The only good that can come of this tragedy is that 1) Rep. Scott McInnis
"Healthy Forests Initiative" will be passed by Congress *without more
obstruction from the green-baiting Democrats) and 2) the environmental
community will get their well deserved comeuppance for having spent years
blocking any attempt to treat the forests before stuff like this happens.

Here in Durango, CO we had a massive wildfire last year that burned for 4
weeks. The environmentalists used the courts to block every attempt to thin
the incredible overgrowth in the San Juan National Forest. When it exploded
no one was surprised, and the environmentalists went and hid.Their next
moves were to attempt to block several BLM management plans on adjacent
acreage near subdivisions, then they tried to stop all salvage logging of
the burnt timber, preferring that the entire areas be closed to all access
for decades due to unsafe conditions.

The Feds are not responding responsibly to the clear an present danger that
exists in Western forests. Again, our thoughts are with all of the folks in
Southern California. An incredible disaster that didn't have to happen if
people of common sense could just be allowed to do their jobs.

"Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
news:sTEob.73049$HS4.635988@attbi_s01...
> Approximately 10/31/03 18:21, Will Honea uttered for posterity:
>
> > We have a C-130 reserve outfit here in Colorado Springs with something
> > like 6 birds equipped with drop kits and crews trained to handle them.
> > There are 2 problems that need to be kept in mind, tho. The first is
> > that the local fire commander has to request them - that's a human
> > problem with no ready solution. The other problem is a 1930's era
> > federal law that prohibits the use of militarty resources until all
> > civilian commercial resources are exhausted. Talking to some of the
> > pilots here, that seems to be a huge problem. The time for a request
> > to clear the buracracy seems to be measured in days while the response
> > time of the crews and the equipment was something like 4 hours from
> > 'Go' in Colorado to dropping retardant in California. One more way
> > your friendly government looks out for you...
>
> Latest is that copies of the written request to the fed gov't to
> allocate FEMA funds to get rid of the massive dead trees in a
> couple of the fire areas *before* the fires started are now
> surfacing. A mere few hundred million in FEMA funds allegedly
> could have prevented a few billion in damages, plus unfortunately
> the deaths.
>
> --
> My governor can kick your governor's ***
>

 

The only good that can come of this tragedy is that 1) Rep. Scott McInnis
"Healthy Forests Initiative" will be passed by Congress *without more
obstruction from the green-baiting Democrats) and 2) the environmental
community will get their well deserved comeuppance for having spent years
blocking any attempt to treat the forests before stuff like this happens.

Here in Durango, CO we had a massive wildfire last year that burned for 4
weeks. The environmentalists used the courts to block every attempt to thin
the incredible overgrowth in the San Juan National Forest. When it exploded
no one was surprised, and the environmentalists went and hid.Their next
moves were to attempt to block several BLM management plans on adjacent
acreage near subdivisions, then they tried to stop all salvage logging of
the burnt timber, preferring that the entire areas be closed to all access
for decades due to unsafe conditions.

The Feds are not responding responsibly to the clear an present danger that
exists in Western forests. Again, our thoughts are with all of the folks in
Southern California. An incredible disaster that didn't have to happen if
people of common sense could just be allowed to do their jobs.

"Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
news:sTEob.73049$HS4.635988@attbi_s01...
> Approximately 10/31/03 18:21, Will Honea uttered for posterity:
>
> > We have a C-130 reserve outfit here in Colorado Springs with something
> > like 6 birds equipped with drop kits and crews trained to handle them.
> > There are 2 problems that need to be kept in mind, tho. The first is
> > that the local fire commander has to request them - that's a human
> > problem with no ready solution. The other problem is a 1930's era
> > federal law that prohibits the use of militarty resources until all
> > civilian commercial resources are exhausted. Talking to some of the
> > pilots here, that seems to be a huge problem. The time for a request
> > to clear the buracracy seems to be measured in days while the response
> > time of the crews and the equipment was something like 4 hours from
> > 'Go' in Colorado to dropping retardant in California. One more way
> > your friendly government looks out for you...
>
> Latest is that copies of the written request to the fed gov't to
> allocate FEMA funds to get rid of the massive dead trees in a
> couple of the fire areas *before* the fires started are now
> surfacing. A mere few hundred million in FEMA funds allegedly
> could have prevented a few billion in damages, plus unfortunately
> the deaths.
>
> --
> My governor can kick your governor's ***
>

 

It's ridiculous... truly ridiculous... to think California could have
cleaned out those millions of dead trees in the couple of months it was
since the request for funding to do so was sent to Washington. The outcome
would have been the same had it been approved because of the short time
involved. It's asinine and ridiculous to think they could have cut down
millions of dead trees in that time frame. Even if it had been approved,
Davis or some other bureaucrat would have likely either dragged their feet
starting the clearing or hijacked the money to give to some other pet
project.

Don't try some lame attempt to blame Washington D.C. on the outcome of the
fire.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
To email, remove 'me' from my email address
KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

"Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
news:sTEob.73049$HS4.635988@attbi_s01...
> Approximately 10/31/03 18:21, Will Honea uttered for posterity:
>
> > We have a C-130 reserve outfit here in Colorado Springs with something
> > like 6 birds equipped with drop kits and crews trained to handle them.
> > There are 2 problems that need to be kept in mind, tho. The first is
> > that the local fire commander has to request them - that's a human
> > problem with no ready solution. The other problem is a 1930's era
> > federal law that prohibits the use of militarty resources until all
> > civilian commercial resources are exhausted. Talking to some of the
> > pilots here, that seems to be a huge problem. The time for a request
> > to clear the buracracy seems to be measured in days while the response
> > time of the crews and the equipment was something like 4 hours from
> > 'Go' in Colorado to dropping retardant in California. One more way
> > your friendly government looks out for you...
>
> Latest is that copies of the written request to the fed gov't to
> allocate FEMA funds to get rid of the massive dead trees in a
> couple of the fire areas *before* the fires started are now
> surfacing. A mere few hundred million in FEMA funds allegedly
> could have prevented a few billion in damages, plus unfortunately
> the deaths.
>
> --
> My governor can kick your governor's ***
>

 

It's ridiculous... truly ridiculous... to think California could have
cleaned out those millions of dead trees in the couple of months it was
since the request for funding to do so was sent to Washington. The outcome
would have been the same had it been approved because of the short time
involved. It's asinine and ridiculous to think they could have cut down
millions of dead trees in that time frame. Even if it had been approved,
Davis or some other bureaucrat would have likely either dragged their feet
starting the clearing or hijacked the money to give to some other pet
project.

Don't try some lame attempt to blame Washington D.C. on the outcome of the
fire.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
To email, remove 'me' from my email address
KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

"Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
news:sTEob.73049$HS4.635988@attbi_s01...
> Approximately 10/31/03 18:21, Will Honea uttered for posterity:
>
> > We have a C-130 reserve outfit here in Colorado Springs with something
> > like 6 birds equipped with drop kits and crews trained to handle them.
> > There are 2 problems that need to be kept in mind, tho. The first is
> > that the local fire commander has to request them - that's a human
> > problem with no ready solution. The other problem is a 1930's era
> > federal law that prohibits the use of militarty resources until all
> > civilian commercial resources are exhausted. Talking to some of the
> > pilots here, that seems to be a huge problem. The time for a request
> > to clear the buracracy seems to be measured in days while the response
> > time of the crews and the equipment was something like 4 hours from
> > 'Go' in Colorado to dropping retardant in California. One more way
> > your friendly government looks out for you...
>
> Latest is that copies of the written request to the fed gov't to
> allocate FEMA funds to get rid of the massive dead trees in a
> couple of the fire areas *before* the fires started are now
> surfacing. A mere few hundred million in FEMA funds allegedly
> could have prevented a few billion in damages, plus unfortunately
> the deaths.
>
> --
> My governor can kick your governor's ***
>

 

It's ridiculous... truly ridiculous... to think California could have
cleaned out those millions of dead trees in the couple of months it was
since the request for funding to do so was sent to Washington. The outcome
would have been the same had it been approved because of the short time
involved. It's asinine and ridiculous to think they could have cut down
millions of dead trees in that time frame. Even if it had been approved,
Davis or some other bureaucrat would have likely either dragged their feet
starting the clearing or hijacked the money to give to some other pet
project.

Don't try some lame attempt to blame Washington D.C. on the outcome of the
fire.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
To email, remove 'me' from my email address
KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

"Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
news:sTEob.73049$HS4.635988@attbi_s01...
> Approximately 10/31/03 18:21, Will Honea uttered for posterity:
>
> > We have a C-130 reserve outfit here in Colorado Springs with something
> > like 6 birds equipped with drop kits and crews trained to handle them.
> > There are 2 problems that need to be kept in mind, tho. The first is
> > that the local fire commander has to request them - that's a human
> > problem with no ready solution. The other problem is a 1930's era
> > federal law that prohibits the use of militarty resources until all
> > civilian commercial resources are exhausted. Talking to some of the
> > pilots here, that seems to be a huge problem. The time for a request
> > to clear the buracracy seems to be measured in days while the response
> > time of the crews and the equipment was something like 4 hours from
> > 'Go' in Colorado to dropping retardant in California. One more way
> > your friendly government looks out for you...
>
> Latest is that copies of the written request to the fed gov't to
> allocate FEMA funds to get rid of the massive dead trees in a
> couple of the fire areas *before* the fires started are now
> surfacing. A mere few hundred million in FEMA funds allegedly
> could have prevented a few billion in damages, plus unfortunately
> the deaths.
>
> --
> My governor can kick your governor's ***
>

 

I blame the lack of rain and the windy conditions. Finger pointing shall
begin though, no matter what. I can only hope it turns out that we get a
better system in the long run. Thank god my family survived. I truly feel
sorry for the people who have lost property and even worse, loved ones. All
the finger pointing in the world wont change that.
KH

"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:XgJob.128996$gv5.11564@fed1read05...
> It's ridiculous... truly ridiculous... to think California could have
> cleaned out those millions of dead trees in the couple of months it was
> since the request for funding to do so was sent to Washington. The
outcome
> would have been the same had it been approved because of the short time
> involved. It's asinine and ridiculous to think they could have cut down
> millions of dead trees in that time frame. Even if it had been approved,
> Davis or some other bureaucrat would have likely either dragged their feet
> starting the clearing or hijacked the money to give to some other pet
> project.
>
> Don't try some lame attempt to blame Washington D.C. on the outcome of the
> fire.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
> news:sTEob.73049$HS4.635988@attbi_s01...
> > Approximately 10/31/03 18:21, Will Honea uttered for posterity:
> >
> > > We have a C-130 reserve outfit here in Colorado Springs with something
> > > like 6 birds equipped with drop kits and crews trained to handle them.
> > > There are 2 problems that need to be kept in mind, tho. The first is
> > > that the local fire commander has to request them - that's a human
> > > problem with no ready solution. The other problem is a 1930's era
> > > federal law that prohibits the use of militarty resources until all
> > > civilian commercial resources are exhausted. Talking to some of the
> > > pilots here, that seems to be a huge problem. The time for a request
> > > to clear the buracracy seems to be measured in days while the response
> > > time of the crews and the equipment was something like 4 hours from
> > > 'Go' in Colorado to dropping retardant in California. One more way
> > > your friendly government looks out for you...
> >
> > Latest is that copies of the written request to the fed gov't to
> > allocate FEMA funds to get rid of the massive dead trees in a
> > couple of the fire areas *before* the fires started are now
> > surfacing. A mere few hundred million in FEMA funds allegedly
> > could have prevented a few billion in damages, plus unfortunately
> > the deaths.
> >
> > --
> > My governor can kick your governor's ***
> >
>
>

 

I blame the lack of rain and the windy conditions. Finger pointing shall
begin though, no matter what. I can only hope it turns out that we get a
better system in the long run. Thank god my family survived. I truly feel
sorry for the people who have lost property and even worse, loved ones. All
the finger pointing in the world wont change that.
KH

"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:XgJob.128996$gv5.11564@fed1read05...
> It's ridiculous... truly ridiculous... to think California could have
> cleaned out those millions of dead trees in the couple of months it was
> since the request for funding to do so was sent to Washington. The
outcome
> would have been the same had it been approved because of the short time
> involved. It's asinine and ridiculous to think they could have cut down
> millions of dead trees in that time frame. Even if it had been approved,
> Davis or some other bureaucrat would have likely either dragged their feet
> starting the clearing or hijacked the money to give to some other pet
> project.
>
> Don't try some lame attempt to blame Washington D.C. on the outcome of the
> fire.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
> news:sTEob.73049$HS4.635988@attbi_s01...
> > Approximately 10/31/03 18:21, Will Honea uttered for posterity:
> >
> > > We have a C-130 reserve outfit here in Colorado Springs with something
> > > like 6 birds equipped with drop kits and crews trained to handle them.
> > > There are 2 problems that need to be kept in mind, tho. The first is
> > > that the local fire commander has to request them - that's a human
> > > problem with no ready solution. The other problem is a 1930's era
> > > federal law that prohibits the use of militarty resources until all
> > > civilian commercial resources are exhausted. Talking to some of the
> > > pilots here, that seems to be a huge problem. The time for a request
> > > to clear the buracracy seems to be measured in days while the response
> > > time of the crews and the equipment was something like 4 hours from
> > > 'Go' in Colorado to dropping retardant in California. One more way
> > > your friendly government looks out for you...
> >
> > Latest is that copies of the written request to the fed gov't to
> > allocate FEMA funds to get rid of the massive dead trees in a
> > couple of the fire areas *before* the fires started are now
> > surfacing. A mere few hundred million in FEMA funds allegedly
> > could have prevented a few billion in damages, plus unfortunately
> > the deaths.
> >
> > --
> > My governor can kick your governor's ***
> >
>
>

 

I blame the lack of rain and the windy conditions. Finger pointing shall
begin though, no matter what. I can only hope it turns out that we get a
better system in the long run. Thank god my family survived. I truly feel
sorry for the people who have lost property and even worse, loved ones. All
the finger pointing in the world wont change that.
KH

"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:XgJob.128996$gv5.11564@fed1read05...
> It's ridiculous... truly ridiculous... to think California could have
> cleaned out those millions of dead trees in the couple of months it was
> since the request for funding to do so was sent to Washington. The
outcome
> would have been the same had it been approved because of the short time
> involved. It's asinine and ridiculous to think they could have cut down
> millions of dead trees in that time frame. Even if it had been approved,
> Davis or some other bureaucrat would have likely either dragged their feet
> starting the clearing or hijacked the money to give to some other pet
> project.
>
> Don't try some lame attempt to blame Washington D.C. on the outcome of the
> fire.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Lon Stowell" <LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net> wrote in message
> news:sTEob.73049$HS4.635988@attbi_s01...
> > Approximately 10/31/03 18:21, Will Honea uttered for posterity:
> >
> > > We have a C-130 reserve outfit here in Colorado Springs with something
> > > like 6 birds equipped with drop kits and crews trained to handle them.
> > > There are 2 problems that need to be kept in mind, tho. The first is
> > > that the local fire commander has to request them - that's a human
> > > problem with no ready solution. The other problem is a 1930's era
> > > federal law that prohibits the use of militarty resources until all
> > > civilian commercial resources are exhausted. Talking to some of the
> > > pilots here, that seems to be a huge problem. The time for a request
> > > to clear the buracracy seems to be measured in days while the response
> > > time of the crews and the equipment was something like 4 hours from
> > > 'Go' in Colorado to dropping retardant in California. One more way
> > > your friendly government looks out for you...
> >
> > Latest is that copies of the written request to the fed gov't to
> > allocate FEMA funds to get rid of the massive dead trees in a
> > couple of the fire areas *before* the fires started are now
> > surfacing. A mere few hundred million in FEMA funds allegedly
> > could have prevented a few billion in damages, plus unfortunately
> > the deaths.
> >
> > --
> > My governor can kick your governor's ***
> >
>
>

 

The San Bernardino mountain fires have not only wiped out nearly a thousand
homes and killed four people, the burn area impacts nearly 50% of the jeep
trails in the San Bernardino National Forest. These trails will soon be
officially closed for several years while the forest regenerates, just like the
recently reopened White Mountain trail was closed after the fire there several
years ago.

Responsibility for the overgrowth and the infestation of the bark beetle which
exacerbated this inferno lies at the feet of the environmentalists, not any
perceived delay in obtaining federal funds for clearing dead trees.

It is well documented that at the early stages of the bark beetle infestation,
which began near Lake Arrowhead (where enviromentalist generated restrictions
on tree cutting increased the forest density from the normal 30-40 trees/acre
to 250-300 trees/acre),treatment with insecticides would have been tremendously
effective. However, outside pressure from the Sierra Club, Center for
Biological Diversity and other eco-groups, and inside pressure from enviro-
indoctrinated career foresters during the Clinton years, resulted in a Forest
Service prohibition of the use of those insecticides.
The environmentalists will never take responsibility for their part in creating
a bark beetle infestation that nearly killed an entire forest and created so
much fuel for the fire. Instead, they will be the ones blaming President Bush
for not providing enoungh money fast enough to cut down the dead trees before
they caught fire.

Wongheaded enviromentalism is ultimately the cause of the California wildfires
and a $2 billion loss to the local economy. We simply cannot afford the
greenies anymore

It is time for every one of us to support the Bush administration's Healthy
Forest Initiative in any way we can. Write to your senators and representatives
in Congress. Enlist the support of your friends and everyone you meet on the
trail. Donate money to the legal defense funds at the Blue Ribbon Coalition,
California Association of 4WD Clubs and CORVA. The survival of the forests
depends upon it, and so does our sport.

Robert Bills
Orange County CA

Jerry Bransford wrote:
>It's ridiculous... truly ridiculous... to think California could have
>cleaned out those millions of dead trees in the couple of months it was
>since the request for funding to do so was sent to Washington. The outcome
>would have been the same had it been approved because of the short time
>involved.

 

The San Bernardino mountain fires have not only wiped out nearly a thousand
homes and killed four people, the burn area impacts nearly 50% of the jeep
trails in the San Bernardino National Forest. These trails will soon be
officially closed for several years while the forest regenerates, just like the
recently reopened White Mountain trail was closed after the fire there several
years ago.

Responsibility for the overgrowth and the infestation of the bark beetle which
exacerbated this inferno lies at the feet of the environmentalists, not any
perceived delay in obtaining federal funds for clearing dead trees.

It is well documented that at the early stages of the bark beetle infestation,
which began near Lake Arrowhead (where enviromentalist generated restrictions
on tree cutting increased the forest density from the normal 30-40 trees/acre
to 250-300 trees/acre),treatment with insecticides would have been tremendously
effective. However, outside pressure from the Sierra Club, Center for
Biological Diversity and other eco-groups, and inside pressure from enviro-
indoctrinated career foresters during the Clinton years, resulted in a Forest
Service prohibition of the use of those insecticides.
The environmentalists will never take responsibility for their part in creating
a bark beetle infestation that nearly killed an entire forest and created so
much fuel for the fire. Instead, they will be the ones blaming President Bush
for not providing enoungh money fast enough to cut down the dead trees before
they caught fire.

Wongheaded enviromentalism is ultimately the cause of the California wildfires
and a $2 billion loss to the local economy. We simply cannot afford the
greenies anymore

It is time for every one of us to support the Bush administration's Healthy
Forest Initiative in any way we can. Write to your senators and representatives
in Congress. Enlist the support of your friends and everyone you meet on the
trail. Donate money to the legal defense funds at the Blue Ribbon Coalition,
California Association of 4WD Clubs and CORVA. The survival of the forests
depends upon it, and so does our sport.

Robert Bills
Orange County CA

Jerry Bransford wrote:
>It's ridiculous... truly ridiculous... to think California could have
>cleaned out those millions of dead trees in the couple of months it was
>since the request for funding to do so was sent to Washington. The outcome
>would have been the same had it been approved because of the short time
>involved.