Scooby Don't

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 22:50:36 GMT, "Dave Milne"
<jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:

>Hey, you don't spend 400 million in a few days :-) [bitter laugh]

What do you mean?! Here in the USA we can spend Billions in a single
day! :>

Scooby Don't

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 22:50:36 GMT, "Dave Milne"
<jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:

>Hey, you don't spend 400 million in a few days :-) [bitter laugh]

What do you mean?! Here in the USA we can spend Billions in a single
day! :>

Scooby Don't

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 22:50:36 GMT, "Dave Milne"
<jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:

>Hey, you don't spend 400 million in a few days :-) [bitter laugh]

What do you mean?! Here in the USA we can spend Billions in a single
day! :>

Gerald G. McGeorge

The Scots were absolutely wonderful and fascinating to sit and chat with,
even if I couldn't understand half what they said most of the time. One old
geezer who lived in the neighborhood near the pub told Brit jokes and had me
in stitches. (He might have been the guy re-skinning the 400 chairs for all
in know.) Aren't Glasgowites called "Glaswegians", Dave?


"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:l94vnvs72806v1bq7h8e7fsodvb0gvmg2t@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:24:11 -0600, "Gerald G. McGeorge"
> <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote:
>
> >I think my ancestral people are waiting for Mel Gibson to come back &
lead
> >'em again.
> >
> >I was in Glasgow back in '99 and ambled into a local pub. When the locals
> >found out I was a Yank of Scottish descent I never bought another
beer..er,
> >ale, er lager. Funny, though, I couldn't understand a single word some of
> >'em said!
>
> My father is a Scot, but he didn't go on that trip. The Scots are
> great people. The food is so-so. :)
>
>
> >"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:b11unv4k50rplujrai30kpkgi0o7s8calg@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 09:15:14 GMT, "Dave Milne"
> >> <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hah, sort of. We now have a Scottish parliament (good start), but it
> >would
> >> >appear we are incapable of governing ourselves (bad news). The
parliament
> >> >decided they need a nice new building to meet in (not that Edinburgh
is
> >> >exactly short of fine buildings), so they set about building one for
40
> >> >million quid. The total cost so far (and it isnt complete) is 400
million
> >> >quid. A friend of a friend got the contract for covering 400 chairs
with
> >> >leather, which had to be an exotic foreign leather. Having completed
the
> >400
> >> >chairs, he got the contract again to do the same chairs with a
slightly
> >> >different shade of exotic leather. Half way through, some "numpty"
> >decided
> >> >that they had forgotten to mention that the building should be bomb
proof
> >> >allegedly.
> >> >As Scotland has only 5 million people, per head of population that
would
> >be
> >> >equivalent of of 35 billion US on one building..
> >>
> >> I was over in Scotland oh more than a few years back and the Parliment
> >> building was under construction back then! You mean they still haven't
> >> finished it? When I was there it was not even a framework.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >
> >> >"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:vns4ompgnggbcf@corp.supernews.com...
> >> >: Ay the home 'o me Great, Great Grandpappy! Actually he was born in
> >> >Dumfries,
> >> >: but he headed for Edinburgh as a lad, probably had buggered the
Vicar's
> >> >: daughter or something and needed to get out of town fast! :-)
> >> >:
> >> >: Have we declared our once and for all independence from England yet?
> >> >:
> >> >: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> >> >: news:1Mlfb.8193$df6.67254513@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >> >: > I'm an Edinburgh lad !
> >> >: >
> >> >: > --
> >> >: > Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >: >
> >> >: > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> >> >: > news:vnmqteq77jp979@corp.supernews.com...
> >> >: > : Ah, but fear not, Mother Ford is here to help! Pretty soon
you'll
> >be
> >> >: able
> >> >: > to
> >> >: > : buy a Ford-based Land Rover, which won't off-road worth a crap,
but
> >> >: it'll
> >> >: > : start every time!
> >> >: > :
> >> >: > : What part of Scotland are you from, mate?
> >> >: > :
> >> >: > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> >> >: > : news:nyHeb.6286$Uc.52033728@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >> >: > : > Sounds about right.. I shuttle between Edinburgh and Solihull
> >where
> >> >: they
> >> >: > : > make Land Rovers. Despite the fact that Landys have more
> >substantial
> >> >: > : > chassis, suspension and running gear , I didn't buy one - the
> >> >: > electrolytic
> >> >: > : > corrosion from the alloy and steel is bad, the turbo diesel
> >engines
> >> >: are
> >> >: > : crap
> >> >: > : > (and that's all you can get in a Defender - bring back the
61-63
> >> >Buick
> >> >: > : > 3528cc, now 4600cc derived engine from the Disco). My pal got
a
> >> >second
> >> >: > : hand
> >> >: > : > Range Rover recently ; looked a lot better deal than my Jeep,
but
> >> >two
> >> >: > days
> >> >: > : > later it started all by itself, blew its computer and landed
the
> >> >owner
> >> >: > : with
> >> >: > : > a 1600 USD repair bill. Then the heated seats broke etc etc
etc.
> >> >When
> >> >: a
> >> >: > : > Solihull mechanic recommends you avoid LR, there has to be
> >something
> >> >: > wrong
> >> >: > : !
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > : > --
> >> >: > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >: > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > : > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> >> >: > : > news:vnk5bpqquvj3b@corp.supernews.com...
> >> >: > : > : Here in the States Land Rover is a perennial bottom dweller
on
> >our
> >> >: > : > : reliability studies. Some of my old staff from Jaguar USA
are
> >now
> >> >: > : > : responsible for Land Rover and have me in stitches laughing
at
> >> >some
> >> >: of
> >> >: > : the
> >> >: > : > : current LR reliability problems. Having worked for Jaguar
for
> >15
> >> >: > years,
> >> >: > : > : including pre-Ford, it's all "Deja Vu All Over Again". Oil
> >leaks,
> >> >: > : > electrical
> >> >: > : > : problems, corrosion, poor panel fits, bad paint, worn
leather,
> >> >: broken
> >> >: > : > : switchgear...what would we expect, as soon as Ford fired a
> >Jaguar
> >> >: > : > engineer,
> >> >: > : > : he got hired at Rover!
> >> >: > : > :
> >> >: > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> >> >: > : > : news:Cmneb.5277$E%5.44408874@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >> >: > : > : > Landy better than a Jeep for reliability ? Are they
serious
> >??
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >: > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > : > "Gyp" <gyp@localdomain.net> wrote in message
> >> >: > : > : > news:bkrmee$l5u$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> >> >: > : > : > : Lo Jeepers,
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : My other half pointed out an article in a local (UK)
paper
> >> >: (Daily
> >> >: > : > : > : Express). Which quotes from the "Warranty Direct
> >Reliability
> >> >: > index"
> >> >: > : > : > : which is itself compiled from garage bills of 39k cards
> >with
> >> >an
> >> >: > : > average
> >> >: > : > : > : age of 4.8 years and have a average millage of 49,702
> >miles.
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Top of the table was Mazda with an average repair bill
of
> >£275
> >> >: and
> >> >: > a
> >> >: > : > 16%
> >> >: > : > : > : failure rate.
> >> >: > : > : > : Second is Ford with an average repair bill of £207 and a
> >32%
> >> >: > failure
> >> >: > : > : rate
> >> >: > : > : > : Third is Honda with an average repair bill of £277 and a
> >20%
> >> >: > failure
> >> >: > : > : rate)
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Right down at the other end..
> >> >: > : > : > : At 21st comes Land Rover with a average repair bill of
£420
> >> >and
> >> >: a
> >> >: > : 44%
> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill and an average failure rate of 44%
> >> >: > : > : > : 22nd comes Subary with a whopping average repair bill of
> >£1040
> >> >: and
> >> >: > a
> >> >: > : > 21%
> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill
> >> >: > : > : > : and Lastly but not least comes Jeep in 23rd place (last)
> >with
> >> >an
> >> >: > : > average
> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill of £587.92 and an average repair bill of
41%.
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Not great recommendation for the Jeep really, although
> >since
> >> >the
> >> >: > : > highest
> >> >: > : > : > : failure rates in the chart being 4x4 related brands it
> >makes
> >> >me
> >> >: > : wonder
> >> >: > : > : > : quite how much driving an over engineered road vehicle
> >makes
> >> >: > sense.
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Gyp
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : --
> >> >: > : > : > : Jeep at the Threshold
> >> >: > : > : > : http://the-threshold.org/gallery/Jeep
> >> >: > : > : > : --
> >> >: > : > : > : 4x4 Anoraks Offload
> >> >: > : > : > : http://anoraks.uk.net
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > :
> >> >: > : > :
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > :
> >> >: > :
> >> >: >
> >> >: >
> >> >:
> >> >:
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

Gerald G. McGeorge

The Scots were absolutely wonderful and fascinating to sit and chat with,
even if I couldn't understand half what they said most of the time. One old
geezer who lived in the neighborhood near the pub told Brit jokes and had me
in stitches. (He might have been the guy re-skinning the 400 chairs for all
in know.) Aren't Glasgowites called "Glaswegians", Dave?


"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:l94vnvs72806v1bq7h8e7fsodvb0gvmg2t@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:24:11 -0600, "Gerald G. McGeorge"
> <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote:
>
> >I think my ancestral people are waiting for Mel Gibson to come back &
lead
> >'em again.
> >
> >I was in Glasgow back in '99 and ambled into a local pub. When the locals
> >found out I was a Yank of Scottish descent I never bought another
beer..er,
> >ale, er lager. Funny, though, I couldn't understand a single word some of
> >'em said!
>
> My father is a Scot, but he didn't go on that trip. The Scots are
> great people. The food is so-so. :)
>
>
> >"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:b11unv4k50rplujrai30kpkgi0o7s8calg@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 09:15:14 GMT, "Dave Milne"
> >> <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hah, sort of. We now have a Scottish parliament (good start), but it
> >would
> >> >appear we are incapable of governing ourselves (bad news). The
parliament
> >> >decided they need a nice new building to meet in (not that Edinburgh
is
> >> >exactly short of fine buildings), so they set about building one for
40
> >> >million quid. The total cost so far (and it isnt complete) is 400
million
> >> >quid. A friend of a friend got the contract for covering 400 chairs
with
> >> >leather, which had to be an exotic foreign leather. Having completed
the
> >400
> >> >chairs, he got the contract again to do the same chairs with a
slightly
> >> >different shade of exotic leather. Half way through, some "numpty"
> >decided
> >> >that they had forgotten to mention that the building should be bomb
proof
> >> >allegedly.
> >> >As Scotland has only 5 million people, per head of population that
would
> >be
> >> >equivalent of of 35 billion US on one building..
> >>
> >> I was over in Scotland oh more than a few years back and the Parliment
> >> building was under construction back then! You mean they still haven't
> >> finished it? When I was there it was not even a framework.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >
> >> >"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:vns4ompgnggbcf@corp.supernews.com...
> >> >: Ay the home 'o me Great, Great Grandpappy! Actually he was born in
> >> >Dumfries,
> >> >: but he headed for Edinburgh as a lad, probably had buggered the
Vicar's
> >> >: daughter or something and needed to get out of town fast! :-)
> >> >:
> >> >: Have we declared our once and for all independence from England yet?
> >> >:
> >> >: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> >> >: news:1Mlfb.8193$df6.67254513@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >> >: > I'm an Edinburgh lad !
> >> >: >
> >> >: > --
> >> >: > Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >: >
> >> >: > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> >> >: > news:vnmqteq77jp979@corp.supernews.com...
> >> >: > : Ah, but fear not, Mother Ford is here to help! Pretty soon
you'll
> >be
> >> >: able
> >> >: > to
> >> >: > : buy a Ford-based Land Rover, which won't off-road worth a crap,
but
> >> >: it'll
> >> >: > : start every time!
> >> >: > :
> >> >: > : What part of Scotland are you from, mate?
> >> >: > :
> >> >: > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> >> >: > : news:nyHeb.6286$Uc.52033728@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >> >: > : > Sounds about right.. I shuttle between Edinburgh and Solihull
> >where
> >> >: they
> >> >: > : > make Land Rovers. Despite the fact that Landys have more
> >substantial
> >> >: > : > chassis, suspension and running gear , I didn't buy one - the
> >> >: > electrolytic
> >> >: > : > corrosion from the alloy and steel is bad, the turbo diesel
> >engines
> >> >: are
> >> >: > : crap
> >> >: > : > (and that's all you can get in a Defender - bring back the
61-63
> >> >Buick
> >> >: > : > 3528cc, now 4600cc derived engine from the Disco). My pal got
a
> >> >second
> >> >: > : hand
> >> >: > : > Range Rover recently ; looked a lot better deal than my Jeep,
but
> >> >two
> >> >: > days
> >> >: > : > later it started all by itself, blew its computer and landed
the
> >> >owner
> >> >: > : with
> >> >: > : > a 1600 USD repair bill. Then the heated seats broke etc etc
etc.
> >> >When
> >> >: a
> >> >: > : > Solihull mechanic recommends you avoid LR, there has to be
> >something
> >> >: > wrong
> >> >: > : !
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > : > --
> >> >: > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >: > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > : > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> >> >: > : > news:vnk5bpqquvj3b@corp.supernews.com...
> >> >: > : > : Here in the States Land Rover is a perennial bottom dweller
on
> >our
> >> >: > : > : reliability studies. Some of my old staff from Jaguar USA
are
> >now
> >> >: > : > : responsible for Land Rover and have me in stitches laughing
at
> >> >some
> >> >: of
> >> >: > : the
> >> >: > : > : current LR reliability problems. Having worked for Jaguar
for
> >15
> >> >: > years,
> >> >: > : > : including pre-Ford, it's all "Deja Vu All Over Again". Oil
> >leaks,
> >> >: > : > electrical
> >> >: > : > : problems, corrosion, poor panel fits, bad paint, worn
leather,
> >> >: broken
> >> >: > : > : switchgear...what would we expect, as soon as Ford fired a
> >Jaguar
> >> >: > : > engineer,
> >> >: > : > : he got hired at Rover!
> >> >: > : > :
> >> >: > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> >> >: > : > : news:Cmneb.5277$E%5.44408874@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >> >: > : > : > Landy better than a Jeep for reliability ? Are they
serious
> >??
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >: > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > : > "Gyp" <gyp@localdomain.net> wrote in message
> >> >: > : > : > news:bkrmee$l5u$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> >> >: > : > : > : Lo Jeepers,
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : My other half pointed out an article in a local (UK)
paper
> >> >: (Daily
> >> >: > : > : > : Express). Which quotes from the "Warranty Direct
> >Reliability
> >> >: > index"
> >> >: > : > : > : which is itself compiled from garage bills of 39k cards
> >with
> >> >an
> >> >: > : > average
> >> >: > : > : > : age of 4.8 years and have a average millage of 49,702
> >miles.
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Top of the table was Mazda with an average repair bill
of
> >£275
> >> >: and
> >> >: > a
> >> >: > : > 16%
> >> >: > : > : > : failure rate.
> >> >: > : > : > : Second is Ford with an average repair bill of £207 and a
> >32%
> >> >: > failure
> >> >: > : > : rate
> >> >: > : > : > : Third is Honda with an average repair bill of £277 and a
> >20%
> >> >: > failure
> >> >: > : > : rate)
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Right down at the other end..
> >> >: > : > : > : At 21st comes Land Rover with a average repair bill of
£420
> >> >and
> >> >: a
> >> >: > : 44%
> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill and an average failure rate of 44%
> >> >: > : > : > : 22nd comes Subary with a whopping average repair bill of
> >£1040
> >> >: and
> >> >: > a
> >> >: > : > 21%
> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill
> >> >: > : > : > : and Lastly but not least comes Jeep in 23rd place (last)
> >with
> >> >an
> >> >: > : > average
> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill of £587.92 and an average repair bill of
41%.
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Not great recommendation for the Jeep really, although
> >since
> >> >the
> >> >: > : > highest
> >> >: > : > : > : failure rates in the chart being 4x4 related brands it
> >makes
> >> >me
> >> >: > : wonder
> >> >: > : > : > : quite how much driving an over engineered road vehicle
> >makes
> >> >: > sense.
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Gyp
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : --
> >> >: > : > : > : Jeep at the Threshold
> >> >: > : > : > : http://the-threshold.org/gallery/Jeep
> >> >: > : > : > : --
> >> >: > : > : > : 4x4 Anoraks Offload
> >> >: > : > : > : http://anoraks.uk.net
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > :
> >> >: > : > :
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > :
> >> >: > :
> >> >: >
> >> >: >
> >> >:
> >> >:
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

Gerald G. McGeorge

The Scots were absolutely wonderful and fascinating to sit and chat with,
even if I couldn't understand half what they said most of the time. One old
geezer who lived in the neighborhood near the pub told Brit jokes and had me
in stitches. (He might have been the guy re-skinning the 400 chairs for all
in know.) Aren't Glasgowites called "Glaswegians", Dave?


"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:l94vnvs72806v1bq7h8e7fsodvb0gvmg2t@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:24:11 -0600, "Gerald G. McGeorge"
> <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote:
>
> >I think my ancestral people are waiting for Mel Gibson to come back &
lead
> >'em again.
> >
> >I was in Glasgow back in '99 and ambled into a local pub. When the locals
> >found out I was a Yank of Scottish descent I never bought another
beer..er,
> >ale, er lager. Funny, though, I couldn't understand a single word some of
> >'em said!
>
> My father is a Scot, but he didn't go on that trip. The Scots are
> great people. The food is so-so. :)
>
>
> >"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:b11unv4k50rplujrai30kpkgi0o7s8calg@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 09:15:14 GMT, "Dave Milne"
> >> <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hah, sort of. We now have a Scottish parliament (good start), but it
> >would
> >> >appear we are incapable of governing ourselves (bad news). The
parliament
> >> >decided they need a nice new building to meet in (not that Edinburgh
is
> >> >exactly short of fine buildings), so they set about building one for
40
> >> >million quid. The total cost so far (and it isnt complete) is 400
million
> >> >quid. A friend of a friend got the contract for covering 400 chairs
with
> >> >leather, which had to be an exotic foreign leather. Having completed
the
> >400
> >> >chairs, he got the contract again to do the same chairs with a
slightly
> >> >different shade of exotic leather. Half way through, some "numpty"
> >decided
> >> >that they had forgotten to mention that the building should be bomb
proof
> >> >allegedly.
> >> >As Scotland has only 5 million people, per head of population that
would
> >be
> >> >equivalent of of 35 billion US on one building..
> >>
> >> I was over in Scotland oh more than a few years back and the Parliment
> >> building was under construction back then! You mean they still haven't
> >> finished it? When I was there it was not even a framework.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >
> >> >"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:vns4ompgnggbcf@corp.supernews.com...
> >> >: Ay the home 'o me Great, Great Grandpappy! Actually he was born in
> >> >Dumfries,
> >> >: but he headed for Edinburgh as a lad, probably had buggered the
Vicar's
> >> >: daughter or something and needed to get out of town fast! :-)
> >> >:
> >> >: Have we declared our once and for all independence from England yet?
> >> >:
> >> >: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> >> >: news:1Mlfb.8193$df6.67254513@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >> >: > I'm an Edinburgh lad !
> >> >: >
> >> >: > --
> >> >: > Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >: >
> >> >: > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> >> >: > news:vnmqteq77jp979@corp.supernews.com...
> >> >: > : Ah, but fear not, Mother Ford is here to help! Pretty soon
you'll
> >be
> >> >: able
> >> >: > to
> >> >: > : buy a Ford-based Land Rover, which won't off-road worth a crap,
but
> >> >: it'll
> >> >: > : start every time!
> >> >: > :
> >> >: > : What part of Scotland are you from, mate?
> >> >: > :
> >> >: > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> >> >: > : news:nyHeb.6286$Uc.52033728@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >> >: > : > Sounds about right.. I shuttle between Edinburgh and Solihull
> >where
> >> >: they
> >> >: > : > make Land Rovers. Despite the fact that Landys have more
> >substantial
> >> >: > : > chassis, suspension and running gear , I didn't buy one - the
> >> >: > electrolytic
> >> >: > : > corrosion from the alloy and steel is bad, the turbo diesel
> >engines
> >> >: are
> >> >: > : crap
> >> >: > : > (and that's all you can get in a Defender - bring back the
61-63
> >> >Buick
> >> >: > : > 3528cc, now 4600cc derived engine from the Disco). My pal got
a
> >> >second
> >> >: > : hand
> >> >: > : > Range Rover recently ; looked a lot better deal than my Jeep,
but
> >> >two
> >> >: > days
> >> >: > : > later it started all by itself, blew its computer and landed
the
> >> >owner
> >> >: > : with
> >> >: > : > a 1600 USD repair bill. Then the heated seats broke etc etc
etc.
> >> >When
> >> >: a
> >> >: > : > Solihull mechanic recommends you avoid LR, there has to be
> >something
> >> >: > wrong
> >> >: > : !
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > : > --
> >> >: > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >: > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > : > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
> >> >: > : > news:vnk5bpqquvj3b@corp.supernews.com...
> >> >: > : > : Here in the States Land Rover is a perennial bottom dweller
on
> >our
> >> >: > : > : reliability studies. Some of my old staff from Jaguar USA
are
> >now
> >> >: > : > : responsible for Land Rover and have me in stitches laughing
at
> >> >some
> >> >: of
> >> >: > : the
> >> >: > : > : current LR reliability problems. Having worked for Jaguar
for
> >15
> >> >: > years,
> >> >: > : > : including pre-Ford, it's all "Deja Vu All Over Again". Oil
> >leaks,
> >> >: > : > electrical
> >> >: > : > : problems, corrosion, poor panel fits, bad paint, worn
leather,
> >> >: broken
> >> >: > : > : switchgear...what would we expect, as soon as Ford fired a
> >Jaguar
> >> >: > : > engineer,
> >> >: > : > : he got hired at Rover!
> >> >: > : > :
> >> >: > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> >> >: > : > : news:Cmneb.5277$E%5.44408874@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >> >: > : > : > Landy better than a Jeep for reliability ? Are they
serious
> >??
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> >: > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > : > "Gyp" <gyp@localdomain.net> wrote in message
> >> >: > : > : > news:bkrmee$l5u$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> >> >: > : > : > : Lo Jeepers,
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : My other half pointed out an article in a local (UK)
paper
> >> >: (Daily
> >> >: > : > : > : Express). Which quotes from the "Warranty Direct
> >Reliability
> >> >: > index"
> >> >: > : > : > : which is itself compiled from garage bills of 39k cards
> >with
> >> >an
> >> >: > : > average
> >> >: > : > : > : age of 4.8 years and have a average millage of 49,702
> >miles.
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Top of the table was Mazda with an average repair bill
of
> >£275
> >> >: and
> >> >: > a
> >> >: > : > 16%
> >> >: > : > : > : failure rate.
> >> >: > : > : > : Second is Ford with an average repair bill of £207 and a
> >32%
> >> >: > failure
> >> >: > : > : rate
> >> >: > : > : > : Third is Honda with an average repair bill of £277 and a
> >20%
> >> >: > failure
> >> >: > : > : rate)
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Right down at the other end..
> >> >: > : > : > : At 21st comes Land Rover with a average repair bill of
£420
> >> >and
> >> >: a
> >> >: > : 44%
> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill and an average failure rate of 44%
> >> >: > : > : > : 22nd comes Subary with a whopping average repair bill of
> >£1040
> >> >: and
> >> >: > a
> >> >: > : > 21%
> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill
> >> >: > : > : > : and Lastly but not least comes Jeep in 23rd place (last)
> >with
> >> >an
> >> >: > : > average
> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill of £587.92 and an average repair bill of
41%.
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Not great recommendation for the Jeep really, although
> >since
> >> >the
> >> >: > : > highest
> >> >: > : > : > : failure rates in the chart being 4x4 related brands it
> >makes
> >> >me
> >> >: > : wonder
> >> >: > : > : > : quite how much driving an over engineered road vehicle
> >makes
> >> >: > sense.
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : Gyp
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : > : --
> >> >: > : > : > : Jeep at the Threshold
> >> >: > : > : > : http://the-threshold.org/gallery/Jeep
> >> >: > : > : > : --
> >> >: > : > : > : 4x4 Anoraks Offload
> >> >: > : > : > : http://anoraks.uk.net
> >> >: > : > : > :
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > : >
> >> >: > : > :
> >> >: > : > :
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > : >
> >> >: > :
> >> >: > :
> >> >: >
> >> >: >
> >> >:
> >> >:
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

Scooby Don't

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 22:43:30 -0600, "Gerald G. McGeorge"
<gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote:

>The Scots were absolutely wonderful and fascinating to sit and chat with,
>even if I couldn't understand half what they said most of the time. One old
>geezer who lived in the neighborhood near the pub told Brit jokes and had me
>in stitches. (He might have been the guy re-skinning the 400 chairs for all
>in know.) Aren't Glasgowites called "Glaswegians", Dave?

Yeah they are a riot. I stayed in Glasgow and I like it but the Scots
over in Edinburgh hate each other.
I was chatting with one guy and he said we like Gallons not Litres,
Miles and not Kilometres. He had a few choice things to say about the
English. Great people the Scots.



>
>
>"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:l94vnvs72806v1bq7h8e7fsodvb0gvmg2t@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:24:11 -0600, "Gerald G. McGeorge"
>> <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I think my ancestral people are waiting for Mel Gibson to come back &
>lead
>> >'em again.
>> >
>> >I was in Glasgow back in '99 and ambled into a local pub. When the locals
>> >found out I was a Yank of Scottish descent I never bought another
>beer..er,
>> >ale, er lager. Funny, though, I couldn't understand a single word some of
>> >'em said!
>>
>> My father is a Scot, but he didn't go on that trip. The Scots are
>> great people. The food is so-so. :)
>>
>>
>> >"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:b11unv4k50rplujrai30kpkgi0o7s8calg@4ax.com.. .
>> >> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 09:15:14 GMT, "Dave Milne"
>> >> <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Hah, sort of. We now have a Scottish parliament (good start), but it
>> >would
>> >> >appear we are incapable of governing ourselves (bad news). The
>parliament
>> >> >decided they need a nice new building to meet in (not that Edinburgh
>is
>> >> >exactly short of fine buildings), so they set about building one for
>40
>> >> >million quid. The total cost so far (and it isnt complete) is 400
>million
>> >> >quid. A friend of a friend got the contract for covering 400 chairs
>with
>> >> >leather, which had to be an exotic foreign leather. Having completed
>the
>> >400
>> >> >chairs, he got the contract again to do the same chairs with a
>slightly
>> >> >different shade of exotic leather. Half way through, some "numpty"
>> >decided
>> >> >that they had forgotten to mention that the building should be bomb
>proof
>> >> >allegedly.
>> >> >As Scotland has only 5 million people, per head of population that
>would
>> >be
>> >> >equivalent of of 35 billion US on one building..
>> >>
>> >> I was over in Scotland oh more than a few years back and the Parliment
>> >> building was under construction back then! You mean they still haven't
>> >> finished it? When I was there it was not even a framework.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >
>> >> >"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
>> >> >news:vns4ompgnggbcf@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> >: Ay the home 'o me Great, Great Grandpappy! Actually he was born in
>> >> >Dumfries,
>> >> >: but he headed for Edinburgh as a lad, probably had buggered the
>Vicar's
>> >> >: daughter or something and needed to get out of town fast! :-)
>> >> >:
>> >> >: Have we declared our once and for all independence from England yet?
>> >> >:
>> >> >: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
>> >> >: news:1Mlfb.8193$df6.67254513@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> >> >: > I'm an Edinburgh lad !
>> >> >: >
>> >> >: > --
>> >> >: > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >: >
>> >> >: > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
>> >> >: > news:vnmqteq77jp979@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> >: > : Ah, but fear not, Mother Ford is here to help! Pretty soon
>you'll
>> >be
>> >> >: able
>> >> >: > to
>> >> >: > : buy a Ford-based Land Rover, which won't off-road worth a crap,
>but
>> >> >: it'll
>> >> >: > : start every time!
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: > : What part of Scotland are you from, mate?
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : news:nyHeb.6286$Uc.52033728@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> >> >: > : > Sounds about right.. I shuttle between Edinburgh and Solihull
>> >where
>> >> >: they
>> >> >: > : > make Land Rovers. Despite the fact that Landys have more
>> >substantial
>> >> >: > : > chassis, suspension and running gear , I didn't buy one - the
>> >> >: > electrolytic
>> >> >: > : > corrosion from the alloy and steel is bad, the turbo diesel
>> >engines
>> >> >: are
>> >> >: > : crap
>> >> >: > : > (and that's all you can get in a Defender - bring back the
>61-63
>> >> >Buick
>> >> >: > : > 3528cc, now 4600cc derived engine from the Disco). My pal got
>a
>> >> >second
>> >> >: > : hand
>> >> >: > : > Range Rover recently ; looked a lot better deal than my Jeep,
>but
>> >> >two
>> >> >: > days
>> >> >: > : > later it started all by itself, blew its computer and landed
>the
>> >> >owner
>> >> >: > : with
>> >> >: > : > a 1600 USD repair bill. Then the heated seats broke etc etc
>etc.
>> >> >When
>> >> >: a
>> >> >: > : > Solihull mechanic recommends you avoid LR, there has to be
>> >something
>> >> >: > wrong
>> >> >: > : !
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > : > --
>> >> >: > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >: > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > : > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : > news:vnk5bpqquvj3b@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> >: > : > : Here in the States Land Rover is a perennial bottom dweller
>on
>> >our
>> >> >: > : > : reliability studies. Some of my old staff from Jaguar USA
>are
>> >now
>> >> >: > : > : responsible for Land Rover and have me in stitches laughing
>at
>> >> >some
>> >> >: of
>> >> >: > : the
>> >> >: > : > : current LR reliability problems. Having worked for Jaguar
>for
>> >15
>> >> >: > years,
>> >> >: > : > : including pre-Ford, it's all "Deja Vu All Over Again". Oil
>> >leaks,
>> >> >: > : > electrical
>> >> >: > : > : problems, corrosion, poor panel fits, bad paint, worn
>leather,
>> >> >: broken
>> >> >: > : > : switchgear...what would we expect, as soon as Ford fired a
>> >Jaguar
>> >> >: > : > engineer,
>> >> >: > : > : he got hired at Rover!
>> >> >: > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : > : news:Cmneb.5277$E%5.44408874@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> >> >: > : > : > Landy better than a Jeep for reliability ? Are they
>serious
>> >??
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >: > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > : > "Gyp" <gyp@localdomain.net> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : > : > news:bkrmee$l5u$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>> >> >: > : > : > : Lo Jeepers,
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : My other half pointed out an article in a local (UK)
>paper
>> >> >: (Daily
>> >> >: > : > : > : Express). Which quotes from the "Warranty Direct
>> >Reliability
>> >> >: > index"
>> >> >: > : > : > : which is itself compiled from garage bills of 39k cards
>> >with
>> >> >an
>> >> >: > : > average
>> >> >: > : > : > : age of 4.8 years and have a average millage of 49,702
>> >miles.
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Top of the table was Mazda with an average repair bill
>of
>> >£275
>> >> >: and
>> >> >: > a
>> >> >: > : > 16%
>> >> >: > : > : > : failure rate.
>> >> >: > : > : > : Second is Ford with an average repair bill of £207 and a
>> >32%
>> >> >: > failure
>> >> >: > : > : rate
>> >> >: > : > : > : Third is Honda with an average repair bill of £277 and a
>> >20%
>> >> >: > failure
>> >> >: > : > : rate)
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Right down at the other end..
>> >> >: > : > : > : At 21st comes Land Rover with a average repair bill of
>£420
>> >> >and
>> >> >: a
>> >> >: > : 44%
>> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill and an average failure rate of 44%
>> >> >: > : > : > : 22nd comes Subary with a whopping average repair bill of
>> >£1040
>> >> >: and
>> >> >: > a
>> >> >: > : > 21%
>> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill
>> >> >: > : > : > : and Lastly but not least comes Jeep in 23rd place (last)
>> >with
>> >> >an
>> >> >: > : > average
>> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill of £587.92 and an average repair bill of
>41%.
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Not great recommendation for the Jeep really, although
>> >since
>> >> >the
>> >> >: > : > highest
>> >> >: > : > : > : failure rates in the chart being 4x4 related brands it
>> >makes
>> >> >me
>> >> >: > : wonder
>> >> >: > : > : > : quite how much driving an over engineered road vehicle
>> >makes
>> >> >: > sense.
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Gyp
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : --
>> >> >: > : > : > : Jeep at the Threshold
>> >> >: > : > : > : http://the-threshold.org/gallery/Jeep
>> >> >: > : > : > : --
>> >> >: > : > : > : 4x4 Anoraks Offload
>> >> >: > : > : > : http://anoraks.uk.net
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > :
>> >> >: > : > :
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: >
>> >> >: >
>> >> >:
>> >> >:
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

Scooby Don't

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 22:43:30 -0600, "Gerald G. McGeorge"
<gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote:

>The Scots were absolutely wonderful and fascinating to sit and chat with,
>even if I couldn't understand half what they said most of the time. One old
>geezer who lived in the neighborhood near the pub told Brit jokes and had me
>in stitches. (He might have been the guy re-skinning the 400 chairs for all
>in know.) Aren't Glasgowites called "Glaswegians", Dave?

Yeah they are a riot. I stayed in Glasgow and I like it but the Scots
over in Edinburgh hate each other.
I was chatting with one guy and he said we like Gallons not Litres,
Miles and not Kilometres. He had a few choice things to say about the
English. Great people the Scots.



>
>
>"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:l94vnvs72806v1bq7h8e7fsodvb0gvmg2t@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:24:11 -0600, "Gerald G. McGeorge"
>> <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I think my ancestral people are waiting for Mel Gibson to come back &
>lead
>> >'em again.
>> >
>> >I was in Glasgow back in '99 and ambled into a local pub. When the locals
>> >found out I was a Yank of Scottish descent I never bought another
>beer..er,
>> >ale, er lager. Funny, though, I couldn't understand a single word some of
>> >'em said!
>>
>> My father is a Scot, but he didn't go on that trip. The Scots are
>> great people. The food is so-so. :)
>>
>>
>> >"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:b11unv4k50rplujrai30kpkgi0o7s8calg@4ax.com.. .
>> >> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 09:15:14 GMT, "Dave Milne"
>> >> <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Hah, sort of. We now have a Scottish parliament (good start), but it
>> >would
>> >> >appear we are incapable of governing ourselves (bad news). The
>parliament
>> >> >decided they need a nice new building to meet in (not that Edinburgh
>is
>> >> >exactly short of fine buildings), so they set about building one for
>40
>> >> >million quid. The total cost so far (and it isnt complete) is 400
>million
>> >> >quid. A friend of a friend got the contract for covering 400 chairs
>with
>> >> >leather, which had to be an exotic foreign leather. Having completed
>the
>> >400
>> >> >chairs, he got the contract again to do the same chairs with a
>slightly
>> >> >different shade of exotic leather. Half way through, some "numpty"
>> >decided
>> >> >that they had forgotten to mention that the building should be bomb
>proof
>> >> >allegedly.
>> >> >As Scotland has only 5 million people, per head of population that
>would
>> >be
>> >> >equivalent of of 35 billion US on one building..
>> >>
>> >> I was over in Scotland oh more than a few years back and the Parliment
>> >> building was under construction back then! You mean they still haven't
>> >> finished it? When I was there it was not even a framework.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >
>> >> >"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
>> >> >news:vns4ompgnggbcf@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> >: Ay the home 'o me Great, Great Grandpappy! Actually he was born in
>> >> >Dumfries,
>> >> >: but he headed for Edinburgh as a lad, probably had buggered the
>Vicar's
>> >> >: daughter or something and needed to get out of town fast! :-)
>> >> >:
>> >> >: Have we declared our once and for all independence from England yet?
>> >> >:
>> >> >: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
>> >> >: news:1Mlfb.8193$df6.67254513@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> >> >: > I'm an Edinburgh lad !
>> >> >: >
>> >> >: > --
>> >> >: > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >: >
>> >> >: > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
>> >> >: > news:vnmqteq77jp979@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> >: > : Ah, but fear not, Mother Ford is here to help! Pretty soon
>you'll
>> >be
>> >> >: able
>> >> >: > to
>> >> >: > : buy a Ford-based Land Rover, which won't off-road worth a crap,
>but
>> >> >: it'll
>> >> >: > : start every time!
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: > : What part of Scotland are you from, mate?
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : news:nyHeb.6286$Uc.52033728@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> >> >: > : > Sounds about right.. I shuttle between Edinburgh and Solihull
>> >where
>> >> >: they
>> >> >: > : > make Land Rovers. Despite the fact that Landys have more
>> >substantial
>> >> >: > : > chassis, suspension and running gear , I didn't buy one - the
>> >> >: > electrolytic
>> >> >: > : > corrosion from the alloy and steel is bad, the turbo diesel
>> >engines
>> >> >: are
>> >> >: > : crap
>> >> >: > : > (and that's all you can get in a Defender - bring back the
>61-63
>> >> >Buick
>> >> >: > : > 3528cc, now 4600cc derived engine from the Disco). My pal got
>a
>> >> >second
>> >> >: > : hand
>> >> >: > : > Range Rover recently ; looked a lot better deal than my Jeep,
>but
>> >> >two
>> >> >: > days
>> >> >: > : > later it started all by itself, blew its computer and landed
>the
>> >> >owner
>> >> >: > : with
>> >> >: > : > a 1600 USD repair bill. Then the heated seats broke etc etc
>etc.
>> >> >When
>> >> >: a
>> >> >: > : > Solihull mechanic recommends you avoid LR, there has to be
>> >something
>> >> >: > wrong
>> >> >: > : !
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > : > --
>> >> >: > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >: > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > : > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : > news:vnk5bpqquvj3b@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> >: > : > : Here in the States Land Rover is a perennial bottom dweller
>on
>> >our
>> >> >: > : > : reliability studies. Some of my old staff from Jaguar USA
>are
>> >now
>> >> >: > : > : responsible for Land Rover and have me in stitches laughing
>at
>> >> >some
>> >> >: of
>> >> >: > : the
>> >> >: > : > : current LR reliability problems. Having worked for Jaguar
>for
>> >15
>> >> >: > years,
>> >> >: > : > : including pre-Ford, it's all "Deja Vu All Over Again". Oil
>> >leaks,
>> >> >: > : > electrical
>> >> >: > : > : problems, corrosion, poor panel fits, bad paint, worn
>leather,
>> >> >: broken
>> >> >: > : > : switchgear...what would we expect, as soon as Ford fired a
>> >Jaguar
>> >> >: > : > engineer,
>> >> >: > : > : he got hired at Rover!
>> >> >: > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : > : news:Cmneb.5277$E%5.44408874@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> >> >: > : > : > Landy better than a Jeep for reliability ? Are they
>serious
>> >??
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >: > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > : > "Gyp" <gyp@localdomain.net> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : > : > news:bkrmee$l5u$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>> >> >: > : > : > : Lo Jeepers,
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : My other half pointed out an article in a local (UK)
>paper
>> >> >: (Daily
>> >> >: > : > : > : Express). Which quotes from the "Warranty Direct
>> >Reliability
>> >> >: > index"
>> >> >: > : > : > : which is itself compiled from garage bills of 39k cards
>> >with
>> >> >an
>> >> >: > : > average
>> >> >: > : > : > : age of 4.8 years and have a average millage of 49,702
>> >miles.
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Top of the table was Mazda with an average repair bill
>of
>> >£275
>> >> >: and
>> >> >: > a
>> >> >: > : > 16%
>> >> >: > : > : > : failure rate.
>> >> >: > : > : > : Second is Ford with an average repair bill of £207 and a
>> >32%
>> >> >: > failure
>> >> >: > : > : rate
>> >> >: > : > : > : Third is Honda with an average repair bill of £277 and a
>> >20%
>> >> >: > failure
>> >> >: > : > : rate)
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Right down at the other end..
>> >> >: > : > : > : At 21st comes Land Rover with a average repair bill of
>£420
>> >> >and
>> >> >: a
>> >> >: > : 44%
>> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill and an average failure rate of 44%
>> >> >: > : > : > : 22nd comes Subary with a whopping average repair bill of
>> >£1040
>> >> >: and
>> >> >: > a
>> >> >: > : > 21%
>> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill
>> >> >: > : > : > : and Lastly but not least comes Jeep in 23rd place (last)
>> >with
>> >> >an
>> >> >: > : > average
>> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill of £587.92 and an average repair bill of
>41%.
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Not great recommendation for the Jeep really, although
>> >since
>> >> >the
>> >> >: > : > highest
>> >> >: > : > : > : failure rates in the chart being 4x4 related brands it
>> >makes
>> >> >me
>> >> >: > : wonder
>> >> >: > : > : > : quite how much driving an over engineered road vehicle
>> >makes
>> >> >: > sense.
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Gyp
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : --
>> >> >: > : > : > : Jeep at the Threshold
>> >> >: > : > : > : http://the-threshold.org/gallery/Jeep
>> >> >: > : > : > : --
>> >> >: > : > : > : 4x4 Anoraks Offload
>> >> >: > : > : > : http://anoraks.uk.net
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > :
>> >> >: > : > :
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: >
>> >> >: >
>> >> >:
>> >> >:
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

Scooby Don't

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 22:43:30 -0600, "Gerald G. McGeorge"
<gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote:

>The Scots were absolutely wonderful and fascinating to sit and chat with,
>even if I couldn't understand half what they said most of the time. One old
>geezer who lived in the neighborhood near the pub told Brit jokes and had me
>in stitches. (He might have been the guy re-skinning the 400 chairs for all
>in know.) Aren't Glasgowites called "Glaswegians", Dave?

Yeah they are a riot. I stayed in Glasgow and I like it but the Scots
over in Edinburgh hate each other.
I was chatting with one guy and he said we like Gallons not Litres,
Miles and not Kilometres. He had a few choice things to say about the
English. Great people the Scots.



>
>
>"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:l94vnvs72806v1bq7h8e7fsodvb0gvmg2t@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:24:11 -0600, "Gerald G. McGeorge"
>> <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I think my ancestral people are waiting for Mel Gibson to come back &
>lead
>> >'em again.
>> >
>> >I was in Glasgow back in '99 and ambled into a local pub. When the locals
>> >found out I was a Yank of Scottish descent I never bought another
>beer..er,
>> >ale, er lager. Funny, though, I couldn't understand a single word some of
>> >'em said!
>>
>> My father is a Scot, but he didn't go on that trip. The Scots are
>> great people. The food is so-so. :)
>>
>>
>> >"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:b11unv4k50rplujrai30kpkgi0o7s8calg@4ax.com.. .
>> >> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 09:15:14 GMT, "Dave Milne"
>> >> <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Hah, sort of. We now have a Scottish parliament (good start), but it
>> >would
>> >> >appear we are incapable of governing ourselves (bad news). The
>parliament
>> >> >decided they need a nice new building to meet in (not that Edinburgh
>is
>> >> >exactly short of fine buildings), so they set about building one for
>40
>> >> >million quid. The total cost so far (and it isnt complete) is 400
>million
>> >> >quid. A friend of a friend got the contract for covering 400 chairs
>with
>> >> >leather, which had to be an exotic foreign leather. Having completed
>the
>> >400
>> >> >chairs, he got the contract again to do the same chairs with a
>slightly
>> >> >different shade of exotic leather. Half way through, some "numpty"
>> >decided
>> >> >that they had forgotten to mention that the building should be bomb
>proof
>> >> >allegedly.
>> >> >As Scotland has only 5 million people, per head of population that
>would
>> >be
>> >> >equivalent of of 35 billion US on one building..
>> >>
>> >> I was over in Scotland oh more than a few years back and the Parliment
>> >> building was under construction back then! You mean they still haven't
>> >> finished it? When I was there it was not even a framework.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >
>> >> >"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
>> >> >news:vns4ompgnggbcf@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> >: Ay the home 'o me Great, Great Grandpappy! Actually he was born in
>> >> >Dumfries,
>> >> >: but he headed for Edinburgh as a lad, probably had buggered the
>Vicar's
>> >> >: daughter or something and needed to get out of town fast! :-)
>> >> >:
>> >> >: Have we declared our once and for all independence from England yet?
>> >> >:
>> >> >: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
>> >> >: news:1Mlfb.8193$df6.67254513@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> >> >: > I'm an Edinburgh lad !
>> >> >: >
>> >> >: > --
>> >> >: > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >: >
>> >> >: > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
>> >> >: > news:vnmqteq77jp979@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> >: > : Ah, but fear not, Mother Ford is here to help! Pretty soon
>you'll
>> >be
>> >> >: able
>> >> >: > to
>> >> >: > : buy a Ford-based Land Rover, which won't off-road worth a crap,
>but
>> >> >: it'll
>> >> >: > : start every time!
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: > : What part of Scotland are you from, mate?
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : news:nyHeb.6286$Uc.52033728@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> >> >: > : > Sounds about right.. I shuttle between Edinburgh and Solihull
>> >where
>> >> >: they
>> >> >: > : > make Land Rovers. Despite the fact that Landys have more
>> >substantial
>> >> >: > : > chassis, suspension and running gear , I didn't buy one - the
>> >> >: > electrolytic
>> >> >: > : > corrosion from the alloy and steel is bad, the turbo diesel
>> >engines
>> >> >: are
>> >> >: > : crap
>> >> >: > : > (and that's all you can get in a Defender - bring back the
>61-63
>> >> >Buick
>> >> >: > : > 3528cc, now 4600cc derived engine from the Disco). My pal got
>a
>> >> >second
>> >> >: > : hand
>> >> >: > : > Range Rover recently ; looked a lot better deal than my Jeep,
>but
>> >> >two
>> >> >: > days
>> >> >: > : > later it started all by itself, blew its computer and landed
>the
>> >> >owner
>> >> >: > : with
>> >> >: > : > a 1600 USD repair bill. Then the heated seats broke etc etc
>etc.
>> >> >When
>> >> >: a
>> >> >: > : > Solihull mechanic recommends you avoid LR, there has to be
>> >something
>> >> >: > wrong
>> >> >: > : !
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > : > --
>> >> >: > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >: > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > : > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : > news:vnk5bpqquvj3b@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> >: > : > : Here in the States Land Rover is a perennial bottom dweller
>on
>> >our
>> >> >: > : > : reliability studies. Some of my old staff from Jaguar USA
>are
>> >now
>> >> >: > : > : responsible for Land Rover and have me in stitches laughing
>at
>> >> >some
>> >> >: of
>> >> >: > : the
>> >> >: > : > : current LR reliability problems. Having worked for Jaguar
>for
>> >15
>> >> >: > years,
>> >> >: > : > : including pre-Ford, it's all "Deja Vu All Over Again". Oil
>> >leaks,
>> >> >: > : > electrical
>> >> >: > : > : problems, corrosion, poor panel fits, bad paint, worn
>leather,
>> >> >: broken
>> >> >: > : > : switchgear...what would we expect, as soon as Ford fired a
>> >Jaguar
>> >> >: > : > engineer,
>> >> >: > : > : he got hired at Rover!
>> >> >: > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : > : news:Cmneb.5277$E%5.44408874@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> >> >: > : > : > Landy better than a Jeep for reliability ? Are they
>serious
>> >??
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> >: > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > : > "Gyp" <gyp@localdomain.net> wrote in message
>> >> >: > : > : > news:bkrmee$l5u$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>> >> >: > : > : > : Lo Jeepers,
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : My other half pointed out an article in a local (UK)
>paper
>> >> >: (Daily
>> >> >: > : > : > : Express). Which quotes from the "Warranty Direct
>> >Reliability
>> >> >: > index"
>> >> >: > : > : > : which is itself compiled from garage bills of 39k cards
>> >with
>> >> >an
>> >> >: > : > average
>> >> >: > : > : > : age of 4.8 years and have a average millage of 49,702
>> >miles.
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Top of the table was Mazda with an average repair bill
>of
>> >£275
>> >> >: and
>> >> >: > a
>> >> >: > : > 16%
>> >> >: > : > : > : failure rate.
>> >> >: > : > : > : Second is Ford with an average repair bill of £207 and a
>> >32%
>> >> >: > failure
>> >> >: > : > : rate
>> >> >: > : > : > : Third is Honda with an average repair bill of £277 and a
>> >20%
>> >> >: > failure
>> >> >: > : > : rate)
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Right down at the other end..
>> >> >: > : > : > : At 21st comes Land Rover with a average repair bill of
>£420
>> >> >and
>> >> >: a
>> >> >: > : 44%
>> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill and an average failure rate of 44%
>> >> >: > : > : > : 22nd comes Subary with a whopping average repair bill of
>> >£1040
>> >> >: and
>> >> >: > a
>> >> >: > : > 21%
>> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill
>> >> >: > : > : > : and Lastly but not least comes Jeep in 23rd place (last)
>> >with
>> >> >an
>> >> >: > : > average
>> >> >: > : > : > : repair bill of £587.92 and an average repair bill of
>41%.
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Not great recommendation for the Jeep really, although
>> >since
>> >> >the
>> >> >: > : > highest
>> >> >: > : > : > : failure rates in the chart being 4x4 related brands it
>> >makes
>> >> >me
>> >> >: > : wonder
>> >> >: > : > : > : quite how much driving an over engineered road vehicle
>> >makes
>> >> >: > sense.
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : Gyp
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : > : --
>> >> >: > : > : > : Jeep at the Threshold
>> >> >: > : > : > : http://the-threshold.org/gallery/Jeep
>> >> >: > : > : > : --
>> >> >: > : > : > : 4x4 Anoraks Offload
>> >> >: > : > : > : http://anoraks.uk.net
>> >> >: > : > : > :
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > : >
>> >> >: > : > :
>> >> >: > : > :
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > : >
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: > :
>> >> >: >
>> >> >: >
>> >> >:
>> >> >:
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

Dave Milne

Glaswegians are called "weegies", or "keelies". It's best not to call them
the latter to their faces heh heh.

numerous jokes exist about them e.g.

"what do you call a weegie man wearing a suit ? (the Accused)""
"what do you call a weegie women wearing a shell suit ? (the Bride)"

etc etc

Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara

"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
news:vnv8gaf34e7j78@corp.supernews.com...
: The Scots were absolutely wonderful and fascinating to sit and chat with,
: even if I couldn't understand half what they said most of the time. One
old
: geezer who lived in the neighborhood near the pub told Brit jokes and had
me
: in stitches. (He might have been the guy re-skinning the 400 chairs for
all
: in know.) Aren't Glasgowites called "Glaswegians", Dave?
:
:
: "Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: news:l94vnvs72806v1bq7h8e7fsodvb0gvmg2t@4ax.com...
: > On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:24:11 -0600, "Gerald G. McGeorge"
: > <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote:
: >
: > >I think my ancestral people are waiting for Mel Gibson to come back &
: lead
: > >'em again.
: > >
: > >I was in Glasgow back in '99 and ambled into a local pub. When the
locals
: > >found out I was a Yank of Scottish descent I never bought another
: beer..er,
: > >ale, er lager. Funny, though, I couldn't understand a single word some
of
: > >'em said!
: >
: > My father is a Scot, but he didn't go on that trip. The Scots are
: > great people. The food is so-so. :)
: >
: >
: > >"Scooby Don't" <Scooby_do_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: > >news:b11unv4k50rplujrai30kpkgi0o7s8calg@4ax.com.. .
: > >> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 09:15:14 GMT, "Dave Milne"
: > >> <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:
: > >>
: > >> >Hah, sort of. We now have a Scottish parliament (good start), but it
: > >would
: > >> >appear we are incapable of governing ourselves (bad news). The
: parliament
: > >> >decided they need a nice new building to meet in (not that Edinburgh
: is
: > >> >exactly short of fine buildings), so they set about building one for
: 40
: > >> >million quid. The total cost so far (and it isnt complete) is 400
: million
: > >> >quid. A friend of a friend got the contract for covering 400 chairs
: with
: > >> >leather, which had to be an exotic foreign leather. Having completed
: the
: > >400
: > >> >chairs, he got the contract again to do the same chairs with a
: slightly
: > >> >different shade of exotic leather. Half way through, some "numpty"
: > >decided
: > >> >that they had forgotten to mention that the building should be bomb
: proof
: > >> >allegedly.
: > >> >As Scotland has only 5 million people, per head of population that
: would
: > >be
: > >> >equivalent of of 35 billion US on one building..
: > >>
: > >> I was over in Scotland oh more than a few years back and the
Parliment
: > >> building was under construction back then! You mean they still
haven't
: > >> finished it? When I was there it was not even a framework.
: > >>
: > >>
: > >>
: > >> >
: > >> >Dave Milne, Scotland
: > >> >'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > >> >
: > >> >"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
: > >> >news:vns4ompgnggbcf@corp.supernews.com...
: > >> >: Ay the home 'o me Great, Great Grandpappy! Actually he was born in
: > >> >Dumfries,
: > >> >: but he headed for Edinburgh as a lad, probably had buggered the
: Vicar's
: > >> >: daughter or something and needed to get out of town fast! :-)
: > >> >:
: > >> >: Have we declared our once and for all independence from England
yet?
: > >> >:
: > >> >: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > >> >: news:1Mlfb.8193$df6.67254513@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > >> >: > I'm an Edinburgh lad !
: > >> >: >
: > >> >: > --
: > >> >: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > >> >: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > >> >: >
: > >> >: > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in message
: > >> >: > news:vnmqteq77jp979@corp.supernews.com...
: > >> >: > : Ah, but fear not, Mother Ford is here to help! Pretty soon
: you'll
: > >be
: > >> >: able
: > >> >: > to
: > >> >: > : buy a Ford-based Land Rover, which won't off-road worth a
crap,
: but
: > >> >: it'll
: > >> >: > : start every time!
: > >> >: > :
: > >> >: > : What part of Scotland are you from, mate?
: > >> >: > :
: > >> >: > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > >> >: > : news:nyHeb.6286$Uc.52033728@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > >> >: > : > Sounds about right.. I shuttle between Edinburgh and
Solihull
: > >where
: > >> >: they
: > >> >: > : > make Land Rovers. Despite the fact that Landys have more
: > >substantial
: > >> >: > : > chassis, suspension and running gear , I didn't buy one -
the
: > >> >: > electrolytic
: > >> >: > : > corrosion from the alloy and steel is bad, the turbo diesel
: > >engines
: > >> >: are
: > >> >: > : crap
: > >> >: > : > (and that's all you can get in a Defender - bring back the
: 61-63
: > >> >Buick
: > >> >: > : > 3528cc, now 4600cc derived engine from the Disco). My pal
got
: a
: > >> >second
: > >> >: > : hand
: > >> >: > : > Range Rover recently ; looked a lot better deal than my
Jeep,
: but
: > >> >two
: > >> >: > days
: > >> >: > : > later it started all by itself, blew its computer and landed
: the
: > >> >owner
: > >> >: > : with
: > >> >: > : > a 1600 USD repair bill. Then the heated seats broke etc etc
: etc.
: > >> >When
: > >> >: a
: > >> >: > : > Solihull mechanic recommends you avoid LR, there has to be
: > >something
: > >> >: > wrong
: > >> >: > : !
: > >> >: > : >
: > >> >: > : > --
: > >> >: > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > >> >: > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > >> >: > : >
: > >> >: > : > "Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorge@frontier.net> wrote in
message
: > >> >: > : > news:vnk5bpqquvj3b@corp.supernews.com...
: > >> >: > : > : Here in the States Land Rover is a perennial bottom
dweller
: on
: > >our
: > >> >: > : > : reliability studies. Some of my old staff from Jaguar USA
: are
: > >now
: > >> >: > : > : responsible for Land Rover and have me in stitches
laughing
: at
: > >> >some
: > >> >: of
: > >> >: > : the
: > >> >: > : > : current LR reliability problems. Having worked for Jaguar
: for
: > >15
: > >> >: > years,
: > >> >: > : > : including pre-Ford, it's all "Deja Vu All Over Again". Oil
: > >leaks,
: > >> >: > : > electrical
: > >> >: > : > : problems, corrosion, poor panel fits, bad paint, worn
: leather,
: > >> >: broken
: > >> >: > : > : switchgear...what would we expect, as soon as Ford fired a
: > >Jaguar
: > >> >: > : > engineer,
: > >> >: > : > : he got hired at Rover!
: > >> >: > : > :
: > >> >: > : > : "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > >> >: > : > : news:Cmneb.5277$E%5.44408874@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > >> >: > : > : > Landy better than a Jeep for reliability ? Are they
: serious
: > >??
: > >> >: > : > : >
: > >> >: > : > : > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > >> >: > : > : > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: > >> >: > : > : >
: > >> >: > : > : > "Gyp" <gyp@localdomain.net> wrote in message
: > >> >: > : > : > news:bkrmee$l5u$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
: > >> >: > : > : > : Lo Jeepers,
: > >> >: > : > : > :
: > >> >: > : > : > : My other half pointed out an article in a local (UK)
: paper
: > >> >: (Daily
: > >> >: > : > : > : Express). Which quotes from the "Warranty Direct
: > >Reliability
: > >> >: > index"
: > >> >: > : > : > : which is itself compiled from garage bills of 39k
cards
: > >with
: > >> >an
: > >> >: > : > average
: > >> >: > : > : > : age of 4.8 years and have a average millage of 49,702
: > >miles.
: > >> >: > : > : > :
: > >> >: > : > : > : Top of the table was Mazda with an average repair bill
: of
: > >£275
: > >> >: and
: > >> >: > a
: > >> >: > : > 16%
: > >> >: > : > : > : failure rate.
: > >> >: > : > : > : Second is Ford with an average repair bill of £207 and
a
: > >32%
: > >> >: > failure
: > >> >: > : > : rate
: > >> >: > : > : > : Third is Honda with an average repair bill of £277 and
a
: > >20%
: > >> >: > failure
: > >> >: > : > : rate)
: > >> >: > : > : > :
: > >> >: > : > : > : Right down at the other end..
: > >> >: > : > : > : At 21st comes Land Rover with a average repair bill of
: £420
: > >> >and
: > >> >: a
: > >> >: > : 44%
: > >> >: > : > : > : repair bill and an average failure rate of 44%
: > >> >: > : > : > : 22nd comes Subary with a whopping average repair bill
of
: > >£1040
: > >> >: and
: > >> >: > a
: > >> >: > : > 21%
: > >> >: > : > : > : repair bill
: > >> >: > : > : > : and Lastly but not least comes Jeep in 23rd place
(last)
: > >with
: > >> >an
: > >> >: > : > average
: > >> >: > : > : > : repair bill of £587.92 and an average repair bill of
: 41%.
: > >> >: > : > : > :
: > >> >: > : > : > :
: > >> >: > : > : > : Not great recommendation for the Jeep really, although
: > >since
: > >> >the
: > >> >: > : > highest
: > >> >: > : > : > : failure rates in the chart being 4x4 related brands it
: > >makes
: > >> >me
: > >> >: > : wonder
: > >> >: > : > : > : quite how much driving an over engineered road vehicle
: > >makes
: > >> >: > sense.
: > >> >: > : > : > :
: > >> >: > : > : > : Gyp
: > >> >: > : > : > :
: > >> >: > : > : > : --
: > >> >: > : > : > : Jeep at the Threshold
: > >> >: > : > : > : http://the-threshold.org/gallery/Jeep
: > >> >: > : > : > : --
: > >> >: > : > : > : 4x4 Anoraks Offload
: > >> >: > : > : > : http://anoraks.uk.net
: > >> >: > : > : > :
: > >> >: > : > : >
: > >> >: > : > : >
: > >> >: > : > :
: > >> >: > : > :
: > >> >: > : >
: > >> >: > : >
: > >> >: > :
: > >> >: > :
: > >> >: >
: > >> >: >
: > >> >:
: > >> >:
: > >> >
: > >>
: > >
: >
:
: