Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
#1031
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Plus exhaust port air injection, pump, and gulp valve, for '66.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Aardwolf wrote:
>
> I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
> about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
> California.
>
> --Aardwolf.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Aardwolf wrote:
>
> I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
> about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
> California.
>
> --Aardwolf.
#1032
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Plus exhaust port air injection, pump, and gulp valve, for '66.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Aardwolf wrote:
>
> I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
> about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
> California.
>
> --Aardwolf.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Aardwolf wrote:
>
> I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
> about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
> California.
>
> --Aardwolf.
#1033
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
Plus exhaust port air injection, pump, and gulp valve, for '66.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Aardwolf wrote:
>
> I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
> about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
> California.
>
> --Aardwolf.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Aardwolf wrote:
>
> I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
> about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
> California.
>
> --Aardwolf.
#1034
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
"Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
news:3F92FC37.6080503@computer.org...
> Lisa Horton wrote:
> >
> > Chris Phillipo wrote:
> >
> >>In article <5ac380ce.0310181518.67be59b4@posting.google.com >,
> >>dianelos@tecapro.com says...
> >>
> >>>You may be right in many of your specifics, but I think that their
> >>>detail confuses the basic question here. The NHTSA study is not based
> >>>on arguments about physics, or even on crash tests. It is based or
> >>>real world data: it is based on then number of people who have in fact
> >>>died in SUVs as compared to the number of people who have died in
> >>>passenger cars of comparable or even less weight.
> >>>
> >>
> >>I'll tell you who is wrong in their specifics. Am I the only one to
> >>read the report that is being MIS-quoted?
> >>
> >> Driver Fatalities per Billion Vehicle Miles
> >>Very small 4-door cars 11.56
> >>Small 4-door cars 7.85
> >>Mid-size 4-door cars 5.26
> >>Large 4-door cars 3.30
> >>Compact pickup trucks 6.82
> >>Large (100-series) pickup trucks 4.07
> >>Small 4-door SUVs 5.68
> >>Mid-size 4-door SUVs 6.73
> >>Large 4-door SUVs 6.79
> >>Minivans 2.76
> >>
> >>The Four vehicle groups with the lowest fatality rates for their own
> >>drivers were minivans (2.76), large cars (3.30), large SUVs (3.79), and
> >>large (100-series) pickup trucks (4.07).
> >>
> >>Look who's on top.
> >
> >
> > Look who's NOT on top, your beloved SUV's. Large cars and minivans,
> > both of which represent a lesser threat to other drivers are on top. So
> > you can choose more safety for you, your family AND all the other
> > drivers on the road, or you can choose an SUV.
>
> Which should make us all wonder what explains the difference since most
> large SUVs are based on a full-size pick-up. So, I return to my
> previous comment that there is a lot more to these statistics than
> vehicle type. Most full-size four-wheel drive trucks have handling
> characteristics not all that far from SUVs, and probably worse
> characteristics when they are loaded. So how do all you statistics
> believers explain this 50% discrepancy between vehicles of very similar
> design? And since minivans have poorer handling characteristics than
> almost any car, why are they so much safer? Just points out that these
> stats must be taken with a large dose of skepticism.
>
>
> Matt
>
SUVs generally have a higher center of gravity than the pickups of the same
platform whether the pickup is loaded or not. As far as minivans go, the
people that drive them around here tend to drive like old ladies, whereas
many of the SUV drivers seem to think they own the road and drive the
stinkin things like a Ferrari instead of a truck.
#1035
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
"Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
news:3F92FC37.6080503@computer.org...
> Lisa Horton wrote:
> >
> > Chris Phillipo wrote:
> >
> >>In article <5ac380ce.0310181518.67be59b4@posting.google.com >,
> >>dianelos@tecapro.com says...
> >>
> >>>You may be right in many of your specifics, but I think that their
> >>>detail confuses the basic question here. The NHTSA study is not based
> >>>on arguments about physics, or even on crash tests. It is based or
> >>>real world data: it is based on then number of people who have in fact
> >>>died in SUVs as compared to the number of people who have died in
> >>>passenger cars of comparable or even less weight.
> >>>
> >>
> >>I'll tell you who is wrong in their specifics. Am I the only one to
> >>read the report that is being MIS-quoted?
> >>
> >> Driver Fatalities per Billion Vehicle Miles
> >>Very small 4-door cars 11.56
> >>Small 4-door cars 7.85
> >>Mid-size 4-door cars 5.26
> >>Large 4-door cars 3.30
> >>Compact pickup trucks 6.82
> >>Large (100-series) pickup trucks 4.07
> >>Small 4-door SUVs 5.68
> >>Mid-size 4-door SUVs 6.73
> >>Large 4-door SUVs 6.79
> >>Minivans 2.76
> >>
> >>The Four vehicle groups with the lowest fatality rates for their own
> >>drivers were minivans (2.76), large cars (3.30), large SUVs (3.79), and
> >>large (100-series) pickup trucks (4.07).
> >>
> >>Look who's on top.
> >
> >
> > Look who's NOT on top, your beloved SUV's. Large cars and minivans,
> > both of which represent a lesser threat to other drivers are on top. So
> > you can choose more safety for you, your family AND all the other
> > drivers on the road, or you can choose an SUV.
>
> Which should make us all wonder what explains the difference since most
> large SUVs are based on a full-size pick-up. So, I return to my
> previous comment that there is a lot more to these statistics than
> vehicle type. Most full-size four-wheel drive trucks have handling
> characteristics not all that far from SUVs, and probably worse
> characteristics when they are loaded. So how do all you statistics
> believers explain this 50% discrepancy between vehicles of very similar
> design? And since minivans have poorer handling characteristics than
> almost any car, why are they so much safer? Just points out that these
> stats must be taken with a large dose of skepticism.
>
>
> Matt
>
SUVs generally have a higher center of gravity than the pickups of the same
platform whether the pickup is loaded or not. As far as minivans go, the
people that drive them around here tend to drive like old ladies, whereas
many of the SUV drivers seem to think they own the road and drive the
stinkin things like a Ferrari instead of a truck.
#1036
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
"Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting@computer.org> wrote in message
news:3F92FC37.6080503@computer.org...
> Lisa Horton wrote:
> >
> > Chris Phillipo wrote:
> >
> >>In article <5ac380ce.0310181518.67be59b4@posting.google.com >,
> >>dianelos@tecapro.com says...
> >>
> >>>You may be right in many of your specifics, but I think that their
> >>>detail confuses the basic question here. The NHTSA study is not based
> >>>on arguments about physics, or even on crash tests. It is based or
> >>>real world data: it is based on then number of people who have in fact
> >>>died in SUVs as compared to the number of people who have died in
> >>>passenger cars of comparable or even less weight.
> >>>
> >>
> >>I'll tell you who is wrong in their specifics. Am I the only one to
> >>read the report that is being MIS-quoted?
> >>
> >> Driver Fatalities per Billion Vehicle Miles
> >>Very small 4-door cars 11.56
> >>Small 4-door cars 7.85
> >>Mid-size 4-door cars 5.26
> >>Large 4-door cars 3.30
> >>Compact pickup trucks 6.82
> >>Large (100-series) pickup trucks 4.07
> >>Small 4-door SUVs 5.68
> >>Mid-size 4-door SUVs 6.73
> >>Large 4-door SUVs 6.79
> >>Minivans 2.76
> >>
> >>The Four vehicle groups with the lowest fatality rates for their own
> >>drivers were minivans (2.76), large cars (3.30), large SUVs (3.79), and
> >>large (100-series) pickup trucks (4.07).
> >>
> >>Look who's on top.
> >
> >
> > Look who's NOT on top, your beloved SUV's. Large cars and minivans,
> > both of which represent a lesser threat to other drivers are on top. So
> > you can choose more safety for you, your family AND all the other
> > drivers on the road, or you can choose an SUV.
>
> Which should make us all wonder what explains the difference since most
> large SUVs are based on a full-size pick-up. So, I return to my
> previous comment that there is a lot more to these statistics than
> vehicle type. Most full-size four-wheel drive trucks have handling
> characteristics not all that far from SUVs, and probably worse
> characteristics when they are loaded. So how do all you statistics
> believers explain this 50% discrepancy between vehicles of very similar
> design? And since minivans have poorer handling characteristics than
> almost any car, why are they so much safer? Just points out that these
> stats must be taken with a large dose of skepticism.
>
>
> Matt
>
SUVs generally have a higher center of gravity than the pickups of the same
platform whether the pickup is loaded or not. As far as minivans go, the
people that drive them around here tend to drive like old ladies, whereas
many of the SUV drivers seem to think they own the road and drive the
stinkin things like a Ferrari instead of a truck.
#1037
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:52:48 -0500, Aardwolf <se1aard1@itis.com>
wrote:
>
>
>Bill Funk wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:18:02 -0500, Aardwolf <se1aard1@itis.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> That may be the case with hydrocarbons, but definitely not NOx. NOx is
>> >> directly
>> >> related to combustion temp, and most 60's cars had no EGR valve.
>> >
>> >I'm not aware of any that did.
>>
>> I had a '68 Camaro 327/350 that was built to CARB specs.
>> It had an EGR setup.
>
>I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
>about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
>California.
>
>--Aardwolf.
>
I think so too.
And I bought the Camaro in Georgia! Figger that out!?
wrote:
>
>
>Bill Funk wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:18:02 -0500, Aardwolf <se1aard1@itis.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> That may be the case with hydrocarbons, but definitely not NOx. NOx is
>> >> directly
>> >> related to combustion temp, and most 60's cars had no EGR valve.
>> >
>> >I'm not aware of any that did.
>>
>> I had a '68 Camaro 327/350 that was built to CARB specs.
>> It had an EGR setup.
>
>I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
>about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
>California.
>
>--Aardwolf.
>
I think so too.
And I bought the Camaro in Georgia! Figger that out!?
#1038
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:52:48 -0500, Aardwolf <se1aard1@itis.com>
wrote:
>
>
>Bill Funk wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:18:02 -0500, Aardwolf <se1aard1@itis.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> That may be the case with hydrocarbons, but definitely not NOx. NOx is
>> >> directly
>> >> related to combustion temp, and most 60's cars had no EGR valve.
>> >
>> >I'm not aware of any that did.
>>
>> I had a '68 Camaro 327/350 that was built to CARB specs.
>> It had an EGR setup.
>
>I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
>about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
>California.
>
>--Aardwolf.
>
I think so too.
And I bought the Camaro in Georgia! Figger that out!?
wrote:
>
>
>Bill Funk wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:18:02 -0500, Aardwolf <se1aard1@itis.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> That may be the case with hydrocarbons, but definitely not NOx. NOx is
>> >> directly
>> >> related to combustion temp, and most 60's cars had no EGR valve.
>> >
>> >I'm not aware of any that did.
>>
>> I had a '68 Camaro 327/350 that was built to CARB specs.
>> It had an EGR setup.
>
>I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
>about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
>California.
>
>--Aardwolf.
>
I think so too.
And I bought the Camaro in Georgia! Figger that out!?
#1039
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:52:48 -0500, Aardwolf <se1aard1@itis.com>
wrote:
>
>
>Bill Funk wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:18:02 -0500, Aardwolf <se1aard1@itis.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> That may be the case with hydrocarbons, but definitely not NOx. NOx is
>> >> directly
>> >> related to combustion temp, and most 60's cars had no EGR valve.
>> >
>> >I'm not aware of any that did.
>>
>> I had a '68 Camaro 327/350 that was built to CARB specs.
>> It had an EGR setup.
>
>I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
>about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
>California.
>
>--Aardwolf.
>
I think so too.
And I bought the Camaro in Georgia! Figger that out!?
wrote:
>
>
>Bill Funk wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 03:18:02 -0500, Aardwolf <se1aard1@itis.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> That may be the case with hydrocarbons, but definitely not NOx. NOx is
>> >> directly
>> >> related to combustion temp, and most 60's cars had no EGR valve.
>> >
>> >I'm not aware of any that did.
>>
>> I had a '68 Camaro 327/350 that was built to CARB specs.
>> It had an EGR setup.
>
>I knew they had really early requirements for PCV setups, but I didn't know
>about EGR setups that early on. I guess all bets are off when it comes to
>California.
>
>--Aardwolf.
>
I think so too.
And I bought the Camaro in Georgia! Figger that out!?
#1040
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
I don't see that in California, it's the little rice burner with
the megaphone exhaust tips that are zipping through many lanes of
traffic to cut people off, I don't think I've ever been past by an SUV.
Of course, we shoot people who get out of line.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
FDRanger92 wrote:
>
> SUVs generally have a higher center of gravity than the pickups of the same
> platform whether the pickup is loaded or not. As far as minivans go, the
> people that drive them around here tend to drive like old ladies, whereas
> many of the SUV drivers seem to think they own the road and drive the
> stinkin things like a Ferrari instead of a truck.
the megaphone exhaust tips that are zipping through many lanes of
traffic to cut people off, I don't think I've ever been past by an SUV.
Of course, we shoot people who get out of line.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
FDRanger92 wrote:
>
> SUVs generally have a higher center of gravity than the pickups of the same
> platform whether the pickup is loaded or not. As far as minivans go, the
> people that drive them around here tend to drive like old ladies, whereas
> many of the SUV drivers seem to think they own the road and drive the
> stinkin things like a Ferrari instead of a truck.