That's could be why you knocked the cylinders out of an engine. Nitrous
needs the timing to be retarded or the cylinder pressures go through the
roof. Most nitrous systems will retard the timing anywhere from 2 to over 12
degrees depending on how much nitrous you are using, as well as octane,
compression ratio, etc. Also to prevent detonation, colder plugs are
required, sometimes up to 4 steps. Here is a good page for this info:

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechSer.../NOSTech4.html

Chris


"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:407D9233.DD3B1806@***.net...
> I've never changed my timing it's locked at thirty eight degrees
> total. Ten and half to one.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> c wrote:
> >
> > How much does your timing retard when you push the go button? And what
> > compression ratio are you running in the nitrous engine again?
> >
> > Chris

 

Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40, not
58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine. His
pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
like that?

Thanks,
Bill

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> I won't disagree.
>
> Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
>
> I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
>
> I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last as
> long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn itself
> means a different sized friction area.
>
> Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in 100%
> better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is minimal
> bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it sitting
> in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
>
> Mike
>
> c wrote:
> >
> > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear with
me.
> > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal from
you
> > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> >
> > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to begin
> > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down to
> > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't cut
it
> > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
this
> > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
heads
> > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they are
all
> > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in saying
that
> > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows what,
but
> > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug in
> > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
passages
> > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible by
a
> > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy to
get
> > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing we
> > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into how
bad
> > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them. My
> > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
prepped.
> > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas seem
to
> > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > it is a lot tougher.
> >
> > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
measured
> > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it at
> > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
engine
> > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough, I'd
> > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed with
was
> > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We had
a
> > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons interchange
> > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> >
> > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally. No
> > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > (damn inflation).
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > >
> > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > >
> > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be somewhere
> > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > >
> > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > >
> > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used 4.0
> > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful, has
> > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > >
> > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take
it
> > to a
> > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > configured
> > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > >
> > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they
do
> > not
> > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore
to
> > .060
> > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > >
> > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the
> > engine
> > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
with
> > the
> > > > 4.0L head
> > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they
> > don't
> > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > >
> > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > this
> > > > question?
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life of
the
> > > > engine quicker?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,

 

Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40, not
58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine. His
pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
like that?

Thanks,
Bill

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> I won't disagree.
>
> Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
>
> I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
>
> I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last as
> long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn itself
> means a different sized friction area.
>
> Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in 100%
> better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is minimal
> bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it sitting
> in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
>
> Mike
>
> c wrote:
> >
> > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear with
me.
> > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal from
you
> > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> >
> > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to begin
> > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down to
> > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't cut
it
> > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
this
> > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
heads
> > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they are
all
> > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in saying
that
> > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows what,
but
> > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug in
> > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
passages
> > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible by
a
> > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy to
get
> > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing we
> > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into how
bad
> > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them. My
> > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
prepped.
> > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas seem
to
> > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > it is a lot tougher.
> >
> > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
measured
> > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it at
> > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
engine
> > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough, I'd
> > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed with
was
> > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We had
a
> > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons interchange
> > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> >
> > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally. No
> > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > (damn inflation).
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > >
> > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > >
> > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be somewhere
> > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > >
> > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > >
> > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used 4.0
> > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful, has
> > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > >
> > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take
it
> > to a
> > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > configured
> > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > >
> > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they
do
> > not
> > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore
to
> > .060
> > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > >
> > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the
> > engine
> > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
with
> > the
> > > > 4.0L head
> > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they
> > don't
> > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > >
> > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > this
> > > > question?
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life of
the
> > > > engine quicker?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,

 

Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40, not
58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine. His
pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
like that?

Thanks,
Bill

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> I won't disagree.
>
> Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
>
> I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
>
> I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last as
> long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn itself
> means a different sized friction area.
>
> Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in 100%
> better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is minimal
> bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it sitting
> in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
>
> Mike
>
> c wrote:
> >
> > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear with
me.
> > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal from
you
> > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> >
> > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to begin
> > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down to
> > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't cut
it
> > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
this
> > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
heads
> > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they are
all
> > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in saying
that
> > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows what,
but
> > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug in
> > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
passages
> > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible by
a
> > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy to
get
> > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing we
> > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into how
bad
> > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them. My
> > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
prepped.
> > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas seem
to
> > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > it is a lot tougher.
> >
> > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
measured
> > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it at
> > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
engine
> > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough, I'd
> > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed with
was
> > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We had
a
> > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons interchange
> > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> >
> > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally. No
> > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > (damn inflation).
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > >
> > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > >
> > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be somewhere
> > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > >
> > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > >
> > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used 4.0
> > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful, has
> > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > >
> > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take
it
> > to a
> > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > configured
> > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > >
> > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they
do
> > not
> > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore
to
> > .060
> > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > >
> > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the
> > engine
> > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
with
> > the
> > > > 4.0L head
> > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they
> > don't
> > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > >
> > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > this
> > > > question?
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life of
the
> > > > engine quicker?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,

 

Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40, not
58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine. His
pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
like that?

Thanks,
Bill

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> I won't disagree.
>
> Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
>
> I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
>
> I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last as
> long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn itself
> means a different sized friction area.
>
> Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in 100%
> better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is minimal
> bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it sitting
> in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
>
> Mike
>
> c wrote:
> >
> > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear with
me.
> > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal from
you
> > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> >
> > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to begin
> > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down to
> > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't cut
it
> > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
this
> > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
heads
> > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they are
all
> > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in saying
that
> > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows what,
but
> > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug in
> > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
passages
> > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible by
a
> > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy to
get
> > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing we
> > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into how
bad
> > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them. My
> > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
prepped.
> > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas seem
to
> > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > it is a lot tougher.
> >
> > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
measured
> > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it at
> > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
engine
> > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough, I'd
> > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed with
was
> > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We had
a
> > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons interchange
> > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> >
> > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally. No
> > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > (damn inflation).
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > >
> > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > >
> > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be somewhere
> > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > >
> > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > >
> > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used 4.0
> > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful, has
> > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > >
> > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take
it
> > to a
> > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > configured
> > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > >
> > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they
do
> > not
> > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore
to
> > .060
> > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > >
> > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the
> > engine
> > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
with
> > the
> > > > 4.0L head
> > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they
> > don't
> > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > >
> > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > this
> > > > question?
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life of
the
> > > > engine quicker?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,

 

Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still kicking
myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for the
cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
will be part of it.

I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert Bills
and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.

So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for 2200.00
out the door including a new clutch.

If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I get so
I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't destroy
this new rebuild.

I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help and I
am learning.


Thanks,

Bill




"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear with
me.
> I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal from
you
> and I respect your opinions and advice.
>
> If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to begin
> with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block down
to
> the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't cut it
> obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
this
> way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
heads
> these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they are
all
> effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in saying
that
> there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows what,
but
> a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage plug
in
> the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
passages
> are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible by a
> brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy to
get
> these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them if
> the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing we
> actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then clean
> them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to keep
> the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into how
bad
> the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them. My
> point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
prepped.
> Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending on
> the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas seem
to
> have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some areas
> it is a lot tougher.
>
> If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is time
> for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
measured
> or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it at
> .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
engine
> builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly where,
> so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough, I'd
> gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now and
> would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed with
was
> a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We had a
> lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons interchange
> with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made for
> the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
>
> BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for someone.
> Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally. No
> matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3 cents
> (damn inflation).
>
> Chris
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> >
> > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of lubrication,
> > so are the polished cylinders.
> >
> > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be somewhere
> > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them are
> > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> >
> > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> >
> > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used 4.0
> > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful, has
> > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat. It
> > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine shops,
> > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > >
> > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take it
> to a
> > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> configured
> > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > >
> > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they do
> not
> > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore
to
> .060
> > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > >
> > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the
> engine
> > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
with
> the
> > > 4.0L head
> > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they
> don't
> > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > >
> > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency with
> this
> > > question?
> > >
> > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life of
the
> > > engine quicker?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
>
>

 

Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still kicking
myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for the
cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
will be part of it.

I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert Bills
and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.

So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for 2200.00
out the door including a new clutch.

If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I get so
I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't destroy
this new rebuild.

I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help and I
am learning.


Thanks,

Bill




"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear with
me.
> I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal from
you
> and I respect your opinions and advice.
>
> If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to begin
> with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block down
to
> the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't cut it
> obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
this
> way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
heads
> these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they are
all
> effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in saying
that
> there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows what,
but
> a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage plug
in
> the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
passages
> are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible by a
> brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy to
get
> these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them if
> the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing we
> actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then clean
> them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to keep
> the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into how
bad
> the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them. My
> point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
prepped.
> Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending on
> the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas seem
to
> have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some areas
> it is a lot tougher.
>
> If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is time
> for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
measured
> or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it at
> .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
engine
> builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly where,
> so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough, I'd
> gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now and
> would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed with
was
> a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We had a
> lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons interchange
> with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made for
> the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
>
> BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for someone.
> Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally. No
> matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3 cents
> (damn inflation).
>
> Chris
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> >
> > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of lubrication,
> > so are the polished cylinders.
> >
> > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be somewhere
> > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them are
> > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> >
> > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> >
> > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used 4.0
> > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful, has
> > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat. It
> > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine shops,
> > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > >
> > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take it
> to a
> > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> configured
> > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > >
> > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they do
> not
> > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore
to
> .060
> > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > >
> > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the
> engine
> > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
with
> the
> > > 4.0L head
> > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they
> don't
> > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > >
> > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency with
> this
> > > question?
> > >
> > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life of
the
> > > engine quicker?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
>
>

 

Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still kicking
myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for the
cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
will be part of it.

I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert Bills
and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.

So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for 2200.00
out the door including a new clutch.

If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I get so
I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't destroy
this new rebuild.

I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help and I
am learning.


Thanks,

Bill




"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear with
me.
> I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal from
you
> and I respect your opinions and advice.
>
> If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to begin
> with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block down
to
> the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't cut it
> obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
this
> way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
heads
> these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they are
all
> effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in saying
that
> there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows what,
but
> a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage plug
in
> the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
passages
> are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible by a
> brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy to
get
> these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them if
> the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing we
> actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then clean
> them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to keep
> the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into how
bad
> the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them. My
> point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
prepped.
> Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending on
> the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas seem
to
> have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some areas
> it is a lot tougher.
>
> If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is time
> for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
measured
> or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it at
> .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
engine
> builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly where,
> so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough, I'd
> gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now and
> would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed with
was
> a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We had a
> lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons interchange
> with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made for
> the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
>
> BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for someone.
> Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally. No
> matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3 cents
> (damn inflation).
>
> Chris
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> >
> > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of lubrication,
> > so are the polished cylinders.
> >
> > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be somewhere
> > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them are
> > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> >
> > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> >
> > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used 4.0
> > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful, has
> > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat. It
> > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine shops,
> > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > >
> > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take it
> to a
> > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> configured
> > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > >
> > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they do
> not
> > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore
to
> .060
> > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > >
> > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the
> engine
> > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
with
> the
> > > 4.0L head
> > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they
> don't
> > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > >
> > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency with
> this
> > > question?
> > >
> > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life of
the
> > > engine quicker?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
>
>

 

Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still kicking
myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for the
cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
will be part of it.

I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert Bills
and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.

So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for 2200.00
out the door including a new clutch.

If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I get so
I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't destroy
this new rebuild.

I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help and I
am learning.


Thanks,

Bill




"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear with
me.
> I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal from
you
> and I respect your opinions and advice.
>
> If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to begin
> with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block down
to
> the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't cut it
> obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
this
> way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
heads
> these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they are
all
> effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in saying
that
> there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows what,
but
> a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage plug
in
> the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
passages
> are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible by a
> brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy to
get
> these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them if
> the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing we
> actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then clean
> them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to keep
> the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into how
bad
> the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them. My
> point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
prepped.
> Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending on
> the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas seem
to
> have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some areas
> it is a lot tougher.
>
> If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is time
> for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
measured
> or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it at
> .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
engine
> builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly where,
> so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough, I'd
> gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now and
> would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed with
was
> a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We had a
> lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons interchange
> with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made for
> the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
>
> BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for someone.
> Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally. No
> matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3 cents
> (damn inflation).
>
> Chris
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> >
> > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of lubrication,
> > so are the polished cylinders.
> >
> > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be somewhere
> > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them are
> > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> >
> > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> >
> > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used 4.0
> > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful, has
> > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat. It
> > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine shops,
> > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > >
> > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take it
> to a
> > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> configured
> > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > >
> > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they do
> not
> > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore
to
> .060
> > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > >
> > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the
> engine
> > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
with
> the
> > > 4.0L head
> > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they
> don't
> > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > >
> > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency with
> this
> > > question?
> > >
> > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life of
the
> > > engine quicker?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
>
>

 

Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.

You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.

Just a guess.

My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
wouldn't do it if it was mine....

I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
boat anchors by folks I trusted.

Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.

I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
would on a good rebuilt....

Mike

William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40, not
> 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine. His
> pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> like that?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > I won't disagree.
> >
> > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> >
> > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> >
> > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last as
> > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn itself
> > means a different sized friction area.
> >
> > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in 100%
> > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is minimal
> > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it sitting
> > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > c wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear with
> me.
> > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal from
> you
> > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > >
> > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to begin
> > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> down to
> > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't cut
> it
> > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
> this
> > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
> heads
> > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they are
> all
> > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in saying
> that
> > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows what,
> but
> > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> plug in
> > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> passages
> > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible by
> a
> > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy to
> get
> > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
> if
> > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing we
> > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> clean
> > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> keep
> > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into how
> bad
> > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them. My
> > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> prepped.
> > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
> on
> > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas seem
> to
> > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> areas
> > > it is a lot tougher.
> > >
> > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
> time
> > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> measured
> > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it at
> > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> engine
> > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> where,
> > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough, I'd
> > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
> and
> > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed with
> was
> > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We had
> a
> > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons interchange
> > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
> for
> > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > >
> > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> someone.
> > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally. No
> > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> cents
> > > (damn inflation).
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > >
> > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> lubrication,
> > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be somewhere
> > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
> are
> > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > >
> > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > >
> > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used 4.0
> > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful, has
> > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
> It
> > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> shops,
> > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > >
> > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take
> it
> > > to a
> > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > > configured
> > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > >
> > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they
> do
> > > not
> > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore
> to
> > > .060
> > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the
> > > engine
> > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
> with
> > > the
> > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they
> > > don't
> > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
> with
> > > this
> > > > > question?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life of
> the
> > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,