Matt Macchiarolo

Where in my post did I say "sweat shops don't exist?" As the standard of
living in these countries grows, you'll see less of them over time.

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:8PUke.39152$G8.29492@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I've a friend in Thailand who gets paid about 1.50 per hour - she has an
> MSc
> as well.. In the villages, 9 year old children work after school..
> That's
> why we can buy silk ties for 2 quid there that get sold for 20 quid here..
> Sweat shops very much do exist, and you can bet that the imigrants that
> make
> it here are sending the money back home to support their relatives.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:d5CdnRSx89RCcw7fRVn-1A@comcast.com...
>> "Sweat shop" factories really aren't as prevalent as most of us in the
> West
>> think; in the case of automotive manufacturers, most of these Asian
>> plants
>> are as state-of-the-art as any in the West and are staffed by workers who
>> want those jobs because they pay better than anything else around.
>
>

Matt Macchiarolo

Where in my post did I say "sweat shops don't exist?" As the standard of
living in these countries grows, you'll see less of them over time.

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:8PUke.39152$G8.29492@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I've a friend in Thailand who gets paid about 1.50 per hour - she has an
> MSc
> as well.. In the villages, 9 year old children work after school..
> That's
> why we can buy silk ties for 2 quid there that get sold for 20 quid here..
> Sweat shops very much do exist, and you can bet that the imigrants that
> make
> it here are sending the money back home to support their relatives.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:d5CdnRSx89RCcw7fRVn-1A@comcast.com...
>> "Sweat shop" factories really aren't as prevalent as most of us in the
> West
>> think; in the case of automotive manufacturers, most of these Asian
>> plants
>> are as state-of-the-art as any in the West and are staffed by workers who
>> want those jobs because they pay better than anything else around.
>
>

Matt Macchiarolo

Where in my post did I say "sweat shops don't exist?" As the standard of
living in these countries grows, you'll see less of them over time.

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:8PUke.39152$G8.29492@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I've a friend in Thailand who gets paid about 1.50 per hour - she has an
> MSc
> as well.. In the villages, 9 year old children work after school..
> That's
> why we can buy silk ties for 2 quid there that get sold for 20 quid here..
> Sweat shops very much do exist, and you can bet that the imigrants that
> make
> it here are sending the money back home to support their relatives.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:d5CdnRSx89RCcw7fRVn-1A@comcast.com...
>> "Sweat shop" factories really aren't as prevalent as most of us in the
> West
>> think; in the case of automotive manufacturers, most of these Asian
>> plants
>> are as state-of-the-art as any in the West and are staffed by workers who
>> want those jobs because they pay better than anything else around.
>
>

Tom Greening

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:8PUke.39152$G8.29492@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I've a friend in Thailand who gets paid about 1.50 per hour - she has an
MSc
> as well.. In the villages, 9 year old children work after school..
That's
> why we can buy silk ties for 2 quid there that get sold for 20 quid here..
> Sweat shops very much do exist, and you can bet that the imigrants that
make
> it here are sending the money back home to support their relatives.
>



And a ways back, in this country right here, big families were the norm
becuase kids were more or less field hands. IOW, they worked their asses
off to pull their weight for the greater family good. This is still
relatively common within certain communities. I seen 9-10 yr old kids all
the time bustin their humps mowing grass, feeding livestock, working the
fields with pop. Nothing wrong with a kid working his butt off like the
rest of the family. If it's done with a whip, that's a different story
altogether.

I've been to some of these places first hand and SEEN some of what people
bitch about. Are things up to our standards? Not really, but they do go
more or less hand in hand with the current economic development of the
countries it happens in. Just as it did in our day here.

At $1.50 an hour she is right up there making pretty damn good money for the
section of world she lives in. $1.50 hr is pretty damn good for places
like India, China, etc and is right in line with the general cost of living
in those areas.

You want to see **** poor conditions, for EVERYone concerned, not just kids,
go to India one time. The cities there are literal hell holes and I don't
care what your age is. Damn near everyone (and in a country of over 1
billion people, "damn near" is a lot) works on a dirt floor in crappy
conditions. Do you know how they pave highways over there? By hand. A
truck dumps a bunch of big *** rocks at the jobsite, everyone with enough
muscle turns the biguns into little 'uns, mom and the kids fill up woven
baskets, carry them to the edge of the new road, and dump them out to form
the base. Rince, repeat, and at the end of the day setup a tent (if your
lucky enough to have one) at the edge of the days progress and wait till
morning to do it all again. I've seen it first hand. Are they being
"abused"? Not a bit becuase it's just the way it is right now. These
places are just beginning to have their Industrial Revolution and improving
conditions will follow right along, just as it did here during our
revolution.

Migrants that make it here can send enough money home to let their families
back east live DAMN good for their areas. Remember, $250/month is ALREADY
good money for some of these places. Double that and you're high on the
hog.

Tom Greening

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:8PUke.39152$G8.29492@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I've a friend in Thailand who gets paid about 1.50 per hour - she has an
MSc
> as well.. In the villages, 9 year old children work after school..
That's
> why we can buy silk ties for 2 quid there that get sold for 20 quid here..
> Sweat shops very much do exist, and you can bet that the imigrants that
make
> it here are sending the money back home to support their relatives.
>



And a ways back, in this country right here, big families were the norm
becuase kids were more or less field hands. IOW, they worked their asses
off to pull their weight for the greater family good. This is still
relatively common within certain communities. I seen 9-10 yr old kids all
the time bustin their humps mowing grass, feeding livestock, working the
fields with pop. Nothing wrong with a kid working his butt off like the
rest of the family. If it's done with a whip, that's a different story
altogether.

I've been to some of these places first hand and SEEN some of what people
bitch about. Are things up to our standards? Not really, but they do go
more or less hand in hand with the current economic development of the
countries it happens in. Just as it did in our day here.

At $1.50 an hour she is right up there making pretty damn good money for the
section of world she lives in. $1.50 hr is pretty damn good for places
like India, China, etc and is right in line with the general cost of living
in those areas.

You want to see **** poor conditions, for EVERYone concerned, not just kids,
go to India one time. The cities there are literal hell holes and I don't
care what your age is. Damn near everyone (and in a country of over 1
billion people, "damn near" is a lot) works on a dirt floor in crappy
conditions. Do you know how they pave highways over there? By hand. A
truck dumps a bunch of big *** rocks at the jobsite, everyone with enough
muscle turns the biguns into little 'uns, mom and the kids fill up woven
baskets, carry them to the edge of the new road, and dump them out to form
the base. Rince, repeat, and at the end of the day setup a tent (if your
lucky enough to have one) at the edge of the days progress and wait till
morning to do it all again. I've seen it first hand. Are they being
"abused"? Not a bit becuase it's just the way it is right now. These
places are just beginning to have their Industrial Revolution and improving
conditions will follow right along, just as it did here during our
revolution.

Migrants that make it here can send enough money home to let their families
back east live DAMN good for their areas. Remember, $250/month is ALREADY
good money for some of these places. Double that and you're high on the
hog.

Tom Greening

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:8PUke.39152$G8.29492@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I've a friend in Thailand who gets paid about 1.50 per hour - she has an
MSc
> as well.. In the villages, 9 year old children work after school..
That's
> why we can buy silk ties for 2 quid there that get sold for 20 quid here..
> Sweat shops very much do exist, and you can bet that the imigrants that
make
> it here are sending the money back home to support their relatives.
>



And a ways back, in this country right here, big families were the norm
becuase kids were more or less field hands. IOW, they worked their asses
off to pull their weight for the greater family good. This is still
relatively common within certain communities. I seen 9-10 yr old kids all
the time bustin their humps mowing grass, feeding livestock, working the
fields with pop. Nothing wrong with a kid working his butt off like the
rest of the family. If it's done with a whip, that's a different story
altogether.

I've been to some of these places first hand and SEEN some of what people
bitch about. Are things up to our standards? Not really, but they do go
more or less hand in hand with the current economic development of the
countries it happens in. Just as it did in our day here.

At $1.50 an hour she is right up there making pretty damn good money for the
section of world she lives in. $1.50 hr is pretty damn good for places
like India, China, etc and is right in line with the general cost of living
in those areas.

You want to see **** poor conditions, for EVERYone concerned, not just kids,
go to India one time. The cities there are literal hell holes and I don't
care what your age is. Damn near everyone (and in a country of over 1
billion people, "damn near" is a lot) works on a dirt floor in crappy
conditions. Do you know how they pave highways over there? By hand. A
truck dumps a bunch of big *** rocks at the jobsite, everyone with enough
muscle turns the biguns into little 'uns, mom and the kids fill up woven
baskets, carry them to the edge of the new road, and dump them out to form
the base. Rince, repeat, and at the end of the day setup a tent (if your
lucky enough to have one) at the edge of the days progress and wait till
morning to do it all again. I've seen it first hand. Are they being
"abused"? Not a bit becuase it's just the way it is right now. These
places are just beginning to have their Industrial Revolution and improving
conditions will follow right along, just as it did here during our
revolution.

Migrants that make it here can send enough money home to let their families
back east live DAMN good for their areas. Remember, $250/month is ALREADY
good money for some of these places. Double that and you're high on the
hog.

Tom Greening

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:8PUke.39152$G8.29492@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I've a friend in Thailand who gets paid about 1.50 per hour - she has an
MSc
> as well.. In the villages, 9 year old children work after school..
That's
> why we can buy silk ties for 2 quid there that get sold for 20 quid here..
> Sweat shops very much do exist, and you can bet that the imigrants that
make
> it here are sending the money back home to support their relatives.
>



And a ways back, in this country right here, big families were the norm
becuase kids were more or less field hands. IOW, they worked their asses
off to pull their weight for the greater family good. This is still
relatively common within certain communities. I seen 9-10 yr old kids all
the time bustin their humps mowing grass, feeding livestock, working the
fields with pop. Nothing wrong with a kid working his butt off like the
rest of the family. If it's done with a whip, that's a different story
altogether.

I've been to some of these places first hand and SEEN some of what people
bitch about. Are things up to our standards? Not really, but they do go
more or less hand in hand with the current economic development of the
countries it happens in. Just as it did in our day here.

At $1.50 an hour she is right up there making pretty damn good money for the
section of world she lives in. $1.50 hr is pretty damn good for places
like India, China, etc and is right in line with the general cost of living
in those areas.

You want to see **** poor conditions, for EVERYone concerned, not just kids,
go to India one time. The cities there are literal hell holes and I don't
care what your age is. Damn near everyone (and in a country of over 1
billion people, "damn near" is a lot) works on a dirt floor in crappy
conditions. Do you know how they pave highways over there? By hand. A
truck dumps a bunch of big *** rocks at the jobsite, everyone with enough
muscle turns the biguns into little 'uns, mom and the kids fill up woven
baskets, carry them to the edge of the new road, and dump them out to form
the base. Rince, repeat, and at the end of the day setup a tent (if your
lucky enough to have one) at the edge of the days progress and wait till
morning to do it all again. I've seen it first hand. Are they being
"abused"? Not a bit becuase it's just the way it is right now. These
places are just beginning to have their Industrial Revolution and improving
conditions will follow right along, just as it did here during our
revolution.

Migrants that make it here can send enough money home to let their families
back east live DAMN good for their areas. Remember, $250/month is ALREADY
good money for some of these places. Double that and you're high on the
hog.

Matt Macchiarolo

But since labor costs are still so low in many countries, it's no wonder why
businesses (and not just American businesses) are shifting production to
those countries.

As far as the Japanese building a better car, I think among major auto
manufacturers the quality gap is so small now that it's a crap shoot in
trying to determine who builds a "better" car. In the 70's and 80's, it was
easier to measure since compared to Japanese imports, American cars of that
time were overpriced, gas-guzzling, often-repaired, poorly-built piles of
crap. But the industry adjusted and stepped up their game to match the
Japanese. Nowadays, the quality gap is more public perception than a
quantified, measurable phenomenon.

Case in point...Every car I have ever owned was built by a US manufacturer
until about two years ago when we decided to lease a Honda minivan for the
wifey. Nice vehicle, had the features we wanted, etc, but it had a major
factory defect that eventually forced them to buy it back under the Michigan
lemon law. And in the interim, American carmakers introduced refinements in
their products that brought us to lease a Ford Freestar instead.

FWIW, living in suburban Detroit, we probably see a lot fewer imports than
in other parts of the country, anyway. I visit my parents in Arkansas and
probably half of the cars down there are imports. I can only imagine how
many imports you see, Bill...

And on that note, it's interesting to see that many parts on my Ford
products and TJ are assembled in Mexico...my next-door neighbor, a German
with a Mexican wife, works for an international OEM auto supplier, with
plants in Mexico, France, Germany, UK, and USA (he currently works as
production manager at the US plant here in Michigan). When the TJ when it
was introduced, his company made the anti-sway bar assemblies at their
Mexico plant, which is where he was stationed at the time. The company
supplies parts (mainly insulation and acoustic panels) for every major
carmarker in the world.


"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42940278.E3F1A84D@***.net...
> The World wage blew past us ten years ago:
> http://www.phil.frb.org/files/br/brma98sg.pdf And the stupid people in
> this thread still think dollar per dollar the Japanese can build a
> better car than Americans.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>>
>> While this may have been the norm in the past, it is rapidly becoming
>> obsolete thinking. Yes, wages are much less overseas (in Asia especially)
>> but costs of living are also much lower as well; the wage/cost of living
>> gap
>> in these regions are wider than the West, but the gap is rapidly
>> closing.
>> "Sweat shop" factories really aren't as prevalent as most of us in the
>> West
>> think; in the case of automotive manufacturers, most of these Asian
>> plants
>> are as state-of-the-art as any in the West and are staffed by workers who
>> want those jobs because they pay better than anything else around.
>>
>> In a nutshell, the world business climate is changing, and the next
>> three
>> to five generations of Americans are going to be left behind if they
>> aren't
>> prepared for it.
>>
>> Reading suggestion: "The World is Flat" by Thomas Friedman.

Matt Macchiarolo

But since labor costs are still so low in many countries, it's no wonder why
businesses (and not just American businesses) are shifting production to
those countries.

As far as the Japanese building a better car, I think among major auto
manufacturers the quality gap is so small now that it's a crap shoot in
trying to determine who builds a "better" car. In the 70's and 80's, it was
easier to measure since compared to Japanese imports, American cars of that
time were overpriced, gas-guzzling, often-repaired, poorly-built piles of
crap. But the industry adjusted and stepped up their game to match the
Japanese. Nowadays, the quality gap is more public perception than a
quantified, measurable phenomenon.

Case in point...Every car I have ever owned was built by a US manufacturer
until about two years ago when we decided to lease a Honda minivan for the
wifey. Nice vehicle, had the features we wanted, etc, but it had a major
factory defect that eventually forced them to buy it back under the Michigan
lemon law. And in the interim, American carmakers introduced refinements in
their products that brought us to lease a Ford Freestar instead.

FWIW, living in suburban Detroit, we probably see a lot fewer imports than
in other parts of the country, anyway. I visit my parents in Arkansas and
probably half of the cars down there are imports. I can only imagine how
many imports you see, Bill...

And on that note, it's interesting to see that many parts on my Ford
products and TJ are assembled in Mexico...my next-door neighbor, a German
with a Mexican wife, works for an international OEM auto supplier, with
plants in Mexico, France, Germany, UK, and USA (he currently works as
production manager at the US plant here in Michigan). When the TJ when it
was introduced, his company made the anti-sway bar assemblies at their
Mexico plant, which is where he was stationed at the time. The company
supplies parts (mainly insulation and acoustic panels) for every major
carmarker in the world.


"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42940278.E3F1A84D@***.net...
> The World wage blew past us ten years ago:
> http://www.phil.frb.org/files/br/brma98sg.pdf And the stupid people in
> this thread still think dollar per dollar the Japanese can build a
> better car than Americans.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>>
>> While this may have been the norm in the past, it is rapidly becoming
>> obsolete thinking. Yes, wages are much less overseas (in Asia especially)
>> but costs of living are also much lower as well; the wage/cost of living
>> gap
>> in these regions are wider than the West, but the gap is rapidly
>> closing.
>> "Sweat shop" factories really aren't as prevalent as most of us in the
>> West
>> think; in the case of automotive manufacturers, most of these Asian
>> plants
>> are as state-of-the-art as any in the West and are staffed by workers who
>> want those jobs because they pay better than anything else around.
>>
>> In a nutshell, the world business climate is changing, and the next
>> three
>> to five generations of Americans are going to be left behind if they
>> aren't
>> prepared for it.
>>
>> Reading suggestion: "The World is Flat" by Thomas Friedman.

Matt Macchiarolo

But since labor costs are still so low in many countries, it's no wonder why
businesses (and not just American businesses) are shifting production to
those countries.

As far as the Japanese building a better car, I think among major auto
manufacturers the quality gap is so small now that it's a crap shoot in
trying to determine who builds a "better" car. In the 70's and 80's, it was
easier to measure since compared to Japanese imports, American cars of that
time were overpriced, gas-guzzling, often-repaired, poorly-built piles of
crap. But the industry adjusted and stepped up their game to match the
Japanese. Nowadays, the quality gap is more public perception than a
quantified, measurable phenomenon.

Case in point...Every car I have ever owned was built by a US manufacturer
until about two years ago when we decided to lease a Honda minivan for the
wifey. Nice vehicle, had the features we wanted, etc, but it had a major
factory defect that eventually forced them to buy it back under the Michigan
lemon law. And in the interim, American carmakers introduced refinements in
their products that brought us to lease a Ford Freestar instead.

FWIW, living in suburban Detroit, we probably see a lot fewer imports than
in other parts of the country, anyway. I visit my parents in Arkansas and
probably half of the cars down there are imports. I can only imagine how
many imports you see, Bill...

And on that note, it's interesting to see that many parts on my Ford
products and TJ are assembled in Mexico...my next-door neighbor, a German
with a Mexican wife, works for an international OEM auto supplier, with
plants in Mexico, France, Germany, UK, and USA (he currently works as
production manager at the US plant here in Michigan). When the TJ when it
was introduced, his company made the anti-sway bar assemblies at their
Mexico plant, which is where he was stationed at the time. The company
supplies parts (mainly insulation and acoustic panels) for every major
carmarker in the world.


"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42940278.E3F1A84D@***.net...
> The World wage blew past us ten years ago:
> http://www.phil.frb.org/files/br/brma98sg.pdf And the stupid people in
> this thread still think dollar per dollar the Japanese can build a
> better car than Americans.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>>
>> While this may have been the norm in the past, it is rapidly becoming
>> obsolete thinking. Yes, wages are much less overseas (in Asia especially)
>> but costs of living are also much lower as well; the wage/cost of living
>> gap
>> in these regions are wider than the West, but the gap is rapidly
>> closing.
>> "Sweat shop" factories really aren't as prevalent as most of us in the
>> West
>> think; in the case of automotive manufacturers, most of these Asian
>> plants
>> are as state-of-the-art as any in the West and are staffed by workers who
>> want those jobs because they pay better than anything else around.
>>
>> In a nutshell, the world business climate is changing, and the next
>> three
>> to five generations of Americans are going to be left behind if they
>> aren't
>> prepared for it.
>>
>> Reading suggestion: "The World is Flat" by Thomas Friedman.