The Mog's a great off roader, I've ridden in them during my years as a
cadet, the army can drive them all over the landscape where a Landrover or
other SUV cannot go.

yet even they can become civilised. I've seen them on lowered suspensions
with a campervan body on the back. even with the lowering they can outdo
SUVs.

rhys

"Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3f9653a7$0$586$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com.. .
> You need another product from the DC Group:
>
> http://www.mercedes-benz.com/omb/d/e...u3000u4000.htm
>
> DAS
> --
> ---
> NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
> ---
> "rnf2" <rnf2@waikato.ac.nz> wrote in message
> news:3f95b10c@news.iconz.co.nz...
> > Supermarket Warriors...
> > i use mine to tow tons of metal around to ------ on the farm tracks,
loads
> > of timber that would bust an ecnonboxes sustpension, even if it fitted
int
> > he back, and heavy metal SCUBA cylinders and lead weights. an entire
clubs
> > collection, totalling over 600 Kg of tanks and weights made a
neglegible
> > difference in fuel consumption.
> >
> > rhys
> ....................................
>
>
>

 

The Mog's a great off roader, I've ridden in them during my years as a
cadet, the army can drive them all over the landscape where a Landrover or
other SUV cannot go.

yet even they can become civilised. I've seen them on lowered suspensions
with a campervan body on the back. even with the lowering they can outdo
SUVs.

rhys

"Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3f9653a7$0$586$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com.. .
> You need another product from the DC Group:
>
> http://www.mercedes-benz.com/omb/d/e...u3000u4000.htm
>
> DAS
> --
> ---
> NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
> ---
> "rnf2" <rnf2@waikato.ac.nz> wrote in message
> news:3f95b10c@news.iconz.co.nz...
> > Supermarket Warriors...
> > i use mine to tow tons of metal around to ------ on the farm tracks,
loads
> > of timber that would bust an ecnonboxes sustpension, even if it fitted
int
> > he back, and heavy metal SCUBA cylinders and lead weights. an entire
clubs
> > collection, totalling over 600 Kg of tanks and weights made a
neglegible
> > difference in fuel consumption.
> >
> > rhys
> ....................................
>
>
>

 

The Commadore is a very nice car to drive, My mother, (A farmer) drives a V6
3.8L '89 commadore sedan, It will go up steep hills without shifting down,
and cruises in overdrive at 100Kmh (60Mph) at 2500 rpm.
I've never actually put it through it's paces properly, most cars I drive I
take to a deserted flat stretch of road 4 or so Km long and floor them. my
2L nissan could do 130Kmh before complaining, and could head up the highway
comfortably in cruise control at 120. My Isuzu Bighorn 2.8 Diesel could
manage 145Kmh and runs up the motorway at 140.
I floored my mums commodore and passed 180 and still accellerating when I
had to brake for a corner. so theres power to spare.
The police use 3.8 holdens as chase cars and highway patrol, with an
aftermarket ECU chip giving max speeds in the 250Kmh range.

Think of what a 5.7L V6 could do. amd the monaro body is lighter than the
'89 Commodores. more power, less weight, more tire grip (265/30R18 on the
monaro, 195/70R15 on the Commadore.) adds up to a pretty damn potent
vehicle.

rhys

"Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3f964eef$0$592$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com.. .
> Well, chaps, that's a timely note (about the Monaro). In last week's
Sunday
> Times, the UK's biggest selling quality Sunday paper, there was an item
> about the Monaro and how it's going to become the Pontiac GTO.
>
> Note that it was described as being of "old design, a relative of the
Omega
> saloon which disappeared from the price lists earlier this year...coming
to
> Britain [as] Vauxhall as a by-product of the decision to launch it in the
> US...
>
> "...GM sought a modern equivalent of its GTO and found this potent coupe
> lurking at its Australian outpost. The Vauxhall Monaro will have the same
> specs as the new GTO...5.7 litre engine V8... and six-speed manual gearbox
> from the Chevrolet Corvette it is loud and fast (0 - 60 mph in 5.5 sec),
yet
> more civilised than its American predecessor, the Pontiac Firebird. At
> present there is nothing quite like the Monaro available in Britain."
>
> Price is GBP 32K for the 360 bhp LSI. The 320 bhp CV8 will cost about GBP
> 28 000.
>
> "Coupes of equivalent size and performance are much more expensive --
> ...Merc CL and forthcoming BMW 6...Vauxhall led the UK car market with the
> Corsa [note: a small car]. Whether it has raised its reputation enough to
> sell a GPB 30K high-performance model remains to be seen."
>
> Just in case you don't all know, Vauxhall is GM's brand. I wonder if it
> will be launched on the Continent (as an Opel).
>
> I guess the Monaro will sit in a separate market niche as Saab is supposed
> to be up-market from Vauxhall/Opel. Saab cars are not that big though.
The
> most powerful engine is a 2.3 l turbo achieving 220 or 250 hp.
>
>
> An additional point is in connection with criticisms elsewhere of designs
> being 'pinched'. The big producers are global and would be foolish not to
> pick designs from all over the place. That said, I am not sure that the
US
> companies 'pinch' enough from their overseas affiliates.
>
>
> DAS
> ---
> NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
> ---
> "rnf2" <rnf2@waikato.ac.nz> wrote in message
> news:3f95ecc7@news.iconz.co.nz...
> > The 5.7L V8 is the latest descendant of the mighty Chevy smallblock
350ci.
> >
> > they can be modified to over 1000 Hp and still be drivable streetlegal.
> >
> > the 3.8 started as a USA GM engine, but a factory was built in Aussie
and
> > R&D changed it, it doesn't interchange well with stock USA GM parts that
> > well now, but theres plenty of support in Aussie for them. the 5L and
5.7L
> > are stock Chevys from Chevs plants in the states. plenty of parts if
they
> > bring Holdens stateside.
> >
> > rhys
> >
> > "Aardwolf" <se1aard1@itis.com> wrote in message
> > news:3F95EA40.41ED53E0@itis.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > rnf2 wrote:
> > >
> > > > Built in Australia, sold in Australia and New Zealand and a few
other
> > RHD
> > > > countries.
> > > > Smallest engine in one is 3.8L V6, and goes up to a 5.7L V8. and
even
> > the
> > > > 3.8 can tow 2000Kg, or 4000+ pounds, V8 is up to 3500Kg or so, 7000+
> > pounds.
> > > > www.holden.com.au and www.ford.com.au
> > > > They're big cargo haulers, and very popular with farmers, very
> reliable
> > and
> > > > can take some pretty harsh terrain and climate without flinching.
> > > > very popular with farmers, and can carry 8 people in the station
> wagons.
> > > > with a big boot (trunk) still.
> > > >
> > > > Commador is the entry level car, then the higher specced Berlina and
> the
> > > > luxary Calais.
> > > > then comes the SS, and HSV performance cars.
> > > >
> > > > rhys
> > >
> > > Also sold in mid east countries as Chevrolets with left hand drive--in
> any
> > case
> > > they use totally U.S. drivetrains (engines/transmissions) and can
easily
> > pass
> > > U.S. safety requirements as well. The new Pontiac GTO is a Holden
> Monaro
> > coupe
> > > with different badges. Thanks in large part to union interference
> GM-U.S.
> > keeps
> > > refusing to import any more mainline sedan models, but they'd
doubtless
> > eat all
> > > of the domestic competition as it is now. They'd be 350-horsepower
> family
> > > sedans for as little as $20K U.S.
> > >
> > > The Commodore line and variants come with Corvette engines of up to
350
> > > horsepower (or just over 400 for the HSV-modified versions) and can
> still
> > touch
> > > 30mpg (U.S.) on the highway with a 6-speed overdrive--or they can be
had
> > with
> > > smaller V6 powerplants. The long-wheelbase Statesman (mid east
> "Chevrolet
> > > Caprice") would be a superb replacement for the last U.S. models of
that
> > name,
> > > almost exactly the same size and layout, but incrementally improved
> > (newer, even
> > > more powerful engines, independent rear suspension, etc.).
> > >
> > > I believe the top-line HSV GTS is already sold in the U.K. as a
counter
> to
> > the
> > > BMW E5, and rumors keep popping up that one of the higher line
Commodore
> > models
> > > (Calais most likely) might be introduced there as a replacement for
the
> > last
> > > rear drive Opel Omegas.
> > >
> > > --Aardwolf.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

 

The Commadore is a very nice car to drive, My mother, (A farmer) drives a V6
3.8L '89 commadore sedan, It will go up steep hills without shifting down,
and cruises in overdrive at 100Kmh (60Mph) at 2500 rpm.
I've never actually put it through it's paces properly, most cars I drive I
take to a deserted flat stretch of road 4 or so Km long and floor them. my
2L nissan could do 130Kmh before complaining, and could head up the highway
comfortably in cruise control at 120. My Isuzu Bighorn 2.8 Diesel could
manage 145Kmh and runs up the motorway at 140.
I floored my mums commodore and passed 180 and still accellerating when I
had to brake for a corner. so theres power to spare.
The police use 3.8 holdens as chase cars and highway patrol, with an
aftermarket ECU chip giving max speeds in the 250Kmh range.

Think of what a 5.7L V6 could do. amd the monaro body is lighter than the
'89 Commodores. more power, less weight, more tire grip (265/30R18 on the
monaro, 195/70R15 on the Commadore.) adds up to a pretty damn potent
vehicle.

rhys

"Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3f964eef$0$592$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com.. .
> Well, chaps, that's a timely note (about the Monaro). In last week's
Sunday
> Times, the UK's biggest selling quality Sunday paper, there was an item
> about the Monaro and how it's going to become the Pontiac GTO.
>
> Note that it was described as being of "old design, a relative of the
Omega
> saloon which disappeared from the price lists earlier this year...coming
to
> Britain [as] Vauxhall as a by-product of the decision to launch it in the
> US...
>
> "...GM sought a modern equivalent of its GTO and found this potent coupe
> lurking at its Australian outpost. The Vauxhall Monaro will have the same
> specs as the new GTO...5.7 litre engine V8... and six-speed manual gearbox
> from the Chevrolet Corvette it is loud and fast (0 - 60 mph in 5.5 sec),
yet
> more civilised than its American predecessor, the Pontiac Firebird. At
> present there is nothing quite like the Monaro available in Britain."
>
> Price is GBP 32K for the 360 bhp LSI. The 320 bhp CV8 will cost about GBP
> 28 000.
>
> "Coupes of equivalent size and performance are much more expensive --
> ...Merc CL and forthcoming BMW 6...Vauxhall led the UK car market with the
> Corsa [note: a small car]. Whether it has raised its reputation enough to
> sell a GPB 30K high-performance model remains to be seen."
>
> Just in case you don't all know, Vauxhall is GM's brand. I wonder if it
> will be launched on the Continent (as an Opel).
>
> I guess the Monaro will sit in a separate market niche as Saab is supposed
> to be up-market from Vauxhall/Opel. Saab cars are not that big though.
The
> most powerful engine is a 2.3 l turbo achieving 220 or 250 hp.
>
>
> An additional point is in connection with criticisms elsewhere of designs
> being 'pinched'. The big producers are global and would be foolish not to
> pick designs from all over the place. That said, I am not sure that the
US
> companies 'pinch' enough from their overseas affiliates.
>
>
> DAS
> ---
> NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
> ---
> "rnf2" <rnf2@waikato.ac.nz> wrote in message
> news:3f95ecc7@news.iconz.co.nz...
> > The 5.7L V8 is the latest descendant of the mighty Chevy smallblock
350ci.
> >
> > they can be modified to over 1000 Hp and still be drivable streetlegal.
> >
> > the 3.8 started as a USA GM engine, but a factory was built in Aussie
and
> > R&D changed it, it doesn't interchange well with stock USA GM parts that
> > well now, but theres plenty of support in Aussie for them. the 5L and
5.7L
> > are stock Chevys from Chevs plants in the states. plenty of parts if
they
> > bring Holdens stateside.
> >
> > rhys
> >
> > "Aardwolf" <se1aard1@itis.com> wrote in message
> > news:3F95EA40.41ED53E0@itis.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > rnf2 wrote:
> > >
> > > > Built in Australia, sold in Australia and New Zealand and a few
other
> > RHD
> > > > countries.
> > > > Smallest engine in one is 3.8L V6, and goes up to a 5.7L V8. and
even
> > the
> > > > 3.8 can tow 2000Kg, or 4000+ pounds, V8 is up to 3500Kg or so, 7000+
> > pounds.
> > > > www.holden.com.au and www.ford.com.au
> > > > They're big cargo haulers, and very popular with farmers, very
> reliable
> > and
> > > > can take some pretty harsh terrain and climate without flinching.
> > > > very popular with farmers, and can carry 8 people in the station
> wagons.
> > > > with a big boot (trunk) still.
> > > >
> > > > Commador is the entry level car, then the higher specced Berlina and
> the
> > > > luxary Calais.
> > > > then comes the SS, and HSV performance cars.
> > > >
> > > > rhys
> > >
> > > Also sold in mid east countries as Chevrolets with left hand drive--in
> any
> > case
> > > they use totally U.S. drivetrains (engines/transmissions) and can
easily
> > pass
> > > U.S. safety requirements as well. The new Pontiac GTO is a Holden
> Monaro
> > coupe
> > > with different badges. Thanks in large part to union interference
> GM-U.S.
> > keeps
> > > refusing to import any more mainline sedan models, but they'd
doubtless
> > eat all
> > > of the domestic competition as it is now. They'd be 350-horsepower
> family
> > > sedans for as little as $20K U.S.
> > >
> > > The Commodore line and variants come with Corvette engines of up to
350
> > > horsepower (or just over 400 for the HSV-modified versions) and can
> still
> > touch
> > > 30mpg (U.S.) on the highway with a 6-speed overdrive--or they can be
had
> > with
> > > smaller V6 powerplants. The long-wheelbase Statesman (mid east
> "Chevrolet
> > > Caprice") would be a superb replacement for the last U.S. models of
that
> > name,
> > > almost exactly the same size and layout, but incrementally improved
> > (newer, even
> > > more powerful engines, independent rear suspension, etc.).
> > >
> > > I believe the top-line HSV GTS is already sold in the U.K. as a
counter
> to
> > the
> > > BMW E5, and rumors keep popping up that one of the higher line
Commodore
> > models
> > > (Calais most likely) might be introduced there as a replacement for
the
> > last
> > > rear drive Opel Omegas.
> > >
> > > --Aardwolf.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

 

The Commadore is a very nice car to drive, My mother, (A farmer) drives a V6
3.8L '89 commadore sedan, It will go up steep hills without shifting down,
and cruises in overdrive at 100Kmh (60Mph) at 2500 rpm.
I've never actually put it through it's paces properly, most cars I drive I
take to a deserted flat stretch of road 4 or so Km long and floor them. my
2L nissan could do 130Kmh before complaining, and could head up the highway
comfortably in cruise control at 120. My Isuzu Bighorn 2.8 Diesel could
manage 145Kmh and runs up the motorway at 140.
I floored my mums commodore and passed 180 and still accellerating when I
had to brake for a corner. so theres power to spare.
The police use 3.8 holdens as chase cars and highway patrol, with an
aftermarket ECU chip giving max speeds in the 250Kmh range.

Think of what a 5.7L V6 could do. amd the monaro body is lighter than the
'89 Commodores. more power, less weight, more tire grip (265/30R18 on the
monaro, 195/70R15 on the Commadore.) adds up to a pretty damn potent
vehicle.

rhys

"Dori Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3f964eef$0$592$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com.. .
> Well, chaps, that's a timely note (about the Monaro). In last week's
Sunday
> Times, the UK's biggest selling quality Sunday paper, there was an item
> about the Monaro and how it's going to become the Pontiac GTO.
>
> Note that it was described as being of "old design, a relative of the
Omega
> saloon which disappeared from the price lists earlier this year...coming
to
> Britain [as] Vauxhall as a by-product of the decision to launch it in the
> US...
>
> "...GM sought a modern equivalent of its GTO and found this potent coupe
> lurking at its Australian outpost. The Vauxhall Monaro will have the same
> specs as the new GTO...5.7 litre engine V8... and six-speed manual gearbox
> from the Chevrolet Corvette it is loud and fast (0 - 60 mph in 5.5 sec),
yet
> more civilised than its American predecessor, the Pontiac Firebird. At
> present there is nothing quite like the Monaro available in Britain."
>
> Price is GBP 32K for the 360 bhp LSI. The 320 bhp CV8 will cost about GBP
> 28 000.
>
> "Coupes of equivalent size and performance are much more expensive --
> ...Merc CL and forthcoming BMW 6...Vauxhall led the UK car market with the
> Corsa [note: a small car]. Whether it has raised its reputation enough to
> sell a GPB 30K high-performance model remains to be seen."
>
> Just in case you don't all know, Vauxhall is GM's brand. I wonder if it
> will be launched on the Continent (as an Opel).
>
> I guess the Monaro will sit in a separate market niche as Saab is supposed
> to be up-market from Vauxhall/Opel. Saab cars are not that big though.
The
> most powerful engine is a 2.3 l turbo achieving 220 or 250 hp.
>
>
> An additional point is in connection with criticisms elsewhere of designs
> being 'pinched'. The big producers are global and would be foolish not to
> pick designs from all over the place. That said, I am not sure that the
US
> companies 'pinch' enough from their overseas affiliates.
>
>
> DAS
> ---
> NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
> ---
> "rnf2" <rnf2@waikato.ac.nz> wrote in message
> news:3f95ecc7@news.iconz.co.nz...
> > The 5.7L V8 is the latest descendant of the mighty Chevy smallblock
350ci.
> >
> > they can be modified to over 1000 Hp and still be drivable streetlegal.
> >
> > the 3.8 started as a USA GM engine, but a factory was built in Aussie
and
> > R&D changed it, it doesn't interchange well with stock USA GM parts that
> > well now, but theres plenty of support in Aussie for them. the 5L and
5.7L
> > are stock Chevys from Chevs plants in the states. plenty of parts if
they
> > bring Holdens stateside.
> >
> > rhys
> >
> > "Aardwolf" <se1aard1@itis.com> wrote in message
> > news:3F95EA40.41ED53E0@itis.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > rnf2 wrote:
> > >
> > > > Built in Australia, sold in Australia and New Zealand and a few
other
> > RHD
> > > > countries.
> > > > Smallest engine in one is 3.8L V6, and goes up to a 5.7L V8. and
even
> > the
> > > > 3.8 can tow 2000Kg, or 4000+ pounds, V8 is up to 3500Kg or so, 7000+
> > pounds.
> > > > www.holden.com.au and www.ford.com.au
> > > > They're big cargo haulers, and very popular with farmers, very
> reliable
> > and
> > > > can take some pretty harsh terrain and climate without flinching.
> > > > very popular with farmers, and can carry 8 people in the station
> wagons.
> > > > with a big boot (trunk) still.
> > > >
> > > > Commador is the entry level car, then the higher specced Berlina and
> the
> > > > luxary Calais.
> > > > then comes the SS, and HSV performance cars.
> > > >
> > > > rhys
> > >
> > > Also sold in mid east countries as Chevrolets with left hand drive--in
> any
> > case
> > > they use totally U.S. drivetrains (engines/transmissions) and can
easily
> > pass
> > > U.S. safety requirements as well. The new Pontiac GTO is a Holden
> Monaro
> > coupe
> > > with different badges. Thanks in large part to union interference
> GM-U.S.
> > keeps
> > > refusing to import any more mainline sedan models, but they'd
doubtless
> > eat all
> > > of the domestic competition as it is now. They'd be 350-horsepower
> family
> > > sedans for as little as $20K U.S.
> > >
> > > The Commodore line and variants come with Corvette engines of up to
350
> > > horsepower (or just over 400 for the HSV-modified versions) and can
> still
> > touch
> > > 30mpg (U.S.) on the highway with a 6-speed overdrive--or they can be
had
> > with
> > > smaller V6 powerplants. The long-wheelbase Statesman (mid east
> "Chevrolet
> > > Caprice") would be a superb replacement for the last U.S. models of
that
> > name,
> > > almost exactly the same size and layout, but incrementally improved
> > (newer, even
> > > more powerful engines, independent rear suspension, etc.).
> > >
> > > I believe the top-line HSV GTS is already sold in the U.K. as a
counter
> to
> > the
> > > BMW E5, and rumors keep popping up that one of the higher line
Commodore
> > models
> > > (Calais most likely) might be introduced there as a replacement for
the
> > last
> > > rear drive Opel Omegas.
> > >
> > > --Aardwolf.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

 

In article <Utjlb.606952$cF.273281@rwcrnsc53>,
tetraethyllead@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:
>In article <bn3gb2$ipg$5@puck.cc.emory.edu>, Lloyd Parker wrote:
>> In article <hf0lb.7706$W16.412@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>,
>> "Joe" <jo_ratner@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>Lloyd,
>>>Are you a Lliberal?
>>
>> Yep, like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and all the other founding
fathers.
>
>I don't think so. You'd call pratically everything on this page
>"right-wing-something-or-the-other" I am sure:
>
>http://www.gmu.edu/departments/econo...es/wisdom.html
>I think the first one speaks against a great number of things from the
>democrat party in the last oh 70 years:
>
>"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will
>herald the end of the republic." -- Benjamin Franklin
>
>And if not that, I am sure these founding father quotes would really
>get your panties in a bunch:
>
>http://www.gmu.edu/departments/econo...otes/arms.html
>
>Having read your writings over the years, as well as learned a fair
>amount about the "founding fathers" I see no agreement.
>
>Oh, and as far as JFK is concerned, funny how if you listen to JFK's
>speeches (recorded) keeping current views in mind, his talking about using
>tax cuts to stimulate the economy, etc etc you'd think he was a
>republican.....

Suyre, because tax rates were something like 90% at the upper end. Now that
they're 37%, you're going to lose revenue by cutting them, as Bush has done.

>
>
>

 

In article <Utjlb.606952$cF.273281@rwcrnsc53>,
tetraethyllead@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:
>In article <bn3gb2$ipg$5@puck.cc.emory.edu>, Lloyd Parker wrote:
>> In article <hf0lb.7706$W16.412@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>,
>> "Joe" <jo_ratner@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>Lloyd,
>>>Are you a Lliberal?
>>
>> Yep, like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and all the other founding
fathers.
>
>I don't think so. You'd call pratically everything on this page
>"right-wing-something-or-the-other" I am sure:
>
>http://www.gmu.edu/departments/econo...es/wisdom.html
>I think the first one speaks against a great number of things from the
>democrat party in the last oh 70 years:
>
>"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will
>herald the end of the republic." -- Benjamin Franklin
>
>And if not that, I am sure these founding father quotes would really
>get your panties in a bunch:
>
>http://www.gmu.edu/departments/econo...otes/arms.html
>
>Having read your writings over the years, as well as learned a fair
>amount about the "founding fathers" I see no agreement.
>
>Oh, and as far as JFK is concerned, funny how if you listen to JFK's
>speeches (recorded) keeping current views in mind, his talking about using
>tax cuts to stimulate the economy, etc etc you'd think he was a
>republican.....

Suyre, because tax rates were something like 90% at the upper end. Now that
they're 37%, you're going to lose revenue by cutting them, as Bush has done.

>
>
>

 

In article <Utjlb.606952$cF.273281@rwcrnsc53>,
tetraethyllead@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:
>In article <bn3gb2$ipg$5@puck.cc.emory.edu>, Lloyd Parker wrote:
>> In article <hf0lb.7706$W16.412@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>,
>> "Joe" <jo_ratner@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>Lloyd,
>>>Are you a Lliberal?
>>
>> Yep, like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and all the other founding
fathers.
>
>I don't think so. You'd call pratically everything on this page
>"right-wing-something-or-the-other" I am sure:
>
>http://www.gmu.edu/departments/econo...es/wisdom.html
>I think the first one speaks against a great number of things from the
>democrat party in the last oh 70 years:
>
>"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will
>herald the end of the republic." -- Benjamin Franklin
>
>And if not that, I am sure these founding father quotes would really
>get your panties in a bunch:
>
>http://www.gmu.edu/departments/econo...otes/arms.html
>
>Having read your writings over the years, as well as learned a fair
>amount about the "founding fathers" I see no agreement.
>
>Oh, and as far as JFK is concerned, funny how if you listen to JFK's
>speeches (recorded) keeping current views in mind, his talking about using
>tax cuts to stimulate the economy, etc etc you'd think he was a
>republican.....

Suyre, because tax rates were something like 90% at the upper end. Now that
they're 37%, you're going to lose revenue by cutting them, as Bush has done.

>
>
>

 

In article <pwllb.10278$W16.410@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink. net>,
"Joe" <jo_ratner@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>Interesting. The best president ever was not a liberal (Reagan)...

Your opinion is not fact.


> Much
>like Unions, Liberals were useful at one time. Now their time has passed
>and they won't die off quietly...

You can join Ann Coulter and advocate killing them, I guess.

>
>"Lloyd Parker" <lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu> wrote in message
>news:bn3gb2$ipg$5@puck.cc.emory.edu...
>> In article <hf0lb.7706$W16.412@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>,
>> "Joe" <jo_ratner@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >Lloyd,
>> >Are you a Lliberal?
>>
>> Yep, like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and all the other founding
>fathers.
>> Like John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, FDR, and all the other great
>presidents.
>> Like Jesus and Ghandi, for that matter.
>>
>> >LLOL
>> >
>> >"Lloyd Parker" <lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu> wrote in message
>> >news:bn1eq2$d15$2@puck.cc.emory.edu...
>> >> In article <gcc8pv89e67ac5f9qmmmfesoqbih6vd168@4ax.com>,
>> >> Bill Funk <bfunk33@qwest.net> wrote:
>> >> >On Mon, 20 Oct 03 11:33:12 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>>When CAFE standards were dreampt up, it was thought that trucks were
>> >not a
>> >> >>>significant part of the automotive population, trucks were used for
>> >work,
>> >> >>>not play.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>And we should have adjusted CAFE for trucks as they started being
>used
>> >as
>> >> cars
>> >> >>are used.
>> >> >
>> >> >And what would the buyers have done then?
>> >> >Gone to >8000lb trucks?
>> >> >
>> >> >You don't seem to want to let others do what they see as needed,
>> >>
>> >> No, there always have to be limitations, for the good of society.
>> >>
>> >> >instead wanting to decide for everyone what they should have.
>> >> >Why should you get to do that?
>> >> >Maybe you should look into moving to China or Cuba, where your talents
>> >> >may actually be in demand. They are really into deciding how the
>> >> >people should live there.
>> >> >
>> >> So you'd let people drive vehicles that pollute?
>> >
>> >
>
>

 

In article <pwllb.10278$W16.410@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink. net>,
"Joe" <jo_ratner@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>Interesting. The best president ever was not a liberal (Reagan)...

Your opinion is not fact.


> Much
>like Unions, Liberals were useful at one time. Now their time has passed
>and they won't die off quietly...

You can join Ann Coulter and advocate killing them, I guess.

>
>"Lloyd Parker" <lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu> wrote in message
>news:bn3gb2$ipg$5@puck.cc.emory.edu...
>> In article <hf0lb.7706$W16.412@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.n et>,
>> "Joe" <jo_ratner@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >Lloyd,
>> >Are you a Lliberal?
>>
>> Yep, like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and all the other founding
>fathers.
>> Like John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, FDR, and all the other great
>presidents.
>> Like Jesus and Ghandi, for that matter.
>>
>> >LLOL
>> >
>> >"Lloyd Parker" <lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu> wrote in message
>> >news:bn1eq2$d15$2@puck.cc.emory.edu...
>> >> In article <gcc8pv89e67ac5f9qmmmfesoqbih6vd168@4ax.com>,
>> >> Bill Funk <bfunk33@qwest.net> wrote:
>> >> >On Mon, 20 Oct 03 11:33:12 GMT, lparker@NOSPAMemory.edu (Lloyd Parker)
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>>When CAFE standards were dreampt up, it was thought that trucks were
>> >not a
>> >> >>>significant part of the automotive population, trucks were used for
>> >work,
>> >> >>>not play.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>And we should have adjusted CAFE for trucks as they started being
>used
>> >as
>> >> cars
>> >> >>are used.
>> >> >
>> >> >And what would the buyers have done then?
>> >> >Gone to >8000lb trucks?
>> >> >
>> >> >You don't seem to want to let others do what they see as needed,
>> >>
>> >> No, there always have to be limitations, for the good of society.
>> >>
>> >> >instead wanting to decide for everyone what they should have.
>> >> >Why should you get to do that?
>> >> >Maybe you should look into moving to China or Cuba, where your talents
>> >> >may actually be in demand. They are really into deciding how the
>> >> >people should live there.
>> >> >
>> >> So you'd let people drive vehicles that pollute?
>> >
>> >
>
>