CRWLR

I want to do something to help, but not get in the way at the same time.
While driving into the office (Rancho Bernardo - San Diego) this morning, I
heard a County Supervisor from the Harbison Canyon area -- and most or the
rural parts of the East County -- say that the communities have expressed
interest to her to begin the clean up operations. I live in Riverside County
but our local fire - the Mountain Fire between Temecula and Hemet - was
relatively small by comparison, and the clean up needs are not nearly so
great, nor is the devistation so wide. Yes, the devistation is great on a
family by family basis, but the sheer magnatude of the disaster is much
greater in San Diego.

As we all know, many families own multiple cars and trucks, and when these
families are evacuated, some of the cars and trucks get left behind to burn
along with the homes. These cars and trucks must be removed from properties
all over the community. This need has sparked an interest in me, and I need
some guys to show up and help out. My idea is to make contact with the
County Supervisor and offer our services to relocate these cars and trucks
from the variety of properties where they currently are, and drag them to a
central location for easier removal by the tow truck services. My thinking
is that the number of tow trucks and other equipment needed for the clean up
operations will be so large that they may have difficulty navigating the
communities, we can get into tight places and pull the burned out cars and
trucks to open areas, say at the end of the street or wherever.

I understand that there must be coodination to get the vehicles from the
current owner to the junkyards, and that sort of thing, but this is mostly a
logistical issue in the chain of ownership that can be kept organized with a
little forethought and planning.

I plan on calling the County Supervisor to volunteer the Jeep community from
around San Diego County to come out on Saturday to help out with this
effort. I would like to get as many people as I can to form up several teams
of three or four Jeeps that can go around and collect these cars and trucks
and take them to a central location within the community where the vehicle
owners can then arrange for the removal and take care of the insurance
issues and so on.

Everybody from the Jeep community that would like to help out, please stay
tuned here. Come back here to let me know if you can help out, and we can
exchange phone numbers, etc. offline via regular emails.

If you want to help, I would ask that you have tow hooks on both ends of
your Jeep, tow straps with loops sewn in the ends, and a length of safety
chain. When I have worked to recover abandoned vehicles from the local
watershed areas, I found that the vehicles frequently needed to have the
safety chain secured to the frame, then the tow strap connected to the
chain. The problem is the tow straps tied directly to the frame often
encountered sharp edges that cut the straps. Safety chains are generally
frowned upon in a recovery operation, but I think that they can safely be
employed here because the loads will be relatively low in most cases. I am
thinking that each team will need a safety chain of about 4 to 6 ft in
length, and a couple of good fasteners (D rings, etc.) to tie around the
frame of the vehicles that will provide a rounded edge for the tow straps to
tie-off on. Each Jeep should have a CB radio, but at least one Jeep in each
team is all that really needs a radio. I don't know how well the cell phones
will work where the fires have gone through.

It would be really cool if somebody among us has the logistical skills to
set up the storage lot and keep the vehicles organized so the owners can
keep track of their property that we will be moving about.

As of this moment, this is a plan that might not come together, but I would
ask that you pencil it onto your calendars, and then be prepared to ink it
at the drop of a hat. The clean up area that we will be going into will be
the rural areas south and east of El Cajon. Astually, the areas we wil be
needed is really up to the County Supervisor, and other higher level
planners. I have heard that Harbison Canyon is in need of clean up,
certainly there are other areas too.

At this point, all I am needing is a list of names that might be able to
help out if I can get us into the areas where we can be used.

Paul Calman

I noble idea, but it has a few problems.
Burned vehicles may need to be inspected by insurance companies where they
are, and then cleared by the county for removal.
Vehicles without tires will damage the ground, or pavement when dragged.
Erosion is going to be a major problem this winter.
Burned vehicles are still private property, and you dont want to assume the
liability of paying back fees, etc, by taking posession.
Whose insurance pays if you are hurt ?
There are probably many other issues that an attorney could tell you of.

That said, there are many people who have lost everything. I am sending a
few crates of clothing and toys down to my Dad for distribution, but these
people will mostly need shelter, and food.
Tents, motorhomes, and trailers could give these people a place to live.
Shipping containers could be easily converted into portable, temporary
housing by anyone with a sawzall or torch.
From what I have seen here, it can take 6 months or more before insurance
companies start sending out checks, so construction probably wont start
until mid 04 for most of them.
Inviting a homeless family into your home could be the most humane thing to
do.



--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

Paul Calman

I noble idea, but it has a few problems.
Burned vehicles may need to be inspected by insurance companies where they
are, and then cleared by the county for removal.
Vehicles without tires will damage the ground, or pavement when dragged.
Erosion is going to be a major problem this winter.
Burned vehicles are still private property, and you dont want to assume the
liability of paying back fees, etc, by taking posession.
Whose insurance pays if you are hurt ?
There are probably many other issues that an attorney could tell you of.

That said, there are many people who have lost everything. I am sending a
few crates of clothing and toys down to my Dad for distribution, but these
people will mostly need shelter, and food.
Tents, motorhomes, and trailers could give these people a place to live.
Shipping containers could be easily converted into portable, temporary
housing by anyone with a sawzall or torch.
From what I have seen here, it can take 6 months or more before insurance
companies start sending out checks, so construction probably wont start
until mid 04 for most of them.
Inviting a homeless family into your home could be the most humane thing to
do.



--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

Paul Calman

I noble idea, but it has a few problems.
Burned vehicles may need to be inspected by insurance companies where they
are, and then cleared by the county for removal.
Vehicles without tires will damage the ground, or pavement when dragged.
Erosion is going to be a major problem this winter.
Burned vehicles are still private property, and you dont want to assume the
liability of paying back fees, etc, by taking posession.
Whose insurance pays if you are hurt ?
There are probably many other issues that an attorney could tell you of.

That said, there are many people who have lost everything. I am sending a
few crates of clothing and toys down to my Dad for distribution, but these
people will mostly need shelter, and food.
Tents, motorhomes, and trailers could give these people a place to live.
Shipping containers could be easily converted into portable, temporary
housing by anyone with a sawzall or torch.
From what I have seen here, it can take 6 months or more before insurance
companies start sending out checks, so construction probably wont start
until mid 04 for most of them.
Inviting a homeless family into your home could be the most humane thing to
do.



--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

Paul Calman

another thought, i have seen nothing about finding long-term housing for
these refugees. The red cross and united way are fairly self-serving.
Perhaps someone down there could set up an "adopt a family" program?
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

Paul Calman

another thought, i have seen nothing about finding long-term housing for
these refugees. The red cross and united way are fairly self-serving.
Perhaps someone down there could set up an "adopt a family" program?
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

Paul Calman

another thought, i have seen nothing about finding long-term housing for
these refugees. The red cross and united way are fairly self-serving.
Perhaps someone down there could set up an "adopt a family" program?
--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

CRWLR

"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:bnri4s$13liej$1@ID-87669.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I noble idea, but it has a few problems.
> Burned vehicles may need to be inspected by insurance companies where they
> are, and then cleared by the county for removal.

This is perhaps the most critical factor. The insurance companies will want
to be involved, but they can probably walk around the impromptu storage yard
to look at the claims made against the vehicles. The county will already be
involved in the process, and it can take a few weeks for the removal to a
county authorized site to actualy occur. The community has said that they
need to have the cars and trucks removed from the yards, and this is where I
can help. I can move the property from where it is presenting problems and
reloacte it temporarily to another site where it can complete the removal
process.


> Vehicles without tires will damage the ground, or pavement when dragged.
> Erosion is going to be a major problem this winter.

Erosion will be probematic, for sure. But a few scratches in the ground from
dragging a vehicle a few hundred yards isn't going to change that problem
very much.


> Burned vehicles are still private property, and you dont want to assume
the
> liability of paying back fees, etc, by taking posession.

I am not taking possession. I am merely helping to clear a vehicle from a
site where it is a problem to another site where it is less of a problem.
The owner will still maintain ownership interest, and he will still be
making his insurance claims. I just think that it might be useful to the
community to have these vehicles moved off of the properties where they are
scattered about the community and placed on a few selected sites where the
insurance inspectors can do whatever they do. Remember, the claim is 100%,
there is no pretending that I will be moving a car or truck that might ever
be put back together.


> Whose insurance pays if you are hurt ?

I guess I will pay my own. We do this sort of thing all the time, and take
the risks associated with doing it.



> There are probably many other issues that an attorney could tell you of.
>

The County Supervisor is actively participating in the process, so I don't
think most of this will be a huge issue.

CRWLR

"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:bnri4s$13liej$1@ID-87669.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I noble idea, but it has a few problems.
> Burned vehicles may need to be inspected by insurance companies where they
> are, and then cleared by the county for removal.

This is perhaps the most critical factor. The insurance companies will want
to be involved, but they can probably walk around the impromptu storage yard
to look at the claims made against the vehicles. The county will already be
involved in the process, and it can take a few weeks for the removal to a
county authorized site to actualy occur. The community has said that they
need to have the cars and trucks removed from the yards, and this is where I
can help. I can move the property from where it is presenting problems and
reloacte it temporarily to another site where it can complete the removal
process.


> Vehicles without tires will damage the ground, or pavement when dragged.
> Erosion is going to be a major problem this winter.

Erosion will be probematic, for sure. But a few scratches in the ground from
dragging a vehicle a few hundred yards isn't going to change that problem
very much.


> Burned vehicles are still private property, and you dont want to assume
the
> liability of paying back fees, etc, by taking posession.

I am not taking possession. I am merely helping to clear a vehicle from a
site where it is a problem to another site where it is less of a problem.
The owner will still maintain ownership interest, and he will still be
making his insurance claims. I just think that it might be useful to the
community to have these vehicles moved off of the properties where they are
scattered about the community and placed on a few selected sites where the
insurance inspectors can do whatever they do. Remember, the claim is 100%,
there is no pretending that I will be moving a car or truck that might ever
be put back together.


> Whose insurance pays if you are hurt ?

I guess I will pay my own. We do this sort of thing all the time, and take
the risks associated with doing it.



> There are probably many other issues that an attorney could tell you of.
>

The County Supervisor is actively participating in the process, so I don't
think most of this will be a huge issue.

CRWLR

"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:bnri4s$13liej$1@ID-87669.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I noble idea, but it has a few problems.
> Burned vehicles may need to be inspected by insurance companies where they
> are, and then cleared by the county for removal.

This is perhaps the most critical factor. The insurance companies will want
to be involved, but they can probably walk around the impromptu storage yard
to look at the claims made against the vehicles. The county will already be
involved in the process, and it can take a few weeks for the removal to a
county authorized site to actualy occur. The community has said that they
need to have the cars and trucks removed from the yards, and this is where I
can help. I can move the property from where it is presenting problems and
reloacte it temporarily to another site where it can complete the removal
process.


> Vehicles without tires will damage the ground, or pavement when dragged.
> Erosion is going to be a major problem this winter.

Erosion will be probematic, for sure. But a few scratches in the ground from
dragging a vehicle a few hundred yards isn't going to change that problem
very much.


> Burned vehicles are still private property, and you dont want to assume
the
> liability of paying back fees, etc, by taking posession.

I am not taking possession. I am merely helping to clear a vehicle from a
site where it is a problem to another site where it is less of a problem.
The owner will still maintain ownership interest, and he will still be
making his insurance claims. I just think that it might be useful to the
community to have these vehicles moved off of the properties where they are
scattered about the community and placed on a few selected sites where the
insurance inspectors can do whatever they do. Remember, the claim is 100%,
there is no pretending that I will be moving a car or truck that might ever
be put back together.


> Whose insurance pays if you are hurt ?

I guess I will pay my own. We do this sort of thing all the time, and take
the risks associated with doing it.



> There are probably many other issues that an attorney could tell you of.
>

The County Supervisor is actively participating in the process, so I don't
think most of this will be a huge issue.