billy ray

NTB is a national chain composed of formerly prominent local chains
purchased by Sears. Sears spun off the chain in 2003 after years of
complaints including charges of defrauding 30 million customers by the New
Jersey Attorney General in 1999. Sears settled a similar suit in Florida.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...b_service.html

According to Sears most of the chains 3500 employees went to work for the
new owners.

Is it still 'business as usual?



"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4561BFDB.7B801892@sympatico.ca...
> When I had one recently go bad, the steering would 'jam' up when turning
> right not wanting to come back straight unless I overcorrected with the
> steering wheel, then it reached a 'hump' point and came back really
> fast.
>
> The joint had surprisingly little play, but there was enough that the
> grease boot had fallen off.
>
> If NTB is a chain store and the 'mechanic' is a 'real' one not one of
> these idiot technicians that only knows what a computer tells 'em, then
> I would believe the mechanic.
>
> Mike
>
> bspear78 wrote:
>>
>> So, sre there any symptoms of bad ball joints you can feel when
>> driving?? I have had NTB tell me I need new ones, and a local mechanic
>> tell me that they were fine. Dont know who to believe, maybe a third
>> opinion???
>> Will Honea wrote:
>> > On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 11:37:50 -0600, DougW wrote:
>> >
>> > > Mike Romain wrote:
>> > >> You can tell the shape of the ball joints 'usually' by using your
>> > >> eye
>> > >> and looking from the front or a level. If the tires are tilted out
>> > >> either at the bottom or top, you have one or more bad ball joints on
>> > >> that tire.
>> > >>
>> > >> Wandering can be from a worn tie rod end or even a sloppy u-joint on
>> > >> the steering column just by the firewall.
>> > >>
>> > >> You can lay under while someone pins the steering side to side while
>> > >> you watch all the moving joints for slop. Either side to side slop,
>> > >> or up and down slop.
>> > >>
>> > >> Not enough to in can also make it wander. You can check that with a
>> > >> tape measure as mentioned earlier.
>> > >
>> > > I'll also add that simply horking on the tire with your arms is not
>> > > enough force to make a worn balljoint move. Unless of course the
>> > > balljoint
>> > > is well and truly broken. Not even Hulk Hogan can put as much force
>> > > on the balljoints than your vehicle can in a turn.
>> > >
>> > > Replaced the inner tierod to drag link balljoint because it was
>> > > pointed
>> > > out to me by the folks at Tires Plus (had the ZJ in for a rotation
>> > > and
>> > > free check). The only way to detect the problem was to use "chassis
>> > > ears"
>> > > (electronic version of the mechanics stethoscope) and turn the wheels
>> > > under power while they were clamped down. Then you could defiantly
>> > > hear
>> > > the pop/sucking noise.
>> > >
>> > > End result is my ZJ became a lot more stable on the road. So much so
>> > > that I sat dumbfounded on how less than 3/100 of slop could make such
>> > > a difference. (Yes, I checked and the alignment didn't change) :)
>> > >
>> > > Reminds self: need to price that tool out. Very cool.
>> >
>> > You can pretty much the same result for free. Get a helper to sit
>> > behind
>> > the wheel. Slide under the front and wrap your hand around the tie rod
>> > ends. Have the helper turn the wheel back and forth - not too far,
>> > just
>> > to the point where they feel the full resistance. Any slop in the tie
>> > rod ends will be easily felt. Same thing works for any ball and socket
>> > setup, but the ball joints and the trackbar are a little hard to get
>> > hold
>> > of.

billy ray

NTB is a national chain composed of formerly prominent local chains
purchased by Sears. Sears spun off the chain in 2003 after years of
complaints including charges of defrauding 30 million customers by the New
Jersey Attorney General in 1999. Sears settled a similar suit in Florida.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...b_service.html

According to Sears most of the chains 3500 employees went to work for the
new owners.

Is it still 'business as usual?



"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4561BFDB.7B801892@sympatico.ca...
> When I had one recently go bad, the steering would 'jam' up when turning
> right not wanting to come back straight unless I overcorrected with the
> steering wheel, then it reached a 'hump' point and came back really
> fast.
>
> The joint had surprisingly little play, but there was enough that the
> grease boot had fallen off.
>
> If NTB is a chain store and the 'mechanic' is a 'real' one not one of
> these idiot technicians that only knows what a computer tells 'em, then
> I would believe the mechanic.
>
> Mike
>
> bspear78 wrote:
>>
>> So, sre there any symptoms of bad ball joints you can feel when
>> driving?? I have had NTB tell me I need new ones, and a local mechanic
>> tell me that they were fine. Dont know who to believe, maybe a third
>> opinion???
>> Will Honea wrote:
>> > On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 11:37:50 -0600, DougW wrote:
>> >
>> > > Mike Romain wrote:
>> > >> You can tell the shape of the ball joints 'usually' by using your
>> > >> eye
>> > >> and looking from the front or a level. If the tires are tilted out
>> > >> either at the bottom or top, you have one or more bad ball joints on
>> > >> that tire.
>> > >>
>> > >> Wandering can be from a worn tie rod end or even a sloppy u-joint on
>> > >> the steering column just by the firewall.
>> > >>
>> > >> You can lay under while someone pins the steering side to side while
>> > >> you watch all the moving joints for slop. Either side to side slop,
>> > >> or up and down slop.
>> > >>
>> > >> Not enough to in can also make it wander. You can check that with a
>> > >> tape measure as mentioned earlier.
>> > >
>> > > I'll also add that simply horking on the tire with your arms is not
>> > > enough force to make a worn balljoint move. Unless of course the
>> > > balljoint
>> > > is well and truly broken. Not even Hulk Hogan can put as much force
>> > > on the balljoints than your vehicle can in a turn.
>> > >
>> > > Replaced the inner tierod to drag link balljoint because it was
>> > > pointed
>> > > out to me by the folks at Tires Plus (had the ZJ in for a rotation
>> > > and
>> > > free check). The only way to detect the problem was to use "chassis
>> > > ears"
>> > > (electronic version of the mechanics stethoscope) and turn the wheels
>> > > under power while they were clamped down. Then you could defiantly
>> > > hear
>> > > the pop/sucking noise.
>> > >
>> > > End result is my ZJ became a lot more stable on the road. So much so
>> > > that I sat dumbfounded on how less than 3/100 of slop could make such
>> > > a difference. (Yes, I checked and the alignment didn't change) :)
>> > >
>> > > Reminds self: need to price that tool out. Very cool.
>> >
>> > You can pretty much the same result for free. Get a helper to sit
>> > behind
>> > the wheel. Slide under the front and wrap your hand around the tie rod
>> > ends. Have the helper turn the wheel back and forth - not too far,
>> > just
>> > to the point where they feel the full resistance. Any slop in the tie
>> > rod ends will be easily felt. Same thing works for any ball and socket
>> > setup, but the ball joints and the trackbar are a little hard to get
>> > hold
>> > of.

DougW

Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
> My XJ tracks straight and the wheels don't look tilted. The only
> thing it does weird is once in a while there is a sort of "chunk"
> that sounds like it's coming from the front, most often when backing
> up. There is no funny tire wear either.

Could be the brake pads moving about or a loose suspension bolt.
I had a series of pop-pop-pop-pop-pop every time I stopped or
accelerated. Turned out to be the top control arm bolt on the
driver side. Just wasn't tight enough and was slipping
just a teeny bit. Amazing how much noise it made for how little
room there is to move.

--
DougW

DougW

Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
> My XJ tracks straight and the wheels don't look tilted. The only
> thing it does weird is once in a while there is a sort of "chunk"
> that sounds like it's coming from the front, most often when backing
> up. There is no funny tire wear either.

Could be the brake pads moving about or a loose suspension bolt.
I had a series of pop-pop-pop-pop-pop every time I stopped or
accelerated. Turned out to be the top control arm bolt on the
driver side. Just wasn't tight enough and was slipping
just a teeny bit. Amazing how much noise it made for how little
room there is to move.

--
DougW

DougW

Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
> My XJ tracks straight and the wheels don't look tilted. The only
> thing it does weird is once in a while there is a sort of "chunk"
> that sounds like it's coming from the front, most often when backing
> up. There is no funny tire wear either.

Could be the brake pads moving about or a loose suspension bolt.
I had a series of pop-pop-pop-pop-pop every time I stopped or
accelerated. Turned out to be the top control arm bolt on the
driver side. Just wasn't tight enough and was slipping
just a teeny bit. Amazing how much noise it made for how little
room there is to move.

--
DougW