Ted

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3FBE358A.12002511@mindspring.com...
>
>
> "Dan J.S." wrote:
>
> > "Paul Thomas" <Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com> wrote in message
> > news:8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.co m...
> > > I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
> > > discussion about this SUV in the newsgroups. I understand overall it
> > > is a pretty good vehicle. There are a couple of things about liberty
> > > that I would like to know. Safety and Reliability.
> > >
> > > Safety : How safe is it? I am new to SUVs and I hear that SUVs are
> > > vulnerable to tip over. How is jeep's record on this? How about other
> > > safety features?
> > >
> > >
> > > Reliability : How reliable is Liberty? I am going to use it only to
> > > commute to and from work and may be some camping. Strictly no rock
> > > climbing or extreme off roading of any sort. If you give Honda a
> > > reliability rating of 10 and a Ford a reliability rating of 4 how
> > > would you rate Liberty? ( Remember no offroading). Does the parts
> > > start malfunctioning after a couple of years? (I hear Nissan Xterra
> > > has this problem )
> > >
> > >
> > > I am a novice in autos. What is the deal with independent front
> > > suspension and solid rear axle? How does it affect comfort and
> > > reliability?
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your help,
> > >
> > > Paul Thomas
> >
> > I would stay away from any Chrysler products. Liberty is ok, but I have
a
> > few associates that have more than average share of problems with them.
> > Consider a Toyota 4runner. Little more roomy, very comfortable, and very
> > reliable.
>
> And very expensive. Hopefully the revised 4Runner is safer than the old
one
> which had one of the highest injury loss rating of any SUV sold in the US.
>
> I don't thik a person considering a Liberty is really in the market for a
> 4Runner.
>
> Ed
>

Thats because they sold the most...duh

Ted

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3FBE358A.12002511@mindspring.com...
>
>
> "Dan J.S." wrote:
>
> > "Paul Thomas" <Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com> wrote in message
> > news:8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.co m...
> > > I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
> > > discussion about this SUV in the newsgroups. I understand overall it
> > > is a pretty good vehicle. There are a couple of things about liberty
> > > that I would like to know. Safety and Reliability.
> > >
> > > Safety : How safe is it? I am new to SUVs and I hear that SUVs are
> > > vulnerable to tip over. How is jeep's record on this? How about other
> > > safety features?
> > >
> > >
> > > Reliability : How reliable is Liberty? I am going to use it only to
> > > commute to and from work and may be some camping. Strictly no rock
> > > climbing or extreme off roading of any sort. If you give Honda a
> > > reliability rating of 10 and a Ford a reliability rating of 4 how
> > > would you rate Liberty? ( Remember no offroading). Does the parts
> > > start malfunctioning after a couple of years? (I hear Nissan Xterra
> > > has this problem )
> > >
> > >
> > > I am a novice in autos. What is the deal with independent front
> > > suspension and solid rear axle? How does it affect comfort and
> > > reliability?
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your help,
> > >
> > > Paul Thomas
> >
> > I would stay away from any Chrysler products. Liberty is ok, but I have
a
> > few associates that have more than average share of problems with them.
> > Consider a Toyota 4runner. Little more roomy, very comfortable, and very
> > reliable.
>
> And very expensive. Hopefully the revised 4Runner is safer than the old
one
> which had one of the highest injury loss rating of any SUV sold in the US.
>
> I don't thik a person considering a Liberty is really in the market for a
> 4Runner.
>
> Ed
>

Thats because they sold the most...duh

Ted

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3FBE358A.12002511@mindspring.com...
>
>
> "Dan J.S." wrote:
>
> > "Paul Thomas" <Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com> wrote in message
> > news:8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.co m...
> > > I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
> > > discussion about this SUV in the newsgroups. I understand overall it
> > > is a pretty good vehicle. There are a couple of things about liberty
> > > that I would like to know. Safety and Reliability.
> > >
> > > Safety : How safe is it? I am new to SUVs and I hear that SUVs are
> > > vulnerable to tip over. How is jeep's record on this? How about other
> > > safety features?
> > >
> > >
> > > Reliability : How reliable is Liberty? I am going to use it only to
> > > commute to and from work and may be some camping. Strictly no rock
> > > climbing or extreme off roading of any sort. If you give Honda a
> > > reliability rating of 10 and a Ford a reliability rating of 4 how
> > > would you rate Liberty? ( Remember no offroading). Does the parts
> > > start malfunctioning after a couple of years? (I hear Nissan Xterra
> > > has this problem )
> > >
> > >
> > > I am a novice in autos. What is the deal with independent front
> > > suspension and solid rear axle? How does it affect comfort and
> > > reliability?
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your help,
> > >
> > > Paul Thomas
> >
> > I would stay away from any Chrysler products. Liberty is ok, but I have
a
> > few associates that have more than average share of problems with them.
> > Consider a Toyota 4runner. Little more roomy, very comfortable, and very
> > reliable.
>
> And very expensive. Hopefully the revised 4Runner is safer than the old
one
> which had one of the highest injury loss rating of any SUV sold in the US.
>
> I don't thik a person considering a Liberty is really in the market for a
> 4Runner.
>
> Ed
>

Thats because they sold the most...duh

C. E. White

Ted wrote:

> > And very expensive. Hopefully the revised 4Runner is safer than the old
> one
> > which had one of the highest injury loss rating of any SUV sold in the US.
> >
> > I don't thik a person considering a Liberty is really in the market for a
> > 4Runner.
> >
> > Ed
> >
>
> Thats because they sold the most...duh

It doesn't work that way. If it did, the Explorer would have the worst rating.
It doesn't. The injury loss rating is based on the dollar loss per million
registered vehicles attributable to injury and then is normalized so that the
average vehicle has an injury loss rating of 100. The 200-2002 4WD 4Runner has
an injury loss rating of 91 (which is better than the average for all vehicles),
but a 4 Door 4WD Explorer's rating is only 71 (lower is better). The average for
all mid-sized 4WD SUVs is 76.

Even worse is the roll over performance of the 4Runner. A 4DR, 4WD Explorer has
a driver death rating due to rollovers of 26. The 4Runner has a rating of 86.
(the rate is deaths in single-vehicle crashes involving rollover per million
registered vehicle years). I can't see how the press trashed Explorers for
rollovers and ignored the far more dangerous 4Runner. I hope the new 4Runner is
better, but from what I can read, it is little more that a new body sitting on
the same tired old chassis. And in fact it may be worse since they increased the
weight and added a heavier , more powerful engine as an option. It seems to me
that the Japanese SUVs are getting a free ride when it comes to Safety. In every
category of SUV they rank near the bottom of injury rates.

Oh what a feeling.

Ed

C. E. White

Ted wrote:

> > And very expensive. Hopefully the revised 4Runner is safer than the old
> one
> > which had one of the highest injury loss rating of any SUV sold in the US.
> >
> > I don't thik a person considering a Liberty is really in the market for a
> > 4Runner.
> >
> > Ed
> >
>
> Thats because they sold the most...duh

It doesn't work that way. If it did, the Explorer would have the worst rating.
It doesn't. The injury loss rating is based on the dollar loss per million
registered vehicles attributable to injury and then is normalized so that the
average vehicle has an injury loss rating of 100. The 200-2002 4WD 4Runner has
an injury loss rating of 91 (which is better than the average for all vehicles),
but a 4 Door 4WD Explorer's rating is only 71 (lower is better). The average for
all mid-sized 4WD SUVs is 76.

Even worse is the roll over performance of the 4Runner. A 4DR, 4WD Explorer has
a driver death rating due to rollovers of 26. The 4Runner has a rating of 86.
(the rate is deaths in single-vehicle crashes involving rollover per million
registered vehicle years). I can't see how the press trashed Explorers for
rollovers and ignored the far more dangerous 4Runner. I hope the new 4Runner is
better, but from what I can read, it is little more that a new body sitting on
the same tired old chassis. And in fact it may be worse since they increased the
weight and added a heavier , more powerful engine as an option. It seems to me
that the Japanese SUVs are getting a free ride when it comes to Safety. In every
category of SUV they rank near the bottom of injury rates.

Oh what a feeling.

Ed

C. E. White

Ted wrote:

> > And very expensive. Hopefully the revised 4Runner is safer than the old
> one
> > which had one of the highest injury loss rating of any SUV sold in the US.
> >
> > I don't thik a person considering a Liberty is really in the market for a
> > 4Runner.
> >
> > Ed
> >
>
> Thats because they sold the most...duh

It doesn't work that way. If it did, the Explorer would have the worst rating.
It doesn't. The injury loss rating is based on the dollar loss per million
registered vehicles attributable to injury and then is normalized so that the
average vehicle has an injury loss rating of 100. The 200-2002 4WD 4Runner has
an injury loss rating of 91 (which is better than the average for all vehicles),
but a 4 Door 4WD Explorer's rating is only 71 (lower is better). The average for
all mid-sized 4WD SUVs is 76.

Even worse is the roll over performance of the 4Runner. A 4DR, 4WD Explorer has
a driver death rating due to rollovers of 26. The 4Runner has a rating of 86.
(the rate is deaths in single-vehicle crashes involving rollover per million
registered vehicle years). I can't see how the press trashed Explorers for
rollovers and ignored the far more dangerous 4Runner. I hope the new 4Runner is
better, but from what I can read, it is little more that a new body sitting on
the same tired old chassis. And in fact it may be worse since they increased the
weight and added a heavier , more powerful engine as an option. It seems to me
that the Japanese SUVs are getting a free ride when it comes to Safety. In every
category of SUV they rank near the bottom of injury rates.

Oh what a feeling.

Ed

John Welch

Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com (Paul Thomas) wrote in message news:<8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.c om>...
> I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
OK, I own a 02 Liberty limited, a 99 Wrangler sport and a '49 ******
pickup.
Also, I help my Mother run 50 head of cattle on a couple of hundred
acres in East Texas. This is my experience:
A locker would be nice. I hate to be on flat, slippery pasture and
cannot move because I am spinning out. We have to ford a creek to get
to the west pasture. The Liberty handles it better than the Wrangler.
I bought the ****** in Dillon, Montana back in 1980 and wife and I
beat the dickins out the the ecology of Beaverhead county in her all
summer long. I learned a few things along the way. Liberty and
Wrangler are pretty much evenly matched off road - stock, but I prefer
the ifs and the selectrac over the command trac on the Wrangler. We
get tropical downpours, 4 inch and hour, frog strangeling rainstorms.
I would prefer the Liberty, selectrac, and ABS to ending up like this:
http://lnc.grwelch.com/jeep.htm
Liberty will pull 5000 lbs. You can probablly lift a Liberty, I am
not sure, don't plan to.

If you do not plan to pull 5000 lbs and do not plan to lift the thing
then look at the Rangerover Freelander. I think that the Freelander
would be fine for chasing cows through the pasture, doodling bales of
hay with the tumble bug and dragging the occasional dead cow off down
into the woods, and really the only reason we went with the Liberty
was so that I could haul off the wreck of the Wrangler. (Wrangler is
back on the road now, by the way)

Our family has 25000+ on the Liberty with no problems. When the
Wrangler and the Liberty are as old as the ****** I think that the
Liberty will be a lot more trouble than the Wrangler - more electronic
stuff and I really did not want a sun roof; I know there is no way
that thing will last 60 years. Most people do not keep their vehicles
forever like us Jeep people, but then most people do not drive Jeeps.

If you like the Liberty hold out for one with the Selectrac and the
ABS. If it does not have the locking rear differential you will have
to have one put in later. I had U-Haul put in the trailer hitch but
letting the dealer do it would be ok.

> Thank you all for your help,
>
> Paul Thomas
de nada,

John Welch

Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com (Paul Thomas) wrote in message news:<8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.c om>...
> I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
OK, I own a 02 Liberty limited, a 99 Wrangler sport and a '49 ******
pickup.
Also, I help my Mother run 50 head of cattle on a couple of hundred
acres in East Texas. This is my experience:
A locker would be nice. I hate to be on flat, slippery pasture and
cannot move because I am spinning out. We have to ford a creek to get
to the west pasture. The Liberty handles it better than the Wrangler.
I bought the ****** in Dillon, Montana back in 1980 and wife and I
beat the dickins out the the ecology of Beaverhead county in her all
summer long. I learned a few things along the way. Liberty and
Wrangler are pretty much evenly matched off road - stock, but I prefer
the ifs and the selectrac over the command trac on the Wrangler. We
get tropical downpours, 4 inch and hour, frog strangeling rainstorms.
I would prefer the Liberty, selectrac, and ABS to ending up like this:
http://lnc.grwelch.com/jeep.htm
Liberty will pull 5000 lbs. You can probablly lift a Liberty, I am
not sure, don't plan to.

If you do not plan to pull 5000 lbs and do not plan to lift the thing
then look at the Rangerover Freelander. I think that the Freelander
would be fine for chasing cows through the pasture, doodling bales of
hay with the tumble bug and dragging the occasional dead cow off down
into the woods, and really the only reason we went with the Liberty
was so that I could haul off the wreck of the Wrangler. (Wrangler is
back on the road now, by the way)

Our family has 25000+ on the Liberty with no problems. When the
Wrangler and the Liberty are as old as the ****** I think that the
Liberty will be a lot more trouble than the Wrangler - more electronic
stuff and I really did not want a sun roof; I know there is no way
that thing will last 60 years. Most people do not keep their vehicles
forever like us Jeep people, but then most people do not drive Jeeps.

If you like the Liberty hold out for one with the Selectrac and the
ABS. If it does not have the locking rear differential you will have
to have one put in later. I had U-Haul put in the trailer hitch but
letting the dealer do it would be ok.

> Thank you all for your help,
>
> Paul Thomas
de nada,

John Welch

Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com (Paul Thomas) wrote in message news:<8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.c om>...
> I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
OK, I own a 02 Liberty limited, a 99 Wrangler sport and a '49 ******
pickup.
Also, I help my Mother run 50 head of cattle on a couple of hundred
acres in East Texas. This is my experience:
A locker would be nice. I hate to be on flat, slippery pasture and
cannot move because I am spinning out. We have to ford a creek to get
to the west pasture. The Liberty handles it better than the Wrangler.
I bought the ****** in Dillon, Montana back in 1980 and wife and I
beat the dickins out the the ecology of Beaverhead county in her all
summer long. I learned a few things along the way. Liberty and
Wrangler are pretty much evenly matched off road - stock, but I prefer
the ifs and the selectrac over the command trac on the Wrangler. We
get tropical downpours, 4 inch and hour, frog strangeling rainstorms.
I would prefer the Liberty, selectrac, and ABS to ending up like this:
http://lnc.grwelch.com/jeep.htm
Liberty will pull 5000 lbs. You can probablly lift a Liberty, I am
not sure, don't plan to.

If you do not plan to pull 5000 lbs and do not plan to lift the thing
then look at the Rangerover Freelander. I think that the Freelander
would be fine for chasing cows through the pasture, doodling bales of
hay with the tumble bug and dragging the occasional dead cow off down
into the woods, and really the only reason we went with the Liberty
was so that I could haul off the wreck of the Wrangler. (Wrangler is
back on the road now, by the way)

Our family has 25000+ on the Liberty with no problems. When the
Wrangler and the Liberty are as old as the ****** I think that the
Liberty will be a lot more trouble than the Wrangler - more electronic
stuff and I really did not want a sun roof; I know there is no way
that thing will last 60 years. Most people do not keep their vehicles
forever like us Jeep people, but then most people do not drive Jeeps.

If you like the Liberty hold out for one with the Selectrac and the
ABS. If it does not have the locking rear differential you will have
to have one put in later. I had U-Haul put in the trailer hitch but
letting the dealer do it would be ok.

> Thank you all for your help,
>
> Paul Thomas
de nada,

Matt Macchiarolo

In article <13efcc39.0311221306.6f6514dd@posting.google.com >,
jcwelch@hal-pc.org (John Welch) writes:

> Liberty and
>Wrangler are pretty much evenly matched off road - stock,

Oh jeez, you've gone and done it now.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html