L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

I could have easy enough, her father wouldn't even let her park it
in the driveway.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" wrote:
>
> you didn't help it on it's way, did you?

Dave Milne

it would be heavier for sure, but I doubt it would be heavier than the I6.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara

"Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3f52c3c5$0$13111$a04e5680@nnrp.fuse.net...
: Dave Milne wrote:
:
: > I think its a fair comparison - the ZJ and the Liberty also have
: > aerodynamics of a brick, and even if you dont accept that, you can't get
: > away from the fact that the 2.8 crd diesel is more powerful and has more
: > torque than the 2.5.
: >
: > Besides, this is for a 4x4 - exactly when a torquey diesel and water
: > resistance is useful.
:
: How about the added weight associated with a true diesel? The Wrangler is
: already getting rather porky at 3400 lbs, but with a diesel, it'll be a
: lard ***.

Dave Milne

it would be heavier for sure, but I doubt it would be heavier than the I6.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara

"Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3f52c3c5$0$13111$a04e5680@nnrp.fuse.net...
: Dave Milne wrote:
:
: > I think its a fair comparison - the ZJ and the Liberty also have
: > aerodynamics of a brick, and even if you dont accept that, you can't get
: > away from the fact that the 2.8 crd diesel is more powerful and has more
: > torque than the 2.5.
: >
: > Besides, this is for a 4x4 - exactly when a torquey diesel and water
: > resistance is useful.
:
: How about the added weight associated with a true diesel? The Wrangler is
: already getting rather porky at 3400 lbs, but with a diesel, it'll be a
: lard ***.

F. Robert Falbo

In message <3f52c6b4$0$52158$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net>, Big Daddy wrote:

> Let's seperate the facts from fiction here. Yes, they are reliable.

Very.

> However,
> they don't like cold weather and you need to keep them warm if you want to
> start them the next morning,

I routinely started mine in Upstate NY in the Winter with NO heater. While
mine came with a 400 watt block heater, I only used it when the temp dipped
below 0 degrees, and then I had it on a timer for only 2 hours of heat. I had
no place to plug it in while I was working, so even in 20-30 below zero, it had
to start cold. The coldest weather would only require double-firing the glow
plugs, which were an 11 second time-out. I had a friend with a Diesel Rabbit
who didn't even fire his glow-plugs in the Summer!

> and when they do need work, it can get costly
> as the parts aren't readily available and only a fraction of trained
> mechanics are trained to work on diesels.

Look at the sales figures for heavy duty pickups. The "Big 3" are selling a lot
of diesels. Who works on them? If a Diesel is designed right, it shouldn't
need maint. for years... Look at mine - No maint for almost 13 years, and even
then, my injectors were still in reasonably good condition

> Secondly, have you went down to a local gas station that isn't located next
> to a highway? They usually don't carry diesel.

Maybe where YOU live. Here, the majority of stations have a Diesel pump, and
I'm in a pretty much rural area, the only "major" highway being about 10 miles
away (US90).

> I drive a diesel truck daily
> for trips up to 150 miles away and I have to keep track of which BP
> stations off the highway carry diesel so I know where I can gas up.

BP eh? Sounds like Canada. I worked in Newfoundland when I had my Peugeot -
up in Sidney and down in Barrington - no problems getting diesel - of course,
the Peugeot probably got better milage than your truck, being only a 1.7L.

Correction to my previous post - I had the XD2S diesel engine.

--
-bob-
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F. Robert Falbo

In message <3f52c6b4$0$52158$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net>, Big Daddy wrote:

> Let's seperate the facts from fiction here. Yes, they are reliable.

Very.

> However,
> they don't like cold weather and you need to keep them warm if you want to
> start them the next morning,

I routinely started mine in Upstate NY in the Winter with NO heater. While
mine came with a 400 watt block heater, I only used it when the temp dipped
below 0 degrees, and then I had it on a timer for only 2 hours of heat. I had
no place to plug it in while I was working, so even in 20-30 below zero, it had
to start cold. The coldest weather would only require double-firing the glow
plugs, which were an 11 second time-out. I had a friend with a Diesel Rabbit
who didn't even fire his glow-plugs in the Summer!

> and when they do need work, it can get costly
> as the parts aren't readily available and only a fraction of trained
> mechanics are trained to work on diesels.

Look at the sales figures for heavy duty pickups. The "Big 3" are selling a lot
of diesels. Who works on them? If a Diesel is designed right, it shouldn't
need maint. for years... Look at mine - No maint for almost 13 years, and even
then, my injectors were still in reasonably good condition

> Secondly, have you went down to a local gas station that isn't located next
> to a highway? They usually don't carry diesel.

Maybe where YOU live. Here, the majority of stations have a Diesel pump, and
I'm in a pretty much rural area, the only "major" highway being about 10 miles
away (US90).

> I drive a diesel truck daily
> for trips up to 150 miles away and I have to keep track of which BP
> stations off the highway carry diesel so I know where I can gas up.

BP eh? Sounds like Canada. I worked in Newfoundland when I had my Peugeot -
up in Sidney and down in Barrington - no problems getting diesel - of course,
the Peugeot probably got better milage than your truck, being only a 1.7L.

Correction to my previous post - I had the XD2S diesel engine.

--
-bob-
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F. Robert Falbo

In message <rcz4b.4350$cQ1.1277926@kent.svc.tds.net>, "A.H. MacIntosh aka
USERNAME" wrote:

> But you can always get the motor off dino-fuel, and burn biodiesel... your
> jeep will smell like burning deepfryer grease, but it's a small price to
> pay.

GREASEL I've been checking out their site every now and then. I wonder what
the exhaust would smell like if all you had was Olive Oil to use? :P


--
-bob-
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F. Robert Falbo

In message <rcz4b.4350$cQ1.1277926@kent.svc.tds.net>, "A.H. MacIntosh aka
USERNAME" wrote:

> But you can always get the motor off dino-fuel, and burn biodiesel... your
> jeep will smell like burning deepfryer grease, but it's a small price to
> pay.

GREASEL I've been checking out their site every now and then. I wonder what
the exhaust would smell like if all you had was Olive Oil to use? :P


--
-bob-
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Big Daddy

F. Robert Falbo wrote:

>> and when they do need work, it can get costly
>> as the parts aren't readily available and only a fraction of trained
>> mechanics are trained to work on diesels.
>
> Look at the sales figures for heavy duty pickups. The "Big 3" are selling
> a lot
> of diesels. Who works on them? If a Diesel is designed right, it
> shouldn't need maint. for years... Look at mine - No maint for almost 13
> years, and even then, my injectors were still in reasonably good condition

You must have read it wrong. At any given dealership there is only a
fraction of them trained to work on diesels. Diesels require special
training. Most mechanics can do routine things, but if you need to fix one,
you need a diesel mechanic. Granted, they are _very_ reliable. But even the
most reliable engines get problems occasionally.

>> Secondly, have you went down to a local gas station that isn't located
>> next to a highway? They usually don't carry diesel.
>
> Maybe where YOU live. Here, the majority of stations have a Diesel pump,
> and I'm in a pretty much rural area, the only "major" highway being about
> 10 miles away (US90).

Then YOU must live where a lot of truck traffic rolls through or in a
country where diesel cars are more common.

>> I drive a diesel truck daily
>> for trips up to 150 miles away and I have to keep track of which BP
>> stations off the highway carry diesel so I know where I can gas up.
>
> BP eh? Sounds like Canada. I worked in Newfoundland when I had my
> Peugeot - up in Sidney and down in Barrington - no problems getting diesel
> - of course, the Peugeot probably got better milage than your truck, being
> only a 1.7L.

The company uses a BP credit card and therefore I have to use BP or Amoco
unless there's none around. Then I have to use my own money and get
refunded from the office.

Big Daddy

F. Robert Falbo wrote:

>> and when they do need work, it can get costly
>> as the parts aren't readily available and only a fraction of trained
>> mechanics are trained to work on diesels.
>
> Look at the sales figures for heavy duty pickups. The "Big 3" are selling
> a lot
> of diesels. Who works on them? If a Diesel is designed right, it
> shouldn't need maint. for years... Look at mine - No maint for almost 13
> years, and even then, my injectors were still in reasonably good condition

You must have read it wrong. At any given dealership there is only a
fraction of them trained to work on diesels. Diesels require special
training. Most mechanics can do routine things, but if you need to fix one,
you need a diesel mechanic. Granted, they are _very_ reliable. But even the
most reliable engines get problems occasionally.

>> Secondly, have you went down to a local gas station that isn't located
>> next to a highway? They usually don't carry diesel.
>
> Maybe where YOU live. Here, the majority of stations have a Diesel pump,
> and I'm in a pretty much rural area, the only "major" highway being about
> 10 miles away (US90).

Then YOU must live where a lot of truck traffic rolls through or in a
country where diesel cars are more common.

>> I drive a diesel truck daily
>> for trips up to 150 miles away and I have to keep track of which BP
>> stations off the highway carry diesel so I know where I can gas up.
>
> BP eh? Sounds like Canada. I worked in Newfoundland when I had my
> Peugeot - up in Sidney and down in Barrington - no problems getting diesel
> - of course, the Peugeot probably got better milage than your truck, being
> only a 1.7L.

The company uses a BP credit card and therefore I have to use BP or Amoco
unless there's none around. Then I have to use my own money and get
refunded from the office.

curt

"Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3f52c4aa$0$13111$a04e5680@nnrp.fuse.net...
> curt wrote:
>
> > The maintenance on diesels is much better than a gasser too. Nothing
but
> > change oil. If you are lucky enough to own a Mercedes diesel you can
> > drive
> > them for 350 K ++ and do almost nothing to them. There are some driving
> > around with over 1 million miles on them.
>
> Yes, but when they do need work, it can get costly.

I certainly can't argue there. Very expensive when they need work.

Curt