Re: Re: detroit locker problem
 

"SnoMan" <admin@snoman.com> wrote in message
news:hmdma3d5fij1n1lvbqi3msu7ne88k15ams@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 04:34:58 -0700, bonsai4tim@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Yes, you should be able to pull the locker without altering the gear
>>> mesh
>>> settings. If you have the EZ Locker, then you are at a cross-road. You
>>> have
>>> to consider putting in another EZ Locker, or upgrading to the Full
>>> Detroit
>>> that can handle the loads placed upon it.
>>
>>Yes, its a dana 35 (key error)
>>
>>Its not an EZ locker, it's the Full Detroit style.
>>
>>tim
>
>
> The "problem" with a Detriot type lockers is that if the is any speed
> variatio between the two wheels going down the road that can clunck
> and when they get can get worse. These style lockers have absolutely
> no abilty to power both wheel at even the slighest speed difference.
> It is either both locked together and skidding in a turn and it
> unlocking when conditons permit and switching to 1wd and one wheel
> coasting. You are hearing this happen. Eitheri you have a different
> rolling radius between them, your truck is dog tracking a bit and you
> are wondering a bit on the road abd a speed differnce is developing
> and it is trying to rachet one wheel to free torque on axles. ALso a
> D35 is not a strong axle not have a very big carrier so with a Detriot
> in it and big tires it is going to tend to wear out with time and get
> clunkier in operation. A carrier gets its strength for its diameterand
> the small carrier ina D35 with a detriot works a lot harder than even
> a D44 carrier on same wheel torque load. This is one reasom why GM
> GovLocs have been known to grenade in 10 bolts with big tires and off
> road use because the carrier is small in diameter compared to a GM 9.5
> or 10.5 which have bigger daimeter carriers and lower surface loads on
> clutch or locking device because on their increased diameter. To put
> it another way in your D35 the locking device has maybe a 3 inch
> diameter at most (likely less) because of small carrier and if it is
> indeed 3 inched were it locks at the mean you have a 1.5 inch radiuse
> from axle center line and you have tires that have a 16.5 inch radius
> from center line so 16.5 divided by 1.5 equals 11 which meeans 11
> times the force place on one wheel is placed on locker and 22 times
> that amount for ce applied to both wheels. If you put down a combine
> suface trative force of say 3000 lbs that means that locker is seeing
> over 60,000 pound of force which will take a toll with time. A bigger
> axle with a bigger carrier that allowed even a 1 inch bigger daimeter
> locker would se switched locker surface loads reduced 33% with same
> surface traction effort being applied. What this all means is
> everything else look okay your locker is likely wearing out from the
> extreme loads being placed on it.


You should stick to things you know (which would limit your posts, sorry).

It is clear that you do not have a Detroit Locker. I happen to agree with
you though, the D35 is not up to the task of a Detroit and 35s. Having said
that, the axle shafts in a D35 should have been upgraded to what they call a
Super35 when the Detroit was installed.

Re: detroit locker problem
 

<bonsai4tim@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1185548968.666007.153410@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've got a TJ 2004 dana 25 with 33 inch tires (3 inch lift) with 4.11
> gears and a detroit locker (professionally installed by a shop that
> does this regularly). The locker was installed over 3 years ago/50K
> miles ago. No wrecks or accidents, so the frame and front end
> alignment haven't changed.
>
> Over the last month, the locker has started "popping" every 20-30
> seconds while going down the road. I've checked tire air pressure
> (didn't make a difference) tire diameter was off due to very uneven
> wear, and put new BFG t/o's on it last week, with no change in
> behavior. (also had the alignment done at a shop that specializes in
> lifted trucks)
>
> Seems almost like one side is "loose" and slipping a tooth on the
> locker "gear". When it was up on the rack at the shop, it looked like
> the right side was "tight" and difficult to unlock, and the left side
> was "loose" and easy to unlock, but the diff still locks up.
>
> Are there any parts that are replacable in a detroit (this is standard
> detroit, not a gearless)?
>
> Can I pull the locker out and do this without having to re-do the diff
> gear set up? (If not, the labor+parts is likely to be the same as
> having a new locker put in)
>
>
> thanks
>
> tim
>

I have a full Detroit in my AMC20, and an EZ Locker in the D30 on my front
axle. I've been driving my CJ with the front hubs locked constantly for
years, and I never have any problem from the front.

The rear is known to unload on occasion, but the unloading is nowhere near
the frequency you report. And, turns do not seem to be a requirement to make
the rear end unload. There are lots of factors that lead to an unload event,
but I get a single unload (loud bang and torque steer that can cause a
change in lane position) then nothing happens again for a long time. I drive
mountain highways to my offroading locations, and I drive around town
running errands, and I even hit the freeway from time to time.

My AMC20 is considerably different than your D35, and I run 32s instead of
33s.

In any case, I can't see any way to diagnose your trouble without at least
pulling the diff cover off.

Do you know if your shop installed the Super35 Kit when they put the locker
in? The Super35 axles are supposed to be stronger than standard axles -- the
marketing propoganda says they are as good as D44 axles.

I do not think that your noticing that one side can ratchet and the other
does not is a part of the symptom set.

Re: detroit locker problem
 

<bonsai4tim@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1185548968.666007.153410@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've got a TJ 2004 dana 25 with 33 inch tires (3 inch lift) with 4.11
> gears and a detroit locker (professionally installed by a shop that
> does this regularly). The locker was installed over 3 years ago/50K
> miles ago. No wrecks or accidents, so the frame and front end
> alignment haven't changed.
>
> Over the last month, the locker has started "popping" every 20-30
> seconds while going down the road. I've checked tire air pressure
> (didn't make a difference) tire diameter was off due to very uneven
> wear, and put new BFG t/o's on it last week, with no change in
> behavior. (also had the alignment done at a shop that specializes in
> lifted trucks)
>
> Seems almost like one side is "loose" and slipping a tooth on the
> locker "gear". When it was up on the rack at the shop, it looked like
> the right side was "tight" and difficult to unlock, and the left side
> was "loose" and easy to unlock, but the diff still locks up.
>
> Are there any parts that are replacable in a detroit (this is standard
> detroit, not a gearless)?
>
> Can I pull the locker out and do this without having to re-do the diff
> gear set up? (If not, the labor+parts is likely to be the same as
> having a new locker put in)
>
>
> thanks
>
> tim
>

I have a full Detroit in my AMC20, and an EZ Locker in the D30 on my front
axle. I've been driving my CJ with the front hubs locked constantly for
years, and I never have any problem from the front.

The rear is known to unload on occasion, but the unloading is nowhere near
the frequency you report. And, turns do not seem to be a requirement to make
the rear end unload. There are lots of factors that lead to an unload event,
but I get a single unload (loud bang and torque steer that can cause a
change in lane position) then nothing happens again for a long time. I drive
mountain highways to my offroading locations, and I drive around town
running errands, and I even hit the freeway from time to time.

My AMC20 is considerably different than your D35, and I run 32s instead of
33s.

In any case, I can't see any way to diagnose your trouble without at least
pulling the diff cover off.

Do you know if your shop installed the Super35 Kit when they put the locker
in? The Super35 axles are supposed to be stronger than standard axles -- the
marketing propoganda says they are as good as D44 axles.

I do not think that your noticing that one side can ratchet and the other
does not is a part of the symptom set.

Re: detroit locker problem
 

<bonsai4tim@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1185548968.666007.153410@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've got a TJ 2004 dana 25 with 33 inch tires (3 inch lift) with 4.11
> gears and a detroit locker (professionally installed by a shop that
> does this regularly). The locker was installed over 3 years ago/50K
> miles ago. No wrecks or accidents, so the frame and front end
> alignment haven't changed.
>
> Over the last month, the locker has started "popping" every 20-30
> seconds while going down the road. I've checked tire air pressure
> (didn't make a difference) tire diameter was off due to very uneven
> wear, and put new BFG t/o's on it last week, with no change in
> behavior. (also had the alignment done at a shop that specializes in
> lifted trucks)
>
> Seems almost like one side is "loose" and slipping a tooth on the
> locker "gear". When it was up on the rack at the shop, it looked like
> the right side was "tight" and difficult to unlock, and the left side
> was "loose" and easy to unlock, but the diff still locks up.
>
> Are there any parts that are replacable in a detroit (this is standard
> detroit, not a gearless)?
>
> Can I pull the locker out and do this without having to re-do the diff
> gear set up? (If not, the labor+parts is likely to be the same as
> having a new locker put in)
>
>
> thanks
>
> tim
>

I have a full Detroit in my AMC20, and an EZ Locker in the D30 on my front
axle. I've been driving my CJ with the front hubs locked constantly for
years, and I never have any problem from the front.

The rear is known to unload on occasion, but the unloading is nowhere near
the frequency you report. And, turns do not seem to be a requirement to make
the rear end unload. There are lots of factors that lead to an unload event,
but I get a single unload (loud bang and torque steer that can cause a
change in lane position) then nothing happens again for a long time. I drive
mountain highways to my offroading locations, and I drive around town
running errands, and I even hit the freeway from time to time.

My AMC20 is considerably different than your D35, and I run 32s instead of
33s.

In any case, I can't see any way to diagnose your trouble without at least
pulling the diff cover off.

Do you know if your shop installed the Super35 Kit when they put the locker
in? The Super35 axles are supposed to be stronger than standard axles -- the
marketing propoganda says they are as good as D44 axles.

I do not think that your noticing that one side can ratchet and the other
does not is a part of the symptom set.

Re: detroit locker problem
 

<bonsai4tim@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1185548968.666007.153410@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've got a TJ 2004 dana 25 with 33 inch tires (3 inch lift) with 4.11
> gears and a detroit locker (professionally installed by a shop that
> does this regularly). The locker was installed over 3 years ago/50K
> miles ago. No wrecks or accidents, so the frame and front end
> alignment haven't changed.
>
> Over the last month, the locker has started "popping" every 20-30
> seconds while going down the road. I've checked tire air pressure
> (didn't make a difference) tire diameter was off due to very uneven
> wear, and put new BFG t/o's on it last week, with no change in
> behavior. (also had the alignment done at a shop that specializes in
> lifted trucks)
>
> Seems almost like one side is "loose" and slipping a tooth on the
> locker "gear". When it was up on the rack at the shop, it looked like
> the right side was "tight" and difficult to unlock, and the left side
> was "loose" and easy to unlock, but the diff still locks up.
>
> Are there any parts that are replacable in a detroit (this is standard
> detroit, not a gearless)?
>
> Can I pull the locker out and do this without having to re-do the diff
> gear set up? (If not, the labor+parts is likely to be the same as
> having a new locker put in)
>
>
> thanks
>
> tim
>

I have a full Detroit in my AMC20, and an EZ Locker in the D30 on my front
axle. I've been driving my CJ with the front hubs locked constantly for
years, and I never have any problem from the front.

The rear is known to unload on occasion, but the unloading is nowhere near
the frequency you report. And, turns do not seem to be a requirement to make
the rear end unload. There are lots of factors that lead to an unload event,
but I get a single unload (loud bang and torque steer that can cause a
change in lane position) then nothing happens again for a long time. I drive
mountain highways to my offroading locations, and I drive around town
running errands, and I even hit the freeway from time to time.

My AMC20 is considerably different than your D35, and I run 32s instead of
33s.

In any case, I can't see any way to diagnose your trouble without at least
pulling the diff cover off.

Do you know if your shop installed the Super35 Kit when they put the locker
in? The Super35 axles are supposed to be stronger than standard axles -- the
marketing propoganda says they are as good as D44 axles.

I do not think that your noticing that one side can ratchet and the other
does not is a part of the symptom set.

Re: detroit locker problem
 

Just to make things clear, I'm not a newby, I've been driving lockers
for over 10 years daily to work, I know how they are supposed to
handle, and I recognize when there is a change. I put over 120K on a
grand cherokee with a LockRite locker in it, with multiple sets of
tires, without having this problem

It is Detroit, not an EZ locker, not a "gearless" detroit.

It was installed by a professional shop with 20+ years experience
putting in gears and lockers.

I have 33 inch tires, not 35's or 36's. I'm well aware of the
limitations of a Dana 35 axle.

I have brand new tires, equal pressures, and a 4 wheel alignment as of
last week.

The locker has about 65K miles on it.

My original questions was whether or not there are any replaceable
parts it the locker, and if so, who sells them.

If parts are a close to the cost of a new detroit ($550 or so) then I
will just replace the whole thing.

tim

Re: detroit locker problem
 

Just to make things clear, I'm not a newby, I've been driving lockers
for over 10 years daily to work, I know how they are supposed to
handle, and I recognize when there is a change. I put over 120K on a
grand cherokee with a LockRite locker in it, with multiple sets of
tires, without having this problem

It is Detroit, not an EZ locker, not a "gearless" detroit.

It was installed by a professional shop with 20+ years experience
putting in gears and lockers.

I have 33 inch tires, not 35's or 36's. I'm well aware of the
limitations of a Dana 35 axle.

I have brand new tires, equal pressures, and a 4 wheel alignment as of
last week.

The locker has about 65K miles on it.

My original questions was whether or not there are any replaceable
parts it the locker, and if so, who sells them.

If parts are a close to the cost of a new detroit ($550 or so) then I
will just replace the whole thing.

tim

Re: detroit locker problem
 

Just to make things clear, I'm not a newby, I've been driving lockers
for over 10 years daily to work, I know how they are supposed to
handle, and I recognize when there is a change. I put over 120K on a
grand cherokee with a LockRite locker in it, with multiple sets of
tires, without having this problem

It is Detroit, not an EZ locker, not a "gearless" detroit.

It was installed by a professional shop with 20+ years experience
putting in gears and lockers.

I have 33 inch tires, not 35's or 36's. I'm well aware of the
limitations of a Dana 35 axle.

I have brand new tires, equal pressures, and a 4 wheel alignment as of
last week.

The locker has about 65K miles on it.

My original questions was whether or not there are any replaceable
parts it the locker, and if so, who sells them.

If parts are a close to the cost of a new detroit ($550 or so) then I
will just replace the whole thing.

tim

Re: detroit locker problem
 

Just to make things clear, I'm not a newby, I've been driving lockers
for over 10 years daily to work, I know how they are supposed to
handle, and I recognize when there is a change. I put over 120K on a
grand cherokee with a LockRite locker in it, with multiple sets of
tires, without having this problem

It is Detroit, not an EZ locker, not a "gearless" detroit.

It was installed by a professional shop with 20+ years experience
putting in gears and lockers.

I have 33 inch tires, not 35's or 36's. I'm well aware of the
limitations of a Dana 35 axle.

I have brand new tires, equal pressures, and a 4 wheel alignment as of
last week.

The locker has about 65K miles on it.

My original questions was whether or not there are any replaceable
parts it the locker, and if so, who sells them.

If parts are a close to the cost of a new detroit ($550 or so) then I
will just replace the whole thing.

tim

Re: detroit locker problem
 

<bonsai4tim@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1185637509.970924.205580@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
> Just to make things clear, I'm not a newby, I've been driving lockers
> for over 10 years daily to work, I know how they are supposed to
> handle, and I recognize when there is a change. I put over 120K on a
> grand cherokee with a LockRite locker in it, with multiple sets of
> tires, without having this problem
>
> It is Detroit, not an EZ locker, not a "gearless" detroit.
>
> It was installed by a professional shop with 20+ years experience
> putting in gears and lockers.
>
> I have 33 inch tires, not 35's or 36's. I'm well aware of the
> limitations of a Dana 35 axle.
>
> I have brand new tires, equal pressures, and a 4 wheel alignment as of
> last week.
>
> The locker has about 65K miles on it.
>
> My original questions was whether or not there are any replaceable
> parts it the locker, and if so, who sells them.
>
> If parts are a close to the cost of a new detroit ($550 or so) then I
> will just replace the whole thing.
>
> tim
>

I am not aware of any replaceable parts.

I am also not aware of any specific things to check for. As a mechanical
device, it really is quite simple. There are not many things that can go
wrong.