Jeep Cherokee ABS problem
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Cherokee ABS problem
> My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
> and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
> You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
> situation.
>
> Earle
>
Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
If I can't come to an agreement with the dealership I think I'll pay to
have ABS installed myself, then try to get a refund of as great a
portion of the cost of it as I can.
> and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
> You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
> situation.
>
> Earle
>
Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
If I can't come to an agreement with the dealership I think I'll pay to
have ABS installed myself, then try to get a refund of as great a
portion of the cost of it as I can.
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Cherokee ABS problem
"Peter" <petgray@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138357435.594359.271970@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
---snippy---
>
> If I can't come to an agreement with the dealership I think I'll pay to
> have ABS installed myself, then try to get a refund of as great a
> portion of the cost of it as I can.
>
There may be some sticker shock when you try to have ABS installed. Afaik,
it was never sold as an add-on kit, because of lack of real demand. It is
not like air conditioning, that you can get installed fairly cheap on almost
any vehicle. The installer would have to buy all the individual parts, as
spares, and that is not going to be cheap.
Earle
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Cherokee ABS problem
"Peter" <petgray@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138357435.594359.271970@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
---snippy---
>
> If I can't come to an agreement with the dealership I think I'll pay to
> have ABS installed myself, then try to get a refund of as great a
> portion of the cost of it as I can.
>
There may be some sticker shock when you try to have ABS installed. Afaik,
it was never sold as an add-on kit, because of lack of real demand. It is
not like air conditioning, that you can get installed fairly cheap on almost
any vehicle. The installer would have to buy all the individual parts, as
spares, and that is not going to be cheap.
Earle
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Cherokee ABS problem
"Peter" <petgray@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138357435.594359.271970@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
---snippy---
>
> If I can't come to an agreement with the dealership I think I'll pay to
> have ABS installed myself, then try to get a refund of as great a
> portion of the cost of it as I can.
>
There may be some sticker shock when you try to have ABS installed. Afaik,
it was never sold as an add-on kit, because of lack of real demand. It is
not like air conditioning, that you can get installed fairly cheap on almost
any vehicle. The installer would have to buy all the individual parts, as
spares, and that is not going to be cheap.
Earle
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Cherokee ABS problem
If you insist on ABS, you are likely going to need a different Jeep.
Retrofitting without causing untold damage would be really expensive if
not outright impossible.
Could you imaging the monkey that said your ABS was working perfect
ripping out all your axles and brakes, re-plumbing the brakes while
knowing enough to hook up a new computer system into it and to each
wheel? Yikes.....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Peter wrote:
>
> > My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
> > and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
> > You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
> > situation.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
>
> If I can't come to an agreement with the dealership I think I'll pay to
> have ABS installed myself, then try to get a refund of as great a
> portion of the cost of it as I can.
Retrofitting without causing untold damage would be really expensive if
not outright impossible.
Could you imaging the monkey that said your ABS was working perfect
ripping out all your axles and brakes, re-plumbing the brakes while
knowing enough to hook up a new computer system into it and to each
wheel? Yikes.....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Peter wrote:
>
> > My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
> > and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
> > You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
> > situation.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
>
> If I can't come to an agreement with the dealership I think I'll pay to
> have ABS installed myself, then try to get a refund of as great a
> portion of the cost of it as I can.
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Cherokee ABS problem
If you insist on ABS, you are likely going to need a different Jeep.
Retrofitting without causing untold damage would be really expensive if
not outright impossible.
Could you imaging the monkey that said your ABS was working perfect
ripping out all your axles and brakes, re-plumbing the brakes while
knowing enough to hook up a new computer system into it and to each
wheel? Yikes.....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Peter wrote:
>
> > My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
> > and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
> > You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
> > situation.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
>
> If I can't come to an agreement with the dealership I think I'll pay to
> have ABS installed myself, then try to get a refund of as great a
> portion of the cost of it as I can.
Retrofitting without causing untold damage would be really expensive if
not outright impossible.
Could you imaging the monkey that said your ABS was working perfect
ripping out all your axles and brakes, re-plumbing the brakes while
knowing enough to hook up a new computer system into it and to each
wheel? Yikes.....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Peter wrote:
>
> > My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
> > and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
> > You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
> > situation.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
>
> If I can't come to an agreement with the dealership I think I'll pay to
> have ABS installed myself, then try to get a refund of as great a
> portion of the cost of it as I can.
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Cherokee ABS problem
If you insist on ABS, you are likely going to need a different Jeep.
Retrofitting without causing untold damage would be really expensive if
not outright impossible.
Could you imaging the monkey that said your ABS was working perfect
ripping out all your axles and brakes, re-plumbing the brakes while
knowing enough to hook up a new computer system into it and to each
wheel? Yikes.....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Peter wrote:
>
> > My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
> > and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
> > You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
> > situation.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
>
> If I can't come to an agreement with the dealership I think I'll pay to
> have ABS installed myself, then try to get a refund of as great a
> portion of the cost of it as I can.
Retrofitting without causing untold damage would be really expensive if
not outright impossible.
Could you imaging the monkey that said your ABS was working perfect
ripping out all your axles and brakes, re-plumbing the brakes while
knowing enough to hook up a new computer system into it and to each
wheel? Yikes.....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Peter wrote:
>
> > My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
> > and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
> > You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
> > situation.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
>
> If I can't come to an agreement with the dealership I think I'll pay to
> have ABS installed myself, then try to get a refund of as great a
> portion of the cost of it as I can.
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Cherokee ABS problem
Peter wrote:
>>My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
>>and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
>>You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
>>situation.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
Not to flog a dead horse, but the utility of ABS depends entirely on
what the road surface is. For a hard surface in a straight line it
should help. On loose surfaces you can slide and slide and slide.
Worse, when it works correctly it can startle an unprepared driver who
will back off the throbbing brake pedal, extending the stopping distance
even farther.
Here's a mediocre cite:
<URL:http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/rulings/TirePresFinal/FEA/TPMS_App_B.html>
Quoting:
> Second, as shown on pages V-82 to V-85, the agency has not found a statistically significant overall fatality benefit for ABS. As a matter of fact, in the two most recent anti-lock brake evaluations by Framer and Hertz, the only statistically significant findings were that fatalities increased with ABS in certain situations
A year or so back there was a news story here about a couple that slid
off a cliff on a mountain trail. It was speculated here that their ABS
system allowed them to skid off what should have been a navigable turn.
IIRC a sheriff reported that the Jeep "just fell from the sky".
>>My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
>>and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
>>You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
>>situation.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
Not to flog a dead horse, but the utility of ABS depends entirely on
what the road surface is. For a hard surface in a straight line it
should help. On loose surfaces you can slide and slide and slide.
Worse, when it works correctly it can startle an unprepared driver who
will back off the throbbing brake pedal, extending the stopping distance
even farther.
Here's a mediocre cite:
<URL:http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/rulings/TirePresFinal/FEA/TPMS_App_B.html>
Quoting:
> Second, as shown on pages V-82 to V-85, the agency has not found a statistically significant overall fatality benefit for ABS. As a matter of fact, in the two most recent anti-lock brake evaluations by Framer and Hertz, the only statistically significant findings were that fatalities increased with ABS in certain situations
A year or so back there was a news story here about a couple that slid
off a cliff on a mountain trail. It was speculated here that their ABS
system allowed them to skid off what should have been a navigable turn.
IIRC a sheriff reported that the Jeep "just fell from the sky".
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Cherokee ABS problem
Peter wrote:
>>My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
>>and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
>>You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
>>situation.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
Not to flog a dead horse, but the utility of ABS depends entirely on
what the road surface is. For a hard surface in a straight line it
should help. On loose surfaces you can slide and slide and slide.
Worse, when it works correctly it can startle an unprepared driver who
will back off the throbbing brake pedal, extending the stopping distance
even farther.
Here's a mediocre cite:
<URL:http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/rulings/TirePresFinal/FEA/TPMS_App_B.html>
Quoting:
> Second, as shown on pages V-82 to V-85, the agency has not found a statistically significant overall fatality benefit for ABS. As a matter of fact, in the two most recent anti-lock brake evaluations by Framer and Hertz, the only statistically significant findings were that fatalities increased with ABS in certain situations
A year or so back there was a news story here about a couple that slid
off a cliff on a mountain trail. It was speculated here that their ABS
system allowed them to skid off what should have been a navigable turn.
IIRC a sheriff reported that the Jeep "just fell from the sky".
>>My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
>>and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
>>You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
>>situation.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
Not to flog a dead horse, but the utility of ABS depends entirely on
what the road surface is. For a hard surface in a straight line it
should help. On loose surfaces you can slide and slide and slide.
Worse, when it works correctly it can startle an unprepared driver who
will back off the throbbing brake pedal, extending the stopping distance
even farther.
Here's a mediocre cite:
<URL:http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/rulings/TirePresFinal/FEA/TPMS_App_B.html>
Quoting:
> Second, as shown on pages V-82 to V-85, the agency has not found a statistically significant overall fatality benefit for ABS. As a matter of fact, in the two most recent anti-lock brake evaluations by Framer and Hertz, the only statistically significant findings were that fatalities increased with ABS in certain situations
A year or so back there was a news story here about a couple that slid
off a cliff on a mountain trail. It was speculated here that their ABS
system allowed them to skid off what should have been a navigable turn.
IIRC a sheriff reported that the Jeep "just fell from the sky".
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Cherokee ABS problem
Peter wrote:
>>My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
>>and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
>>You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
>>situation.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
Not to flog a dead horse, but the utility of ABS depends entirely on
what the road surface is. For a hard surface in a straight line it
should help. On loose surfaces you can slide and slide and slide.
Worse, when it works correctly it can startle an unprepared driver who
will back off the throbbing brake pedal, extending the stopping distance
even farther.
Here's a mediocre cite:
<URL:http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/rulings/TirePresFinal/FEA/TPMS_App_B.html>
Quoting:
> Second, as shown on pages V-82 to V-85, the agency has not found a statistically significant overall fatality benefit for ABS. As a matter of fact, in the two most recent anti-lock brake evaluations by Framer and Hertz, the only statistically significant findings were that fatalities increased with ABS in certain situations
A year or so back there was a news story here about a couple that slid
off a cliff on a mountain trail. It was speculated here that their ABS
system allowed them to skid off what should have been a navigable turn.
IIRC a sheriff reported that the Jeep "just fell from the sky".
>>My personal opinion, is that you are blowing things way out of proportion,
>>and that ABS is not the great "safety feature" that you imagine it to be.
>>You were however offered it, and are entitled to some relief from this
>>situation.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>
> Yes, I agree that ABS has its limitations. However, I think part of
> its usefulness is taking the human error factor out of difficult
> situations. For example, I know what I'm supposed to do in the event
> of a skid: ease off then pump the brakes, steer in the direction of the
> skid etc. But despite knowing that, I remember what I actually did a
> few years ago when I got into a really bad skid: froze like a lemon,
> jammed my foot hard on the brake and locked the steering wheel, and
> stayed like that until the vehicle came to a stop. Instinctive
> reaction. That's where ABS would have helped.
Not to flog a dead horse, but the utility of ABS depends entirely on
what the road surface is. For a hard surface in a straight line it
should help. On loose surfaces you can slide and slide and slide.
Worse, when it works correctly it can startle an unprepared driver who
will back off the throbbing brake pedal, extending the stopping distance
even farther.
Here's a mediocre cite:
<URL:http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/rulings/TirePresFinal/FEA/TPMS_App_B.html>
Quoting:
> Second, as shown on pages V-82 to V-85, the agency has not found a statistically significant overall fatality benefit for ABS. As a matter of fact, in the two most recent anti-lock brake evaluations by Framer and Hertz, the only statistically significant findings were that fatalities increased with ABS in certain situations
A year or so back there was a news story here about a couple that slid
off a cliff on a mountain trail. It was speculated here that their ABS
system allowed them to skid off what should have been a navigable turn.
IIRC a sheriff reported that the Jeep "just fell from the sky".