Chrome intake with K&N
08-13-2006, 01:49 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
On the WJ it is alongside the driver's headlight at a height of 36" on a
stock suspension.
When going off-road you can pull this off and rotate it upward so it is now
at the height of the top of the airbox.or attach an air hose and relocate
the intake to the rear of the engine compartment.
At a local off-road rally last month a local Jeeper couple tried to see how
fast they could cross a water hazard and hydro-locked their motor.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44DF6232.911A7BD9@sympatico.ca...
> You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
> and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
> you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
> bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
>
> I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
> routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
>
> Others didn't know they had it and oops...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
>> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
>> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
>> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
>> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
>> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
>> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
>> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
>> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
>> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
>> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
>> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
>> rodders thought was a good idea.
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> > paper filter.
>> >
>> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>> >
>> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
>> > would be
>> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
>> > into
>> > the throttle body.
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried this?
>> >
>> >
>> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> >
>> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
>> >>have
>> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> >>performance of my engine.
>> >>
>> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>> >>
>> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>> >>
>> >>Mike
>> >>
>> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Hi Mike,
>> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>> >>>engine's breathing.
>> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>> >>>>passes dust through.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>> >>>>paper filters.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>> >>>>there
>> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
>> >>>>wear,
>> >>>>maybe....
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Just my $0.02,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Mike
>> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >
>> >
>> >
stock suspension.
When going off-road you can pull this off and rotate it upward so it is now
at the height of the top of the airbox.or attach an air hose and relocate
the intake to the rear of the engine compartment.
At a local off-road rally last month a local Jeeper couple tried to see how
fast they could cross a water hazard and hydro-locked their motor.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44DF6232.911A7BD9@sympatico.ca...
> You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
> and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
> you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
> bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
>
> I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
> routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
>
> Others didn't know they had it and oops...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
>> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
>> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
>> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
>> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
>> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
>> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
>> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
>> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
>> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
>> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
>> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
>> rodders thought was a good idea.
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> > paper filter.
>> >
>> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>> >
>> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
>> > would be
>> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
>> > into
>> > the throttle body.
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried this?
>> >
>> >
>> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> >
>> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
>> >>have
>> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> >>performance of my engine.
>> >>
>> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>> >>
>> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>> >>
>> >>Mike
>> >>
>> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Hi Mike,
>> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>> >>>engine's breathing.
>> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>> >>>>passes dust through.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>> >>>>paper filters.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>> >>>>there
>> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
>> >>>>wear,
>> >>>>maybe....
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Just my $0.02,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Mike
>> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >
>> >
>> >
08-13-2006, 01:51 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
> temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> idea.
>
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> paper filter.
>>
>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>
>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>
>> Has anyone tried this?
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>
>>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>performance of my engine.
>>>
>>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>
>>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Mike,
>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>engine's breathing.
>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>
>>>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>passes dust through.
>>>>>
>>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>paper filters.
>>>>>
>>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>maybe....
>>>>>
>>>>>Just my $0.02,
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
> temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> idea.
>
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> paper filter.
>>
>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>
>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>
>> Has anyone tried this?
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>
>>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>performance of my engine.
>>>
>>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>
>>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Mike,
>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>engine's breathing.
>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>
>>>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>passes dust through.
>>>>>
>>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>paper filters.
>>>>>
>>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>maybe....
>>>>>
>>>>>Just my $0.02,
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
08-13-2006, 01:51 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
> temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> idea.
>
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> paper filter.
>>
>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>
>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>
>> Has anyone tried this?
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>
>>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>performance of my engine.
>>>
>>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>
>>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Mike,
>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>engine's breathing.
>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>
>>>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>passes dust through.
>>>>>
>>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>paper filters.
>>>>>
>>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>maybe....
>>>>>
>>>>>Just my $0.02,
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
> temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> idea.
>
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> paper filter.
>>
>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>
>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>
>> Has anyone tried this?
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>
>>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>performance of my engine.
>>>
>>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>
>>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Mike,
>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>engine's breathing.
>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>
>>>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>passes dust through.
>>>>>
>>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>paper filters.
>>>>>
>>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>maybe....
>>>>>
>>>>>Just my $0.02,
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
08-13-2006, 01:51 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
> temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> idea.
>
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> paper filter.
>>
>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>
>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>
>> Has anyone tried this?
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>
>>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>performance of my engine.
>>>
>>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>
>>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Mike,
>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>engine's breathing.
>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>
>>>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>passes dust through.
>>>>>
>>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>paper filters.
>>>>>
>>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>maybe....
>>>>>
>>>>>Just my $0.02,
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
> temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> idea.
>
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> paper filter.
>>
>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>
>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>
>> Has anyone tried this?
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>
>>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>performance of my engine.
>>>
>>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>
>>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Mike,
>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>engine's breathing.
>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>
>>>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>passes dust through.
>>>>>
>>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>paper filters.
>>>>>
>>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>maybe....
>>>>>
>>>>>Just my $0.02,
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
08-13-2006, 01:51 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
> temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> idea.
>
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> paper filter.
>>
>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>
>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>
>> Has anyone tried this?
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>
>>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>performance of my engine.
>>>
>>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>
>>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Mike,
>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>engine's breathing.
>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>
>>>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>passes dust through.
>>>>>
>>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>paper filters.
>>>>>
>>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>maybe....
>>>>>
>>>>>Just my $0.02,
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
> temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> idea.
>
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> paper filter.
>>
>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>
>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>
>> Has anyone tried this?
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>
>>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>performance of my engine.
>>>
>>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>
>>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Mike,
>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>engine's breathing.
>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>
>>>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>passes dust through.
>>>>>
>>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>paper filters.
>>>>>
>>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>maybe....
>>>>>
>>>>>Just my $0.02,
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>>
08-13-2006, 04:17 PM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
When I put the K&N in my Cobra, I immediately noticed a difference in the
way the car 'breathed'.
It was as if I had taken a pillow off of it's face.
I won't put one on my Jeep though.
I hated the maintenence BS with the K&N, it's a real mess cleaning them and
the cleaning kit is around $30
I'd rather just change the paper filter than mess with the K&N
Kate
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:b6786$44df5340$48311eaf$11208@FUSE.NET...
>I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>paper filter.
>
> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>
> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
> into the throttle body.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> performance of my engine.
>>
>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>
>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>> engine's breathing.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>> > passes dust through.
>>> >
>>> > I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>> > paper filters.
>>> >
>>> > Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>>> > there
>>> > is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>> > back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>> > maybe....
>>> >
>>> > Just my $0.02,
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
way the car 'breathed'.
It was as if I had taken a pillow off of it's face.
I won't put one on my Jeep though.
I hated the maintenence BS with the K&N, it's a real mess cleaning them and
the cleaning kit is around $30
I'd rather just change the paper filter than mess with the K&N
Kate
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:b6786$44df5340$48311eaf$11208@FUSE.NET...
>I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>paper filter.
>
> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>
> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
> into the throttle body.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> performance of my engine.
>>
>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>
>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>> engine's breathing.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>> > passes dust through.
>>> >
>>> > I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>> > paper filters.
>>> >
>>> > Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>>> > there
>>> > is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>> > back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>> > maybe....
>>> >
>>> > Just my $0.02,
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
08-13-2006, 04:17 PM
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
When I put the K&N in my Cobra, I immediately noticed a difference in the
way the car 'breathed'.
It was as if I had taken a pillow off of it's face.
I won't put one on my Jeep though.
I hated the maintenence BS with the K&N, it's a real mess cleaning them and
the cleaning kit is around $30
I'd rather just change the paper filter than mess with the K&N
Kate
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:b6786$44df5340$48311eaf$11208@FUSE.NET...
>I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>paper filter.
>
> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>
> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
> into the throttle body.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> performance of my engine.
>>
>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>
>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>> engine's breathing.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>> > passes dust through.
>>> >
>>> > I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>> > paper filters.
>>> >
>>> > Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>>> > there
>>> > is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>> > back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>> > maybe....
>>> >
>>> > Just my $0.02,
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
way the car 'breathed'.
It was as if I had taken a pillow off of it's face.
I won't put one on my Jeep though.
I hated the maintenence BS with the K&N, it's a real mess cleaning them and
the cleaning kit is around $30
I'd rather just change the paper filter than mess with the K&N
Kate
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:b6786$44df5340$48311eaf$11208@FUSE.NET...
>I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>paper filter.
>
> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>
> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
> into the throttle body.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> performance of my engine.
>>
>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>
>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>> engine's breathing.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>> > passes dust through.
>>> >
>>> > I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>> > paper filters.
>>> >
>>> > Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>>> > there
>>> > is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>> > back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>> > maybe....
>>> >
>>> > Just my $0.02,
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
08-13-2006, 04:17 PM
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
When I put the K&N in my Cobra, I immediately noticed a difference in the
way the car 'breathed'.
It was as if I had taken a pillow off of it's face.
I won't put one on my Jeep though.
I hated the maintenence BS with the K&N, it's a real mess cleaning them and
the cleaning kit is around $30
I'd rather just change the paper filter than mess with the K&N
Kate
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:b6786$44df5340$48311eaf$11208@FUSE.NET...
>I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>paper filter.
>
> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>
> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
> into the throttle body.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> performance of my engine.
>>
>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>
>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>> engine's breathing.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>> > passes dust through.
>>> >
>>> > I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>> > paper filters.
>>> >
>>> > Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>>> > there
>>> > is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>> > back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>> > maybe....
>>> >
>>> > Just my $0.02,
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
way the car 'breathed'.
It was as if I had taken a pillow off of it's face.
I won't put one on my Jeep though.
I hated the maintenence BS with the K&N, it's a real mess cleaning them and
the cleaning kit is around $30
I'd rather just change the paper filter than mess with the K&N
Kate
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:b6786$44df5340$48311eaf$11208@FUSE.NET...
>I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>paper filter.
>
> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>
> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
> into the throttle body.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> performance of my engine.
>>
>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>
>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>> engine's breathing.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>> > passes dust through.
>>> >
>>> > I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>> > paper filters.
>>> >
>>> > Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>>> > there
>>> > is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>> > back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>> > maybe....
>>> >
>>> > Just my $0.02,
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
08-13-2006, 04:17 PM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
When I put the K&N in my Cobra, I immediately noticed a difference in the
way the car 'breathed'.
It was as if I had taken a pillow off of it's face.
I won't put one on my Jeep though.
I hated the maintenence BS with the K&N, it's a real mess cleaning them and
the cleaning kit is around $30
I'd rather just change the paper filter than mess with the K&N
Kate
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:b6786$44df5340$48311eaf$11208@FUSE.NET...
>I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>paper filter.
>
> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>
> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
> into the throttle body.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> performance of my engine.
>>
>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>
>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>> engine's breathing.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>> > passes dust through.
>>> >
>>> > I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>> > paper filters.
>>> >
>>> > Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>>> > there
>>> > is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>> > back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>> > maybe....
>>> >
>>> > Just my $0.02,
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
way the car 'breathed'.
It was as if I had taken a pillow off of it's face.
I won't put one on my Jeep though.
I hated the maintenence BS with the K&N, it's a real mess cleaning them and
the cleaning kit is around $30
I'd rather just change the paper filter than mess with the K&N
Kate
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:b6786$44df5340$48311eaf$11208@FUSE.NET...
>I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>paper filter.
>
> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>
> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
> into the throttle body.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> performance of my engine.
>>
>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>
>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>> engine's breathing.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>> > passes dust through.
>>> >
>>> > I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>> > paper filters.
>>> >
>>> > Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>>> > there
>>> > is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>> > back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>> > maybe....
>>> >
>>> > Just my $0.02,
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
08-13-2006, 07:04 PM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Turbo City's Rock-It! air tube gets it from right on top of the valve cover.
In city traffic it can get hot up there, but it must be cool enough going
down the highway. I am getting 25 mpg in my four cylinder 1995 Wrangler.
One of the things we learned in science and engineering courses was not to
put too much weight in unverified theoretical predictions.
Earle
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:64c71$44df67b4$48311eaf$23103@FUSE.NET...
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >
> > Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> > their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
is
> > also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> > supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> > functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> > pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
cruising
> > performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors
to
> > a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> > local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the
lowest
> > temperature and highest pressure available.
> >
> > The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
at
> > higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
boundary
> > layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and
such
> > are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth
is
> > actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a
smooth
> > wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> > than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> > idea.
> >
> >
> > billy ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> >> paper filter.
> >>
> >> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> >> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >>
> >> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> >> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> >> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
would
> >> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
> >> airflow into the throttle body.
> >>
> >> Has anyone tried this?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >>
> >>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
have
> >>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>>performance of my engine.
> >>>
> >>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>>
> >>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>>
> >>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hi Mike,
> >>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>>engine's breathing.
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>>paper filters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
there
> >>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
wear,
> >>>>>maybe....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mike
> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>
> >>
>
In city traffic it can get hot up there, but it must be cool enough going
down the highway. I am getting 25 mpg in my four cylinder 1995 Wrangler.
One of the things we learned in science and engineering courses was not to
put too much weight in unverified theoretical predictions.
Earle
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:64c71$44df67b4$48311eaf$23103@FUSE.NET...
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >
> > Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> > their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
is
> > also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> > supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> > functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> > pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
cruising
> > performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors
to
> > a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> > local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the
lowest
> > temperature and highest pressure available.
> >
> > The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
at
> > higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
boundary
> > layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and
such
> > are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth
is
> > actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a
smooth
> > wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> > than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> > idea.
> >
> >
> > billy ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> >> paper filter.
> >>
> >> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> >> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >>
> >> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> >> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> >> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
would
> >> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
> >> airflow into the throttle body.
> >>
> >> Has anyone tried this?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >>
> >>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
have
> >>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>>performance of my engine.
> >>>
> >>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>>
> >>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>>
> >>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hi Mike,
> >>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>>engine's breathing.
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>>paper filters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
there
> >>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
wear,
> >>>>>maybe....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mike
> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>
> >>
>
