D-C might become just D and C.
#191
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: D-C might become just D and C.
Bill Kearney proclaimed:
>>when they water down their name by using it to sell
>>soft-roaders they also water down their heritage.
>
>
> That's just sentimental --------. If they stop selling actual off-roader
> then there'd be a problem of "heritage". But meanwhile they're selling
> units to keep revenues up so they can also make the off-roaders. Can't have
> one without the other and this has been true for quite a while.
>
Even though the actual percentage of Jeep owners who actually do wander
off the nearest Walmart parking lot is possibly higher than for other
makes, I'd be willing to bet it is still a minority of even Rubicon
models that are still bought for off roading as opposed to image or
necessity.
It would be nice to see Jeep make ALL models truly trailworthy, then aim
them at the different market segments so they might have enough sales
volume to either survive or keep the price of a basic Wrangler from
hitting $100K As for off road, a Range Rover with ride height
control may not be as fast in a straight line or in the twisties as an
SRT8 Cherokee, but I'd bet it would get more than 20 feet off the
Interstate and be able to get back...unlike the SRT8. Too bad Mercedes
doesn't have a good ride height control technology, at least that way
the Grands could have decent on road cruising and still have some
illusion of being at least moderate trail ready.
Personally I'd like to see the non-trail models go away, but have no
problem with something like an SRT6 Wrangler or SRT8 Grand that has a
suspension that would allow it to survive all but possibly the most hard
core trails. Street rods have done a lot for a lot lesser makes, e.g.
the 396 and secret 427 El Caminos that were otherwise a piece of crap.
>>when they water down their name by using it to sell
>>soft-roaders they also water down their heritage.
>
>
> That's just sentimental --------. If they stop selling actual off-roader
> then there'd be a problem of "heritage". But meanwhile they're selling
> units to keep revenues up so they can also make the off-roaders. Can't have
> one without the other and this has been true for quite a while.
>
Even though the actual percentage of Jeep owners who actually do wander
off the nearest Walmart parking lot is possibly higher than for other
makes, I'd be willing to bet it is still a minority of even Rubicon
models that are still bought for off roading as opposed to image or
necessity.
It would be nice to see Jeep make ALL models truly trailworthy, then aim
them at the different market segments so they might have enough sales
volume to either survive or keep the price of a basic Wrangler from
hitting $100K As for off road, a Range Rover with ride height
control may not be as fast in a straight line or in the twisties as an
SRT8 Cherokee, but I'd bet it would get more than 20 feet off the
Interstate and be able to get back...unlike the SRT8. Too bad Mercedes
doesn't have a good ride height control technology, at least that way
the Grands could have decent on road cruising and still have some
illusion of being at least moderate trail ready.
Personally I'd like to see the non-trail models go away, but have no
problem with something like an SRT6 Wrangler or SRT8 Grand that has a
suspension that would allow it to survive all but possibly the most hard
core trails. Street rods have done a lot for a lot lesser makes, e.g.
the 396 and secret 427 El Caminos that were otherwise a piece of crap.
#192
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: D-C might become just D and C.
Bill Kearney proclaimed:
>>when they water down their name by using it to sell
>>soft-roaders they also water down their heritage.
>
>
> That's just sentimental --------. If they stop selling actual off-roader
> then there'd be a problem of "heritage". But meanwhile they're selling
> units to keep revenues up so they can also make the off-roaders. Can't have
> one without the other and this has been true for quite a while.
>
Even though the actual percentage of Jeep owners who actually do wander
off the nearest Walmart parking lot is possibly higher than for other
makes, I'd be willing to bet it is still a minority of even Rubicon
models that are still bought for off roading as opposed to image or
necessity.
It would be nice to see Jeep make ALL models truly trailworthy, then aim
them at the different market segments so they might have enough sales
volume to either survive or keep the price of a basic Wrangler from
hitting $100K As for off road, a Range Rover with ride height
control may not be as fast in a straight line or in the twisties as an
SRT8 Cherokee, but I'd bet it would get more than 20 feet off the
Interstate and be able to get back...unlike the SRT8. Too bad Mercedes
doesn't have a good ride height control technology, at least that way
the Grands could have decent on road cruising and still have some
illusion of being at least moderate trail ready.
Personally I'd like to see the non-trail models go away, but have no
problem with something like an SRT6 Wrangler or SRT8 Grand that has a
suspension that would allow it to survive all but possibly the most hard
core trails. Street rods have done a lot for a lot lesser makes, e.g.
the 396 and secret 427 El Caminos that were otherwise a piece of crap.
>>when they water down their name by using it to sell
>>soft-roaders they also water down their heritage.
>
>
> That's just sentimental --------. If they stop selling actual off-roader
> then there'd be a problem of "heritage". But meanwhile they're selling
> units to keep revenues up so they can also make the off-roaders. Can't have
> one without the other and this has been true for quite a while.
>
Even though the actual percentage of Jeep owners who actually do wander
off the nearest Walmart parking lot is possibly higher than for other
makes, I'd be willing to bet it is still a minority of even Rubicon
models that are still bought for off roading as opposed to image or
necessity.
It would be nice to see Jeep make ALL models truly trailworthy, then aim
them at the different market segments so they might have enough sales
volume to either survive or keep the price of a basic Wrangler from
hitting $100K As for off road, a Range Rover with ride height
control may not be as fast in a straight line or in the twisties as an
SRT8 Cherokee, but I'd bet it would get more than 20 feet off the
Interstate and be able to get back...unlike the SRT8. Too bad Mercedes
doesn't have a good ride height control technology, at least that way
the Grands could have decent on road cruising and still have some
illusion of being at least moderate trail ready.
Personally I'd like to see the non-trail models go away, but have no
problem with something like an SRT6 Wrangler or SRT8 Grand that has a
suspension that would allow it to survive all but possibly the most hard
core trails. Street rods have done a lot for a lot lesser makes, e.g.
the 396 and secret 427 El Caminos that were otherwise a piece of crap.
#193
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: D-C might become just D and C.
Nathan In Montana proclaimed:
> "Bill Kearney" <wkearney-99@hot-mail-com> wrote in message
> news:o8idnX4f0JLRpErYnZ2dnUVZ_qyjnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>>when they water down their name by using it to sell
>>>soft-roaders they also water down their heritage.
>>
>>That's just sentimental --------. If they stop selling actual off-roader
>>then there'd be a problem of "heritage". But meanwhile they're selling
>>units to keep revenues up so they can also make the off-roaders. Can't
>>have
>>one without the other and this has been true for quite a while.
>
>
> one problem with your theory. the soft-roaders arent selling.
>
Thats mostly because they suck compared to cute soft roaders from other
makers. Seems folks CAN spot a counterfeit attempting to cash in on a
brand name without the creds.
> "Bill Kearney" <wkearney-99@hot-mail-com> wrote in message
> news:o8idnX4f0JLRpErYnZ2dnUVZ_qyjnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>>when they water down their name by using it to sell
>>>soft-roaders they also water down their heritage.
>>
>>That's just sentimental --------. If they stop selling actual off-roader
>>then there'd be a problem of "heritage". But meanwhile they're selling
>>units to keep revenues up so they can also make the off-roaders. Can't
>>have
>>one without the other and this has been true for quite a while.
>
>
> one problem with your theory. the soft-roaders arent selling.
>
Thats mostly because they suck compared to cute soft roaders from other
makers. Seems folks CAN spot a counterfeit attempting to cash in on a
brand name without the creds.
#194
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: D-C might become just D and C.
Nathan In Montana proclaimed:
> "Bill Kearney" <wkearney-99@hot-mail-com> wrote in message
> news:o8idnX4f0JLRpErYnZ2dnUVZ_qyjnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>>when they water down their name by using it to sell
>>>soft-roaders they also water down their heritage.
>>
>>That's just sentimental --------. If they stop selling actual off-roader
>>then there'd be a problem of "heritage". But meanwhile they're selling
>>units to keep revenues up so they can also make the off-roaders. Can't
>>have
>>one without the other and this has been true for quite a while.
>
>
> one problem with your theory. the soft-roaders arent selling.
>
Thats mostly because they suck compared to cute soft roaders from other
makers. Seems folks CAN spot a counterfeit attempting to cash in on a
brand name without the creds.
> "Bill Kearney" <wkearney-99@hot-mail-com> wrote in message
> news:o8idnX4f0JLRpErYnZ2dnUVZ_qyjnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>>when they water down their name by using it to sell
>>>soft-roaders they also water down their heritage.
>>
>>That's just sentimental --------. If they stop selling actual off-roader
>>then there'd be a problem of "heritage". But meanwhile they're selling
>>units to keep revenues up so they can also make the off-roaders. Can't
>>have
>>one without the other and this has been true for quite a while.
>
>
> one problem with your theory. the soft-roaders arent selling.
>
Thats mostly because they suck compared to cute soft roaders from other
makers. Seems folks CAN spot a counterfeit attempting to cash in on a
brand name without the creds.
#195
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: D-C might become just D and C.
Nathan In Montana proclaimed:
> "Bill Kearney" <wkearney-99@hot-mail-com> wrote in message
> news:o8idnX4f0JLRpErYnZ2dnUVZ_qyjnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>>when they water down their name by using it to sell
>>>soft-roaders they also water down their heritage.
>>
>>That's just sentimental --------. If they stop selling actual off-roader
>>then there'd be a problem of "heritage". But meanwhile they're selling
>>units to keep revenues up so they can also make the off-roaders. Can't
>>have
>>one without the other and this has been true for quite a while.
>
>
> one problem with your theory. the soft-roaders arent selling.
>
Thats mostly because they suck compared to cute soft roaders from other
makers. Seems folks CAN spot a counterfeit attempting to cash in on a
brand name without the creds.
> "Bill Kearney" <wkearney-99@hot-mail-com> wrote in message
> news:o8idnX4f0JLRpErYnZ2dnUVZ_qyjnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>>when they water down their name by using it to sell
>>>soft-roaders they also water down their heritage.
>>
>>That's just sentimental --------. If they stop selling actual off-roader
>>then there'd be a problem of "heritage". But meanwhile they're selling
>>units to keep revenues up so they can also make the off-roaders. Can't
>>have
>>one without the other and this has been true for quite a while.
>
>
> one problem with your theory. the soft-roaders arent selling.
>
Thats mostly because they suck compared to cute soft roaders from other
makers. Seems folks CAN spot a counterfeit attempting to cash in on a
brand name without the creds.
#196
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: D-C might become just D and C
The same discussion allows that hell will freeze over before the UAW
would allow anyone to even just buy the name without dealing with them
first. They've offered concessions to GM and Ford, but apparently have
a real hard on for DC management.
Earle Horton proclaimed:
> What I saw on the network news is that you have to pay U.S. autoworkers too
> much, to be able to make the cars cheaply enough, so that the same U.S.
> workers will buy them. I don't get how you can fix this, by having some
> other investor buy the company.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:F8mdnQADcf3JOknYnZ2dnUVZ_uejnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
>>Nope, probably won't happen. Neither GM nor Ford is in a financial
>
> position
>
>>to acquire Chrysler, even though it's a good deal right now.
>>
>>I'd guess if D-C sold off Chrysler, it might be purchased by a Chinese
>>manufacturer to get a boost in American market share. That will be a sad
>
> day
>
>>if it ever happens.
>>
>>"Coasty" <uscg_ret@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:B6GdnUTKTO0xq0nYnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@comcast.co m...
>>
>>>ABC this morning said GM is look into acquiring Chrysler and combining
>>>their design facilities.
>>>
>>>Coasty
>>>
>>>"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0702141652560.2921@panix2.pa nix.com...
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...kmg&refer=home
>
>>>>Selected highlights:
>>>>
>>>><q> DaimlerChrysler AG may sell or seek partners for its unprofitable
>>>>Chrysler division, abandoning its vision of building a successful
>>>>carmaker that sold luxury Mercedes-Benz sedans as well as Dodge pickup
>>>>trucks.</q>
>>>>
>>>><q>``We want to ensure that the core of Daimler can be protected from a
>>>>possible financial downwards spiral at Chrysler,'</q>
>>>>
>>>><q> Renault and Nissan may be a possible partner for Chrysler, </q>
>>>>
>>>><q> Former Chief Executive Schrempp was heckled at most of the annual
>>>>meetings by investors who demanded he sell the division.</q>
>>>>
>>>><q> DaimlerChrysler is in talks with General Motors to sell Chrysler to
>>>>the world's largest carmaker, Manager Magazine reported, citing
>>>>unidentified company sources. The talks are at ``an early stage,'' it
>>>>said. </q>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>"We began to realize, as we plowed on with the destruction of New
>
> Jersey,
>
>>>>that the extent of our American lunatic fringe had been
>
> underestimated."
>
>>>>Orson Wells on the reaction to the _War Of The Worlds_ broadcast.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
#197
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: D-C might become just D and C
The same discussion allows that hell will freeze over before the UAW
would allow anyone to even just buy the name without dealing with them
first. They've offered concessions to GM and Ford, but apparently have
a real hard on for DC management.
Earle Horton proclaimed:
> What I saw on the network news is that you have to pay U.S. autoworkers too
> much, to be able to make the cars cheaply enough, so that the same U.S.
> workers will buy them. I don't get how you can fix this, by having some
> other investor buy the company.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:F8mdnQADcf3JOknYnZ2dnUVZ_uejnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
>>Nope, probably won't happen. Neither GM nor Ford is in a financial
>
> position
>
>>to acquire Chrysler, even though it's a good deal right now.
>>
>>I'd guess if D-C sold off Chrysler, it might be purchased by a Chinese
>>manufacturer to get a boost in American market share. That will be a sad
>
> day
>
>>if it ever happens.
>>
>>"Coasty" <uscg_ret@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:B6GdnUTKTO0xq0nYnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@comcast.co m...
>>
>>>ABC this morning said GM is look into acquiring Chrysler and combining
>>>their design facilities.
>>>
>>>Coasty
>>>
>>>"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0702141652560.2921@panix2.pa nix.com...
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...kmg&refer=home
>
>>>>Selected highlights:
>>>>
>>>><q> DaimlerChrysler AG may sell or seek partners for its unprofitable
>>>>Chrysler division, abandoning its vision of building a successful
>>>>carmaker that sold luxury Mercedes-Benz sedans as well as Dodge pickup
>>>>trucks.</q>
>>>>
>>>><q>``We want to ensure that the core of Daimler can be protected from a
>>>>possible financial downwards spiral at Chrysler,'</q>
>>>>
>>>><q> Renault and Nissan may be a possible partner for Chrysler, </q>
>>>>
>>>><q> Former Chief Executive Schrempp was heckled at most of the annual
>>>>meetings by investors who demanded he sell the division.</q>
>>>>
>>>><q> DaimlerChrysler is in talks with General Motors to sell Chrysler to
>>>>the world's largest carmaker, Manager Magazine reported, citing
>>>>unidentified company sources. The talks are at ``an early stage,'' it
>>>>said. </q>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>"We began to realize, as we plowed on with the destruction of New
>
> Jersey,
>
>>>>that the extent of our American lunatic fringe had been
>
> underestimated."
>
>>>>Orson Wells on the reaction to the _War Of The Worlds_ broadcast.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
#198
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: D-C might become just D and C
The same discussion allows that hell will freeze over before the UAW
would allow anyone to even just buy the name without dealing with them
first. They've offered concessions to GM and Ford, but apparently have
a real hard on for DC management.
Earle Horton proclaimed:
> What I saw on the network news is that you have to pay U.S. autoworkers too
> much, to be able to make the cars cheaply enough, so that the same U.S.
> workers will buy them. I don't get how you can fix this, by having some
> other investor buy the company.
>
> Earle
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:F8mdnQADcf3JOknYnZ2dnUVZ_uejnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
>>Nope, probably won't happen. Neither GM nor Ford is in a financial
>
> position
>
>>to acquire Chrysler, even though it's a good deal right now.
>>
>>I'd guess if D-C sold off Chrysler, it might be purchased by a Chinese
>>manufacturer to get a boost in American market share. That will be a sad
>
> day
>
>>if it ever happens.
>>
>>"Coasty" <uscg_ret@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:B6GdnUTKTO0xq0nYnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@comcast.co m...
>>
>>>ABC this morning said GM is look into acquiring Chrysler and combining
>>>their design facilities.
>>>
>>>Coasty
>>>
>>>"Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0702141652560.2921@panix2.pa nix.com...
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...kmg&refer=home
>
>>>>Selected highlights:
>>>>
>>>><q> DaimlerChrysler AG may sell or seek partners for its unprofitable
>>>>Chrysler division, abandoning its vision of building a successful
>>>>carmaker that sold luxury Mercedes-Benz sedans as well as Dodge pickup
>>>>trucks.</q>
>>>>
>>>><q>``We want to ensure that the core of Daimler can be protected from a
>>>>possible financial downwards spiral at Chrysler,'</q>
>>>>
>>>><q> Renault and Nissan may be a possible partner for Chrysler, </q>
>>>>
>>>><q> Former Chief Executive Schrempp was heckled at most of the annual
>>>>meetings by investors who demanded he sell the division.</q>
>>>>
>>>><q> DaimlerChrysler is in talks with General Motors to sell Chrysler to
>>>>the world's largest carmaker, Manager Magazine reported, citing
>>>>unidentified company sources. The talks are at ``an early stage,'' it
>>>>said. </q>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>"We began to realize, as we plowed on with the destruction of New
>
> Jersey,
>
>>>>that the extent of our American lunatic fringe had been
>
> underestimated."
>
>>>>Orson Wells on the reaction to the _War Of The Worlds_ broadcast.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
#199
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: D-C might become just D and C
Highcountry proclaimed:
> How about the new 2008 Jeep "Fat Boy"???
>
> Harley Davidson could buy JUST the Jeep group and jettison the newer
> B.S. products, then take Jeep back to their real Jeep roots that the
> Germans disolved while trying to make a buck. I am not exactly a
> Harley fan, but they DO have "some" patriotism left in their company!
Harley in my opinion might not be a bad idea. They may have too much
involvement with Ford to convince bankers, but not fixing things that
aren't broken does appear to be their business strategy.
> How about the new 2008 Jeep "Fat Boy"???
>
> Harley Davidson could buy JUST the Jeep group and jettison the newer
> B.S. products, then take Jeep back to their real Jeep roots that the
> Germans disolved while trying to make a buck. I am not exactly a
> Harley fan, but they DO have "some" patriotism left in their company!
Harley in my opinion might not be a bad idea. They may have too much
involvement with Ford to convince bankers, but not fixing things that
aren't broken does appear to be their business strategy.
#200
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: D-C might become just D and C
Highcountry proclaimed:
> How about the new 2008 Jeep "Fat Boy"???
>
> Harley Davidson could buy JUST the Jeep group and jettison the newer
> B.S. products, then take Jeep back to their real Jeep roots that the
> Germans disolved while trying to make a buck. I am not exactly a
> Harley fan, but they DO have "some" patriotism left in their company!
Harley in my opinion might not be a bad idea. They may have too much
involvement with Ford to convince bankers, but not fixing things that
aren't broken does appear to be their business strategy.
> How about the new 2008 Jeep "Fat Boy"???
>
> Harley Davidson could buy JUST the Jeep group and jettison the newer
> B.S. products, then take Jeep back to their real Jeep roots that the
> Germans disolved while trying to make a buck. I am not exactly a
> Harley fan, but they DO have "some" patriotism left in their company!
Harley in my opinion might not be a bad idea. They may have too much
involvement with Ford to convince bankers, but not fixing things that
aren't broken does appear to be their business strategy.