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98TJ 4.0L with no compression in cylinder 3 - long
This morning on the way to work I lost power while doing about 30mph
up a slight hill. Turned into a parking lot to diagnose the problem. Sounded like I lost a cylinder. No abnormal sounds like clanking, banging, or clinking. Just a very rough idle and an offending gas smell coming out the exhaust. Drove to the nearest dealership which happens to be the nearest shop anyway. They did a compression test and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's. I let them take the valve cover off and they inspected and said everything looked fine (didn't see it myself). Ran a boroscope through the spark plug hole and said piston looked fine. Oil had no gas in it. Couldn't see the valves well enough. Did the wet oil test and said the rings were fine. They suggested next taking the cylinder head off. That was when I said no. I didn't think it was quite time for that yet. Stopped at an independent shop ran by an old fellow and he suggested miracle oil. I'll try anything if it saves me $800. No improvement. Spoke with some gearheads at work and they suggested more miracles with the primary idea being either: a) carbon deposit has caused a stuck valve b) valve lifter is stuck due to sludge or mechanical damage c) broken valve In any case no one thought additional damage was likely. So tonight I tried all the miracle fixes to no avail. Started with draining 1 qt of oil out and removing the filter. Installed new cheapo filter. Added oil flush and SeaFoam and ran for five minutes with the spark plug out. While it was running I sprayed Techron and carb cleaner into the spark plug hole and down the throttle body. Some black deposits were left on my garage floor beneath the exhaust pipe. After five minutes I drained the oil pan and the filter. Installed new filter, 5 qts of new oil with 1 qt of ATF. Checked the spark plug for spark and re-installed. Drove 15 miles with no obvious improvement. Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other ideas. The curious part is that I have nearly always ran Mobil1 in this engine since I purchased the vehicle new in 98. I typically change the oil twice a year which works out to 5-6k miles each change. Three or 4 times a year I use a fuel cleaner additive. I also alternate grades of gas occasionally to get additional cleaning. I have a K&N air filter and always use a high end oil filter (Fram DG/TG or K&N). I have done this with the TJ and our Grand Caravan with a 3.3LV6 (except no K&N air filter). The TJ has 85k miles and the GC has 108k. The GC has fouled two plugs in it's life which I think is odd. Now with the TJ issue I'm thinking that I've been a little too lax with the oil change interval. But nearly everyone these days says that a 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions? I'll see what the results are later this week but I'm a bit baffled. Unfortunately my wallet is going to be suffering from a significant vaccuum as a result. Mike Cagle 98 TJ 5sp with no other problems |
Re: 98TJ 4.0L with no compression in cylinder 3 - long
No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no gas
in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition problem as opposed to a valve problem. "Mike Cagle" <rzbj70@qwest.net> wrote in message news:88826838.0408112041.22ba07d7@posting.google.c om... > This morning on the way to work I lost power while doing about 30mph > up a slight hill. Turned into a parking lot to diagnose the problem. > Sounded like I lost a cylinder. No abnormal sounds like clanking, > banging, or clinking. Just a very rough idle and an offending gas > smell coming out the exhaust. Drove to the nearest dealership which > happens to be the nearest shop anyway. They did a compression test > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's. I let > them take the valve cover off and they inspected and said everything > looked fine (didn't see it myself). Ran a boroscope through the spark > plug hole and said piston looked fine. Oil had no gas in it. > Couldn't see the valves well enough. Did the wet oil test and said > the rings were fine. They suggested next taking the cylinder head > off. That was when I said no. I didn't think it was quite time for > that yet. Stopped at an independent shop ran by an old fellow and he > suggested miracle oil. I'll try anything if it saves me $800. No > improvement. Spoke with some gearheads at work and they suggested > more miracles with the primary idea being either: > a) carbon deposit has caused a stuck valve > b) valve lifter is stuck due to sludge or mechanical damage > c) broken valve > In any case no one thought additional damage was likely. So tonight I > tried all the miracle fixes to no avail. Started with draining 1 qt > of oil out and removing the filter. Installed new cheapo filter. > Added oil flush and SeaFoam and ran for five minutes with the spark > plug out. While it was running I sprayed Techron and carb cleaner > into the spark plug hole and down the throttle body. Some black > deposits were left on my garage floor beneath the exhaust pipe. After > five minutes I drained the oil pan and the filter. Installed new > filter, 5 qts of new oil with 1 qt of ATF. Checked the spark plug for > spark and re-installed. Drove 15 miles with no obvious improvement. > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other > ideas. > > The curious part is that I have nearly always ran Mobil1 in this > engine since I purchased the vehicle new in 98. I typically change > the oil twice a year which works out to 5-6k miles each change. Three > or 4 times a year I use a fuel cleaner additive. I also alternate > grades of gas occasionally to get additional cleaning. I have a K&N > air filter and always use a high end oil filter (Fram DG/TG or K&N). > I have done this with the TJ and our Grand Caravan with a 3.3LV6 > (except no K&N air filter). The TJ has 85k miles and the GC has 108k. > The GC has fouled two plugs in it's life which I think is odd. Now > with the TJ issue I'm thinking that I've been a little too lax with > the oil change interval. But nearly everyone these days says that a > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions? > > I'll see what the results are later this week but I'm a bit baffled. > Unfortunately my wallet is going to be suffering from a significant > vaccuum as a result. > > Mike Cagle > 98 TJ 5sp with no other problems |
Re: 98TJ 4.0L with no compression in cylinder 3 - long
No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no gas
in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition problem as opposed to a valve problem. "Mike Cagle" <rzbj70@qwest.net> wrote in message news:88826838.0408112041.22ba07d7@posting.google.c om... > This morning on the way to work I lost power while doing about 30mph > up a slight hill. Turned into a parking lot to diagnose the problem. > Sounded like I lost a cylinder. No abnormal sounds like clanking, > banging, or clinking. Just a very rough idle and an offending gas > smell coming out the exhaust. Drove to the nearest dealership which > happens to be the nearest shop anyway. They did a compression test > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's. I let > them take the valve cover off and they inspected and said everything > looked fine (didn't see it myself). Ran a boroscope through the spark > plug hole and said piston looked fine. Oil had no gas in it. > Couldn't see the valves well enough. Did the wet oil test and said > the rings were fine. They suggested next taking the cylinder head > off. That was when I said no. I didn't think it was quite time for > that yet. Stopped at an independent shop ran by an old fellow and he > suggested miracle oil. I'll try anything if it saves me $800. No > improvement. Spoke with some gearheads at work and they suggested > more miracles with the primary idea being either: > a) carbon deposit has caused a stuck valve > b) valve lifter is stuck due to sludge or mechanical damage > c) broken valve > In any case no one thought additional damage was likely. So tonight I > tried all the miracle fixes to no avail. Started with draining 1 qt > of oil out and removing the filter. Installed new cheapo filter. > Added oil flush and SeaFoam and ran for five minutes with the spark > plug out. While it was running I sprayed Techron and carb cleaner > into the spark plug hole and down the throttle body. Some black > deposits were left on my garage floor beneath the exhaust pipe. After > five minutes I drained the oil pan and the filter. Installed new > filter, 5 qts of new oil with 1 qt of ATF. Checked the spark plug for > spark and re-installed. Drove 15 miles with no obvious improvement. > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other > ideas. > > The curious part is that I have nearly always ran Mobil1 in this > engine since I purchased the vehicle new in 98. I typically change > the oil twice a year which works out to 5-6k miles each change. Three > or 4 times a year I use a fuel cleaner additive. I also alternate > grades of gas occasionally to get additional cleaning. I have a K&N > air filter and always use a high end oil filter (Fram DG/TG or K&N). > I have done this with the TJ and our Grand Caravan with a 3.3LV6 > (except no K&N air filter). The TJ has 85k miles and the GC has 108k. > The GC has fouled two plugs in it's life which I think is odd. Now > with the TJ issue I'm thinking that I've been a little too lax with > the oil change interval. But nearly everyone these days says that a > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions? > > I'll see what the results are later this week but I'm a bit baffled. > Unfortunately my wallet is going to be suffering from a significant > vaccuum as a result. > > Mike Cagle > 98 TJ 5sp with no other problems |
Re: 98TJ 4.0L with no compression in cylinder 3 - long
No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no gas
in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition problem as opposed to a valve problem. "Mike Cagle" <rzbj70@qwest.net> wrote in message news:88826838.0408112041.22ba07d7@posting.google.c om... > This morning on the way to work I lost power while doing about 30mph > up a slight hill. Turned into a parking lot to diagnose the problem. > Sounded like I lost a cylinder. No abnormal sounds like clanking, > banging, or clinking. Just a very rough idle and an offending gas > smell coming out the exhaust. Drove to the nearest dealership which > happens to be the nearest shop anyway. They did a compression test > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's. I let > them take the valve cover off and they inspected and said everything > looked fine (didn't see it myself). Ran a boroscope through the spark > plug hole and said piston looked fine. Oil had no gas in it. > Couldn't see the valves well enough. Did the wet oil test and said > the rings were fine. They suggested next taking the cylinder head > off. That was when I said no. I didn't think it was quite time for > that yet. Stopped at an independent shop ran by an old fellow and he > suggested miracle oil. I'll try anything if it saves me $800. No > improvement. Spoke with some gearheads at work and they suggested > more miracles with the primary idea being either: > a) carbon deposit has caused a stuck valve > b) valve lifter is stuck due to sludge or mechanical damage > c) broken valve > In any case no one thought additional damage was likely. So tonight I > tried all the miracle fixes to no avail. Started with draining 1 qt > of oil out and removing the filter. Installed new cheapo filter. > Added oil flush and SeaFoam and ran for five minutes with the spark > plug out. While it was running I sprayed Techron and carb cleaner > into the spark plug hole and down the throttle body. Some black > deposits were left on my garage floor beneath the exhaust pipe. After > five minutes I drained the oil pan and the filter. Installed new > filter, 5 qts of new oil with 1 qt of ATF. Checked the spark plug for > spark and re-installed. Drove 15 miles with no obvious improvement. > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other > ideas. > > The curious part is that I have nearly always ran Mobil1 in this > engine since I purchased the vehicle new in 98. I typically change > the oil twice a year which works out to 5-6k miles each change. Three > or 4 times a year I use a fuel cleaner additive. I also alternate > grades of gas occasionally to get additional cleaning. I have a K&N > air filter and always use a high end oil filter (Fram DG/TG or K&N). > I have done this with the TJ and our Grand Caravan with a 3.3LV6 > (except no K&N air filter). The TJ has 85k miles and the GC has 108k. > The GC has fouled two plugs in it's life which I think is odd. Now > with the TJ issue I'm thinking that I've been a little too lax with > the oil change interval. But nearly everyone these days says that a > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions? > > I'll see what the results are later this week but I'm a bit baffled. > Unfortunately my wallet is going to be suffering from a significant > vaccuum as a result. > > Mike Cagle > 98 TJ 5sp with no other problems |
Re: 98TJ 4.0L with no compression in cylinder 3 - long
No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no gas
in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition problem as opposed to a valve problem. "Mike Cagle" <rzbj70@qwest.net> wrote in message news:88826838.0408112041.22ba07d7@posting.google.c om... > This morning on the way to work I lost power while doing about 30mph > up a slight hill. Turned into a parking lot to diagnose the problem. > Sounded like I lost a cylinder. No abnormal sounds like clanking, > banging, or clinking. Just a very rough idle and an offending gas > smell coming out the exhaust. Drove to the nearest dealership which > happens to be the nearest shop anyway. They did a compression test > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's. I let > them take the valve cover off and they inspected and said everything > looked fine (didn't see it myself). Ran a boroscope through the spark > plug hole and said piston looked fine. Oil had no gas in it. > Couldn't see the valves well enough. Did the wet oil test and said > the rings were fine. They suggested next taking the cylinder head > off. That was when I said no. I didn't think it was quite time for > that yet. Stopped at an independent shop ran by an old fellow and he > suggested miracle oil. I'll try anything if it saves me $800. No > improvement. Spoke with some gearheads at work and they suggested > more miracles with the primary idea being either: > a) carbon deposit has caused a stuck valve > b) valve lifter is stuck due to sludge or mechanical damage > c) broken valve > In any case no one thought additional damage was likely. So tonight I > tried all the miracle fixes to no avail. Started with draining 1 qt > of oil out and removing the filter. Installed new cheapo filter. > Added oil flush and SeaFoam and ran for five minutes with the spark > plug out. While it was running I sprayed Techron and carb cleaner > into the spark plug hole and down the throttle body. Some black > deposits were left on my garage floor beneath the exhaust pipe. After > five minutes I drained the oil pan and the filter. Installed new > filter, 5 qts of new oil with 1 qt of ATF. Checked the spark plug for > spark and re-installed. Drove 15 miles with no obvious improvement. > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other > ideas. > > The curious part is that I have nearly always ran Mobil1 in this > engine since I purchased the vehicle new in 98. I typically change > the oil twice a year which works out to 5-6k miles each change. Three > or 4 times a year I use a fuel cleaner additive. I also alternate > grades of gas occasionally to get additional cleaning. I have a K&N > air filter and always use a high end oil filter (Fram DG/TG or K&N). > I have done this with the TJ and our Grand Caravan with a 3.3LV6 > (except no K&N air filter). The TJ has 85k miles and the GC has 108k. > The GC has fouled two plugs in it's life which I think is odd. Now > with the TJ issue I'm thinking that I've been a little too lax with > the oil change interval. But nearly everyone these days says that a > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions? > > I'll see what the results are later this week but I'm a bit baffled. > Unfortunately my wallet is going to be suffering from a significant > vaccuum as a result. > > Mike Cagle > 98 TJ 5sp with no other problems |
Re: 98TJ 4.0L with no compression in cylinder 3 - long
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:-_-dnUhUK-UZ_IbcRVn-sA@comcast.com... > No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no gas > in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition > problem as opposed to a valve problem. Not very likely as he pointed out: > > They did a compression test > > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's. Ignition won't mean diddly if there ain't no compression. The gas smell was likely unburnt fuel because of the cylinder not firing (because of no compression) > > Did the wet oil test and said the rings were fine. How could this be true? Doesn't checking rings require compression of some sort? > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the > > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or > > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other > > ideas. Sounds like valve issues to me. Sometimes hardware dies regardless of how well you maintain it. Especially since you've lost only one cylinder, it sounds like some particular part of it's actuation has crapped out. > > But nearly everyone these days says that a > > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions? Eh, oil's cheaper than new parts (and the hassles). I stick with a 3-5k range. If you're doing nothing more than daily driving (not off-road or towing a trailer) and we're not talking searing summertime heat then it's reasonable to stretch it a bit. But as engines age they do wear and the oil will get fouled faster. So on older engines it's a good idea to keep an eye on the oil changes. -Bill Kearney |
Re: 98TJ 4.0L with no compression in cylinder 3 - long
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:-_-dnUhUK-UZ_IbcRVn-sA@comcast.com... > No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no gas > in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition > problem as opposed to a valve problem. Not very likely as he pointed out: > > They did a compression test > > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's. Ignition won't mean diddly if there ain't no compression. The gas smell was likely unburnt fuel because of the cylinder not firing (because of no compression) > > Did the wet oil test and said the rings were fine. How could this be true? Doesn't checking rings require compression of some sort? > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the > > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or > > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other > > ideas. Sounds like valve issues to me. Sometimes hardware dies regardless of how well you maintain it. Especially since you've lost only one cylinder, it sounds like some particular part of it's actuation has crapped out. > > But nearly everyone these days says that a > > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions? Eh, oil's cheaper than new parts (and the hassles). I stick with a 3-5k range. If you're doing nothing more than daily driving (not off-road or towing a trailer) and we're not talking searing summertime heat then it's reasonable to stretch it a bit. But as engines age they do wear and the oil will get fouled faster. So on older engines it's a good idea to keep an eye on the oil changes. -Bill Kearney |
Re: 98TJ 4.0L with no compression in cylinder 3 - long
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:-_-dnUhUK-UZ_IbcRVn-sA@comcast.com... > No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no gas > in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition > problem as opposed to a valve problem. Not very likely as he pointed out: > > They did a compression test > > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's. Ignition won't mean diddly if there ain't no compression. The gas smell was likely unburnt fuel because of the cylinder not firing (because of no compression) > > Did the wet oil test and said the rings were fine. How could this be true? Doesn't checking rings require compression of some sort? > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the > > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or > > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other > > ideas. Sounds like valve issues to me. Sometimes hardware dies regardless of how well you maintain it. Especially since you've lost only one cylinder, it sounds like some particular part of it's actuation has crapped out. > > But nearly everyone these days says that a > > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions? Eh, oil's cheaper than new parts (and the hassles). I stick with a 3-5k range. If you're doing nothing more than daily driving (not off-road or towing a trailer) and we're not talking searing summertime heat then it's reasonable to stretch it a bit. But as engines age they do wear and the oil will get fouled faster. So on older engines it's a good idea to keep an eye on the oil changes. -Bill Kearney |
Re: 98TJ 4.0L with no compression in cylinder 3 - long
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:-_-dnUhUK-UZ_IbcRVn-sA@comcast.com... > No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no gas > in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition > problem as opposed to a valve problem. Not very likely as he pointed out: > > They did a compression test > > and number three was at zero. All others were in the 150's. Ignition won't mean diddly if there ain't no compression. The gas smell was likely unburnt fuel because of the cylinder not firing (because of no compression) > > Did the wet oil test and said the rings were fine. How could this be true? Doesn't checking rings require compression of some sort? > > Removing the head is beyond my skill range so I'll take it to the > > independent shop tomorrow. At this point I'm thinking I've burned or > > broken a valve or have a bad lifter. I would like to hear any other > > ideas. Sounds like valve issues to me. Sometimes hardware dies regardless of how well you maintain it. Especially since you've lost only one cylinder, it sounds like some particular part of it's actuation has crapped out. > > But nearly everyone these days says that a > > 3000 mile oil change is unnecessary. Opinions? Eh, oil's cheaper than new parts (and the hassles). I stick with a 3-5k range. If you're doing nothing more than daily driving (not off-road or towing a trailer) and we're not talking searing summertime heat then it's reasonable to stretch it a bit. But as engines age they do wear and the oil will get fouled faster. So on older engines it's a good idea to keep an eye on the oil changes. -Bill Kearney |
Re: 98TJ 4.0L with no compression in cylinder 3 - long
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:-_-dnUhUK-UZ_IbcRVn-sA@comcast.com... > No expert here, but with the gas smell coming out of the exhaust and no gas > in the oil, it you might also look into the possibility of an ignition > problem as opposed to a valve problem. I'm no expert either, burt how would that explain the zero compression in cyl #3? I'm thinking the exhause valve is stuck open or not fully seating closed. All the mixture going into that cylinder is being blown out before it gets a spark. Here's what I would do: Drain the oil again. Pull the plugs and the valve cover Have an assistant turn the engine over and watch the valves. (With no oil it will save from being messy) Compare the valves in cyl 3 to another good cylinder. Pay special attention to #3's exhaust. -Fred W |
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