Fred W.

Mike,



"Mike Cagle" <rzbj70@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:88826838.0408131107.4aa31487@posting.google.c om...
> Thanks for all the comments.
>
> I took the Jeep to a local shop ran by an old fellow and his two sons.
> They were baffled by the diagnostics too but seemed more competent
> than the mechanic at the 5-Star dealer. Upon removing the valve cover
> they found that the valve spring on the exhaust valve was broken.
> They confirmed that the valve cover had indeed been removed by the
> dealer so the 5-Star mechanic simply missed it. They recommended
> replacing all the springs since it appeared to be a fatigue failure.
> With that they also replaced all the spark plugs since they had 85k on
> the factory originals anyway. My total bill from the local shop came
> in at just over $400. A far cry from the total of removing/replacing
> the cylinder head.

Glad to hear you found the problem and got it fixed so inexpensively. It's
also gratifying that the symproms you described did in fact add up to a
stuck open exhaust valve. ...and it's a *really*& good thing you didn't
listen to the RC (resident curmudgeon) and have a total rebuild done!!

>
> I called the GM of the dealership and explained the situation.
> Curiously he asked if the shop that did the work could confirm that
> the valve cover had been off. Sounds like he questioned the integrity
> of his own service people. He's refunding the bill for the work they
> did and throwing some extras in to convince me to give them another
> shot the next time either of my vehicles needs work. Not sure how
> effective that will be.
>

Agreed. I'd say the "old fellow and his sons" have done a bunch more to
earn your future business than the stealer and his inept gang of thieves.

Keep the rubber side down...
-Fred W

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Ditto!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Wow.....
>
> That really has to make you wonder eh? Once they started tearing down
> the head I wonder if they would have been honest enough to stop when
> they spotted the broken spring or if they just would have taken you like
> they 'sure' seemed intent on doing. LOL! Missed a busted valve spring
> on the dead cylinder in question while 'looking' for a broken
> spring.... Ya Right....
>
> There is 'no' other reason to open the cover except to inspect the valve
> mechanics in question.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Ditto!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Wow.....
>
> That really has to make you wonder eh? Once they started tearing down
> the head I wonder if they would have been honest enough to stop when
> they spotted the broken spring or if they just would have taken you like
> they 'sure' seemed intent on doing. LOL! Missed a busted valve spring
> on the dead cylinder in question while 'looking' for a broken
> spring.... Ya Right....
>
> There is 'no' other reason to open the cover except to inspect the valve
> mechanics in question.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Ditto!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Wow.....
>
> That really has to make you wonder eh? Once they started tearing down
> the head I wonder if they would have been honest enough to stop when
> they spotted the broken spring or if they just would have taken you like
> they 'sure' seemed intent on doing. LOL! Missed a busted valve spring
> on the dead cylinder in question while 'looking' for a broken
> spring.... Ya Right....
>
> There is 'no' other reason to open the cover except to inspect the valve
> mechanics in question.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Ditto!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Wow.....
>
> That really has to make you wonder eh? Once they started tearing down
> the head I wonder if they would have been honest enough to stop when
> they spotted the broken spring or if they just would have taken you like
> they 'sure' seemed intent on doing. LOL! Missed a busted valve spring
> on the dead cylinder in question while 'looking' for a broken
> spring.... Ya Right....
>
> There is 'no' other reason to open the cover except to inspect the valve
> mechanics in question.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Matt Macchiarolo

Agreed, I was voicing the possibility the test may have been bad.

"wkearney99" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JoCdnb_F1Noih4DcRVn-oQ@speakeasy.net...
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:-_-dnUhUK-UZ_IbcRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> > No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no
gas
> > in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition
> > problem as opposed to a valve problem.
>
> Not very likely as he pointed out:
>
> > > They did a compression test
> > > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's.
>
> Ignition won't mean diddly if there ain't no compression. The gas smell
was
> likely unburnt fuel because of the cylinder not firing (because of no
> compression)
>
> > > Did the wet oil test and said the rings were fine.
>
> How could this be true? Doesn't checking rings require compression of
some
> sort?
>
> > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the
> > > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or
> > > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other
> > > ideas.
>
> Sounds like valve issues to me. Sometimes hardware dies regardless of how
well
> you maintain it. Especially since you've lost only one cylinder, it
sounds
> like some particular part of it's actuation has crapped out.
>
> > > But nearly everyone these days says that a
> > > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions?
>
> Eh, oil's cheaper than new parts (and the hassles). I stick with a 3-5k
range.
> If you're doing nothing more than daily driving (not off-road or towing a
> trailer) and we're not talking searing summertime heat then it's
reasonable to
> stretch it a bit. But as engines age they do wear and the oil will get
fouled
> faster. So on older engines it's a good idea to keep an eye on the oil
changes.
>
> -Bill Kearney
>

Matt Macchiarolo

Agreed, I was voicing the possibility the test may have been bad.

"wkearney99" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JoCdnb_F1Noih4DcRVn-oQ@speakeasy.net...
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:-_-dnUhUK-UZ_IbcRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> > No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no
gas
> > in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition
> > problem as opposed to a valve problem.
>
> Not very likely as he pointed out:
>
> > > They did a compression test
> > > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's.
>
> Ignition won't mean diddly if there ain't no compression. The gas smell
was
> likely unburnt fuel because of the cylinder not firing (because of no
> compression)
>
> > > Did the wet oil test and said the rings were fine.
>
> How could this be true? Doesn't checking rings require compression of
some
> sort?
>
> > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the
> > > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or
> > > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other
> > > ideas.
>
> Sounds like valve issues to me. Sometimes hardware dies regardless of how
well
> you maintain it. Especially since you've lost only one cylinder, it
sounds
> like some particular part of it's actuation has crapped out.
>
> > > But nearly everyone these days says that a
> > > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions?
>
> Eh, oil's cheaper than new parts (and the hassles). I stick with a 3-5k
range.
> If you're doing nothing more than daily driving (not off-road or towing a
> trailer) and we're not talking searing summertime heat then it's
reasonable to
> stretch it a bit. But as engines age they do wear and the oil will get
fouled
> faster. So on older engines it's a good idea to keep an eye on the oil
changes.
>
> -Bill Kearney
>

Matt Macchiarolo

Agreed, I was voicing the possibility the test may have been bad.

"wkearney99" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JoCdnb_F1Noih4DcRVn-oQ@speakeasy.net...
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:-_-dnUhUK-UZ_IbcRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> > No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no
gas
> > in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition
> > problem as opposed to a valve problem.
>
> Not very likely as he pointed out:
>
> > > They did a compression test
> > > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's.
>
> Ignition won't mean diddly if there ain't no compression. The gas smell
was
> likely unburnt fuel because of the cylinder not firing (because of no
> compression)
>
> > > Did the wet oil test and said the rings were fine.
>
> How could this be true? Doesn't checking rings require compression of
some
> sort?
>
> > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the
> > > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or
> > > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other
> > > ideas.
>
> Sounds like valve issues to me. Sometimes hardware dies regardless of how
well
> you maintain it. Especially since you've lost only one cylinder, it
sounds
> like some particular part of it's actuation has crapped out.
>
> > > But nearly everyone these days says that a
> > > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions?
>
> Eh, oil's cheaper than new parts (and the hassles). I stick with a 3-5k
range.
> If you're doing nothing more than daily driving (not off-road or towing a
> trailer) and we're not talking searing summertime heat then it's
reasonable to
> stretch it a bit. But as engines age they do wear and the oil will get
fouled
> faster. So on older engines it's a good idea to keep an eye on the oil
changes.
>
> -Bill Kearney
>

Matt Macchiarolo

Agreed, I was voicing the possibility the test may have been bad.

"wkearney99" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JoCdnb_F1Noih4DcRVn-oQ@speakeasy.net...
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:-_-dnUhUK-UZ_IbcRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> > No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no
gas
> > in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition
> > problem as opposed to a valve problem.
>
> Not very likely as he pointed out:
>
> > > They did a compression test
> > > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's.
>
> Ignition won't mean diddly if there ain't no compression. The gas smell
was
> likely unburnt fuel because of the cylinder not firing (because of no
> compression)
>
> > > Did the wet oil test and said the rings were fine.
>
> How could this be true? Doesn't checking rings require compression of
some
> sort?
>
> > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the
> > > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or
> > > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other
> > > ideas.
>
> Sounds like valve issues to me. Sometimes hardware dies regardless of how
well
> you maintain it. Especially since you've lost only one cylinder, it
sounds
> like some particular part of it's actuation has crapped out.
>
> > > But nearly everyone these days says that a
> > > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions?
>
> Eh, oil's cheaper than new parts (and the hassles). I stick with a 3-5k
range.
> If you're doing nothing more than daily driving (not off-road or towing a
> trailer) and we're not talking searing summertime heat then it's
reasonable to
> stretch it a bit. But as engines age they do wear and the oil will get
fouled
> faster. So on older engines it's a good idea to keep an eye on the oil
changes.
>
> -Bill Kearney
>

Mike Cagle

I had the wife pick up six quarts of Mobil1 tonight and a new oil
filter while she was out. Drained the cheapo oil with the ATF I added
to it. Replaced the filter and put the six new quarts in. Good as
new. The old fellow said it was really clean inside when they took
the cover off. No sludge at all. With all the stuff I put in it to
fix a non-existent carbon problem it better be. Tks again.

mc
98 TJ Sport
85k miles, all new valve springs and plugs