Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
#641
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Finally, a note of sanity...
The problem is that little fast car drivers don't like big slow SUVs because
they get stuck behind them and cant see past them, so they seize on any
argument to get them banned... tell me it isn't so !
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
news:3F91BFCA.3010206@computer.org...
: Marc wrote:
: > "Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote:
: I don't buy this crap about vehicles being inherently bad just because
: of their design criterion. The problem is idiots that don't learn the
: characteristics of their vehicle and then drive it accordingly.
:
:
: Matt
:
The problem is that little fast car drivers don't like big slow SUVs because
they get stuck behind them and cant see past them, so they seize on any
argument to get them banned... tell me it isn't so !
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
news:3F91BFCA.3010206@computer.org...
: Marc wrote:
: > "Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote:
: I don't buy this crap about vehicles being inherently bad just because
: of their design criterion. The problem is idiots that don't learn the
: characteristics of their vehicle and then drive it accordingly.
:
:
: Matt
:
#642
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Finally, a note of sanity...
The problem is that little fast car drivers don't like big slow SUVs because
they get stuck behind them and cant see past them, so they seize on any
argument to get them banned... tell me it isn't so !
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
news:3F91BFCA.3010206@computer.org...
: Marc wrote:
: > "Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote:
: I don't buy this crap about vehicles being inherently bad just because
: of their design criterion. The problem is idiots that don't learn the
: characteristics of their vehicle and then drive it accordingly.
:
:
: Matt
:
The problem is that little fast car drivers don't like big slow SUVs because
they get stuck behind them and cant see past them, so they seize on any
argument to get them banned... tell me it isn't so !
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
news:3F91BFCA.3010206@computer.org...
: Marc wrote:
: > "Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote:
: I don't buy this crap about vehicles being inherently bad just because
: of their design criterion. The problem is idiots that don't learn the
: characteristics of their vehicle and then drive it accordingly.
:
:
: Matt
:
#643
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Finally, a note of sanity...
The problem is that little fast car drivers don't like big slow SUVs because
they get stuck behind them and cant see past them, so they seize on any
argument to get them banned... tell me it isn't so !
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
news:3F91BFCA.3010206@computer.org...
: Marc wrote:
: > "Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote:
: I don't buy this crap about vehicles being inherently bad just because
: of their design criterion. The problem is idiots that don't learn the
: characteristics of their vehicle and then drive it accordingly.
:
:
: Matt
:
The problem is that little fast car drivers don't like big slow SUVs because
they get stuck behind them and cant see past them, so they seize on any
argument to get them banned... tell me it isn't so !
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
news:3F91BFCA.3010206@computer.org...
: Marc wrote:
: > "Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote:
: I don't buy this crap about vehicles being inherently bad just because
: of their design criterion. The problem is idiots that don't learn the
: characteristics of their vehicle and then drive it accordingly.
:
:
: Matt
:
#644
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> That may be the case with hydrocarbons, but definitely not NOx. NOx is
> directly
> related to combustion temp, and most 60's cars had no EGR valve.
I'm not aware of any that did. A long duration performance cam would have a
somewhat EGR-like effect though, able to suck some of the unburnt gases back
through the cylinders. Besides EGR systems can fail, valves can get stuck.
> However, let's explore your argument a bit.
'Kay.
> Suppose that the 68 Charger emissions are identical to a modern passenger
> car.
> Thus, let's say for for every gallon of gas that is put into either car we
> are gonna
> get a half pound of air pollution.
>
> Now, if both cars are driven the same number of miles each year, because
> CAFE
> forces the modern vehicle to have 28 Mpg, and the Charger gets 14 Mpg, over
> 1 years time the Charger is going to be using double the amount of gas, and
> putting
> double the amount of pollutants into the air.
Only the CO2, other pollutants are regulated by the EPA in grams per mile,
regardless of fuel use or engine size.
Besides I was only comparing it to a modern car vs. a gross polluter, not just
a modern car, nor was I asserting that it would meet modern emissions
standards.
--Aardwolf.
#645
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> That may be the case with hydrocarbons, but definitely not NOx. NOx is
> directly
> related to combustion temp, and most 60's cars had no EGR valve.
I'm not aware of any that did. A long duration performance cam would have a
somewhat EGR-like effect though, able to suck some of the unburnt gases back
through the cylinders. Besides EGR systems can fail, valves can get stuck.
> However, let's explore your argument a bit.
'Kay.
> Suppose that the 68 Charger emissions are identical to a modern passenger
> car.
> Thus, let's say for for every gallon of gas that is put into either car we
> are gonna
> get a half pound of air pollution.
>
> Now, if both cars are driven the same number of miles each year, because
> CAFE
> forces the modern vehicle to have 28 Mpg, and the Charger gets 14 Mpg, over
> 1 years time the Charger is going to be using double the amount of gas, and
> putting
> double the amount of pollutants into the air.
Only the CO2, other pollutants are regulated by the EPA in grams per mile,
regardless of fuel use or engine size.
Besides I was only comparing it to a modern car vs. a gross polluter, not just
a modern car, nor was I asserting that it would meet modern emissions
standards.
--Aardwolf.
#646
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> That may be the case with hydrocarbons, but definitely not NOx. NOx is
> directly
> related to combustion temp, and most 60's cars had no EGR valve.
I'm not aware of any that did. A long duration performance cam would have a
somewhat EGR-like effect though, able to suck some of the unburnt gases back
through the cylinders. Besides EGR systems can fail, valves can get stuck.
> However, let's explore your argument a bit.
'Kay.
> Suppose that the 68 Charger emissions are identical to a modern passenger
> car.
> Thus, let's say for for every gallon of gas that is put into either car we
> are gonna
> get a half pound of air pollution.
>
> Now, if both cars are driven the same number of miles each year, because
> CAFE
> forces the modern vehicle to have 28 Mpg, and the Charger gets 14 Mpg, over
> 1 years time the Charger is going to be using double the amount of gas, and
> putting
> double the amount of pollutants into the air.
Only the CO2, other pollutants are regulated by the EPA in grams per mile,
regardless of fuel use or engine size.
Besides I was only comparing it to a modern car vs. a gross polluter, not just
a modern car, nor was I asserting that it would meet modern emissions
standards.
--Aardwolf.
#647
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Don't you be picking her either, that's not nice :-)
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote in message
news:bmspfh$p2ldq$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de...
: Hey, Lisa's a Horton. Don't you guys be picking on my cousin!
:
: (Howdy cousin.)
:
: Earle
:
: "Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
: news:L2jkb.496704$2x.208020@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att. net...
: > Approximately 10/18/03 13:12, Dave Milne uttered for posterity:
: >
: > > Its funny Bill, how everyone who drives a small car seems to think
their
: a
: > > f*king racing driver..
: > >
: > Make the highways safe to drive again, run over a shitbox today.
: >
: > --
: > My governor can kick your governor's ***
: >
:
:
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote in message
news:bmspfh$p2ldq$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de...
: Hey, Lisa's a Horton. Don't you guys be picking on my cousin!
:
: (Howdy cousin.)
:
: Earle
:
: "Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
: news:L2jkb.496704$2x.208020@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att. net...
: > Approximately 10/18/03 13:12, Dave Milne uttered for posterity:
: >
: > > Its funny Bill, how everyone who drives a small car seems to think
their
: a
: > > f*king racing driver..
: > >
: > Make the highways safe to drive again, run over a shitbox today.
: >
: > --
: > My governor can kick your governor's ***
: >
:
:
#648
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Don't you be picking her either, that's not nice :-)
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote in message
news:bmspfh$p2ldq$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de...
: Hey, Lisa's a Horton. Don't you guys be picking on my cousin!
:
: (Howdy cousin.)
:
: Earle
:
: "Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
: news:L2jkb.496704$2x.208020@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att. net...
: > Approximately 10/18/03 13:12, Dave Milne uttered for posterity:
: >
: > > Its funny Bill, how everyone who drives a small car seems to think
their
: a
: > > f*king racing driver..
: > >
: > Make the highways safe to drive again, run over a shitbox today.
: >
: > --
: > My governor can kick your governor's ***
: >
:
:
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote in message
news:bmspfh$p2ldq$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de...
: Hey, Lisa's a Horton. Don't you guys be picking on my cousin!
:
: (Howdy cousin.)
:
: Earle
:
: "Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
: news:L2jkb.496704$2x.208020@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att. net...
: > Approximately 10/18/03 13:12, Dave Milne uttered for posterity:
: >
: > > Its funny Bill, how everyone who drives a small car seems to think
their
: a
: > > f*king racing driver..
: > >
: > Make the highways safe to drive again, run over a shitbox today.
: >
: > --
: > My governor can kick your governor's ***
: >
:
:
#649
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Don't you be picking her either, that's not nice :-)
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote in message
news:bmspfh$p2ldq$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de...
: Hey, Lisa's a Horton. Don't you guys be picking on my cousin!
:
: (Howdy cousin.)
:
: Earle
:
: "Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
: news:L2jkb.496704$2x.208020@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att. net...
: > Approximately 10/18/03 13:12, Dave Milne uttered for posterity:
: >
: > > Its funny Bill, how everyone who drives a small car seems to think
their
: a
: > > f*king racing driver..
: > >
: > Make the highways safe to drive again, run over a shitbox today.
: >
: > --
: > My governor can kick your governor's ***
: >
:
:
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote in message
news:bmspfh$p2ldq$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de...
: Hey, Lisa's a Horton. Don't you guys be picking on my cousin!
:
: (Howdy cousin.)
:
: Earle
:
: "Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
: news:L2jkb.496704$2x.208020@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att. net...
: > Approximately 10/18/03 13:12, Dave Milne uttered for posterity:
: >
: > > Its funny Bill, how everyone who drives a small car seems to think
their
: a
: > > f*king racing driver..
: > >
: > Make the highways safe to drive again, run over a shitbox today.
: >
: > --
: > My governor can kick your governor's ***
: >
:
:
#650
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
"Bill Funk" <bfunk33@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:g4g3pvcq3aad38k3ljgf39n5a0p5hk1j4v@4ax.com...
>
> That's becasue they are designed to do different things.
> Those who want them all to do the same thing, and thus be designed the
> same, simply forget that not everyone wants to (or, indeed, CAN do)
> the same thing others do.
> The idea that all vehicles should perform the same way, while bringing
> them all down to the level that pleases an idealistic few, simply
> ignores reality.
No problem with that argument if everyone paid all costs associated
with driving a car.
However, keep in mind that everyone breathes the exhaust of everyone
else's vehicle, and we all held hostage to OPEC, and I have to move
my fat *** out of your way on the freeway to give you some room, and
vis-versa.
In short, the concept of limited resources applies to vehicles.
Therefore, why is it fair that just because Billy Bob has a need of
hauling a big 50 foot crackerbox trailer down the road that he gets
to suck up tons of gas (thus driving up the price, see law of supply
and demand) spew out tons of pollution, and occupy tons of
space, do lots of road damage due to his vehicle weight, and so on,
whereas someone else who has an econobox
that they drive a total of 5 miles a week, doesen't get 3 car lengths
of room around his car when he gets on the freeway (the same amount of
space Billy Bob gets) is required to fix the emissions stuff on his
car that breaks even when broken he's still polluting less than
Billy Bob, pays the same federal taxes even though he's not
doing the same damage to the freeway Billy Bob is,
and doesen't get a price break on fuel because
he's not sucking up all the fuel supply?
If you can devise a system that hit the wallets of all drivers in
proportion to the amount of money they cost the rest of us,
then by all means, let everyone drive whatever the hell they want.
But until that time, the people that drive gas-guzzling, heavy
trucks and SUV's and do it all day long, they are driving up
road repair, fuel, insurance, and a host of other associated
costs for the drivers that aren't doing this. So we all have to
pay for their "needs"
> it would be good to remember why light trucks and SUVs are so popular:
> it's a direct result of the CAFE rules that were supposed to bring all
> vehicles into line with the ideals of a select few.
Rubbish. Light trucks and SUV's are still a minority of vehicle traffic
on the road, they are not "so popular" The reason they are popular
at all is because they have additional utility than just moving people
around.
Despite all that was done with the station wagon body, it's still
easier to haul a stack of plywood and 2x4's in the bed of a
truck. People that think that everyone who has a light truck or
an SUV are going to give them up just because CAFE is repealed
on sedans and a few big fast sedans are produced, are foolish.
Ted