L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Hi Chris,
The stock cars are running that hot, not because they want too, but
the running at near full throttle just generates heat, more heat than
they can control, with their stock body design restrictions and the
spoiler trying make the car weight three times their weight in down
force. Making nothing extra for the driver, leaving him with just a hose
vented to the outside to cool himself. I would be very surprised if any
race car ran a thermostat, just another restrictor plate:
http://www.behrents.com/Merchant2/4....40&Screen=PROD
If you had a Corvette LT-1 you'd want an 160 degree thermostat:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...=Google+Search
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

c wrote:
>
> Mike, the two reasons that engines are run as cool as possible are: 1. that
> the air will be somewhat denser going into the engine and 2. the clearances
> in the engine are a bit higher when the engine is cold, theoretically
> reducing friction. In modern times however, the racing engine people have
> changed the bearing and piston clearances so that they are running at the
> proper clearances when at operating temperature. Look at it this way, if the
> cold engine was better, NASCAR teams would be chilling the engines as much
> as possible. They normally run their engines in the 200-220F range for the
> best balance of power and combustion efficiency. Running an engine too cold
> will result in the "gas wash" effect in a street engine because of too much
> unburned gas. It just doesn't atomize and mix with the air as efficiently
> when it is too cold.
>
> Chris

Cherokee-LTD

"Shaggie" <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6rt9u$f8k1h$2@ID-163201.news.uni-berlin.de...
: Shaggie <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in news:c6rpnv$ff063$1@ID-
: 163201.news.uni-berlin.de:
:
: >
: >>:
: >> Bring a lower t-stat and some tools with you as well.
: >> -Brian
:
: Brian, why did you say that? Mike says the thermostat only is relevant
: during the warmup period of the engine.
:
: --

I respectfully disagree with Mike. The t-stat is a metering valve just like
adjusting the tap on your garden hose. A cooler t-stat slows the flow and
allows your rad enough time to cool it's capacity.

Your original post didn't mention your operating temperature - just that it
was hotter than before. My recommendation for a cooler t-stat addresses a
faulty t-stat (sticking open) and compensating for the changes you made for
your fuel delivery system.... all for about $5.00.

If you're running 210, you're fine. If you see it creeping above 225 keep a
close eye on it. If you see prolonged 230+ you may have 'issues'.

-Brian

Cherokee-LTD

"Shaggie" <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6rt9u$f8k1h$2@ID-163201.news.uni-berlin.de...
: Shaggie <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in news:c6rpnv$ff063$1@ID-
: 163201.news.uni-berlin.de:
:
: >
: >>:
: >> Bring a lower t-stat and some tools with you as well.
: >> -Brian
:
: Brian, why did you say that? Mike says the thermostat only is relevant
: during the warmup period of the engine.
:
: --

I respectfully disagree with Mike. The t-stat is a metering valve just like
adjusting the tap on your garden hose. A cooler t-stat slows the flow and
allows your rad enough time to cool it's capacity.

Your original post didn't mention your operating temperature - just that it
was hotter than before. My recommendation for a cooler t-stat addresses a
faulty t-stat (sticking open) and compensating for the changes you made for
your fuel delivery system.... all for about $5.00.

If you're running 210, you're fine. If you see it creeping above 225 keep a
close eye on it. If you see prolonged 230+ you may have 'issues'.

-Brian

Cherokee-LTD

"Shaggie" <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6rt9u$f8k1h$2@ID-163201.news.uni-berlin.de...
: Shaggie <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in news:c6rpnv$ff063$1@ID-
: 163201.news.uni-berlin.de:
:
: >
: >>:
: >> Bring a lower t-stat and some tools with you as well.
: >> -Brian
:
: Brian, why did you say that? Mike says the thermostat only is relevant
: during the warmup period of the engine.
:
: --

I respectfully disagree with Mike. The t-stat is a metering valve just like
adjusting the tap on your garden hose. A cooler t-stat slows the flow and
allows your rad enough time to cool it's capacity.

Your original post didn't mention your operating temperature - just that it
was hotter than before. My recommendation for a cooler t-stat addresses a
faulty t-stat (sticking open) and compensating for the changes you made for
your fuel delivery system.... all for about $5.00.

If you're running 210, you're fine. If you see it creeping above 225 keep a
close eye on it. If you see prolonged 230+ you may have 'issues'.

-Brian

Cherokee-LTD

"Shaggie" <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6rt9u$f8k1h$2@ID-163201.news.uni-berlin.de...
: Shaggie <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in news:c6rpnv$ff063$1@ID-
: 163201.news.uni-berlin.de:
:
: >
: >>:
: >> Bring a lower t-stat and some tools with you as well.
: >> -Brian
:
: Brian, why did you say that? Mike says the thermostat only is relevant
: during the warmup period of the engine.
:
: --

I respectfully disagree with Mike. The t-stat is a metering valve just like
adjusting the tap on your garden hose. A cooler t-stat slows the flow and
allows your rad enough time to cool it's capacity.

Your original post didn't mention your operating temperature - just that it
was hotter than before. My recommendation for a cooler t-stat addresses a
faulty t-stat (sticking open) and compensating for the changes you made for
your fuel delivery system.... all for about $5.00.

If you're running 210, you're fine. If you see it creeping above 225 keep a
close eye on it. If you see prolonged 230+ you may have 'issues'.

-Brian

Mike Romain

bllsht wrote:
>
> In message <c6rt9u$f8k1h$2@ID-163201.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Shaggie" wrote:
>
> >Shaggie <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in news:c6rpnv$ff063$1@ID-
> >163201.news.uni-berlin.de:
> >
> >>
> >>>:
> >>> Bring a lower t-stat and some tools with you as well.
> >>> -Brian
> >
> >Brian, why did you say that? Mike says the thermostat only is relevant
> >during the warmup period of the engine.
>
> The fact is, in an otherwise properly operating cooling system, a cooler
> thermostat will cause an engine to run cooler
>
> I've seen many vehicles fail smog tests because the thermostat has been replaced
> with a cooler one and the engine doesn't heat up enough for proper combustion
> and emission controls operation.

I have seen that happen under light load conditions. That is one reason
folks say to take the vehicle on a highway run just before emissions
testing. The full load gets the engine temperature up out of the
'effect' range of the t-stat.

When off roading, the t-stat has no effect if it is working right.

I have overheated my XJ twice while running for extended periods in 4
low in hot weather. (enough for the idiot light to come on, although it
didn't boil over)

Once it was with the original radiator, the second time was with a new
radiator. Once with a worn out fan clutch, the second time with a new
one. I am thinking I need the extra electric fan the AC equipped XJ's
have.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Mike Romain

bllsht wrote:
>
> In message <c6rt9u$f8k1h$2@ID-163201.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Shaggie" wrote:
>
> >Shaggie <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in news:c6rpnv$ff063$1@ID-
> >163201.news.uni-berlin.de:
> >
> >>
> >>>:
> >>> Bring a lower t-stat and some tools with you as well.
> >>> -Brian
> >
> >Brian, why did you say that? Mike says the thermostat only is relevant
> >during the warmup period of the engine.
>
> The fact is, in an otherwise properly operating cooling system, a cooler
> thermostat will cause an engine to run cooler
>
> I've seen many vehicles fail smog tests because the thermostat has been replaced
> with a cooler one and the engine doesn't heat up enough for proper combustion
> and emission controls operation.

I have seen that happen under light load conditions. That is one reason
folks say to take the vehicle on a highway run just before emissions
testing. The full load gets the engine temperature up out of the
'effect' range of the t-stat.

When off roading, the t-stat has no effect if it is working right.

I have overheated my XJ twice while running for extended periods in 4
low in hot weather. (enough for the idiot light to come on, although it
didn't boil over)

Once it was with the original radiator, the second time was with a new
radiator. Once with a worn out fan clutch, the second time with a new
one. I am thinking I need the extra electric fan the AC equipped XJ's
have.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Mike Romain

bllsht wrote:
>
> In message <c6rt9u$f8k1h$2@ID-163201.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Shaggie" wrote:
>
> >Shaggie <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in news:c6rpnv$ff063$1@ID-
> >163201.news.uni-berlin.de:
> >
> >>
> >>>:
> >>> Bring a lower t-stat and some tools with you as well.
> >>> -Brian
> >
> >Brian, why did you say that? Mike says the thermostat only is relevant
> >during the warmup period of the engine.
>
> The fact is, in an otherwise properly operating cooling system, a cooler
> thermostat will cause an engine to run cooler
>
> I've seen many vehicles fail smog tests because the thermostat has been replaced
> with a cooler one and the engine doesn't heat up enough for proper combustion
> and emission controls operation.

I have seen that happen under light load conditions. That is one reason
folks say to take the vehicle on a highway run just before emissions
testing. The full load gets the engine temperature up out of the
'effect' range of the t-stat.

When off roading, the t-stat has no effect if it is working right.

I have overheated my XJ twice while running for extended periods in 4
low in hot weather. (enough for the idiot light to come on, although it
didn't boil over)

Once it was with the original radiator, the second time was with a new
radiator. Once with a worn out fan clutch, the second time with a new
one. I am thinking I need the extra electric fan the AC equipped XJ's
have.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Mike Romain

bllsht wrote:
>
> In message <c6rt9u$f8k1h$2@ID-163201.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Shaggie" wrote:
>
> >Shaggie <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in news:c6rpnv$ff063$1@ID-
> >163201.news.uni-berlin.de:
> >
> >>
> >>>:
> >>> Bring a lower t-stat and some tools with you as well.
> >>> -Brian
> >
> >Brian, why did you say that? Mike says the thermostat only is relevant
> >during the warmup period of the engine.
>
> The fact is, in an otherwise properly operating cooling system, a cooler
> thermostat will cause an engine to run cooler
>
> I've seen many vehicles fail smog tests because the thermostat has been replaced
> with a cooler one and the engine doesn't heat up enough for proper combustion
> and emission controls operation.

I have seen that happen under light load conditions. That is one reason
folks say to take the vehicle on a highway run just before emissions
testing. The full load gets the engine temperature up out of the
'effect' range of the t-stat.

When off roading, the t-stat has no effect if it is working right.

I have overheated my XJ twice while running for extended periods in 4
low in hot weather. (enough for the idiot light to come on, although it
didn't boil over)

Once it was with the original radiator, the second time was with a new
radiator. Once with a worn out fan clutch, the second time with a new
one. I am thinking I need the extra electric fan the AC equipped XJ's
have.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Mike Romain

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> "Shaggie" <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c6rt9u$f8k1h$2@ID-163201.news.uni-berlin.de...
> : Shaggie <travist34@snotmail.com> wrote in news:c6rpnv$ff063$1@ID-
> : 163201.news.uni-berlin.de:
> :
> : >
> : >>:
> : >> Bring a lower t-stat and some tools with you as well.
> : >> -Brian
> :
> : Brian, why did you say that? Mike says the thermostat only is relevant
> : during the warmup period of the engine.
> :
> : --
>
> I respectfully disagree with Mike. The t-stat is a metering valve just like
> adjusting the tap on your garden hose. A cooler t-stat slows the flow and
> allows your rad enough time to cool it's capacity.
>
> Your original post didn't mention your operating temperature - just that it
> was hotter than before. My recommendation for a cooler t-stat addresses a
> faulty t-stat (sticking open) and compensating for the changes you made for
> your fuel delivery system.... all for about $5.00.
>
> If you're running 210, you're fine. If you see it creeping above 225 keep a
> close eye on it. If you see prolonged 230+ you may have 'issues'.
>
> -Brian

A 160 t-stat and a 195 t-stat are physically the same size. When fully
open they both allow the same flow.

When the engine internally reaches 160, the first one opens. When the
engine internally hits 195, the second one opens.

Once the engine has passed this 160 or 195 degree mark, the thermostat
never budges from wide open.

Take a TJ for instance. No matter what t-stat you put in it, it 'will'
run at 210 degrees. It just warms up faster with the hotter t-stat.

This means in the winter when the fan can supercool the rad, you will
only see 160 degree water in the heater core and will freeze your butt
off with the cold t-stat. With the 195, you will have heat inside the
vehicle.

Thermostats are only for the low temperature control, not for top end
heat.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's