Jerry McG

"Robert Bills" ignorantly wrote in message
news:20031121100215.25827.00000620@mb-m05.aol.com...

> Jerry McGeorge, car salesman, <

Some lawyer you must be, do you always shoot from the lip? You didn't read
what I'd just written: I don't and never have sold cars.

> In most states, lemon laws apply to used car as well as new car sales. <

Some, not all. However, yes, dealers are often responsible for used cars
they sell, unless covered by the Mfrs warranty. In those cases, however, the
LL doesn't apply, it's for new vehicles only.

> In a used car lemon law claim the dealer is almost always involved because
of warranties provided by the dealer independent of the new car warranty. <

Many of which were written by lawyers looking to make a quick buck with a
scam warranty the dealer won't honor. Biggest scam in the auto induistry has
been independent extended warranties not backed my mfrs.

> The dealer also has an economic interest, both direct and indirect, in the
outcome of new car lemon law claims handled by the manufacturer. <

But, they have no economic liability whatsoever in the resolution
of these cases, despite the fact they cause most of them through
adminitrative incompetence, lack of training, inadequate parts inventory,
etc.

> Your vitriolic insults suggest that you must have gone through a bad
divorce or spent some time in jail, and, rather than take responsibility for
yourself, you want to blame lawyers for the fact that you are an ***.<

You sound like a very thin skinned lawyer to me, hope you never have to deal
with me in a deposition! (The last atty who did ended up with larygitis and
a case of shingles.)

> I must go now. I need to drive my Mercedes over to the country club for
some golf, and then cruise down to the harbor for a ride on the yacht.<

Say hi to the rest of the theives...er, lawyers out on the links!

Jerry McG

"Robert Bills" ignorantly wrote in message
news:20031121100215.25827.00000620@mb-m05.aol.com...

> Jerry McGeorge, car salesman, <

Some lawyer you must be, do you always shoot from the lip? You didn't read
what I'd just written: I don't and never have sold cars.

> In most states, lemon laws apply to used car as well as new car sales. <

Some, not all. However, yes, dealers are often responsible for used cars
they sell, unless covered by the Mfrs warranty. In those cases, however, the
LL doesn't apply, it's for new vehicles only.

> In a used car lemon law claim the dealer is almost always involved because
of warranties provided by the dealer independent of the new car warranty. <

Many of which were written by lawyers looking to make a quick buck with a
scam warranty the dealer won't honor. Biggest scam in the auto induistry has
been independent extended warranties not backed my mfrs.

> The dealer also has an economic interest, both direct and indirect, in the
outcome of new car lemon law claims handled by the manufacturer. <

But, they have no economic liability whatsoever in the resolution
of these cases, despite the fact they cause most of them through
adminitrative incompetence, lack of training, inadequate parts inventory,
etc.

> Your vitriolic insults suggest that you must have gone through a bad
divorce or spent some time in jail, and, rather than take responsibility for
yourself, you want to blame lawyers for the fact that you are an ***.<

You sound like a very thin skinned lawyer to me, hope you never have to deal
with me in a deposition! (The last atty who did ended up with larygitis and
a case of shingles.)

> I must go now. I need to drive my Mercedes over to the country club for
some golf, and then cruise down to the harbor for a ride on the yacht.<

Say hi to the rest of the theives...er, lawyers out on the links!

Jerry McG

"Robert Bills" ignorantly wrote in message
news:20031121100215.25827.00000620@mb-m05.aol.com...

> Jerry McGeorge, car salesman, <

Some lawyer you must be, do you always shoot from the lip? You didn't read
what I'd just written: I don't and never have sold cars.

> In most states, lemon laws apply to used car as well as new car sales. <

Some, not all. However, yes, dealers are often responsible for used cars
they sell, unless covered by the Mfrs warranty. In those cases, however, the
LL doesn't apply, it's for new vehicles only.

> In a used car lemon law claim the dealer is almost always involved because
of warranties provided by the dealer independent of the new car warranty. <

Many of which were written by lawyers looking to make a quick buck with a
scam warranty the dealer won't honor. Biggest scam in the auto induistry has
been independent extended warranties not backed my mfrs.

> The dealer also has an economic interest, both direct and indirect, in the
outcome of new car lemon law claims handled by the manufacturer. <

But, they have no economic liability whatsoever in the resolution
of these cases, despite the fact they cause most of them through
adminitrative incompetence, lack of training, inadequate parts inventory,
etc.

> Your vitriolic insults suggest that you must have gone through a bad
divorce or spent some time in jail, and, rather than take responsibility for
yourself, you want to blame lawyers for the fact that you are an ***.<

You sound like a very thin skinned lawyer to me, hope you never have to deal
with me in a deposition! (The last atty who did ended up with larygitis and
a case of shingles.)

> I must go now. I need to drive my Mercedes over to the country club for
some golf, and then cruise down to the harbor for a ride on the yacht.<

Say hi to the rest of the theives...er, lawyers out on the links!

Jerry McG

> I actually managed to help get the service manager for a major European
performance brand fired after contacting the Porsche rep about truly bad
service revolving around some of the stupidest repair actions I had ever
witnessed. <

And, who did this? Not a slime licking lawyer, for sure, it was the Porsche
rep. doing his job as he should. <

> And got in touch with the Porsche folks from my lawyer's office, since he
had better contacts than just looking in the owner manual and the phone
book. <

And, you doubtlessly contacted the same people whose numbers you'd have
found in the owners manual or the phone book, the difference is you ended up
paying a lawyer for a very expensive 411 call!

Jerry McG

> I actually managed to help get the service manager for a major European
performance brand fired after contacting the Porsche rep about truly bad
service revolving around some of the stupidest repair actions I had ever
witnessed. <

And, who did this? Not a slime licking lawyer, for sure, it was the Porsche
rep. doing his job as he should. <

> And got in touch with the Porsche folks from my lawyer's office, since he
had better contacts than just looking in the owner manual and the phone
book. <

And, you doubtlessly contacted the same people whose numbers you'd have
found in the owners manual or the phone book, the difference is you ended up
paying a lawyer for a very expensive 411 call!

Jerry McG

> I actually managed to help get the service manager for a major European
performance brand fired after contacting the Porsche rep about truly bad
service revolving around some of the stupidest repair actions I had ever
witnessed. <

And, who did this? Not a slime licking lawyer, for sure, it was the Porsche
rep. doing his job as he should. <

> And got in touch with the Porsche folks from my lawyer's office, since he
had better contacts than just looking in the owner manual and the phone
book. <

And, you doubtlessly contacted the same people whose numbers you'd have
found in the owners manual or the phone book, the difference is you ended up
paying a lawyer for a very expensive 411 call!

Peter Parker

In article <bpljoi09tv@enews1.newsguy.com>,
Jerry McG <gmcgeorge.REMOVE@frontier.net> wrote:
>> Your job at a high-end Euroluxury manufacturer notwithstanding, the fact
>remains not all manufacturers will do this voluntarily, regardless of what
>the law says. <
>
>Well, no, Matt, they have to or they can lose their State distribution
>licenses and face a host of punitive finmes, etc. That doesn't mean they
>don't avail themselves of sound defensive strategies, but if they refuse to
>obey the law somone's in big trouble.
>
>The hardest part about dealing with this for me initially was the Europeans
>couldn't grasp US consumer protection laws. The laws everntually were
>adopted by thew UK and the EU in various forms and they slowly caught on,
>but initially they thought we were just "rolling over" for the customers.
>(Thank GOD I retired!)

That's because over in Germany (Example) the corporation has all the rights
and the individual does not. You are up the creek over there if you have to
go up against a corporation.


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Peter Parker

In article <bpljoi09tv@enews1.newsguy.com>,
Jerry McG <gmcgeorge.REMOVE@frontier.net> wrote:
>> Your job at a high-end Euroluxury manufacturer notwithstanding, the fact
>remains not all manufacturers will do this voluntarily, regardless of what
>the law says. <
>
>Well, no, Matt, they have to or they can lose their State distribution
>licenses and face a host of punitive finmes, etc. That doesn't mean they
>don't avail themselves of sound defensive strategies, but if they refuse to
>obey the law somone's in big trouble.
>
>The hardest part about dealing with this for me initially was the Europeans
>couldn't grasp US consumer protection laws. The laws everntually were
>adopted by thew UK and the EU in various forms and they slowly caught on,
>but initially they thought we were just "rolling over" for the customers.
>(Thank GOD I retired!)

That's because over in Germany (Example) the corporation has all the rights
and the individual does not. You are up the creek over there if you have to
go up against a corporation.


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Peter Parker

In article <bpljoi09tv@enews1.newsguy.com>,
Jerry McG <gmcgeorge.REMOVE@frontier.net> wrote:
>> Your job at a high-end Euroluxury manufacturer notwithstanding, the fact
>remains not all manufacturers will do this voluntarily, regardless of what
>the law says. <
>
>Well, no, Matt, they have to or they can lose their State distribution
>licenses and face a host of punitive finmes, etc. That doesn't mean they
>don't avail themselves of sound defensive strategies, but if they refuse to
>obey the law somone's in big trouble.
>
>The hardest part about dealing with this for me initially was the Europeans
>couldn't grasp US consumer protection laws. The laws everntually were
>adopted by thew UK and the EU in various forms and they slowly caught on,
>but initially they thought we were just "rolling over" for the customers.
>(Thank GOD I retired!)

That's because over in Germany (Example) the corporation has all the rights
and the individual does not. You are up the creek over there if you have to
go up against a corporation.


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Matt Macchiarolo

In article <bpljbl09fs@enews1.newsguy.com>, "Jerry McG"
<gmcgeorge.REMOVE@frontier.net> writes:

>This is precisely why I insisted we be proactrive in these matters, we
>simply didn't have enough customers to lose, or to endure negative word of
>mouth at the country clubs while we played "drag your feet"

If only all manufacturers would be so proactive. You'd expect Honda to do it,
but it would seem based on my experience they would rather drag it out than
admit they even made a lemon. I guess they have plenty of other customers.

During all this I ran a couple hours' worth of Web seaches and found that this
oil leak we experienced is not an uncommon defect in the Honda V-6's, this was
*after* the service manager told me he'd "never seen" this kind of problem
before (1qt every 200 miles). Found TSB's, references to the "block casting
porosity" on Honda newsgroups and BB's etc.

Friend of mine recently had an issue with a Ford Superduty with the new 6.0L
diesel, and they replaced the truck *twice;* the first replacement had the same
engine problem, so they replaced it again with the V10 gas engine. All without
having to threaten litigation, and all within 90 days. If Ford was willing to
do it, Honda should be as well....
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html