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Well..... When the boys lift and lock both the front and rear diffs on
a TJ, they can 'almost' keep up to my open diffed CJ7 out at the local
sand pits.

Great for photo ops. They laugh, 'once', at my CJ7 with it's tall
skinny tires and puny 2.5" lift, then they spend the rest of the day
trying and trying to get to where I am taking photos of them trying and
trying...

The coil springs can't keep the tires on the ground, so they start to
bounce which lets them spin so when they come down they just dig holes
rather than continue forward. Same for washboard roads, the coils will
let you go faster easier, but you can get into trouble faster too...

When you are crawling up over rocks, the leaf springs raise the rocker
panels up very quickly so you don't tag them. Coils just let the axle
go up so you have to have rocker panel protection or you beat up your
Jeep.

Coils are 'far' more comfortable though.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
>
> I'm NOT trying to get into the middle of something but am curious.
>
> I know just enough to be dangerous about the differences between leaf
> and coil springs, and my Jeep has coils in front while the Studebaker
> truck has leafs.
>
> Why would leafs be considered better on a 4wd vehicle? Obviously it can
> make for a simpler suspension (they don't get much simpler than my
> truck!), and simple is NOT a bad thing, but they do take more room.
>
> So what are the pros and cons of each?
>
> A question somewhat related to the argument between Bill and Simon, just
> why DO semi tractors have drum brakes? Seems like disks are cheaper,
> simpler, easier to maintain and are less likely to fail, but about all I
> know about those trucks I've learned on the "Trucks" TV show and the
> fact I don't like to be behind them.
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Simon Juncal wrote:
> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> >> Yes but mu point that you missed was any CJ-5 in his price range is
> >> going to need a lot more REPAIR, not UPGRADE, than something newer.
> >
> >
> > Bill didn't miss the point, he selects arbitrary (and usually
> > irrelivant) points to suit the link he's posting or to get away from the
> > fact that he has just been schooled but can't accept it.
> >
> > Case in point he mentioned Semi trucks have drum brakes... which is so
> > utterly irrelivant that he might as well have said his 1935 soap box
> > racer he made in his youth, had rubber sneaker drag brakes.
> >
> > If you mention that a boxed frame Jeep has more strength and rigidity he
> > will ALWAYS say that Semi tractors have open C channel frames, he has no
> > clue WHY! If he had a clue he wouldn't mention that they have C-channel,
> > frames because he would realize he was defeating his own argument.
> >
> > (PS. Semi's have open channel frames because they NEED TO FLEX! to
> > handle up to 80,000 pound loads, they are DESIGNED to be flexible in a
> > predictable and consistent manner).
> >
> > If you mention Coil springs he will mention Semi's and heavy tow and
> > vehicles have leafs... apearently believeing that towing capacity
> > equates to off road prowess.
> >
> > Basically Bill stopped believing in reality about 30 years ago but he
> > hasn't let that stop him from being an opinionated old kook. Who thinks
> > that anything new is inferior (including fuel injection... because 1500
> > Horse power top fuel dragsters use carburetors!!!)
> >

Say WHAT! It is the shock absorber length that dictates the axle
travel: http://www.----------.com/TJleafSprings/index.htm Except with
independent suspension, where their "A" frames must be stopped by rubber
bumpers to keep them from breaking apart:
http://www.----------.com/temp/dodgeBallJoint.jpg
http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/j...ension_cad.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> Coils can compress and expand more than leafs, they are only attached to
> the frame at one point and usually in line with suspension travel
> meaning they are much less restrictive to movement. They also allow
> things like four link, four bar and tri axial suspensions which all have
> their pros and cons but all offer serious advantages in their
> applications over old fashioned leaf springs.
>
> Leafs are stronger more simple and are great for towing and heavy loads
> which apparently Bill equates to off roading for some wacky reason.
>
> As for trucks, a lot of things the trucking industry does only for cost
> reasons. The other major motivator is pure stubborn tradition and
> resistance to change (remember they didn't want to put Lower bumpers on
> their trailers because well... because they didn't want to spend money
> or change, regardless of the fact that they save peoples lives.
>
> The Semi thus is an extremely poor thing to use as an example for ANY
> technology. Because between the EXTREME specialization (it has to tow
> 80,000 pounds!) and the trucking industry being EXTREMELY inbred and old
> fashioned; you are really looking at what equates to a Dynosour some
> decades before the extinction. That is to say: A big unadaptable slow
> beast (meaning the industry not the trucks) poorly suited to survival if
> the worlds changes significantly.
>
> --
> Simon

L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> Say WHAT! It is the shock absorber length that dictates the axle
> travel: http://www.----------.com/TJleafSprings/index.htm Except with

Yes shocks can limit total compression and extension... That's great
Bill you're starting to learn about suspensions... now keep reading soon
you will understand just how out of touch you've been.

BTW you didn't actually think I was going to fall for your attempt to
build a strawman with this shock absorber post did you?

For anyone who's following along and has been confused by Bill's
non-sequitur, he is "pretending" that I stated something about Coils
determining absolute suspension travel... Of course Shocks physically
limit travel no matter how much your Coils can droop or compress... same
with leaf springs of course.

To suggest otherwise would be pretty retarded... For Bill to pretend I'm
saying that is pretty much pure desperation.

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein

L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> That's because skyjacker and most off road after market
> manufacturers weren't around in the sixties. And of course that's reason
> Bronco never won the BaJa 1000, they came new with coil springs:
> http://www.----------.com/bouncingFord.jpg

Funny you'd think Jones would have insisted on converting Big Oly to
leaf springs if they were superior... It wouldn't have been difficult,
the entire frame of Big Oly was custom tubing. It would have been.

Perhaps Olympia Beer was working on a Coil spring lift kit and insisted
that Jones keep the coils...

I'm no Baja racer or rock crawler, all I know is there are ---- loads of
coil over four links in the rock crawling world, must be the evil
Skyjacker forcing their will upon the drivers right? Funny how none of
the new drivers who don't have Lift kit sponsors or other veteran
drivers don't convert to Leaf springs and dominate the competition...

And here I was thinking that pro racers and rock crawlers would do
ANYTHING to gain a competitive advantage...

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein