HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
Ok, the alternator is not turning on.
The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is
running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire
should/could
be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must
have 10 volts at least.
Mike,
brown wire has 11.85V key on
enginge running, 11.64-11.71V
alt to batt-12.21V
I think you said it had power right?
If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is
running. (stuck brushes syndrome)
Mike, whacked it 5 times 4 for you 1 good one for me....grin,,,
12.21V,,grrrrr, alt to batt,,
If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can
hand
slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator
won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.
tried your "slip-test," its tight.
The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the
alternator...
The ****** changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the
brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.
They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing
down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and
pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend
the
clip back up to hold good again.
Check that out and get back to us please.
original
wireing,,,
12.9V atl-to-batt
12.10V atl-to- ground frame
1.2V alt-to-case
wires reveresed,
Alt-to batt 12.21V
alt-to-ground frame 12.18V
alt-to-case .6V
johnP
again thanks for helpng me out here,
Mike
The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is
running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire
should/could
be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must
have 10 volts at least.
Mike,
brown wire has 11.85V key on
enginge running, 11.64-11.71V
alt to batt-12.21V
I think you said it had power right?
If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is
running. (stuck brushes syndrome)
Mike, whacked it 5 times 4 for you 1 good one for me....grin,,,
12.21V,,grrrrr, alt to batt,,
If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can
hand
slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator
won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.
tried your "slip-test," its tight.
The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the
alternator...
The ****** changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the
brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.
They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing
down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and
pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend
the
clip back up to hold good again.
Check that out and get back to us please.
original
wireing,,,
12.9V atl-to-batt
12.10V atl-to- ground frame
1.2V alt-to-case
wires reveresed,
Alt-to batt 12.21V
alt-to-ground frame 12.18V
alt-to-case .6V
johnP
again thanks for helpng me out here,
Mike
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
Ok, the alternator is not turning on.
The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is
running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire
should/could
be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must
have 10 volts at least.
Mike,
brown wire has 11.85V key on
enginge running, 11.64-11.71V
alt to batt-12.21V
I think you said it had power right?
If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is
running. (stuck brushes syndrome)
Mike, whacked it 5 times 4 for you 1 good one for me....grin,,,
12.21V,,grrrrr, alt to batt,,
If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can
hand
slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator
won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.
tried your "slip-test," its tight.
The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the
alternator...
The ****** changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the
brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.
They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing
down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and
pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend
the
clip back up to hold good again.
Check that out and get back to us please.
original
wireing,,,
12.9V atl-to-batt
12.10V atl-to- ground frame
1.2V alt-to-case
wires reveresed,
Alt-to batt 12.21V
alt-to-ground frame 12.18V
alt-to-case .6V
johnP
again thanks for helpng me out here,
Mike
The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is
running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire
should/could
be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must
have 10 volts at least.
Mike,
brown wire has 11.85V key on
enginge running, 11.64-11.71V
alt to batt-12.21V
I think you said it had power right?
If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is
running. (stuck brushes syndrome)
Mike, whacked it 5 times 4 for you 1 good one for me....grin,,,
12.21V,,grrrrr, alt to batt,,
If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can
hand
slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator
won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.
tried your "slip-test," its tight.
The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the
alternator...
The ****** changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the
brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.
They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing
down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and
pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend
the
clip back up to hold good again.
Check that out and get back to us please.
original
wireing,,,
12.9V atl-to-batt
12.10V atl-to- ground frame
1.2V alt-to-case
wires reveresed,
Alt-to batt 12.21V
alt-to-ground frame 12.18V
alt-to-case .6V
johnP
again thanks for helpng me out here,
Mike
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
Your readings should have it running.
The alternator is no damn good.
One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike
Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:
>
> Ok, the alternator is not turning on.
>
> The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is
> running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire
> should/could
> be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must
> have 10 volts at least.
>
> Mike,
> brown wire has 11.85V key on
> enginge running, 11.64-11.71V
>
> alt to batt-12.21V
>
> I think you said it had power right?
>
> If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is
> running. (stuck brushes syndrome)
>
> Mike, whacked it 5 times 4 for you 1 good one for me....grin,,,
> 12.21V,,grrrrr, alt to batt,,
>
> If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can
> hand
> slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator
> won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.
>
> tried your "slip-test," its tight.
>
> The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the
> alternator...
>
> The ****** changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the
> brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.
>
> They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing
> down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and
>
> pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend
> the
> clip back up to hold good again.
>
> Check that out and get back to us please.
>
> original
> wireing,,,
> 12.9V atl-to-batt
> 12.10V atl-to- ground frame
> 1.2V alt-to-case
>
> wires reveresed,
> Alt-to batt 12.21V
> alt-to-ground frame 12.18V
> alt-to-case .6V
>
> johnP
> again thanks for helpng me out here,
>
> Mike
The alternator is no damn good.
One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike
Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:
>
> Ok, the alternator is not turning on.
>
> The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is
> running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire
> should/could
> be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must
> have 10 volts at least.
>
> Mike,
> brown wire has 11.85V key on
> enginge running, 11.64-11.71V
>
> alt to batt-12.21V
>
> I think you said it had power right?
>
> If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is
> running. (stuck brushes syndrome)
>
> Mike, whacked it 5 times 4 for you 1 good one for me....grin,,,
> 12.21V,,grrrrr, alt to batt,,
>
> If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can
> hand
> slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator
> won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.
>
> tried your "slip-test," its tight.
>
> The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the
> alternator...
>
> The ****** changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the
> brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.
>
> They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing
> down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and
>
> pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend
> the
> clip back up to hold good again.
>
> Check that out and get back to us please.
>
> original
> wireing,,,
> 12.9V atl-to-batt
> 12.10V atl-to- ground frame
> 1.2V alt-to-case
>
> wires reveresed,
> Alt-to batt 12.21V
> alt-to-ground frame 12.18V
> alt-to-case .6V
>
> johnP
> again thanks for helpng me out here,
>
> Mike
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
Your readings should have it running.
The alternator is no damn good.
One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike
Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:
>
> Ok, the alternator is not turning on.
>
> The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is
> running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire
> should/could
> be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must
> have 10 volts at least.
>
> Mike,
> brown wire has 11.85V key on
> enginge running, 11.64-11.71V
>
> alt to batt-12.21V
>
> I think you said it had power right?
>
> If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is
> running. (stuck brushes syndrome)
>
> Mike, whacked it 5 times 4 for you 1 good one for me....grin,,,
> 12.21V,,grrrrr, alt to batt,,
>
> If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can
> hand
> slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator
> won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.
>
> tried your "slip-test," its tight.
>
> The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the
> alternator...
>
> The ****** changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the
> brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.
>
> They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing
> down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and
>
> pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend
> the
> clip back up to hold good again.
>
> Check that out and get back to us please.
>
> original
> wireing,,,
> 12.9V atl-to-batt
> 12.10V atl-to- ground frame
> 1.2V alt-to-case
>
> wires reveresed,
> Alt-to batt 12.21V
> alt-to-ground frame 12.18V
> alt-to-case .6V
>
> johnP
> again thanks for helpng me out here,
>
> Mike
The alternator is no damn good.
One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike
Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:
>
> Ok, the alternator is not turning on.
>
> The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is
> running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire
> should/could
> be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must
> have 10 volts at least.
>
> Mike,
> brown wire has 11.85V key on
> enginge running, 11.64-11.71V
>
> alt to batt-12.21V
>
> I think you said it had power right?
>
> If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is
> running. (stuck brushes syndrome)
>
> Mike, whacked it 5 times 4 for you 1 good one for me....grin,,,
> 12.21V,,grrrrr, alt to batt,,
>
> If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can
> hand
> slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator
> won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.
>
> tried your "slip-test," its tight.
>
> The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the
> alternator...
>
> The ****** changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the
> brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.
>
> They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing
> down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and
>
> pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend
> the
> clip back up to hold good again.
>
> Check that out and get back to us please.
>
> original
> wireing,,,
> 12.9V atl-to-batt
> 12.10V atl-to- ground frame
> 1.2V alt-to-case
>
> wires reveresed,
> Alt-to batt 12.21V
> alt-to-ground frame 12.18V
> alt-to-case .6V
>
> johnP
> again thanks for helpng me out here,
>
> Mike
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
Your readings should have it running.
The alternator is no damn good.
One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike
Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:
>
> Ok, the alternator is not turning on.
>
> The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is
> running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire
> should/could
> be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must
> have 10 volts at least.
>
> Mike,
> brown wire has 11.85V key on
> enginge running, 11.64-11.71V
>
> alt to batt-12.21V
>
> I think you said it had power right?
>
> If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is
> running. (stuck brushes syndrome)
>
> Mike, whacked it 5 times 4 for you 1 good one for me....grin,,,
> 12.21V,,grrrrr, alt to batt,,
>
> If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can
> hand
> slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator
> won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.
>
> tried your "slip-test," its tight.
>
> The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the
> alternator...
>
> The ****** changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the
> brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.
>
> They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing
> down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and
>
> pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend
> the
> clip back up to hold good again.
>
> Check that out and get back to us please.
>
> original
> wireing,,,
> 12.9V atl-to-batt
> 12.10V atl-to- ground frame
> 1.2V alt-to-case
>
> wires reveresed,
> Alt-to batt 12.21V
> alt-to-ground frame 12.18V
> alt-to-case .6V
>
> johnP
> again thanks for helpng me out here,
>
> Mike
The alternator is no damn good.
One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike
Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:
>
> Ok, the alternator is not turning on.
>
> The small brown wire should have 10-14 volts on it when the engine is
> running or when the key is in the 'on' position. This wire
> should/could
> be lower volts than the direct power line so no worries, but it must
> have 10 volts at least.
>
> Mike,
> brown wire has 11.85V key on
> enginge running, 11.64-11.71V
>
> alt to batt-12.21V
>
> I think you said it had power right?
>
> If so, take a hammer and give the alternator case a whack while it is
> running. (stuck brushes syndrome)
>
> Mike, whacked it 5 times 4 for you 1 good one for me....grin,,,
> 12.21V,,grrrrr, alt to batt,,
>
> If that doesn't bring it up to 14V+, shut it off and see if you can
> hand
> slip the alternator pulley in the belt. If it slips, the alternator
> won't turn on likely, so tighten or replace it if already tight.
>
> tried your "slip-test," its tight.
>
> The other 'real' sneaky one is the small white plug on the back of the
> alternator...
>
> The ****** changed the order of the pins right around 1990. So the
> brown and red wires could just be in the wrong place. Seriously.
>
> They can be removed from the plug with a small screw driver by pushing
> down on the clip on the back of the brass piece from the front side and
>
> pulling from the wire side of the plug. You then might have to bend
> the
> clip back up to hold good again.
>
> Check that out and get back to us please.
>
> original
> wireing,,,
> 12.9V atl-to-batt
> 12.10V atl-to- ground frame
> 1.2V alt-to-case
>
> wires reveresed,
> Alt-to batt 12.21V
> alt-to-ground frame 12.18V
> alt-to-case .6V
>
> johnP
> again thanks for helpng me out here,
>
> Mike
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
WHOOOOOOWHOOOOOO,, i think,
Mike writes,,,,,,,One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike make it three times,
hooked cable to neg on batt.
reached over and clipped the alt bracket,
BIG spark,
jumped,
re-clipped the cable no spark,
alt-post to ground 14.5 volts
my batt is charging acording to my dash gauge.
SO NOW,,, whats the BAD,,good,,news?
i havnt shut the jeep off yet,
johnp
Mike writes,,,,,,,One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike make it three times,
hooked cable to neg on batt.
reached over and clipped the alt bracket,
BIG spark,
jumped,
re-clipped the cable no spark,
alt-post to ground 14.5 volts
my batt is charging acording to my dash gauge.
SO NOW,,, whats the BAD,,good,,news?
i havnt shut the jeep off yet,
johnp
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
WHOOOOOOWHOOOOOO,, i think,
Mike writes,,,,,,,One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike make it three times,
hooked cable to neg on batt.
reached over and clipped the alt bracket,
BIG spark,
jumped,
re-clipped the cable no spark,
alt-post to ground 14.5 volts
my batt is charging acording to my dash gauge.
SO NOW,,, whats the BAD,,good,,news?
i havnt shut the jeep off yet,
johnp
Mike writes,,,,,,,One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike make it three times,
hooked cable to neg on batt.
reached over and clipped the alt bracket,
BIG spark,
jumped,
re-clipped the cable no spark,
alt-post to ground 14.5 volts
my batt is charging acording to my dash gauge.
SO NOW,,, whats the BAD,,good,,news?
i havnt shut the jeep off yet,
johnp
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
WHOOOOOOWHOOOOOO,, i think,
Mike writes,,,,,,,One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike make it three times,
hooked cable to neg on batt.
reached over and clipped the alt bracket,
BIG spark,
jumped,
re-clipped the cable no spark,
alt-post to ground 14.5 volts
my batt is charging acording to my dash gauge.
SO NOW,,, whats the BAD,,good,,news?
i havnt shut the jeep off yet,
johnp
Mike writes,,,,,,,One last test just for the heck of it....
Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
case and see if it turns on.
I have seen that happen twice.
Mike make it three times,
hooked cable to neg on batt.
reached over and clipped the alt bracket,
BIG spark,
jumped,
re-clipped the cable no spark,
alt-post to ground 14.5 volts
my batt is charging acording to my dash gauge.
SO NOW,,, whats the BAD,,good,,news?
i havnt shut the jeep off yet,
johnp
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
Son of a......
Cool!
Ok, now you can use the booster to find the bad connection. Hook it on
the alternator bracket and see if the voltage drops, then hook it on the
engine block.
I am figuring the alternator bracket has lost it's ground to the block.
It does happen. I usually just get a second black ground wire and go
from the alternator bolt or the bracket to the battery negative so the
alternator has a dedicated ground.
Mike
Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:
>
> WHOOOOOOWHOOOOOO,, i think,
>
> Mike writes,,,,,,,One last test just for the heck of it....
>
> Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
>
> case and see if it turns on.
>
> I have seen that happen twice.
>
> Mike make it three times,
> hooked cable to neg on batt.
> reached over and clipped the alt bracket,
> BIG spark,
> jumped,
> re-clipped the cable no spark,
> alt-post to ground 14.5 volts
> my batt is charging acording to my dash gauge.
>
> SO NOW,,, whats the BAD,,good,,news?
> i havnt shut the jeep off yet,
>
> johnp
Cool!
Ok, now you can use the booster to find the bad connection. Hook it on
the alternator bracket and see if the voltage drops, then hook it on the
engine block.
I am figuring the alternator bracket has lost it's ground to the block.
It does happen. I usually just get a second black ground wire and go
from the alternator bolt or the bracket to the battery negative so the
alternator has a dedicated ground.
Mike
Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:
>
> WHOOOOOOWHOOOOOO,, i think,
>
> Mike writes,,,,,,,One last test just for the heck of it....
>
> Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
>
> case and see if it turns on.
>
> I have seen that happen twice.
>
> Mike make it three times,
> hooked cable to neg on batt.
> reached over and clipped the alt bracket,
> BIG spark,
> jumped,
> re-clipped the cable no spark,
> alt-post to ground 14.5 volts
> my batt is charging acording to my dash gauge.
>
> SO NOW,,, whats the BAD,,good,,news?
> i havnt shut the jeep off yet,
>
> johnp
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: HELP,,electrical nightmare 90YJ 2.5
Son of a......
Cool!
Ok, now you can use the booster to find the bad connection. Hook it on
the alternator bracket and see if the voltage drops, then hook it on the
engine block.
I am figuring the alternator bracket has lost it's ground to the block.
It does happen. I usually just get a second black ground wire and go
from the alternator bolt or the bracket to the battery negative so the
alternator has a dedicated ground.
Mike
Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:
>
> WHOOOOOOWHOOOOOO,, i think,
>
> Mike writes,,,,,,,One last test just for the heck of it....
>
> Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
>
> case and see if it turns on.
>
> I have seen that happen twice.
>
> Mike make it three times,
> hooked cable to neg on batt.
> reached over and clipped the alt bracket,
> BIG spark,
> jumped,
> re-clipped the cable no spark,
> alt-post to ground 14.5 volts
> my batt is charging acording to my dash gauge.
>
> SO NOW,,, whats the BAD,,good,,news?
> i havnt shut the jeep off yet,
>
> johnp
Cool!
Ok, now you can use the booster to find the bad connection. Hook it on
the alternator bracket and see if the voltage drops, then hook it on the
engine block.
I am figuring the alternator bracket has lost it's ground to the block.
It does happen. I usually just get a second black ground wire and go
from the alternator bolt or the bracket to the battery negative so the
alternator has a dedicated ground.
Mike
Dirty Ditch Dawg wrote:
>
> WHOOOOOOWHOOOOOO,, i think,
>
> Mike writes,,,,,,,One last test just for the heck of it....
>
> Try running a booster cable from the battery negative to the alternator
>
> case and see if it turns on.
>
> I have seen that happen twice.
>
> Mike make it three times,
> hooked cable to neg on batt.
> reached over and clipped the alt bracket,
> BIG spark,
> jumped,
> re-clipped the cable no spark,
> alt-post to ground 14.5 volts
> my batt is charging acording to my dash gauge.
>
> SO NOW,,, whats the BAD,,good,,news?
> i havnt shut the jeep off yet,
>
> johnp