You need to go to Europe to see this. Standing inside the bus terminal, in
Burgos, Spain, with three or four big diesel buses running, is like being
outside on a sunny day in LA or Denver. I once saw a California tourist,
get down on his hands and knees, to suck the exhaust smoke. He was that
homesick. Even the trains don't smell so bad.

http://earlehorton.tripod.com/trainengine.jpg

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:443E5824.E4CEBB19@sympatico.ca...
> I would have to be there to believe it.
>
> We have the lowest grade of diesel that will actually burn in an engine
> here in Canada and the crap they puke out the tailpipes is totally
> noxious. There is 'No' way anyone with a convertible can follow any
> diesel on the trail. It would choke you out.
>
> Same for getting stuck behind a bus or tractor trailer. Totally gagging
> gross if you get stuck behind them.
>
> Mike
>
> philthy wrote:
> >
> > even standing next to the lib u can not sme ll the fumes. let alone
barely hear
> > it run
> > the design of that engine in the liberty was well thought out
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > > My CJ7 gets 589 NO2 and 0.11% CO with no catalytic converter in the
> > > stream....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So what? The only way to clean NO2 and CO from gasoline engine
exhaust is to
> > > > use a catalyst in the exhaust flow.
> > > >
> > > > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:44343FD3.40596D55@***.net...
> > > > > That is pure unadulterated bullsh*t! The only way to clean the
> > > > > diesel soot from our air is use an exhaust filter like all diesels
sold
> > > > > in the U.S.of A.

 

You need to go to Europe to see this. Standing inside the bus terminal, in
Burgos, Spain, with three or four big diesel buses running, is like being
outside on a sunny day in LA or Denver. I once saw a California tourist,
get down on his hands and knees, to suck the exhaust smoke. He was that
homesick. Even the trains don't smell so bad.

http://earlehorton.tripod.com/trainengine.jpg

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:443E5824.E4CEBB19@sympatico.ca...
> I would have to be there to believe it.
>
> We have the lowest grade of diesel that will actually burn in an engine
> here in Canada and the crap they puke out the tailpipes is totally
> noxious. There is 'No' way anyone with a convertible can follow any
> diesel on the trail. It would choke you out.
>
> Same for getting stuck behind a bus or tractor trailer. Totally gagging
> gross if you get stuck behind them.
>
> Mike
>
> philthy wrote:
> >
> > even standing next to the lib u can not sme ll the fumes. let alone
barely hear
> > it run
> > the design of that engine in the liberty was well thought out
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > > My CJ7 gets 589 NO2 and 0.11% CO with no catalytic converter in the
> > > stream....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So what? The only way to clean NO2 and CO from gasoline engine
exhaust is to
> > > > use a catalyst in the exhaust flow.
> > > >
> > > > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:44343FD3.40596D55@***.net...
> > > > > That is pure unadulterated bullsh*t! The only way to clean the
> > > > > diesel soot from our air is use an exhaust filter like all diesels
sold
> > > > > in the U.S.of A.

 

I think it's ironic that we have certain 'acceptable' level of
pollutants which are federally mandated. As with manufacturers of
certain products and even drugs, there is even a certain level of
acceptable deaths associated. Personally, I don't think a pollution
level higher than an egg fart in an elevator should be acceptable, but I
guess that's a bit unrealistic. ;)

tw
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________


Earle Horton wrote:
> And CARB is going to follow the EPA. Fuel is basically double what it was
> two years ago. People have lost the stomach for **** style regulations that
> make it more expensive to drive, block the development of more efficient
> transport, and don't seem to alleviate the smog problem. Not to mention a
> top heavy bureaucracy that exists to siphon public money into their own
> pockets.
>
> Colorado is a good model for what will happen in California. We have smog
> in the Front Range, because of the wind patterns and the terrain, just like
> LA smog, but lighter. When you approach Denver from the north, you can see
> it, like a malevolent cancerous cloud. Yet pollution levels, as measured by
> Federal standards, have been acceptable for years. Anyone with a basic
> knowledge of politics knows how this works.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:TqudnR7YH9EkraPZRVn-pw@comcast.com...
>
>>It's CARB, not EPA...EPA is pretty much wussified in the past five
>
> years...
>
>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>>news:443DD4FF.D70D3FC9@***.net...
>>
>>> Except it's Environmental Protection Agency that get there moneys
>>>from our taxes, and government grants, and of course controlled by the
>>>bleeding heart liberal wacko limps.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bill,
>>>>
>>>>That's politics too. I'll bet that California legislation can be
>
> greased
>
>>>>even easier than Colorado legislation, when the time comes for it.
>>>>
>>>>Earle
>>
>>
>
>

 

I think it's ironic that we have certain 'acceptable' level of
pollutants which are federally mandated. As with manufacturers of
certain products and even drugs, there is even a certain level of
acceptable deaths associated. Personally, I don't think a pollution
level higher than an egg fart in an elevator should be acceptable, but I
guess that's a bit unrealistic. ;)

tw
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________


Earle Horton wrote:
> And CARB is going to follow the EPA. Fuel is basically double what it was
> two years ago. People have lost the stomach for **** style regulations that
> make it more expensive to drive, block the development of more efficient
> transport, and don't seem to alleviate the smog problem. Not to mention a
> top heavy bureaucracy that exists to siphon public money into their own
> pockets.
>
> Colorado is a good model for what will happen in California. We have smog
> in the Front Range, because of the wind patterns and the terrain, just like
> LA smog, but lighter. When you approach Denver from the north, you can see
> it, like a malevolent cancerous cloud. Yet pollution levels, as measured by
> Federal standards, have been acceptable for years. Anyone with a basic
> knowledge of politics knows how this works.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:TqudnR7YH9EkraPZRVn-pw@comcast.com...
>
>>It's CARB, not EPA...EPA is pretty much wussified in the past five
>
> years...
>
>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>>news:443DD4FF.D70D3FC9@***.net...
>>
>>> Except it's Environmental Protection Agency that get there moneys
>>>from our taxes, and government grants, and of course controlled by the
>>>bleeding heart liberal wacko limps.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bill,
>>>>
>>>>That's politics too. I'll bet that California legislation can be
>
> greased
>
>>>>even easier than Colorado legislation, when the time comes for it.
>>>>
>>>>Earle
>>
>>
>
>

 

I think it's ironic that we have certain 'acceptable' level of
pollutants which are federally mandated. As with manufacturers of
certain products and even drugs, there is even a certain level of
acceptable deaths associated. Personally, I don't think a pollution
level higher than an egg fart in an elevator should be acceptable, but I
guess that's a bit unrealistic. ;)

tw
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________


Earle Horton wrote:
> And CARB is going to follow the EPA. Fuel is basically double what it was
> two years ago. People have lost the stomach for **** style regulations that
> make it more expensive to drive, block the development of more efficient
> transport, and don't seem to alleviate the smog problem. Not to mention a
> top heavy bureaucracy that exists to siphon public money into their own
> pockets.
>
> Colorado is a good model for what will happen in California. We have smog
> in the Front Range, because of the wind patterns and the terrain, just like
> LA smog, but lighter. When you approach Denver from the north, you can see
> it, like a malevolent cancerous cloud. Yet pollution levels, as measured by
> Federal standards, have been acceptable for years. Anyone with a basic
> knowledge of politics knows how this works.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:TqudnR7YH9EkraPZRVn-pw@comcast.com...
>
>>It's CARB, not EPA...EPA is pretty much wussified in the past five
>
> years...
>
>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>>news:443DD4FF.D70D3FC9@***.net...
>>
>>> Except it's Environmental Protection Agency that get there moneys
>>>from our taxes, and government grants, and of course controlled by the
>>>bleeding heart liberal wacko limps.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bill,
>>>>
>>>>That's politics too. I'll bet that California legislation can be
>
> greased
>
>>>>even easier than Colorado legislation, when the time comes for it.
>>>>
>>>>Earle
>>
>>
>
>

 

That link sends me to your admin page....

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You need to go to Europe to see this. Standing inside the bus terminal, in
> Burgos, Spain, with three or four big diesel buses running, is like being
> outside on a sunny day in LA or Denver. I once saw a California tourist,
> get down on his hands and knees, to suck the exhaust smoke. He was that
> homesick. Even the trains don't smell so bad.
>
> http://earlehorton.tripod.com/trainengine.jpg
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:443E5824.E4CEBB19@sympatico.ca...
> > I would have to be there to believe it.
> >
> > We have the lowest grade of diesel that will actually burn in an engine
> > here in Canada and the crap they puke out the tailpipes is totally
> > noxious. There is 'No' way anyone with a convertible can follow any
> > diesel on the trail. It would choke you out.
> >
> > Same for getting stuck behind a bus or tractor trailer. Totally gagging
> > gross if you get stuck behind them.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > philthy wrote:
> > >
> > > even standing next to the lib u can not sme ll the fumes. let alone
> barely hear
> > > it run
> > > the design of that engine in the liberty was well thought out
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > > My CJ7 gets 589 NO2 and 0.11% CO with no catalytic converter in the
> > > > stream....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > So what? The only way to clean NO2 and CO from gasoline engine
> exhaust is to
> > > > > use a catalyst in the exhaust flow.
> > > > >
> > > > > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:44343FD3.40596D55@***.net...
> > > > > > That is pure unadulterated bullsh*t! The only way to clean the
> > > > > > diesel soot from our air is use an exhaust filter like all diesels
> sold
> > > > > > in the U.S.of A.

 

That link sends me to your admin page....

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You need to go to Europe to see this. Standing inside the bus terminal, in
> Burgos, Spain, with three or four big diesel buses running, is like being
> outside on a sunny day in LA or Denver. I once saw a California tourist,
> get down on his hands and knees, to suck the exhaust smoke. He was that
> homesick. Even the trains don't smell so bad.
>
> http://earlehorton.tripod.com/trainengine.jpg
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:443E5824.E4CEBB19@sympatico.ca...
> > I would have to be there to believe it.
> >
> > We have the lowest grade of diesel that will actually burn in an engine
> > here in Canada and the crap they puke out the tailpipes is totally
> > noxious. There is 'No' way anyone with a convertible can follow any
> > diesel on the trail. It would choke you out.
> >
> > Same for getting stuck behind a bus or tractor trailer. Totally gagging
> > gross if you get stuck behind them.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > philthy wrote:
> > >
> > > even standing next to the lib u can not sme ll the fumes. let alone
> barely hear
> > > it run
> > > the design of that engine in the liberty was well thought out
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > > My CJ7 gets 589 NO2 and 0.11% CO with no catalytic converter in the
> > > > stream....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > So what? The only way to clean NO2 and CO from gasoline engine
> exhaust is to
> > > > > use a catalyst in the exhaust flow.
> > > > >
> > > > > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:44343FD3.40596D55@***.net...
> > > > > > That is pure unadulterated bullsh*t! The only way to clean the
> > > > > > diesel soot from our air is use an exhaust filter like all diesels
> sold
> > > > > > in the U.S.of A.

 

That link sends me to your admin page....

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You need to go to Europe to see this. Standing inside the bus terminal, in
> Burgos, Spain, with three or four big diesel buses running, is like being
> outside on a sunny day in LA or Denver. I once saw a California tourist,
> get down on his hands and knees, to suck the exhaust smoke. He was that
> homesick. Even the trains don't smell so bad.
>
> http://earlehorton.tripod.com/trainengine.jpg
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:443E5824.E4CEBB19@sympatico.ca...
> > I would have to be there to believe it.
> >
> > We have the lowest grade of diesel that will actually burn in an engine
> > here in Canada and the crap they puke out the tailpipes is totally
> > noxious. There is 'No' way anyone with a convertible can follow any
> > diesel on the trail. It would choke you out.
> >
> > Same for getting stuck behind a bus or tractor trailer. Totally gagging
> > gross if you get stuck behind them.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > philthy wrote:
> > >
> > > even standing next to the lib u can not sme ll the fumes. let alone
> barely hear
> > > it run
> > > the design of that engine in the liberty was well thought out
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > > My CJ7 gets 589 NO2 and 0.11% CO with no catalytic converter in the
> > > > stream....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > So what? The only way to clean NO2 and CO from gasoline engine
> exhaust is to
> > > > > use a catalyst in the exhaust flow.
> > > > >
> > > > > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:44343FD3.40596D55@***.net...
> > > > > > That is pure unadulterated bullsh*t! The only way to clean the
> > > > > > diesel soot from our air is use an exhaust filter like all diesels
> sold
> > > > > > in the U.S.of A.

 

I live in Toronto. Not only do we have an insane amount of trucks and
busses on the roads, we have a heavy layer of pollution from Your US
great lakes industrial system covering us.

They have to post a warning in the paper every day for the level of
activity. Today's level is 'moderate', 'mild exposure (to the air in
downtown Toronto) can cause irritation' in 'healthy' people.

I was out in the lake fishing a few years back as the sun came up. We
had a beautiful view of the city until about 8:30 AM. By then it was
just a brown dome with 'no' buildings even slightly visible.

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You need to go to Europe to see this. Standing inside the bus terminal, in
> Burgos, Spain, with three or four big diesel buses running, is like being
> outside on a sunny day in LA or Denver. I once saw a California tourist,
> get down on his hands and knees, to suck the exhaust smoke. He was that
> homesick. Even the trains don't smell so bad.
>
> http://earlehorton.tripod.com/trainengine.jpg
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:443E5824.E4CEBB19@sympatico.ca...
> > I would have to be there to believe it.
> >
> > We have the lowest grade of diesel that will actually burn in an engine
> > here in Canada and the crap they puke out the tailpipes is totally
> > noxious. There is 'No' way anyone with a convertible can follow any
> > diesel on the trail. It would choke you out.
> >
> > Same for getting stuck behind a bus or tractor trailer. Totally gagging
> > gross if you get stuck behind them.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > philthy wrote:
> > >
> > > even standing next to the lib u can not sme ll the fumes. let alone
> barely hear
> > > it run
> > > the design of that engine in the liberty was well thought out
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > > My CJ7 gets 589 NO2 and 0.11% CO with no catalytic converter in the
> > > > stream....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > So what? The only way to clean NO2 and CO from gasoline engine
> exhaust is to
> > > > > use a catalyst in the exhaust flow.
> > > > >
> > > > > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:44343FD3.40596D55@***.net...
> > > > > > That is pure unadulterated bullsh*t! The only way to clean the
> > > > > > diesel soot from our air is use an exhaust filter like all diesels
> sold
> > > > > > in the U.S.of A.

 

I live in Toronto. Not only do we have an insane amount of trucks and
busses on the roads, we have a heavy layer of pollution from Your US
great lakes industrial system covering us.

They have to post a warning in the paper every day for the level of
activity. Today's level is 'moderate', 'mild exposure (to the air in
downtown Toronto) can cause irritation' in 'healthy' people.

I was out in the lake fishing a few years back as the sun came up. We
had a beautiful view of the city until about 8:30 AM. By then it was
just a brown dome with 'no' buildings even slightly visible.

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You need to go to Europe to see this. Standing inside the bus terminal, in
> Burgos, Spain, with three or four big diesel buses running, is like being
> outside on a sunny day in LA or Denver. I once saw a California tourist,
> get down on his hands and knees, to suck the exhaust smoke. He was that
> homesick. Even the trains don't smell so bad.
>
> http://earlehorton.tripod.com/trainengine.jpg
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:443E5824.E4CEBB19@sympatico.ca...
> > I would have to be there to believe it.
> >
> > We have the lowest grade of diesel that will actually burn in an engine
> > here in Canada and the crap they puke out the tailpipes is totally
> > noxious. There is 'No' way anyone with a convertible can follow any
> > diesel on the trail. It would choke you out.
> >
> > Same for getting stuck behind a bus or tractor trailer. Totally gagging
> > gross if you get stuck behind them.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > philthy wrote:
> > >
> > > even standing next to the lib u can not sme ll the fumes. let alone
> barely hear
> > > it run
> > > the design of that engine in the liberty was well thought out
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > > My CJ7 gets 589 NO2 and 0.11% CO with no catalytic converter in the
> > > > stream....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > So what? The only way to clean NO2 and CO from gasoline engine
> exhaust is to
> > > > > use a catalyst in the exhaust flow.
> > > > >
> > > > > "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:44343FD3.40596D55@***.net...
> > > > > > That is pure unadulterated bullsh*t! The only way to clean the
> > > > > > diesel soot from our air is use an exhaust filter like all diesels
> sold
> > > > > > in the U.S.of A.