the rear wheels. Same
> sad shape. Torque was all over the map. Moral of the story - when the
> dealer is doing warranty work (power window) and asks if you want your
> tires rotated - tell 'em "No, thanks" - unless you can oversee the job.
> Incidentally, the old rotors and pads had 29,000 miles and wore evenly,
> with no glazing or hot spots. The pads have 5/16 of friction material
> left. My money says that the dealer's tire-jockey has caused me (and
> likely many others) to suffer from warped rotors. Intentionally, perhaps?
> Hard to prove. Word to the wise - the 2003 WJ has rotors made of soft
> cast iron. Inattention to wheel torque can destroy them in a heartbeat.
>
hat is the part of the rotor that the wheel studs go through and your wheels
bolt to. Further, the hat of the rotor rests flat against the wheel hub
assembly, and you'll not warp that with 250ft. lbs of torque, much less the
125 you specified finding. The hat uses a different type of metal from the
metal in the rotor, specifically to keep lug nut torque from being an issue
with the rotors.
Jeep changed over to this type of rotor during the first series of GC and
has used them since.
Lug nut torque was not the cause of the warpage on your rotors, hasn't been
an issue in brake rotor warpage for years, but the general public won't let
go of the idea.
The tire installer is not to blame.
The rotors being too thin to start with, along with driving habits, stop and
go or city driving, and overdriving the brakes (driving too fast, stopping
at the last moment) are the most often the cause of brake pulsations, like
it or not.
The variations in lug nut torque are not out of line in the real world,
rust, contamination, imperfect threads, grease, and dirt all affect the
torque of the lug nuts. In perfect, laboratory conditions, with perfectly
clean studs and nuts, lightly oiled, and a perfectly calibrated torque
wrench, you might get 'em close, but that's not the real world.
By the way, with aluminum or magnesium wheels, lug nuts should be retorqued
after driving 50 to 100 miles. ALWAYS.
Spdloader
"klutz" <klutz@klutzville.net> wrote in message
news:Azdwf.8592$V.4423@fed1read04...
> My wife's 2003 Grand Cherokee fell victim to warped rotors, but after
> completing the repairs, I'm surmising that her driving style didn't cause
> the problem. While removing the lug nuts with a breaker bar, I felt a
> disparity in the effort required to loosen them. Hmmm. That can't be
> good. I wondered what the torque was on the other wheel, so I used a
> torque wrench to loosen the lugs. Torque varied from 80 to 125 lb/ft on
> the R/F wheel! Just for safety's sake, I checked the rear wheels. Same
> sad shape. Torque was all over the map. Moral of the story - when the
> dealer is doing warranty work (power window) and asks if you want your
> tires rotated - tell 'em "No, thanks" - unless you can oversee the job.
> Incidentally, the old rotors and pads had 29,000 miles and wore evenly,
> with no glazing or hot spots. The pads have 5/16 of friction material
> left. My money says that the dealer's tire-jockey has caused me (and
> likely many others) to suffer from warped rotors. Intentionally, perhaps?
> Hard to prove. Word to the wise - the 2003 WJ has rotors made of soft
> cast iron. Inattention to wheel torque can destroy them in a heartbeat.
>
01-08-2006, 07:00 PM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lug nut torque & warped rotors
Many times a loose lug will peen on, and gull the threads coming
off.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> 125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>
> Earle
> still top-posting
off.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> 125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>
> Earle
> still top-posting
01-08-2006, 07:00 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lug nut torque & warped rotors
Many times a loose lug will peen on, and gull the threads coming
off.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> 125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>
> Earle
> still top-posting
off.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> 125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>
> Earle
> still top-posting
01-08-2006, 07:00 PM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lug nut torque & warped rotors
Many times a loose lug will peen on, and gull the threads coming
off.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> 125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>
> Earle
> still top-posting
off.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> 125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>
> Earle
> still top-posting
01-08-2006, 07:01 PM
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lug nut torque & warped rotors
Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matthew Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> But the torque for each lug nut should be the same, whether it's 85 or 115.
> It's such a known issue that uneven lug torque causes warped rotors that
> most likely it was caused by the last person to work on them.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matthew Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> But the torque for each lug nut should be the same, whether it's 85 or 115.
> It's such a known issue that uneven lug torque causes warped rotors that
> most likely it was caused by the last person to work on them.
01-08-2006, 07:01 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lug nut torque & warped rotors
Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matthew Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> But the torque for each lug nut should be the same, whether it's 85 or 115.
> It's such a known issue that uneven lug torque causes warped rotors that
> most likely it was caused by the last person to work on them.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matthew Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> But the torque for each lug nut should be the same, whether it's 85 or 115.
> It's such a known issue that uneven lug torque causes warped rotors that
> most likely it was caused by the last person to work on them.
01-08-2006, 07:01 PM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lug nut torque & warped rotors
Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matthew Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> But the torque for each lug nut should be the same, whether it's 85 or 115.
> It's such a known issue that uneven lug torque causes warped rotors that
> most likely it was caused by the last person to work on them.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matthew Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> But the torque for each lug nut should be the same, whether it's 85 or 115.
> It's such a known issue that uneven lug torque causes warped rotors that
> most likely it was caused by the last person to work on them.
01-08-2006, 07:49 PM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lug nut torque & warped rotors
Even the local tire discounters only use torque sticks to get them close
and then a hand torque wrench for final tighten... in a star pattern
even. If a particular torque stick or wrench is off calibration it
would not produce such widely varying values, it would just produce
values off from absolute torque but a heck of a lot closer to relative
torque. Unless they also lubed the things.
Will Honea proclaimed:
> Problem isn't the actual torque so much as the differential torque
> between the lugnuts. Just to keep it simple, I tell my kids and the
> tire jockies doing any work on mine that 100 ft-lbs +- nothing is the
> number I want used. I've won several free rotations and even an
> alignment betting shop owners that their magic torque sticks on the
> air wrench cannot set the torque on any wheel to be within 10% on a
> 5-lug wheel.
>
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 21:17:47 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I hate to be Devil's Advocate here, but 80-125 quoted by the original poster
>>is not too far from 85-115. Perhaps the rotors warped due to some other
>>cause, and he is seeing the result in disparity of the effort required to
>>loosen the lug nuts. In the ideal world you would want to use a star
>>pattern and a torque wrench. In the real world you want to get the wheels
>>on and the vehicle out of the shop as soon as possible. It is impossible to
>>say what they do in that shop, unless you work there, or are a lawyer who
>>has received a lot of complaints about them.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>>"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>>news:517ca$43c16e58$4831b233$4075@FUSE.NET...
>>
>>>WJs - 85-115 ft lbs
>>>
>>>"Earle Horton" <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>news:43c16c2c$0$10319$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanew s.com...
>>>
>>>>125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>>>>
>>>>Earle
>>>>still top-posting
>>>>
>>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>>news:43C167A1.9609B3E4@sympatico.ca...
>>>>
>>>>>It is well known enough that it had to be done on purpose by the
>>>>>$tealer.
>>>>>
>>>>>I most certainly would bring the invoice with the mileage on it back to
>>>>>the $tealer and be wanting free rotors, if not the install too.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>>>
>>>>>klutz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>My wife's 2003 Grand Cherokee fell victim to warped rotors, but after
>>>>>>completing the repairs, I'm surmising that her driving style didn't
>>>>
>>>>cause
>>>>
>>>>>>the problem. While removing the lug nuts with a breaker bar, I felt
>>
>>a
>>
>>>>>>disparity in the effort required to loosen them. Hmmm. That can't
>>
>>be
>>
>>>>good.
>>>>
>>>>>>I wondered what the torque was on the other wheel, so I used a torque
>>
>>>>wrench
>>>>
>>>>>>to loosen the lugs. Torque varied from 80 to 125 lb/ft on the R/F
>>>>
>>>>wheel!
>>>>
>>>>>>Just for safety's sake, I checked the rear wheels. Same sad shape.
>>>>
>>>>Torque
>>>>
>>>>>>was all over the map. Moral of the story - when the dealer is doing
>>>>>>warranty work (power window) and asks if you want your tires
>>
>>rotated -
>>
>>>>tell
>>>>
>>>>>>'em "No, thanks" - unless you can oversee the job. Incidentally, the
>>>>
>>>>old
>>>>
>>>>>>rotors and pads had 29,000 miles and wore evenly, with no glazing or
>>>>>>hot
>>>>>>spots. The pads have 5/16 of friction material left. My money says
>>>>
>>>>that
>>>>
>>>>>>the dealer's tire-jockey has caused me (and likely many others) to
>>>>
>>>>suffer
>>>>
>>>>>>from warped rotors. Intentionally, perhaps? Hard to prove. Word to
>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>>wise - the 2003 WJ has rotors made of soft cast iron. Inattention to
>>>>
>>>>wheel
>>>>
>>>>>>torque can destroy them in a heartbeat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
and then a hand torque wrench for final tighten... in a star pattern
even. If a particular torque stick or wrench is off calibration it
would not produce such widely varying values, it would just produce
values off from absolute torque but a heck of a lot closer to relative
torque. Unless they also lubed the things.
Will Honea proclaimed:
> Problem isn't the actual torque so much as the differential torque
> between the lugnuts. Just to keep it simple, I tell my kids and the
> tire jockies doing any work on mine that 100 ft-lbs +- nothing is the
> number I want used. I've won several free rotations and even an
> alignment betting shop owners that their magic torque sticks on the
> air wrench cannot set the torque on any wheel to be within 10% on a
> 5-lug wheel.
>
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 21:17:47 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I hate to be Devil's Advocate here, but 80-125 quoted by the original poster
>>is not too far from 85-115. Perhaps the rotors warped due to some other
>>cause, and he is seeing the result in disparity of the effort required to
>>loosen the lug nuts. In the ideal world you would want to use a star
>>pattern and a torque wrench. In the real world you want to get the wheels
>>on and the vehicle out of the shop as soon as possible. It is impossible to
>>say what they do in that shop, unless you work there, or are a lawyer who
>>has received a lot of complaints about them.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>>"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>>news:517ca$43c16e58$4831b233$4075@FUSE.NET...
>>
>>>WJs - 85-115 ft lbs
>>>
>>>"Earle Horton" <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>news:43c16c2c$0$10319$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanew s.com...
>>>
>>>>125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>>>>
>>>>Earle
>>>>still top-posting
>>>>
>>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>>news:43C167A1.9609B3E4@sympatico.ca...
>>>>
>>>>>It is well known enough that it had to be done on purpose by the
>>>>>$tealer.
>>>>>
>>>>>I most certainly would bring the invoice with the mileage on it back to
>>>>>the $tealer and be wanting free rotors, if not the install too.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>>>
>>>>>klutz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>My wife's 2003 Grand Cherokee fell victim to warped rotors, but after
>>>>>>completing the repairs, I'm surmising that her driving style didn't
>>>>
>>>>cause
>>>>
>>>>>>the problem. While removing the lug nuts with a breaker bar, I felt
>>
>>a
>>
>>>>>>disparity in the effort required to loosen them. Hmmm. That can't
>>
>>be
>>
>>>>good.
>>>>
>>>>>>I wondered what the torque was on the other wheel, so I used a torque
>>
>>>>wrench
>>>>
>>>>>>to loosen the lugs. Torque varied from 80 to 125 lb/ft on the R/F
>>>>
>>>>wheel!
>>>>
>>>>>>Just for safety's sake, I checked the rear wheels. Same sad shape.
>>>>
>>>>Torque
>>>>
>>>>>>was all over the map. Moral of the story - when the dealer is doing
>>>>>>warranty work (power window) and asks if you want your tires
>>
>>rotated -
>>
>>>>tell
>>>>
>>>>>>'em "No, thanks" - unless you can oversee the job. Incidentally, the
>>>>
>>>>old
>>>>
>>>>>>rotors and pads had 29,000 miles and wore evenly, with no glazing or
>>>>>>hot
>>>>>>spots. The pads have 5/16 of friction material left. My money says
>>>>
>>>>that
>>>>
>>>>>>the dealer's tire-jockey has caused me (and likely many others) to
>>>>
>>>>suffer
>>>>
>>>>>>from warped rotors. Intentionally, perhaps? Hard to prove. Word to
>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>>wise - the 2003 WJ has rotors made of soft cast iron. Inattention to
>>>>
>>>>wheel
>>>>
>>>>>>torque can destroy them in a heartbeat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
01-08-2006, 07:49 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lug nut torque & warped rotors
Even the local tire discounters only use torque sticks to get them close
and then a hand torque wrench for final tighten... in a star pattern
even. If a particular torque stick or wrench is off calibration it
would not produce such widely varying values, it would just produce
values off from absolute torque but a heck of a lot closer to relative
torque. Unless they also lubed the things.
Will Honea proclaimed:
> Problem isn't the actual torque so much as the differential torque
> between the lugnuts. Just to keep it simple, I tell my kids and the
> tire jockies doing any work on mine that 100 ft-lbs +- nothing is the
> number I want used. I've won several free rotations and even an
> alignment betting shop owners that their magic torque sticks on the
> air wrench cannot set the torque on any wheel to be within 10% on a
> 5-lug wheel.
>
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 21:17:47 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I hate to be Devil's Advocate here, but 80-125 quoted by the original poster
>>is not too far from 85-115. Perhaps the rotors warped due to some other
>>cause, and he is seeing the result in disparity of the effort required to
>>loosen the lug nuts. In the ideal world you would want to use a star
>>pattern and a torque wrench. In the real world you want to get the wheels
>>on and the vehicle out of the shop as soon as possible. It is impossible to
>>say what they do in that shop, unless you work there, or are a lawyer who
>>has received a lot of complaints about them.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>>"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>>news:517ca$43c16e58$4831b233$4075@FUSE.NET...
>>
>>>WJs - 85-115 ft lbs
>>>
>>>"Earle Horton" <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>news:43c16c2c$0$10319$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanew s.com...
>>>
>>>>125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>>>>
>>>>Earle
>>>>still top-posting
>>>>
>>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>>news:43C167A1.9609B3E4@sympatico.ca...
>>>>
>>>>>It is well known enough that it had to be done on purpose by the
>>>>>$tealer.
>>>>>
>>>>>I most certainly would bring the invoice with the mileage on it back to
>>>>>the $tealer and be wanting free rotors, if not the install too.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>>>
>>>>>klutz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>My wife's 2003 Grand Cherokee fell victim to warped rotors, but after
>>>>>>completing the repairs, I'm surmising that her driving style didn't
>>>>
>>>>cause
>>>>
>>>>>>the problem. While removing the lug nuts with a breaker bar, I felt
>>
>>a
>>
>>>>>>disparity in the effort required to loosen them. Hmmm. That can't
>>
>>be
>>
>>>>good.
>>>>
>>>>>>I wondered what the torque was on the other wheel, so I used a torque
>>
>>>>wrench
>>>>
>>>>>>to loosen the lugs. Torque varied from 80 to 125 lb/ft on the R/F
>>>>
>>>>wheel!
>>>>
>>>>>>Just for safety's sake, I checked the rear wheels. Same sad shape.
>>>>
>>>>Torque
>>>>
>>>>>>was all over the map. Moral of the story - when the dealer is doing
>>>>>>warranty work (power window) and asks if you want your tires
>>
>>rotated -
>>
>>>>tell
>>>>
>>>>>>'em "No, thanks" - unless you can oversee the job. Incidentally, the
>>>>
>>>>old
>>>>
>>>>>>rotors and pads had 29,000 miles and wore evenly, with no glazing or
>>>>>>hot
>>>>>>spots. The pads have 5/16 of friction material left. My money says
>>>>
>>>>that
>>>>
>>>>>>the dealer's tire-jockey has caused me (and likely many others) to
>>>>
>>>>suffer
>>>>
>>>>>>from warped rotors. Intentionally, perhaps? Hard to prove. Word to
>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>>wise - the 2003 WJ has rotors made of soft cast iron. Inattention to
>>>>
>>>>wheel
>>>>
>>>>>>torque can destroy them in a heartbeat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
and then a hand torque wrench for final tighten... in a star pattern
even. If a particular torque stick or wrench is off calibration it
would not produce such widely varying values, it would just produce
values off from absolute torque but a heck of a lot closer to relative
torque. Unless they also lubed the things.
Will Honea proclaimed:
> Problem isn't the actual torque so much as the differential torque
> between the lugnuts. Just to keep it simple, I tell my kids and the
> tire jockies doing any work on mine that 100 ft-lbs +- nothing is the
> number I want used. I've won several free rotations and even an
> alignment betting shop owners that their magic torque sticks on the
> air wrench cannot set the torque on any wheel to be within 10% on a
> 5-lug wheel.
>
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 21:17:47 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I hate to be Devil's Advocate here, but 80-125 quoted by the original poster
>>is not too far from 85-115. Perhaps the rotors warped due to some other
>>cause, and he is seeing the result in disparity of the effort required to
>>loosen the lug nuts. In the ideal world you would want to use a star
>>pattern and a torque wrench. In the real world you want to get the wheels
>>on and the vehicle out of the shop as soon as possible. It is impossible to
>>say what they do in that shop, unless you work there, or are a lawyer who
>>has received a lot of complaints about them.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>>"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>>news:517ca$43c16e58$4831b233$4075@FUSE.NET...
>>
>>>WJs - 85-115 ft lbs
>>>
>>>"Earle Horton" <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>news:43c16c2c$0$10319$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanew s.com...
>>>
>>>>125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>>>>
>>>>Earle
>>>>still top-posting
>>>>
>>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>>news:43C167A1.9609B3E4@sympatico.ca...
>>>>
>>>>>It is well known enough that it had to be done on purpose by the
>>>>>$tealer.
>>>>>
>>>>>I most certainly would bring the invoice with the mileage on it back to
>>>>>the $tealer and be wanting free rotors, if not the install too.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>>>
>>>>>klutz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>My wife's 2003 Grand Cherokee fell victim to warped rotors, but after
>>>>>>completing the repairs, I'm surmising that her driving style didn't
>>>>
>>>>cause
>>>>
>>>>>>the problem. While removing the lug nuts with a breaker bar, I felt
>>
>>a
>>
>>>>>>disparity in the effort required to loosen them. Hmmm. That can't
>>
>>be
>>
>>>>good.
>>>>
>>>>>>I wondered what the torque was on the other wheel, so I used a torque
>>
>>>>wrench
>>>>
>>>>>>to loosen the lugs. Torque varied from 80 to 125 lb/ft on the R/F
>>>>
>>>>wheel!
>>>>
>>>>>>Just for safety's sake, I checked the rear wheels. Same sad shape.
>>>>
>>>>Torque
>>>>
>>>>>>was all over the map. Moral of the story - when the dealer is doing
>>>>>>warranty work (power window) and asks if you want your tires
>>
>>rotated -
>>
>>>>tell
>>>>
>>>>>>'em "No, thanks" - unless you can oversee the job. Incidentally, the
>>>>
>>>>old
>>>>
>>>>>>rotors and pads had 29,000 miles and wore evenly, with no glazing or
>>>>>>hot
>>>>>>spots. The pads have 5/16 of friction material left. My money says
>>>>
>>>>that
>>>>
>>>>>>the dealer's tire-jockey has caused me (and likely many others) to
>>>>
>>>>suffer
>>>>
>>>>>>from warped rotors. Intentionally, perhaps? Hard to prove. Word to
>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>>wise - the 2003 WJ has rotors made of soft cast iron. Inattention to
>>>>
>>>>wheel
>>>>
>>>>>>torque can destroy them in a heartbeat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
01-08-2006, 07:49 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Lug nut torque & warped rotors
Even the local tire discounters only use torque sticks to get them close
and then a hand torque wrench for final tighten... in a star pattern
even. If a particular torque stick or wrench is off calibration it
would not produce such widely varying values, it would just produce
values off from absolute torque but a heck of a lot closer to relative
torque. Unless they also lubed the things.
Will Honea proclaimed:
> Problem isn't the actual torque so much as the differential torque
> between the lugnuts. Just to keep it simple, I tell my kids and the
> tire jockies doing any work on mine that 100 ft-lbs +- nothing is the
> number I want used. I've won several free rotations and even an
> alignment betting shop owners that their magic torque sticks on the
> air wrench cannot set the torque on any wheel to be within 10% on a
> 5-lug wheel.
>
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 21:17:47 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I hate to be Devil's Advocate here, but 80-125 quoted by the original poster
>>is not too far from 85-115. Perhaps the rotors warped due to some other
>>cause, and he is seeing the result in disparity of the effort required to
>>loosen the lug nuts. In the ideal world you would want to use a star
>>pattern and a torque wrench. In the real world you want to get the wheels
>>on and the vehicle out of the shop as soon as possible. It is impossible to
>>say what they do in that shop, unless you work there, or are a lawyer who
>>has received a lot of complaints about them.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>>"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>>news:517ca$43c16e58$4831b233$4075@FUSE.NET...
>>
>>>WJs - 85-115 ft lbs
>>>
>>>"Earle Horton" <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>news:43c16c2c$0$10319$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanew s.com...
>>>
>>>>125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>>>>
>>>>Earle
>>>>still top-posting
>>>>
>>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>>news:43C167A1.9609B3E4@sympatico.ca...
>>>>
>>>>>It is well known enough that it had to be done on purpose by the
>>>>>$tealer.
>>>>>
>>>>>I most certainly would bring the invoice with the mileage on it back to
>>>>>the $tealer and be wanting free rotors, if not the install too.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>>>
>>>>>klutz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>My wife's 2003 Grand Cherokee fell victim to warped rotors, but after
>>>>>>completing the repairs, I'm surmising that her driving style didn't
>>>>
>>>>cause
>>>>
>>>>>>the problem. While removing the lug nuts with a breaker bar, I felt
>>
>>a
>>
>>>>>>disparity in the effort required to loosen them. Hmmm. That can't
>>
>>be
>>
>>>>good.
>>>>
>>>>>>I wondered what the torque was on the other wheel, so I used a torque
>>
>>>>wrench
>>>>
>>>>>>to loosen the lugs. Torque varied from 80 to 125 lb/ft on the R/F
>>>>
>>>>wheel!
>>>>
>>>>>>Just for safety's sake, I checked the rear wheels. Same sad shape.
>>>>
>>>>Torque
>>>>
>>>>>>was all over the map. Moral of the story - when the dealer is doing
>>>>>>warranty work (power window) and asks if you want your tires
>>
>>rotated -
>>
>>>>tell
>>>>
>>>>>>'em "No, thanks" - unless you can oversee the job. Incidentally, the
>>>>
>>>>old
>>>>
>>>>>>rotors and pads had 29,000 miles and wore evenly, with no glazing or
>>>>>>hot
>>>>>>spots. The pads have 5/16 of friction material left. My money says
>>>>
>>>>that
>>>>
>>>>>>the dealer's tire-jockey has caused me (and likely many others) to
>>>>
>>>>suffer
>>>>
>>>>>>from warped rotors. Intentionally, perhaps? Hard to prove. Word to
>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>>wise - the 2003 WJ has rotors made of soft cast iron. Inattention to
>>>>
>>>>wheel
>>>>
>>>>>>torque can destroy them in a heartbeat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
and then a hand torque wrench for final tighten... in a star pattern
even. If a particular torque stick or wrench is off calibration it
would not produce such widely varying values, it would just produce
values off from absolute torque but a heck of a lot closer to relative
torque. Unless they also lubed the things.
Will Honea proclaimed:
> Problem isn't the actual torque so much as the differential torque
> between the lugnuts. Just to keep it simple, I tell my kids and the
> tire jockies doing any work on mine that 100 ft-lbs +- nothing is the
> number I want used. I've won several free rotations and even an
> alignment betting shop owners that their magic torque sticks on the
> air wrench cannot set the torque on any wheel to be within 10% on a
> 5-lug wheel.
>
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 21:17:47 UTC "Earle Horton"
> <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I hate to be Devil's Advocate here, but 80-125 quoted by the original poster
>>is not too far from 85-115. Perhaps the rotors warped due to some other
>>cause, and he is seeing the result in disparity of the effort required to
>>loosen the lug nuts. In the ideal world you would want to use a star
>>pattern and a torque wrench. In the real world you want to get the wheels
>>on and the vehicle out of the shop as soon as possible. It is impossible to
>>say what they do in that shop, unless you work there, or are a lawyer who
>>has received a lot of complaints about them.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>>"billy ray" <billy_ray@fuseSPAM.net> wrote in message
>>news:517ca$43c16e58$4831b233$4075@FUSE.NET...
>>
>>>WJs - 85-115 ft lbs
>>>
>>>"Earle Horton" <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>news:43c16c2c$0$10319$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanew s.com...
>>>
>>>>125 ft-lb seems like a lot, too. What is the recommended value?
>>>>
>>>>Earle
>>>>still top-posting
>>>>
>>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>>news:43C167A1.9609B3E4@sympatico.ca...
>>>>
>>>>>It is well known enough that it had to be done on purpose by the
>>>>>$tealer.
>>>>>
>>>>>I most certainly would bring the invoice with the mileage on it back to
>>>>>the $tealer and be wanting free rotors, if not the install too.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>>>
>>>>>klutz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>My wife's 2003 Grand Cherokee fell victim to warped rotors, but after
>>>>>>completing the repairs, I'm surmising that her driving style didn't
>>>>
>>>>cause
>>>>
>>>>>>the problem. While removing the lug nuts with a breaker bar, I felt
>>
>>a
>>
>>>>>>disparity in the effort required to loosen them. Hmmm. That can't
>>
>>be
>>
>>>>good.
>>>>
>>>>>>I wondered what the torque was on the other wheel, so I used a torque
>>
>>>>wrench
>>>>
>>>>>>to loosen the lugs. Torque varied from 80 to 125 lb/ft on the R/F
>>>>
>>>>wheel!
>>>>
>>>>>>Just for safety's sake, I checked the rear wheels. Same sad shape.
>>>>
>>>>Torque
>>>>
>>>>>>was all over the map. Moral of the story - when the dealer is doing
>>>>>>warranty work (power window) and asks if you want your tires
>>
>>rotated -
>>
>>>>tell
>>>>
>>>>>>'em "No, thanks" - unless you can oversee the job. Incidentally, the
>>>>
>>>>old
>>>>
>>>>>>rotors and pads had 29,000 miles and wore evenly, with no glazing or
>>>>>>hot
>>>>>>spots. The pads have 5/16 of friction material left. My money says
>>>>
>>>>that
>>>>
>>>>>>the dealer's tire-jockey has caused me (and likely many others) to
>>>>
>>>>suffer
>>>>
>>>>>>from warped rotors. Intentionally, perhaps? Hard to prove. Word to
>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>>wise - the 2003 WJ has rotors made of soft cast iron. Inattention to
>>>>
>>>>wheel
>>>>
>>>>>>torque can destroy them in a heartbeat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>