Re: guess harmonic balancers don't last that long.
 

For the time it takes to do the job right, pull the rad and use the proper
puller. A little trick to get the centre bolt loose, put a Johnson bar (
long 1/2" drive breaker bar in case you don't call them Johnson bars where
you come from) with a shallow socket on the bolt. Turn it until it's wedged
against the ground opposite to engine rotation. Now go in and hit the
starter with the key a couple of times. Guaranteed to break loose. Tighten
it with the bar or ideally and impact wrench with the trans in gear for a
standard, for an auto with a large screwdriver or prybar in the ring gear
teeth wherever you can get at it. We actually just used the impact gun.
Steve
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:xgt2c.38118$1k.27851@okepread01...
> Will Honea did pass the time by typing:
>
> > On the XJ/MJ I was able to swap it out from the top. I used a $8-10
> > universal puller from Harbor Freight but it's tight enough on those
> > models that you're probably going to loose a little skin of your
> > knuckles as they get friendly with the radiator when you work with the
> > puller.
>
> just got back from Steve's Tools (our local version of HF) measured
> the puller and it's center bolt/screw. It is about 1" longer than
> the distance between the balancer and the radiator. ZJs don't have
> squat for room in there. Almost wish I had the old Chevy back.
> Does that long center screw slide down into the crank? If so it might
> just fit.
>
> > One big problem: you will probably need some sort of a bar to
> > bolt onto the damper so that you can jam that against the frame while
> > you loosen/torque the bolt that holds it onto the crank. I couldn't
> > get the thing to hold well enough with the transmission in gear to
> > break it free.
>
> Yea.. and with an auto trany like mine it won't hold it anyway. :/
> My plan was to use an air wrench on it. Usually that will break things
> loose. Speaking of breaking loose.. is that a left or right handed
thread?
> Amazing how easier it is if your turning it the proper way. :]
>
> > One of my manuals says you can jam a screw drive or
> > pry bar against 2 bolts in the puller holes - on the three I remember
> > doing, that just twisted the bolts up and was totally a waste of time.
>
> Hmm.. This is looking more and more like a dealership job. Gonna find
> out how much that costs Monday. Might not be worth my time and effort
> if it's gonna be a real pain. (then again that means it will also be
> expensive) :/ We will see where my pain threshold is.
>
> --
> DougW
> Jeep 1, Wallet 0
>
>

Re: guess harmonic balancers don't last that long.
 

For the time it takes to do the job right, pull the rad and use the proper
puller. A little trick to get the centre bolt loose, put a Johnson bar (
long 1/2" drive breaker bar in case you don't call them Johnson bars where
you come from) with a shallow socket on the bolt. Turn it until it's wedged
against the ground opposite to engine rotation. Now go in and hit the
starter with the key a couple of times. Guaranteed to break loose. Tighten
it with the bar or ideally and impact wrench with the trans in gear for a
standard, for an auto with a large screwdriver or prybar in the ring gear
teeth wherever you can get at it. We actually just used the impact gun.
Steve
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:xgt2c.38118$1k.27851@okepread01...
> Will Honea did pass the time by typing:
>
> > On the XJ/MJ I was able to swap it out from the top. I used a $8-10
> > universal puller from Harbor Freight but it's tight enough on those
> > models that you're probably going to loose a little skin of your
> > knuckles as they get friendly with the radiator when you work with the
> > puller.
>
> just got back from Steve's Tools (our local version of HF) measured
> the puller and it's center bolt/screw. It is about 1" longer than
> the distance between the balancer and the radiator. ZJs don't have
> squat for room in there. Almost wish I had the old Chevy back.
> Does that long center screw slide down into the crank? If so it might
> just fit.
>
> > One big problem: you will probably need some sort of a bar to
> > bolt onto the damper so that you can jam that against the frame while
> > you loosen/torque the bolt that holds it onto the crank. I couldn't
> > get the thing to hold well enough with the transmission in gear to
> > break it free.
>
> Yea.. and with an auto trany like mine it won't hold it anyway. :/
> My plan was to use an air wrench on it. Usually that will break things
> loose. Speaking of breaking loose.. is that a left or right handed
thread?
> Amazing how easier it is if your turning it the proper way. :]
>
> > One of my manuals says you can jam a screw drive or
> > pry bar against 2 bolts in the puller holes - on the three I remember
> > doing, that just twisted the bolts up and was totally a waste of time.
>
> Hmm.. This is looking more and more like a dealership job. Gonna find
> out how much that costs Monday. Might not be worth my time and effort
> if it's gonna be a real pain. (then again that means it will also be
> expensive) :/ We will see where my pain threshold is.
>
> --
> DougW
> Jeep 1, Wallet 0
>
>

Re: guess harmonic balancers don't last that long.
 

Steve G did pass the time by typing:
> For the time it takes to do the job right, pull the rad and use the proper
> puller.

And from what I've read, the proper installer as well. Several sites
out there caution against using a mallet because of possible damage to
the thrust bearing. Simple tool, I can borrow it from AutoZone with the
puller. (they have both)

> A little trick to get the centre bolt loose, put a Johnson bar (
> long 1/2" drive breaker bar in case you don't call them Johnson bars where
> you come from) with a shallow socket on the bolt.

We call them a "Cheater bar."

> Turn it until it's wedged
> against the ground opposite to engine rotation. Now go in and hit the
> starter with the key a couple of times. Guaranteed to break loose.

Will keep that trick in mind. Plan to give it a try with just my short
bar and maby the mallet, then air ratchet. There isn't any rust on the
bolt or surfaces, it might (knock on wood) come out with minimal fuss.

--
DougW

Re: guess harmonic balancers don't last that long.
 

Steve G did pass the time by typing:
> For the time it takes to do the job right, pull the rad and use the proper
> puller.

And from what I've read, the proper installer as well. Several sites
out there caution against using a mallet because of possible damage to
the thrust bearing. Simple tool, I can borrow it from AutoZone with the
puller. (they have both)

> A little trick to get the centre bolt loose, put a Johnson bar (
> long 1/2" drive breaker bar in case you don't call them Johnson bars where
> you come from) with a shallow socket on the bolt.

We call them a "Cheater bar."

> Turn it until it's wedged
> against the ground opposite to engine rotation. Now go in and hit the
> starter with the key a couple of times. Guaranteed to break loose.

Will keep that trick in mind. Plan to give it a try with just my short
bar and maby the mallet, then air ratchet. There isn't any rust on the
bolt or surfaces, it might (knock on wood) come out with minimal fuss.

--
DougW

Re: guess harmonic balancers don't last that long.
 

Steve G did pass the time by typing:
> For the time it takes to do the job right, pull the rad and use the proper
> puller.

And from what I've read, the proper installer as well. Several sites
out there caution against using a mallet because of possible damage to
the thrust bearing. Simple tool, I can borrow it from AutoZone with the
puller. (they have both)

> A little trick to get the centre bolt loose, put a Johnson bar (
> long 1/2" drive breaker bar in case you don't call them Johnson bars where
> you come from) with a shallow socket on the bolt.

We call them a "Cheater bar."

> Turn it until it's wedged
> against the ground opposite to engine rotation. Now go in and hit the
> starter with the key a couple of times. Guaranteed to break loose.

Will keep that trick in mind. Plan to give it a try with just my short
bar and maby the mallet, then air ratchet. There isn't any rust on the
bolt or surfaces, it might (knock on wood) come out with minimal fuss.

--
DougW

Re: guess harmonic balancers don't last that long.
 

Cherokee-LTD did pass the time by typing:
> Hey Doug,
>
> FWIW mine came off rather easy but that is probably because the engine was
> out of the XJ. Had I been tight for space working in a snowstorm you can bet
> your ass it would have been seized on.

Heh. That's usually the way things work. The service book says it can be
gotten from the top after removing the belt and fan shroud. I dunno, it's
quite tight to the fan. Time will tell.

Either way it will be added to the website.

> I'm not so sure I'd sweat that HB right now - I've seen a lot worse! You've
> discovered wear, keep an eye on it - you may not need to change until your
> convenience... like when you have to do a water pump, rad, t-chain etc.

It will be fixed next weekend. Just a habit of mine not to let things go
too long. The longer you put off fixing something the more likely it will
bite you in the arse.

--
DougW

Re: guess harmonic balancers don't last that long.
 

Cherokee-LTD did pass the time by typing:
> Hey Doug,
>
> FWIW mine came off rather easy but that is probably because the engine was
> out of the XJ. Had I been tight for space working in a snowstorm you can bet
> your ass it would have been seized on.

Heh. That's usually the way things work. The service book says it can be
gotten from the top after removing the belt and fan shroud. I dunno, it's
quite tight to the fan. Time will tell.

Either way it will be added to the website.

> I'm not so sure I'd sweat that HB right now - I've seen a lot worse! You've
> discovered wear, keep an eye on it - you may not need to change until your
> convenience... like when you have to do a water pump, rad, t-chain etc.

It will be fixed next weekend. Just a habit of mine not to let things go
too long. The longer you put off fixing something the more likely it will
bite you in the arse.

--
DougW

Re: guess harmonic balancers don't last that long.
 

Cherokee-LTD did pass the time by typing:
> Hey Doug,
>
> FWIW mine came off rather easy but that is probably because the engine was
> out of the XJ. Had I been tight for space working in a snowstorm you can bet
> your ass it would have been seized on.

Heh. That's usually the way things work. The service book says it can be
gotten from the top after removing the belt and fan shroud. I dunno, it's
quite tight to the fan. Time will tell.

Either way it will be added to the website.

> I'm not so sure I'd sweat that HB right now - I've seen a lot worse! You've
> discovered wear, keep an eye on it - you may not need to change until your
> convenience... like when you have to do a water pump, rad, t-chain etc.

It will be fixed next weekend. Just a habit of mine not to let things go
too long. The longer you put off fixing something the more likely it will
bite you in the arse.

--
DougW

Re: guess harmonic balancers don't last that long.
 

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:37:06 UTC "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote:

> Will Honea did pass the time by typing:
>
> > On the XJ/MJ I was able to swap it out from the top. I used a $8-10
> > universal puller from Harbor Freight but it's tight enough on those
> > models that you're probably going to loose a little skin of your
> > knuckles as they get friendly with the radiator when you work with the
> > puller.
>
> just got back from Steve's Tools (our local version of HF) measured
> the puller and it's center bolt/screw. It is about 1" longer than
> the distance between the balancer and the radiator. ZJs don't have
> squat for room in there. Almost wish I had the old Chevy back.
> Does that long center screw slide down into the crank? If so it might
> just fit.

I don't know where you measured - the bolt comes out and don't forget
to take that big flat washer that's under the bolt out BEFORE you try
the puller! Once the bolt is out, there is a centering hole in the
end of the crank that the puller sits into. Mine is fairly long and
the 88 MJ is set up so that the puller screw rides just uder the
radiator. That means you are turning the puller with your knuckles
right next to the radiator - and that sucker can bite.

I drilled a couple of holes in a 3 foot piece of 5/16 bar stock I had
laying around and bolted that to 2 of the smaller (about 1/4 inch, but
metric 6-8 mm?) holes in the middle part of the damper. That rotated
over against the frame and held things nice and solid while I used a
big breaker bar and socket on the bolt. Same for touquing it back.
If you do use the puiller, be careful with the bolts that you use to
attach it to the damper. Mine were drilled all the way thru and if
the bolts are too long you can punch them into the timing cover.
That's a standard RH bolt, BTW. Also, it's a lot simpler to see what
you need to do if you parctice the setup on the new one to get an idea
of where all the holes are. DON'T FORGET THAT WASHER - someone here
worked for a considerable time before he got around to taking that
sucker out and was amazed how easy it was after that <g>.

Given a choice, I would have pulled the radiator and used an impact
wrench but every one I did had a/c so I would have had a skid plate
and the condensor to pull in addition to the radiator - easiler to
take a little time and make the holding tool.

>
> > One big problem: you will probably need some sort of a bar to
> > bolt onto the damper so that you can jam that against the frame while
> > you loosen/torque the bolt that holds it onto the crank. I couldn't
> > get the thing to hold well enough with the transmission in gear to
> > break it free.
>
> Yea.. and with an auto trany like mine it won't hold it anyway. :/
> My plan was to use an air wrench on it. Usually that will break things
> loose. Speaking of breaking loose.. is that a left or right handed thread?
> Amazing how easier it is if your turning it the proper way. :]
>
> > One of my manuals says you can jam a screw drive or
> > pry bar against 2 bolts in the puller holes - on the three I remember
> > doing, that just twisted the bolts up and was totally a waste of time.
>
> Hmm.. This is looking more and more like a dealership job. Gonna find
> out how much that costs Monday. Might not be worth my time and effort
> if it's gonna be a real pain. (then again that means it will also be
> expensive) :/ We will see where my pain threshold is.
>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: guess harmonic balancers don't last that long.
 

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:37:06 UTC "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote:

> Will Honea did pass the time by typing:
>
> > On the XJ/MJ I was able to swap it out from the top. I used a $8-10
> > universal puller from Harbor Freight but it's tight enough on those
> > models that you're probably going to loose a little skin of your
> > knuckles as they get friendly with the radiator when you work with the
> > puller.
>
> just got back from Steve's Tools (our local version of HF) measured
> the puller and it's center bolt/screw. It is about 1" longer than
> the distance between the balancer and the radiator. ZJs don't have
> squat for room in there. Almost wish I had the old Chevy back.
> Does that long center screw slide down into the crank? If so it might
> just fit.

I don't know where you measured - the bolt comes out and don't forget
to take that big flat washer that's under the bolt out BEFORE you try
the puller! Once the bolt is out, there is a centering hole in the
end of the crank that the puller sits into. Mine is fairly long and
the 88 MJ is set up so that the puller screw rides just uder the
radiator. That means you are turning the puller with your knuckles
right next to the radiator - and that sucker can bite.

I drilled a couple of holes in a 3 foot piece of 5/16 bar stock I had
laying around and bolted that to 2 of the smaller (about 1/4 inch, but
metric 6-8 mm?) holes in the middle part of the damper. That rotated
over against the frame and held things nice and solid while I used a
big breaker bar and socket on the bolt. Same for touquing it back.
If you do use the puiller, be careful with the bolts that you use to
attach it to the damper. Mine were drilled all the way thru and if
the bolts are too long you can punch them into the timing cover.
That's a standard RH bolt, BTW. Also, it's a lot simpler to see what
you need to do if you parctice the setup on the new one to get an idea
of where all the holes are. DON'T FORGET THAT WASHER - someone here
worked for a considerable time before he got around to taking that
sucker out and was amazed how easy it was after that <g>.

Given a choice, I would have pulled the radiator and used an impact
wrench but every one I did had a/c so I would have had a skid plate
and the condensor to pull in addition to the radiator - easiler to
take a little time and make the holding tool.

>
> > One big problem: you will probably need some sort of a bar to
> > bolt onto the damper so that you can jam that against the frame while
> > you loosen/torque the bolt that holds it onto the crank. I couldn't
> > get the thing to hold well enough with the transmission in gear to
> > break it free.
>
> Yea.. and with an auto trany like mine it won't hold it anyway. :/
> My plan was to use an air wrench on it. Usually that will break things
> loose. Speaking of breaking loose.. is that a left or right handed thread?
> Amazing how easier it is if your turning it the proper way. :]
>
> > One of my manuals says you can jam a screw drive or
> > pry bar against 2 bolts in the puller holes - on the three I remember
> > doing, that just twisted the bolts up and was totally a waste of time.
>
> Hmm.. This is looking more and more like a dealership job. Gonna find
> out how much that costs Monday. Might not be worth my time and effort
> if it's gonna be a real pain. (then again that means it will also be
> expensive) :/ We will see where my pain threshold is.
>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>