Tirya

"John Davies" <saab95aerowagon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nk52a1pd9as6etkkedcf88ou5efei3hf4n@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 01:10:29 GMT, Brian <b_heller@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>John, all the engineering is meant to accommodate basic physics, which
>>says that the greater mass wins. That's why the smaller vehicles, with
>>their crumple zones & air bags, get totalled in accidents with larger
>>vehicles that can be inexpensively patched up and put back on the road.
>
> Nope - a typical unmodified Wrangler is around 3500 pounds. The
> typical compact sedan is around 3200 pounds, with the larger sedans
> pushing 4000 or more, so in reality they are pretty equally matched in
> mass.
>
> Equal weights colliding, one with crumple zones and one with tub on a
> steel frame - guess which one is safer for the occupants? Add a lot of
> extra mass to one vehicle and yes, the equation changes. The truck I
> drive weighs 6000 pounds and has heavy offroad bumpers and yes, it
> will waste any little sedan that gets in the way..


I had to chuckle when I read this - last summer my TJ was hit by a Ford
F150, squarely on the driver's side front wheel. Fortunately it was a
relatively low-speed crash (we both saw it coming and stood on the brakes),
but it ended up doing $800 worth of damage to his front bumper, mount, etc.
As for the Jeep... well, it needed an alignment, but it needed one before
that, so... ;)

I was lucky. I am *extremely* well aware of that. But I still find it
amusing. (BTW, since I was at fault for the accident, I gave him a check to
get his truck repaired. =) )

Tirya
--
TDC Inca Jeeper
A girl and her Jeep... it's a beautiful thing...

Tirya

"John Davies" <saab95aerowagon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nk52a1pd9as6etkkedcf88ou5efei3hf4n@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 01:10:29 GMT, Brian <b_heller@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>John, all the engineering is meant to accommodate basic physics, which
>>says that the greater mass wins. That's why the smaller vehicles, with
>>their crumple zones & air bags, get totalled in accidents with larger
>>vehicles that can be inexpensively patched up and put back on the road.
>
> Nope - a typical unmodified Wrangler is around 3500 pounds. The
> typical compact sedan is around 3200 pounds, with the larger sedans
> pushing 4000 or more, so in reality they are pretty equally matched in
> mass.
>
> Equal weights colliding, one with crumple zones and one with tub on a
> steel frame - guess which one is safer for the occupants? Add a lot of
> extra mass to one vehicle and yes, the equation changes. The truck I
> drive weighs 6000 pounds and has heavy offroad bumpers and yes, it
> will waste any little sedan that gets in the way..


I had to chuckle when I read this - last summer my TJ was hit by a Ford
F150, squarely on the driver's side front wheel. Fortunately it was a
relatively low-speed crash (we both saw it coming and stood on the brakes),
but it ended up doing $800 worth of damage to his front bumper, mount, etc.
As for the Jeep... well, it needed an alignment, but it needed one before
that, so... ;)

I was lucky. I am *extremely* well aware of that. But I still find it
amusing. (BTW, since I was at fault for the accident, I gave him a check to
get his truck repaired. =) )

Tirya
--
TDC Inca Jeeper
A girl and her Jeep... it's a beautiful thing...

Tirya

"John Davies" <saab95aerowagon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nk52a1pd9as6etkkedcf88ou5efei3hf4n@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 01:10:29 GMT, Brian <b_heller@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>John, all the engineering is meant to accommodate basic physics, which
>>says that the greater mass wins. That's why the smaller vehicles, with
>>their crumple zones & air bags, get totalled in accidents with larger
>>vehicles that can be inexpensively patched up and put back on the road.
>
> Nope - a typical unmodified Wrangler is around 3500 pounds. The
> typical compact sedan is around 3200 pounds, with the larger sedans
> pushing 4000 or more, so in reality they are pretty equally matched in
> mass.
>
> Equal weights colliding, one with crumple zones and one with tub on a
> steel frame - guess which one is safer for the occupants? Add a lot of
> extra mass to one vehicle and yes, the equation changes. The truck I
> drive weighs 6000 pounds and has heavy offroad bumpers and yes, it
> will waste any little sedan that gets in the way..


I had to chuckle when I read this - last summer my TJ was hit by a Ford
F150, squarely on the driver's side front wheel. Fortunately it was a
relatively low-speed crash (we both saw it coming and stood on the brakes),
but it ended up doing $800 worth of damage to his front bumper, mount, etc.
As for the Jeep... well, it needed an alignment, but it needed one before
that, so... ;)

I was lucky. I am *extremely* well aware of that. But I still find it
amusing. (BTW, since I was at fault for the accident, I gave him a check to
get his truck repaired. =) )

Tirya
--
TDC Inca Jeeper
A girl and her Jeep... it's a beautiful thing...

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

I think it's great these little imports have crumple zones, they
should be able to stop me before I do any real damage to my frame.
YOu have notice how week their structures are, like most of them
that just hit something like a telephone pole will break in half:
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad095.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad098.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad317.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad075.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad110.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad424.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad430.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad423.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad076.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad433.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad432.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad441.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad538.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad045.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad453.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad537.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad536.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad504.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad503.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad318.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad058.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad555.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad551.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad550.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad541.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad540.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad535.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad529.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad523.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad521.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad511.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad510.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad449.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad428.shtml
http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad560.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

John Davies wrote:
>
> Nope - a typical unmodified Wrangler is around 3500 pounds. The
> typical compact sedan is around 3200 pounds, with the larger sedans
> pushing 4000 or more, so in reality they are pretty equally matched in
> mass.
>
> Equal weights colliding, one with crumple zones and one with tub on a
> steel frame - guess which one is safer for the occupants? Add a lot of
> extra mass to one vehicle and yes, the equation changes. The truck I
> drive weighs 6000 pounds and has heavy offroad bumpers and yes, it
> will waste any little sedan that gets in the way..
>
> This thread isn't about which vehicle survives a crash with less
> damage - it's about protecting newborn triplets.
>
> Have you ever looked at pics of old wrecked cars? They had thick steel
> bodies, no crumple zones and no seat belts. Usually the front end was
> tweaked a little and the left side of the windshield is gone from the
> driver being thrown forward and killed. The cars were cheap to fix for
> the widows - they just had to hose out the blood and replace the glass
> ;(
>
> John Davies

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

I think it's great these little imports have crumple zones, they
should be able to stop me before I do any real damage to my frame.
YOu have notice how week their structures are, like most of them
that just hit something like a telephone pole will break in half:
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad095.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad098.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad317.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad075.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad110.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad424.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad430.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad423.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad076.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad433.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad432.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad441.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad538.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad045.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad453.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad537.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad536.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad504.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad503.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad318.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad058.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad555.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad551.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad550.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad541.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad540.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad535.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad529.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad523.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad521.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad511.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad510.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad449.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad428.shtml
http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad560.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

John Davies wrote:
>
> Nope - a typical unmodified Wrangler is around 3500 pounds. The
> typical compact sedan is around 3200 pounds, with the larger sedans
> pushing 4000 or more, so in reality they are pretty equally matched in
> mass.
>
> Equal weights colliding, one with crumple zones and one with tub on a
> steel frame - guess which one is safer for the occupants? Add a lot of
> extra mass to one vehicle and yes, the equation changes. The truck I
> drive weighs 6000 pounds and has heavy offroad bumpers and yes, it
> will waste any little sedan that gets in the way..
>
> This thread isn't about which vehicle survives a crash with less
> damage - it's about protecting newborn triplets.
>
> Have you ever looked at pics of old wrecked cars? They had thick steel
> bodies, no crumple zones and no seat belts. Usually the front end was
> tweaked a little and the left side of the windshield is gone from the
> driver being thrown forward and killed. The cars were cheap to fix for
> the widows - they just had to hose out the blood and replace the glass
> ;(
>
> John Davies

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

I think it's great these little imports have crumple zones, they
should be able to stop me before I do any real damage to my frame.
YOu have notice how week their structures are, like most of them
that just hit something like a telephone pole will break in half:
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad095.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad098.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad317.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad075.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad110.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad424.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad430.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad423.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad076.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad433.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad432.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad441.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad538.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad045.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad453.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad537.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad536.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad504.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad503.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad318.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad058.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad555.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad551.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad550.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad541.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad540.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad535.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad529.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad523.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad521.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad511.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad510.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad449.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad428.shtml
http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad560.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

John Davies wrote:
>
> Nope - a typical unmodified Wrangler is around 3500 pounds. The
> typical compact sedan is around 3200 pounds, with the larger sedans
> pushing 4000 or more, so in reality they are pretty equally matched in
> mass.
>
> Equal weights colliding, one with crumple zones and one with tub on a
> steel frame - guess which one is safer for the occupants? Add a lot of
> extra mass to one vehicle and yes, the equation changes. The truck I
> drive weighs 6000 pounds and has heavy offroad bumpers and yes, it
> will waste any little sedan that gets in the way..
>
> This thread isn't about which vehicle survives a crash with less
> damage - it's about protecting newborn triplets.
>
> Have you ever looked at pics of old wrecked cars? They had thick steel
> bodies, no crumple zones and no seat belts. Usually the front end was
> tweaked a little and the left side of the windshield is gone from the
> driver being thrown forward and killed. The cars were cheap to fix for
> the widows - they just had to hose out the blood and replace the glass
> ;(
>
> John Davies

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

I think it's great these little imports have crumple zones, they
should be able to stop me before I do any real damage to my frame.
YOu have notice how week their structures are, like most of them
that just hit something like a telephone pole will break in half:
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad095.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad098.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad317.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad075.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad110.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad424.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad430.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad423.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad076.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad433.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad432.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad441.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad538.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad045.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad453.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad537.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad536.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad504.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad503.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad318.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad058.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad555.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad551.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad550.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad541.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad540.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad535.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad529.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad523.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad521.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad511.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad510.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad449.shtml
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad428.shtml
http://67.19.177.10/newphotos/bad/bad560.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

John Davies wrote:
>
> Nope - a typical unmodified Wrangler is around 3500 pounds. The
> typical compact sedan is around 3200 pounds, with the larger sedans
> pushing 4000 or more, so in reality they are pretty equally matched in
> mass.
>
> Equal weights colliding, one with crumple zones and one with tub on a
> steel frame - guess which one is safer for the occupants? Add a lot of
> extra mass to one vehicle and yes, the equation changes. The truck I
> drive weighs 6000 pounds and has heavy offroad bumpers and yes, it
> will waste any little sedan that gets in the way..
>
> This thread isn't about which vehicle survives a crash with less
> damage - it's about protecting newborn triplets.
>
> Have you ever looked at pics of old wrecked cars? They had thick steel
> bodies, no crumple zones and no seat belts. Usually the front end was
> tweaked a little and the left side of the windshield is gone from the
> driver being thrown forward and killed. The cars were cheap to fix for
> the widows - they just had to hose out the blood and replace the glass
> ;(
>
> John Davies

Dave Milne

That top one is a Camaro isn't it ?

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42A13705.FB8339B@***.net...
> I think it's great these little imports have crumple zones, they
> should be able to stop me before I do any real damage to my frame.
> YOu have notice how week their structures are, like most of them
> that just hit something like a telephone pole will break in half:
> http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad095.shtml

Dave Milne

That top one is a Camaro isn't it ?

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42A13705.FB8339B@***.net...
> I think it's great these little imports have crumple zones, they
> should be able to stop me before I do any real damage to my frame.
> YOu have notice how week their structures are, like most of them
> that just hit something like a telephone pole will break in half:
> http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad095.shtml

Dave Milne

That top one is a Camaro isn't it ?

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42A13705.FB8339B@***.net...
> I think it's great these little imports have crumple zones, they
> should be able to stop me before I do any real damage to my frame.
> YOu have notice how week their structures are, like most of them
> that just hit something like a telephone pole will break in half:
> http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...d/bad095.shtml