Fennidh

I had one rod journal on my crank that was worn pretty
badly. It caused one cylinder to foul badly. When I
disassembled it looked almost identical to yours. I don't
know what your accompanying symptoms are. My machinist had
to send the crank out , but as I understand it, the process
is basically spatter welding, and regrinding to spec, so I
paid about 120 bucks to have the crank built up and evened
out. We chose 40 over instead of 60 over (viable with 258)
on the cylinders, rebuilt and no problem. If the cylinders
check out okay, I'd re-ring over sized, check all
bearings/surfaces first. I wanted to do a rebuild, but you
may WANT a new motor instead. If I could do that part again,
I'd have spent the initial money on a running motor and
rebuilt more as a rec project. I have not followed this too
closely, so I am not aware of all of your observations, I
would think that if the crank end of the rod were causing
the problem, you would hear some sort of slapping noise, but
I do not know what you may observe if it were at the other
end.

Don't sweat the 40 over part, I get smoking deals on motor
parts, and still ended up spending 750 on a total motor
rebuild. plus 200 on elective kinds of crap, That may have
been why people advise you to replace. Whole motors,
"running when pulled" type of things, can be had much
cheaper.





"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c1m7sp$1knmre$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
| I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to
have the injector
| in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly
unlikely to be
| cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw
oil in each
| manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he
opened the
| throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I
looked in the same
| place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a
drop. I felt and ran
| a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back
with any oil stains.
| I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the
throttle body and
| I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was
closer to when I
| started this process and not in the later days. Could be
it got worse in
| the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in
the throttle body.
| He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
|
| Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm
getting ansy about
| pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is
affecting only #2?
| Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he
finds?
|
|
| Thanks,
|
| Bill
|
|
|
| "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
| news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
| > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop
and try to find
| > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices
mean.
| >
| > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
| >
| > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of
quotes....
| >
| > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
| >
| > Mike
| > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail
in '00
| > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
| >
| > William Oliveri wrote:
| > >
| > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on
top of the pistons.
|
|

Steve G

I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading it
there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he did
the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to have
that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have that
problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of the
intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't recall
if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if the
take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often enough
to say that's what they look like.
Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would have
wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil above
the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I think
about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it a
severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the rings
or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would lead
to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when first
starting until oil pressure came up.
I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the looks
of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're so
gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
replaced.
One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
problem.
Steve
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> and at speed.
>
> If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> oil blows into the air filter.
>
> The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> canister purge is dead.
>
> A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> and down and surge slightly.
>
> No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> the cylinders.
>
> When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
>
> I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
>
> How was the gas mileage on that engine?
>
> If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> happens before spending a dime on it.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> >
> > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> >
> > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
throttle
> > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the
oil
> > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
discribe.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > >
> > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > money.
> > >
> > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > >
> > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > >
> > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > >
> > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > >
> > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > >
> > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
(unless
> > > it is gas wash)
> > >
> > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow b
y
> > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in
a
> > > week.
> > >
> > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > >
> > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> > > piston.
> > >
> > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> > > 'gas wash'.
> > >
> > > Good luck Bill!
> > >
> > > I am out of ideas.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > injector
> > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to
be
> > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> > same
> > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt
and
> > ran
> > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> > stains.
> > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle
body
> > and
> > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
when
> > I
> > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
worse
> > in
> > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
throttle
> > body.
> > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > >
> > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
about
> > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting
only
> > #2?
> > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
find
> > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > >
> > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > >
> > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > >
> > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> > pistons.

Steve G

I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading it
there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he did
the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to have
that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have that
problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of the
intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't recall
if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if the
take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often enough
to say that's what they look like.
Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would have
wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil above
the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I think
about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it a
severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the rings
or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would lead
to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when first
starting until oil pressure came up.
I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the looks
of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're so
gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
replaced.
One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
problem.
Steve
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> and at speed.
>
> If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> oil blows into the air filter.
>
> The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> canister purge is dead.
>
> A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> and down and surge slightly.
>
> No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> the cylinders.
>
> When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
>
> I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
>
> How was the gas mileage on that engine?
>
> If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> happens before spending a dime on it.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> >
> > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> >
> > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
throttle
> > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the
oil
> > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
discribe.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > >
> > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > money.
> > >
> > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > >
> > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > >
> > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > >
> > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > >
> > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > >
> > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
(unless
> > > it is gas wash)
> > >
> > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow b
y
> > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in
a
> > > week.
> > >
> > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > >
> > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> > > piston.
> > >
> > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> > > 'gas wash'.
> > >
> > > Good luck Bill!
> > >
> > > I am out of ideas.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > injector
> > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to
be
> > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> > same
> > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt
and
> > ran
> > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> > stains.
> > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle
body
> > and
> > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
when
> > I
> > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
worse
> > in
> > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
throttle
> > body.
> > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > >
> > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
about
> > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting
only
> > #2?
> > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
find
> > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > >
> > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > >
> > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > >
> > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> > pistons.

Steve G

I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading it
there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he did
the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to have
that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have that
problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of the
intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't recall
if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if the
take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often enough
to say that's what they look like.
Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would have
wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil above
the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I think
about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it a
severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the rings
or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would lead
to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when first
starting until oil pressure came up.
I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the looks
of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're so
gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
replaced.
One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
problem.
Steve
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> and at speed.
>
> If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> oil blows into the air filter.
>
> The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> canister purge is dead.
>
> A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> and down and surge slightly.
>
> No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> the cylinders.
>
> When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
>
> I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
>
> How was the gas mileage on that engine?
>
> If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> happens before spending a dime on it.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> >
> > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> >
> > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
throttle
> > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so the
oil
> > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so. You
> > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
discribe.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > >
> > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > money.
> > >
> > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > >
> > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > >
> > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve is
> > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > >
> > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full of
> > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > >
> > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > >
> > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
(unless
> > > it is gas wash)
> > >
> > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow b
y
> > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter in
a
> > > week.
> > >
> > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system. I
> > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange symptoms
> > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > >
> > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes very
> > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry that
> > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into a
> > > piston.
> > >
> > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake or
> > > 'gas wash'.
> > >
> > > Good luck Bill!
> > >
> > > I am out of ideas.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > injector
> > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely to
be
> > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in each
> > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened the
> > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in the
> > same
> > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I felt
and
> > ran
> > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any oil
> > stains.
> > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the throttle
body
> > and
> > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
when
> > I
> > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
worse
> > in
> > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
throttle
> > body.
> > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > >
> > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
about
> > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is affecting
only
> > #2?
> > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
find
> > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > >
> > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > >
> > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > >
> > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of the
> > pistons.

William Oliveri

Thank you for your time on this response Steve, Fennidh, all.

A couple of things. I did not change the injectors around so there was no
results to indicate whether it was the injector or not. Also, The cold leak
down test on #2 was significantly higher than the following warm engine
test. Also, you are correct in that I could not detect any fuel smell in
the oil (I checked again when my nose was better).

Regarding the Rod theory, I had been hearing some noise on a cold engine
which did dissipate as it warmed up. Larie at JeepsRUs also mentioned
hearing a noise in the engine when I was there for DRB diagnostics so this
is a possibility.

Can someone describe what to look for at the Rod/Bearing/Crank level if this
is the problem? Will the bearings be loose when I move it back and forth?

Thanks,

Bill



"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:dMN%b.630182$X%5.347735@pd7tw2no...
> I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
> loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading
it
> there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
> complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he
did
> the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
> first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to
have
> that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have
that
> problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
> cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
> first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
> remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
> would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of
the
> intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't
recall
> if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
> that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if
the
> take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
> My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often
enough
> to say that's what they look like.
> Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would
have
> wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
> cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
> etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil
above
> the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
> gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
> mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I
think
> about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it
a
> severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
> dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
> He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
> Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the
rings
> or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
> valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
> entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would
lead
> to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
> rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
> excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when
first
> starting until oil pressure came up.
> I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the
looks
> of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're
so
> gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
> replaced.
> One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
> second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
> ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
> indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
> problem.
> Steve
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> > The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> > and at speed.
> >
> > If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> > oil blows into the air filter.
> >
> > The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> > PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> > canister purge is dead.
> >
> > A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> > and down and surge slightly.
> >
> > No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> > believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> > bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> > the cylinders.
> >
> > When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> > lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> > or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> > have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
> >
> > I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
> >
> > How was the gas mileage on that engine?
> >
> > If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> > happens before spending a dime on it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> > >
> > > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
> throttle
> > > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so
the
> oil
> > > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so.
You
> > > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
> discribe.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > > >
> > > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > > money.
> > > >
> > > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > > >
> > > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > > >
> > > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve
is
> > > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > > >
> > > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full
of
> > > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > > >
> > > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > > >
> > > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
> (unless
> > > > it is gas wash)
> > > >
> > > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow
b
> y
> > > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter
in
> a
> > > > week.
> > > >
> > > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system.
I
> > > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange
symptoms
> > > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > > >
> > > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes
very
> > > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry
that
> > > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into
a
> > > > piston.
> > > >
> > > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake
or
> > > > 'gas wash'.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck Bill!
> > > >
> > > > I am out of ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > > injector
> > > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely
to
> be
> > > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in
each
> > > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened
the
> > > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in
the
> > > same
> > > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I
felt
> and
> > > ran
> > > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any
oil
> > > stains.
> > > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the
throttle
> body
> > > and
> > > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
> when
> > > I
> > > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
> worse
> > > in
> > > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
> throttle
> > > body.
> > > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
> about
> > > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is
affecting
> only
> > > #2?
> > > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
> find
> > > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of
the
> > > pistons.
>
>

William Oliveri

Thank you for your time on this response Steve, Fennidh, all.

A couple of things. I did not change the injectors around so there was no
results to indicate whether it was the injector or not. Also, The cold leak
down test on #2 was significantly higher than the following warm engine
test. Also, you are correct in that I could not detect any fuel smell in
the oil (I checked again when my nose was better).

Regarding the Rod theory, I had been hearing some noise on a cold engine
which did dissipate as it warmed up. Larie at JeepsRUs also mentioned
hearing a noise in the engine when I was there for DRB diagnostics so this
is a possibility.

Can someone describe what to look for at the Rod/Bearing/Crank level if this
is the problem? Will the bearings be loose when I move it back and forth?

Thanks,

Bill



"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:dMN%b.630182$X%5.347735@pd7tw2no...
> I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
> loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading
it
> there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
> complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he
did
> the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
> first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to
have
> that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have
that
> problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
> cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
> first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
> remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
> would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of
the
> intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't
recall
> if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
> that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if
the
> take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
> My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often
enough
> to say that's what they look like.
> Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would
have
> wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
> cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
> etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil
above
> the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
> gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
> mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I
think
> about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it
a
> severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
> dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
> He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
> Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the
rings
> or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
> valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
> entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would
lead
> to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
> rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
> excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when
first
> starting until oil pressure came up.
> I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the
looks
> of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're
so
> gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
> replaced.
> One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
> second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
> ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
> indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
> problem.
> Steve
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> > The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> > and at speed.
> >
> > If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> > oil blows into the air filter.
> >
> > The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> > PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> > canister purge is dead.
> >
> > A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> > and down and surge slightly.
> >
> > No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> > believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> > bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> > the cylinders.
> >
> > When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> > lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> > or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> > have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
> >
> > I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
> >
> > How was the gas mileage on that engine?
> >
> > If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> > happens before spending a dime on it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> > >
> > > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
> throttle
> > > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so
the
> oil
> > > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so.
You
> > > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
> discribe.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > > >
> > > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > > money.
> > > >
> > > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > > >
> > > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > > >
> > > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve
is
> > > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > > >
> > > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full
of
> > > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > > >
> > > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > > >
> > > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
> (unless
> > > > it is gas wash)
> > > >
> > > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow
b
> y
> > > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter
in
> a
> > > > week.
> > > >
> > > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system.
I
> > > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange
symptoms
> > > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > > >
> > > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes
very
> > > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry
that
> > > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into
a
> > > > piston.
> > > >
> > > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake
or
> > > > 'gas wash'.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck Bill!
> > > >
> > > > I am out of ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > > injector
> > > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely
to
> be
> > > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in
each
> > > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened
the
> > > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in
the
> > > same
> > > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I
felt
> and
> > > ran
> > > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any
oil
> > > stains.
> > > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the
throttle
> body
> > > and
> > > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
> when
> > > I
> > > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
> worse
> > > in
> > > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
> throttle
> > > body.
> > > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
> about
> > > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is
affecting
> only
> > > #2?
> > > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
> find
> > > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of
the
> > > pistons.
>
>

William Oliveri

Thank you for your time on this response Steve, Fennidh, all.

A couple of things. I did not change the injectors around so there was no
results to indicate whether it was the injector or not. Also, The cold leak
down test on #2 was significantly higher than the following warm engine
test. Also, you are correct in that I could not detect any fuel smell in
the oil (I checked again when my nose was better).

Regarding the Rod theory, I had been hearing some noise on a cold engine
which did dissipate as it warmed up. Larie at JeepsRUs also mentioned
hearing a noise in the engine when I was there for DRB diagnostics so this
is a possibility.

Can someone describe what to look for at the Rod/Bearing/Crank level if this
is the problem? Will the bearings be loose when I move it back and forth?

Thanks,

Bill



"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:dMN%b.630182$X%5.347735@pd7tw2no...
> I don't see it. He says a leak down test showed it with 2 to 3 times the
> loss as the other cylinders. Cold cranking compression can be misleading
it
> there's enough oil staying on the walls to seal the cyl. His original
> complaint was the oil consumtion if I remember correctly, that's why he
did
> the valve seals. No mention of a dead cylinder, which would have been his
> first complaint if your gas wash theory was correct. He would have to
have
> that cylinder completely misfiring. I think the only way he could have
that
> problem was if the injector was stuck open, but that would flood the
> cylinder and give him his misfire, which he would have felt and been his
> first complaint. He did also switch the injectors at one point if I
> remember right and the problem should have moved to the next cylinder. I
> would look closely to see if there's a vacuum take off on that runner of
the
> intake that could be introducing oil to that cylinder only. I don't
recall
> if this is an automatic and if so wether it uses a vacuum modulater, but
> that's the kind of thing that could suck oil into that cylinder only if
the
> take off was on the #2 runner of the intake.
> My money's still on the rings on that #2 cyl. I've seen it often
enough
> to say that's what they look like.
> Difficult to do arm chair diagnosis from 3000 miles away. I would
have
> wanted to hear it run, do a dynamic compression test to determine that
> cylinder's contribution at running speed, take a close look at the plugs
> etcc, but from the looks and sounds of things he's got way to much oil
above
> the piston and it's got to be coming from somewhere. Even if it were this
> gas wash, you'd have to have a significant amount of oil to wash into that
> mess. Another thing that doesn't ring right about the "gas wash" as I
think
> about it, is that when you have a severely flooded engine, in this case it
a
> severely flooded cylinder, the fuel will run down the cylinder walls and
> dilute the oil. The oil would smell strongly of fuel.
> He's got a significant amount of oil on the wrong side of the piston.
> Where did it come from? Two possibilities, below the piston past the
rings
> or above the piston through the intake or valve guides. He's eliminated
> valve guides. Process of elimination, look for that other sources of oil
> entering the intake. If it can't be found process of elimination would
lead
> to the piston/rings. Another contributer mentions excessive oil from that
> rod bearing. A good possibility as well, even good rings can't control an
> excess amount, but he should have heard the rod noise, especially when
first
> starting until oil pressure came up.
> I actually don't see much choice at this point anyways. From the
looks
> of the top of that piston even if the root cause wasn't the rings they're
so
> gummed up now that the piston should be removed, cleaned and the rings
> replaced.
> One other thing to look for on the cylinder walls is the start of a
> second ridge below the first. This will sometimes indicate that the top
> ring is broken. Careful though, the absence of a second ridge is not an
> indication of no problem, just the presence of one is an indication of a
> problem.
> Steve
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:403F7731.FAC269E2@sympatico.ca...
> > The charcoal canister purges into the PCV system when the engine is hot
> > and at speed.
> >
> > If the purge valve is blown, it effectively shuts down the PCV system so
> > oil blows into the air filter.
> >
> > The only test I know is to pinch off the line from the canister to the
> > PCV system at idle to see if the idle changes. If the idle changes, the
> > canister purge is dead.
> >
> > A dead canister will also cause an unstable idle speed. It will vary up
> > and down and surge slightly.
> >
> > No, a dead canister will not just get one cylinder 'wet'. I also don't
> > believe a dead canister or blow by of any type can pool oil in the
> > bottom of the intake manifold or in the individual fingers leading to
> > the cylinders.
> >
> > When my air filter filled with oil, it dripped out on the ground. The
> > lip of the intake prevents oil from dripping down the throat of the carb
> > or TB unless the oil in the air filter is deeper than 1/4" or so and you
> > have the air filter that sits on top of the carb or TB.
> >
> > I still think gas and bad injectors man.....
> >
> > How was the gas mileage on that engine?
> >
> > If it was mine, I think I would put the carb back on and see what
> > happens before spending a dime on it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > Is there any way to test a charcoal can detatched from the jeep?
> > >
> > > Would a bad charcoal Can cause the effect like we see in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > When I checked the other items (air filter tube/housing, pcv tube,
> throttle
> > > body) I also looked at the air filter. It was dirty at the bottom but
> > > nothing that bad. Remember, this air filter is sprayed with oil so
the
> oil
> > > I sprayed it with accumulated at the bottom. Like an ounce or so.
You
> > > couldn't even get your hands wet with it. Not to the degree you
> discribe.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:403F5D0B.78D5950F@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Too bad you are so far away.
> > > >
> > > > You need someone that knows engines and isn't just out to take you
> > > > money.
> > > >
> > > > Something really strange is going on.....
> > > >
> > > > What you are now describing is blow by, big blow by.
> > > >
> > > > You cannot have this with 150 psi compression unless the PCV valve
is
> > > > just plain broken or shut off from a bad charcoal canister.
> > > >
> > > > What did your air filter look like? It 'must' have been just full
of
> > > > oil to have the intake with oil pools in it.
> > > >
> > > > If it wasn't full of oil, then you do not have 'blow by'.
> > > >
> > > > You also 'must' have had one big blue cloud following you with the
> > > > amount of oil you describe in the intake, no two ways about it.
> (unless
> > > > it is gas wash)
> > > >
> > > > You are aware that a dead charcoal canister will produce enough blow
b
> y
> > > > to really imitate a blown engine right? It will soak an air filter
in
> a
> > > > week.
> > > >
> > > > I am really almost thinking that someone sold you a dead FI system.
I
> > > > think it was broken and giving them the same fits and strange
symptoms
> > > > you are getting so they unloaded it on you.
> > > >
> > > > Gas wash is very strange if you haven't seen it before. It takes
very
> > > > little gas to wash down the dirt and oil and make a messy slurry
that
> > > > almost looks like oil. This can pool in an intake manifold or into
a
> > > > piston.
> > > >
> > > > You are describing injectors leaking down and pooling in the intake
or
> > > > 'gas wash'.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck Bill!
> > > >
> > > > I am out of ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took the intake manifold to a perfomance shop today to have the
> > > injector
> > > > > in question tested and the mechanic told me it's highly unlikely
to
> be
> > > > > cylinder wash. He looked at the intake manifold and saw oil in
each
> > > > > manifold "finger" (which I didn't see before) and when he opened
the
> > > > > throttle there was a pool of oil in the there. When I looked in
the
> > > same
> > > > > place when the intake was on the engine I didn't see a drop. I
felt
> and
> > > ran
> > > > > a q-tip inside the pcv valve hose and didn't come back with any
oil
> > > stains.
> > > > > I put my hand inside the filter hose which connects to the
throttle
> body
> > > and
> > > > > I didn't feel any oil there either. Of course, this was closer to
> when
> > > I
> > > > > started this process and not in the later days. Could be it got
> worse
> > > in
> > > > > the end or was pooled in the intake and didn't show up in the
> throttle
> > > body.
> > > > > He told me Blow By was going on and I needed a new engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything else that could be going on as I'm getting ansy
> about
> > > > > pulling this piston. Could there be some effect which is
affecting
> only
> > > #2?
> > > > > Should I have him test #2 injector anyway and see what he finds?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:403E9B6D.FF814819@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I would 'highly' recommend you get a hold of the shop and try to
> find
> > > > > > out exactly what they did to it and what the invoices mean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I saw a 'generic' rebuilt engine quote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They only fix what is messed up on those kind of quotes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Still looks like a gas washed cylinder to me though...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like my pistons are .40 over. There's a 40 on top of
the
> > > pistons.
>
>

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Steve G wrote:
>
> From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over doesn't
> mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at the
> top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate for a
> re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack those
> pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil dripping
> in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> Yourself)world.
> Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are marked.
> Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If they're
> not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it and so
> on for all rods.
> Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to measure
> for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it for
> you and tell you what oversize if any.
> Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as there
> appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good head
> back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and you
> determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your bench
> grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to the
> cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between valve
> and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> back together and you're good to go.
> This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your buying
> level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200. Again, go
> to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul. An
> old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high cost
> of labor and the longevity of engines.
> Steve

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Steve G wrote:
>
> From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over doesn't
> mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at the
> top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate for a
> re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack those
> pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil dripping
> in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> Yourself)world.
> Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are marked.
> Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If they're
> not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it and so
> on for all rods.
> Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to measure
> for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it for
> you and tell you what oversize if any.
> Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as there
> appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good head
> back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and you
> determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your bench
> grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to the
> cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between valve
> and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> back together and you're good to go.
> This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your buying
> level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200. Again, go
> to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul. An
> old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high cost
> of labor and the longevity of engines.
> Steve

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Real Jeeps are tip it on it's side:
http://piction1.awm.gov.au/pls/picti...ps_what=screen
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Steve G wrote:
>
> From the looks of your pictures you're almost there. Forty over doesn't
> mean the engine is scrap. In fact if it's showing very little ridge at the
> top of the cyl and it's been bored out it may be a very good candidate for a
> re-ring. If I was on a tight budget I would crawl under and attack those
> pan bolts and push out that #2 piston. Worst part of the job is lieing
> under there taking it apart and putting it back together with oil dripping
> in your face. Think of it as a rite of induction into the DIY'er (Do It
> Yourself)world.
> Before you take the cap off the rod make sure the cap and rod are marked.
> Usually there is a stamping oof the cyl # on the rod and cap on the same
> side. Cap and rod need to go back exactly as they came apart. If they're
> not stamped and you don't have access to stamping numbers, use a centre
> punch and put 2 punch marks on the cap and 2 on the rod just above it and so
> on for all rods.
> Don't know how you'd use a feeler gauge as suggested above to measure
> for oversize, but once the pistons out any machine shop can measure it for
> you and tell you what oversize if any.
> Don't rering just one cyl. Do them all. With as little ridge as there
> appears to be on those cylinders if you rering that engine, put a good head
> back in you'll get 100,000 miles out of it without problem.
> If I recall correctly, the head you removed has new seals on it and you
> determined no appreciable guide wear. Another budget DIY'er trick is to
> disassemble the head, take all of the valves to the wire wheel on your bench
> grinder and clean them up all shiney. Take a wire wheel on a drill to the
> cumbustion chamber valve seat area on the head and clean them up. Buy a
> valve lapping kit for about $10 and lap the valves in. Very simple
> procedure and will show you exactly how much contact you have between valve
> and seat and will properly mate them together for a good seal. Throw it
> back together and you're good to go.
> This whole job could cost you as little as $200 depending on your buying
> level. You won't buy much travel time with a new engine for $200. Again, go
> to your library and take out a book on general engine repair/overhaul. An
> old book is better than a new one as this is the type of work that was
> routinely done in the 50's and 60's and seldom done now due to the high cost
> of labor and the longevity of engines.
> Steve