Head Gaskets .... What brand are you guys using?
08-05-2005, 01:56 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Head Gaskets .... What brand are you guys using?
Hey Chris,
Yes, I was referring to loctite, but only for the bolt threads......never for
a gasket.....
But......I would think that if you use locktite, becase the threads are
wetted and not dry, an adjustment on the torque should be made for the wet
threads.......Not sure if this should be oil, sealant adjustment??? Wasn't
looking at a manual when I wrote the post......
Thanks for picking up all the other stuff I missed......GREAT input.....
c wrote:
>To add a little to this, make sure that the threads on the bolts and in the
>block are clean too. It doesn't take much crud to really throw the torque
>readings off. Also, do NOT put any sealer on these gaskets. I may have
>misinterpreted your post, but sealer on these gaskets is a no-no. If the
>head was milled, make sure the surface wasn't machined too smooth. This will
>cause problems as well. The finish should be about 100 RMS, which any
>competent engine shop should be capable of checking.. Be careful using oil
>on the bolts when you tighten them, this may cause you to over torque if you
>don't adjust the readings to allow for oil on the threads. clean the
>surfaces and make sure there is no gasket material left on them when you put
>the new gasket on. then clean the surfaces with lacquer thinner, or some
>other solvent that doesn't leave a film. Don't use gasoline. The non
>chlorinated brake cleaner works good for this, but make sure you don't get
>it on anything that has paint on it, because it will ruin the paint. One
>other thing you may want to check is to make sure the head sits against the
>surface of the block without the gasket in place. On rare occasions the
>locating pins will not let the head slide on completely and could cause this
>problem. Last, do not over torque the bolts, this can damage the sealing
>ring in the gasket. As far as the Fel-Pro gaskets are concerned, I have used
>them for years without any troubles, so I would suspect the issues are
>somewhere else.
>
>Chris
>
>> Well Rich, I actuall PREFER FelPro gaskets. BUT.......
>> you have to be absolutely sure that the surfaces are straight and flat.......
>[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>> >thanx
>> >Rich H
--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200508/1
Yes, I was referring to loctite, but only for the bolt threads......never for
a gasket.....
But......I would think that if you use locktite, becase the threads are
wetted and not dry, an adjustment on the torque should be made for the wet
threads.......Not sure if this should be oil, sealant adjustment??? Wasn't
looking at a manual when I wrote the post......
Thanks for picking up all the other stuff I missed......GREAT input.....
c wrote:
>To add a little to this, make sure that the threads on the bolts and in the
>block are clean too. It doesn't take much crud to really throw the torque
>readings off. Also, do NOT put any sealer on these gaskets. I may have
>misinterpreted your post, but sealer on these gaskets is a no-no. If the
>head was milled, make sure the surface wasn't machined too smooth. This will
>cause problems as well. The finish should be about 100 RMS, which any
>competent engine shop should be capable of checking.. Be careful using oil
>on the bolts when you tighten them, this may cause you to over torque if you
>don't adjust the readings to allow for oil on the threads. clean the
>surfaces and make sure there is no gasket material left on them when you put
>the new gasket on. then clean the surfaces with lacquer thinner, or some
>other solvent that doesn't leave a film. Don't use gasoline. The non
>chlorinated brake cleaner works good for this, but make sure you don't get
>it on anything that has paint on it, because it will ruin the paint. One
>other thing you may want to check is to make sure the head sits against the
>surface of the block without the gasket in place. On rare occasions the
>locating pins will not let the head slide on completely and could cause this
>problem. Last, do not over torque the bolts, this can damage the sealing
>ring in the gasket. As far as the Fel-Pro gaskets are concerned, I have used
>them for years without any troubles, so I would suspect the issues are
>somewhere else.
>
>Chris
>
>> Well Rich, I actuall PREFER FelPro gaskets. BUT.......
>> you have to be absolutely sure that the surfaces are straight and flat.......
>[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>> >thanx
>> >Rich H
--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200508/1
08-05-2005, 01:57 AM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Head Gaskets .... What brand are you guys using?
maybe he's oiling the threads, and getting a puddle of oil in the hole,
causing the bolts to not seat properly??? any thoughts?
c wrote:
>Rich,
>
>Without having an engine manual here, I don't know if you are supposed to
>oil the bolts or not. It varies from engine to engine, so make sure you're
>doing the proper procedure. Oiling the bolts when they aren't supposed to be
>oiled will cause a serious overtorque, and also, not oiling the bolts if
>they are supposed to be oiled will cause the bolts to be undertorqued. There
>is a chart and a short explanation about the differences in torque specs
>dry, with oil, and with assembly lube here:
>
>http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/tech/images/fasttorq.pdf
>
>Chris
>
>> I always use NEW bolts, and properly oil them and run a bottom tap in
>> the bolting bores, I also measure the bolt length to ensure that they
>> are not 'bottoming' out, etc.
>>
>> You guys are 'great'.- Many thanks, much appreciated.
--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200508/1
causing the bolts to not seat properly??? any thoughts?
c wrote:
>Rich,
>
>Without having an engine manual here, I don't know if you are supposed to
>oil the bolts or not. It varies from engine to engine, so make sure you're
>doing the proper procedure. Oiling the bolts when they aren't supposed to be
>oiled will cause a serious overtorque, and also, not oiling the bolts if
>they are supposed to be oiled will cause the bolts to be undertorqued. There
>is a chart and a short explanation about the differences in torque specs
>dry, with oil, and with assembly lube here:
>
>http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/tech/images/fasttorq.pdf
>
>Chris
>
>> I always use NEW bolts, and properly oil them and run a bottom tap in
>> the bolting bores, I also measure the bolt length to ensure that they
>> are not 'bottoming' out, etc.
>>
>> You guys are 'great'.- Many thanks, much appreciated.
--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200508/1
08-05-2005, 01:57 AM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Head Gaskets .... What brand are you guys using?
maybe he's oiling the threads, and getting a puddle of oil in the hole,
causing the bolts to not seat properly??? any thoughts?
c wrote:
>Rich,
>
>Without having an engine manual here, I don't know if you are supposed to
>oil the bolts or not. It varies from engine to engine, so make sure you're
>doing the proper procedure. Oiling the bolts when they aren't supposed to be
>oiled will cause a serious overtorque, and also, not oiling the bolts if
>they are supposed to be oiled will cause the bolts to be undertorqued. There
>is a chart and a short explanation about the differences in torque specs
>dry, with oil, and with assembly lube here:
>
>http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/tech/images/fasttorq.pdf
>
>Chris
>
>> I always use NEW bolts, and properly oil them and run a bottom tap in
>> the bolting bores, I also measure the bolt length to ensure that they
>> are not 'bottoming' out, etc.
>>
>> You guys are 'great'.- Many thanks, much appreciated.
--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200508/1
causing the bolts to not seat properly??? any thoughts?
c wrote:
>Rich,
>
>Without having an engine manual here, I don't know if you are supposed to
>oil the bolts or not. It varies from engine to engine, so make sure you're
>doing the proper procedure. Oiling the bolts when they aren't supposed to be
>oiled will cause a serious overtorque, and also, not oiling the bolts if
>they are supposed to be oiled will cause the bolts to be undertorqued. There
>is a chart and a short explanation about the differences in torque specs
>dry, with oil, and with assembly lube here:
>
>http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/tech/images/fasttorq.pdf
>
>Chris
>
>> I always use NEW bolts, and properly oil them and run a bottom tap in
>> the bolting bores, I also measure the bolt length to ensure that they
>> are not 'bottoming' out, etc.
>>
>> You guys are 'great'.- Many thanks, much appreciated.
--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200508/1
08-05-2005, 01:57 AM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Head Gaskets .... What brand are you guys using?
maybe he's oiling the threads, and getting a puddle of oil in the hole,
causing the bolts to not seat properly??? any thoughts?
c wrote:
>Rich,
>
>Without having an engine manual here, I don't know if you are supposed to
>oil the bolts or not. It varies from engine to engine, so make sure you're
>doing the proper procedure. Oiling the bolts when they aren't supposed to be
>oiled will cause a serious overtorque, and also, not oiling the bolts if
>they are supposed to be oiled will cause the bolts to be undertorqued. There
>is a chart and a short explanation about the differences in torque specs
>dry, with oil, and with assembly lube here:
>
>http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/tech/images/fasttorq.pdf
>
>Chris
>
>> I always use NEW bolts, and properly oil them and run a bottom tap in
>> the bolting bores, I also measure the bolt length to ensure that they
>> are not 'bottoming' out, etc.
>>
>> You guys are 'great'.- Many thanks, much appreciated.
--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200508/1
causing the bolts to not seat properly??? any thoughts?
c wrote:
>Rich,
>
>Without having an engine manual here, I don't know if you are supposed to
>oil the bolts or not. It varies from engine to engine, so make sure you're
>doing the proper procedure. Oiling the bolts when they aren't supposed to be
>oiled will cause a serious overtorque, and also, not oiling the bolts if
>they are supposed to be oiled will cause the bolts to be undertorqued. There
>is a chart and a short explanation about the differences in torque specs
>dry, with oil, and with assembly lube here:
>
>http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/tech/images/fasttorq.pdf
>
>Chris
>
>> I always use NEW bolts, and properly oil them and run a bottom tap in
>> the bolting bores, I also measure the bolt length to ensure that they
>> are not 'bottoming' out, etc.
>>
>> You guys are 'great'.- Many thanks, much appreciated.
--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200508/1
08-05-2005, 01:57 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Head Gaskets .... What brand are you guys using?
maybe he's oiling the threads, and getting a puddle of oil in the hole,
causing the bolts to not seat properly??? any thoughts?
c wrote:
>Rich,
>
>Without having an engine manual here, I don't know if you are supposed to
>oil the bolts or not. It varies from engine to engine, so make sure you're
>doing the proper procedure. Oiling the bolts when they aren't supposed to be
>oiled will cause a serious overtorque, and also, not oiling the bolts if
>they are supposed to be oiled will cause the bolts to be undertorqued. There
>is a chart and a short explanation about the differences in torque specs
>dry, with oil, and with assembly lube here:
>
>http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/tech/images/fasttorq.pdf
>
>Chris
>
>> I always use NEW bolts, and properly oil them and run a bottom tap in
>> the bolting bores, I also measure the bolt length to ensure that they
>> are not 'bottoming' out, etc.
>>
>> You guys are 'great'.- Many thanks, much appreciated.
--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200508/1
causing the bolts to not seat properly??? any thoughts?
c wrote:
>Rich,
>
>Without having an engine manual here, I don't know if you are supposed to
>oil the bolts or not. It varies from engine to engine, so make sure you're
>doing the proper procedure. Oiling the bolts when they aren't supposed to be
>oiled will cause a serious overtorque, and also, not oiling the bolts if
>they are supposed to be oiled will cause the bolts to be undertorqued. There
>is a chart and a short explanation about the differences in torque specs
>dry, with oil, and with assembly lube here:
>
>http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/tech/images/fasttorq.pdf
>
>Chris
>
>> I always use NEW bolts, and properly oil them and run a bottom tap in
>> the bolting bores, I also measure the bolt length to ensure that they
>> are not 'bottoming' out, etc.
>>
>> You guys are 'great'.- Many thanks, much appreciated.
--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/jeep-cars/200508/1
08-05-2005, 06:25 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Head Gaskets .... What brand are you guys using?
"Rich Hampel" <RhmpL33@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:030820052205015292%RhmpL33@nospam.net...
> Been having problems with blown head gaskets.
> Ive been using FelPro blue stripe head gaskets ..... the supposed kind
> that dont require sealing nor re-torquing. Twice now I've blown into
> the cooling jacket/passages. The second time I over-torqued and it
> still blew. (all the srufaces are FLAT). These 'blue stripe' gaskets
> seem 'awfully hard' ... am I 'missing something'?
>
> Whats the best out there these days? I usually prefer to seal with
> aircraft grade permatex and dont mind retorquing until the cows come
> home. Im certainly NOT happy with these "blue stripe Fel-Pros". Whats
> your favorite 'brand' these days.
I prefer Fel Pro, but I've used McCord and felt they were high quality as
well.
08-05-2005, 06:25 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Head Gaskets .... What brand are you guys using?
"Rich Hampel" <RhmpL33@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:030820052205015292%RhmpL33@nospam.net...
> Been having problems with blown head gaskets.
> Ive been using FelPro blue stripe head gaskets ..... the supposed kind
> that dont require sealing nor re-torquing. Twice now I've blown into
> the cooling jacket/passages. The second time I over-torqued and it
> still blew. (all the srufaces are FLAT). These 'blue stripe' gaskets
> seem 'awfully hard' ... am I 'missing something'?
>
> Whats the best out there these days? I usually prefer to seal with
> aircraft grade permatex and dont mind retorquing until the cows come
> home. Im certainly NOT happy with these "blue stripe Fel-Pros". Whats
> your favorite 'brand' these days.
I prefer Fel Pro, but I've used McCord and felt they were high quality as
well.
08-05-2005, 06:25 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Head Gaskets .... What brand are you guys using?
"Rich Hampel" <RhmpL33@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:030820052205015292%RhmpL33@nospam.net...
> Been having problems with blown head gaskets.
> Ive been using FelPro blue stripe head gaskets ..... the supposed kind
> that dont require sealing nor re-torquing. Twice now I've blown into
> the cooling jacket/passages. The second time I over-torqued and it
> still blew. (all the srufaces are FLAT). These 'blue stripe' gaskets
> seem 'awfully hard' ... am I 'missing something'?
>
> Whats the best out there these days? I usually prefer to seal with
> aircraft grade permatex and dont mind retorquing until the cows come
> home. Im certainly NOT happy with these "blue stripe Fel-Pros". Whats
> your favorite 'brand' these days.
I prefer Fel Pro, but I've used McCord and felt they were high quality as
well.
08-05-2005, 06:25 PM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Head Gaskets .... What brand are you guys using?
"Rich Hampel" <RhmpL33@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:030820052205015292%RhmpL33@nospam.net...
> Been having problems with blown head gaskets.
> Ive been using FelPro blue stripe head gaskets ..... the supposed kind
> that dont require sealing nor re-torquing. Twice now I've blown into
> the cooling jacket/passages. The second time I over-torqued and it
> still blew. (all the srufaces are FLAT). These 'blue stripe' gaskets
> seem 'awfully hard' ... am I 'missing something'?
>
> Whats the best out there these days? I usually prefer to seal with
> aircraft grade permatex and dont mind retorquing until the cows come
> home. Im certainly NOT happy with these "blue stripe Fel-Pros". Whats
> your favorite 'brand' these days.
I prefer Fel Pro, but I've used McCord and felt they were high quality as
well.
08-07-2005, 07:03 PM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Head Gaskets .... PROBLEM FOUND
In article <030820052205015292%RhmpL33@nospam.net>, Rich Hampel
<RhmpL33@nospam.net> wrote:
Found the problem !!!! Found it in a Service Advisory update 1989!
Engine is a 2.8L, that Ive rebuilt and cammed, etc. etc. etc.
Everything is flat, etc. etc.etc.
There in the small print of the service advisory in a borrowed shop
manual: ...... head bolt threads shall be coated with RTV !!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah OK, the outboard bolts do actually penetrate the water jacket and
the head bolt threads DO need to be sealed .... just like an old
fashioned studded engine. Last two times of extensive engine work with
(head gasket replacement) I just guess I was 'lucky'. I made up a
'jig' and pressurized the outboard bores .... yup, they are directely
connected through to the cooling loop. After several other previous
gasket replacements (dry) .... I found the friggin problem .... thanks
for all your kind advice - It at least got me looking in the right
direction.
thanks
RichH 2.8L (stretched and tickeled) ..... 86 XJ Cherokee @ 340,000
mi.
<RhmpL33@nospam.net> wrote:
Found the problem !!!! Found it in a Service Advisory update 1989!
Engine is a 2.8L, that Ive rebuilt and cammed, etc. etc. etc.
Everything is flat, etc. etc.etc.
There in the small print of the service advisory in a borrowed shop
manual: ...... head bolt threads shall be coated with RTV !!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah OK, the outboard bolts do actually penetrate the water jacket and
the head bolt threads DO need to be sealed .... just like an old
fashioned studded engine. Last two times of extensive engine work with
(head gasket replacement) I just guess I was 'lucky'. I made up a
'jig' and pressurized the outboard bores .... yup, they are directely
connected through to the cooling loop. After several other previous
gasket replacements (dry) .... I found the friggin problem .... thanks
for all your kind advice - It at least got me looking in the right
direction.
thanks
RichH 2.8L (stretched and tickeled) ..... 86 XJ Cherokee @ 340,000
mi.