98 Jeep Wrangler and E85 fuel
#361
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 98 Jeep Wrangler and E85 fuel
Curiosity is killing me, what do you power with a mili watt?
Oh, look you may buy a iPod charger for a hundred bucks:
http://www.earthtechproducts.com/p7....hannelid=NEXTA Geez,
I'd better up plug those chargers from my walls. <ROTFLMAO>
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
"Bob Officer" <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote in message
news:6q3g43t1sfanjso6brfqb8kcpc3236lmc2@4ax.com
>
> I have two PV cells that are 45 years old (bought from Edmund
> Scientific's) and still producing power.
> the cost of those two cells were $10. 45 years ago. they are still
> producing power. the cost per cell has dropped and those same cells
> now sell for about $1.75
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Oh, look you may buy a iPod charger for a hundred bucks:
http://www.earthtechproducts.com/p7....hannelid=NEXTA Geez,
I'd better up plug those chargers from my walls. <ROTFLMAO>
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
"Bob Officer" <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote in message
news:6q3g43t1sfanjso6brfqb8kcpc3236lmc2@4ax.com
>
> I have two PV cells that are 45 years old (bought from Edmund
> Scientific's) and still producing power.
> the cost of those two cells were $10. 45 years ago. they are still
> producing power. the cost per cell has dropped and those same cells
> now sell for about $1.75
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
#362
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 98 Jeep Wrangler and E85 fuel
On Mon, 14 May 2007 07:08:31 GMT, "Shirley U. Jeste"
<dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 May 2007 23:35:50 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>
>> "Shirley U. Jeste" <dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:33:39 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Officer <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 12:39:01 -0700, in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
>>>>> XS11E <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Anyone know if that's true or not?
>>>>>
>>>>> not true.
>>>>
>>>> References? I got it from a pretty reliable source.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.windsun.com/Grid_Tie/solar_econ.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.solarexpert.com/grid-tie/...advantges.html
>>>
>>> Links:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel
>>
>> Thanks, but neither address the issue which isn't the monetary cost of
>> generating electricity, comparing conventional vs. solar panels but the
>> *ENERGY* cost of manufacturing the solar panels. Dollars don't enter
>> into the equation at all.
>>
>> IE, if a solar panel can generate 1 MegaWatt during it's lifetime but
>> requires 1.2 MegaWatt to manufacture, it's a losing proposition, and
>> that's what I've heard (although the numbers I just made up for
>> reference.)
>>
>> The information came from an engineer working for Motorola on similar
>> projects at the time. I'm sure there are improvements in manufacturing
>> techniques since but who knows?
>>
>> That's what I'm trying to find out.....
>
>Well, like any 'product', the cost-to-benefit curve is flexible. An
>affluent person spending far too much money on bleeding-edge computer
>equipment is what brings the prices down on those same products for Joe
>User. Same here. I /think/ we're at a revenue-neutral stage right now,
>cost and benefits being roughly equal. Benefits will outstrip cost at some
>point unless the entire idea is abandoned for some reason.
>
>And I doubt if you'll find much on the Web. It's mostly a pro vs. con
>issue with very high monetary and political rewards at stake.
>Consequently, truly unbiased and highly technical info is hard to find.
>
>And 'alternative energy' topics cause instantaneous internal thermodynamic
>gastrointestinal issues with many people. As a contentious topic,
>remember, there are still tens of thousands (if not many more) folks who
>completely believe in the legendary 'gasoline pill'....
>
>Since an easy answer doesn't exist, I think you really need to read a full
>book on the topic -- and there are many. I have one around here somewhere,
>a 2006 edition, so it's current <arr! arr!> and it's a compilation of
>essays and engineering reports and so on on the fabrication costs and
>collateral costs and benefits.
>
>Try alt.binaries.e-books.technical; if there's nothing there at the
>moment, give it a week or two -- or post a request.
>
>They frequently have jeep manuals and tech reports, too, both old and new.
>
>
>
thanks for the tip on alt.binaries.e-books.technical - snagged a pdf
version of the 98-03 TJ FSM...
reboot
---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000740-0, 05/13/2007
Tested on: 5/14/2007 11:11:15 PM
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http://www.avast.com
<dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 May 2007 23:35:50 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>
>> "Shirley U. Jeste" <dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:33:39 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Officer <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 12:39:01 -0700, in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
>>>>> XS11E <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Anyone know if that's true or not?
>>>>>
>>>>> not true.
>>>>
>>>> References? I got it from a pretty reliable source.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.windsun.com/Grid_Tie/solar_econ.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.solarexpert.com/grid-tie/...advantges.html
>>>
>>> Links:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel
>>
>> Thanks, but neither address the issue which isn't the monetary cost of
>> generating electricity, comparing conventional vs. solar panels but the
>> *ENERGY* cost of manufacturing the solar panels. Dollars don't enter
>> into the equation at all.
>>
>> IE, if a solar panel can generate 1 MegaWatt during it's lifetime but
>> requires 1.2 MegaWatt to manufacture, it's a losing proposition, and
>> that's what I've heard (although the numbers I just made up for
>> reference.)
>>
>> The information came from an engineer working for Motorola on similar
>> projects at the time. I'm sure there are improvements in manufacturing
>> techniques since but who knows?
>>
>> That's what I'm trying to find out.....
>
>Well, like any 'product', the cost-to-benefit curve is flexible. An
>affluent person spending far too much money on bleeding-edge computer
>equipment is what brings the prices down on those same products for Joe
>User. Same here. I /think/ we're at a revenue-neutral stage right now,
>cost and benefits being roughly equal. Benefits will outstrip cost at some
>point unless the entire idea is abandoned for some reason.
>
>And I doubt if you'll find much on the Web. It's mostly a pro vs. con
>issue with very high monetary and political rewards at stake.
>Consequently, truly unbiased and highly technical info is hard to find.
>
>And 'alternative energy' topics cause instantaneous internal thermodynamic
>gastrointestinal issues with many people. As a contentious topic,
>remember, there are still tens of thousands (if not many more) folks who
>completely believe in the legendary 'gasoline pill'....
>
>Since an easy answer doesn't exist, I think you really need to read a full
>book on the topic -- and there are many. I have one around here somewhere,
>a 2006 edition, so it's current <arr! arr!> and it's a compilation of
>essays and engineering reports and so on on the fabrication costs and
>collateral costs and benefits.
>
>Try alt.binaries.e-books.technical; if there's nothing there at the
>moment, give it a week or two -- or post a request.
>
>They frequently have jeep manuals and tech reports, too, both old and new.
>
>
>
thanks for the tip on alt.binaries.e-books.technical - snagged a pdf
version of the 98-03 TJ FSM...
reboot
---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000740-0, 05/13/2007
Tested on: 5/14/2007 11:11:15 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
#363
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 98 Jeep Wrangler and E85 fuel
On Mon, 14 May 2007 07:08:31 GMT, "Shirley U. Jeste"
<dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 May 2007 23:35:50 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>
>> "Shirley U. Jeste" <dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:33:39 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Officer <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 12:39:01 -0700, in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
>>>>> XS11E <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Anyone know if that's true or not?
>>>>>
>>>>> not true.
>>>>
>>>> References? I got it from a pretty reliable source.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.windsun.com/Grid_Tie/solar_econ.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.solarexpert.com/grid-tie/...advantges.html
>>>
>>> Links:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel
>>
>> Thanks, but neither address the issue which isn't the monetary cost of
>> generating electricity, comparing conventional vs. solar panels but the
>> *ENERGY* cost of manufacturing the solar panels. Dollars don't enter
>> into the equation at all.
>>
>> IE, if a solar panel can generate 1 MegaWatt during it's lifetime but
>> requires 1.2 MegaWatt to manufacture, it's a losing proposition, and
>> that's what I've heard (although the numbers I just made up for
>> reference.)
>>
>> The information came from an engineer working for Motorola on similar
>> projects at the time. I'm sure there are improvements in manufacturing
>> techniques since but who knows?
>>
>> That's what I'm trying to find out.....
>
>Well, like any 'product', the cost-to-benefit curve is flexible. An
>affluent person spending far too much money on bleeding-edge computer
>equipment is what brings the prices down on those same products for Joe
>User. Same here. I /think/ we're at a revenue-neutral stage right now,
>cost and benefits being roughly equal. Benefits will outstrip cost at some
>point unless the entire idea is abandoned for some reason.
>
>And I doubt if you'll find much on the Web. It's mostly a pro vs. con
>issue with very high monetary and political rewards at stake.
>Consequently, truly unbiased and highly technical info is hard to find.
>
>And 'alternative energy' topics cause instantaneous internal thermodynamic
>gastrointestinal issues with many people. As a contentious topic,
>remember, there are still tens of thousands (if not many more) folks who
>completely believe in the legendary 'gasoline pill'....
>
>Since an easy answer doesn't exist, I think you really need to read a full
>book on the topic -- and there are many. I have one around here somewhere,
>a 2006 edition, so it's current <arr! arr!> and it's a compilation of
>essays and engineering reports and so on on the fabrication costs and
>collateral costs and benefits.
>
>Try alt.binaries.e-books.technical; if there's nothing there at the
>moment, give it a week or two -- or post a request.
>
>They frequently have jeep manuals and tech reports, too, both old and new.
>
>
>
thanks for the tip on alt.binaries.e-books.technical - snagged a pdf
version of the 98-03 TJ FSM...
reboot
---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000740-0, 05/13/2007
Tested on: 5/14/2007 11:11:15 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
<dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 May 2007 23:35:50 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>
>> "Shirley U. Jeste" <dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:33:39 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Officer <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 12:39:01 -0700, in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
>>>>> XS11E <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Anyone know if that's true or not?
>>>>>
>>>>> not true.
>>>>
>>>> References? I got it from a pretty reliable source.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.windsun.com/Grid_Tie/solar_econ.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.solarexpert.com/grid-tie/...advantges.html
>>>
>>> Links:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel
>>
>> Thanks, but neither address the issue which isn't the monetary cost of
>> generating electricity, comparing conventional vs. solar panels but the
>> *ENERGY* cost of manufacturing the solar panels. Dollars don't enter
>> into the equation at all.
>>
>> IE, if a solar panel can generate 1 MegaWatt during it's lifetime but
>> requires 1.2 MegaWatt to manufacture, it's a losing proposition, and
>> that's what I've heard (although the numbers I just made up for
>> reference.)
>>
>> The information came from an engineer working for Motorola on similar
>> projects at the time. I'm sure there are improvements in manufacturing
>> techniques since but who knows?
>>
>> That's what I'm trying to find out.....
>
>Well, like any 'product', the cost-to-benefit curve is flexible. An
>affluent person spending far too much money on bleeding-edge computer
>equipment is what brings the prices down on those same products for Joe
>User. Same here. I /think/ we're at a revenue-neutral stage right now,
>cost and benefits being roughly equal. Benefits will outstrip cost at some
>point unless the entire idea is abandoned for some reason.
>
>And I doubt if you'll find much on the Web. It's mostly a pro vs. con
>issue with very high monetary and political rewards at stake.
>Consequently, truly unbiased and highly technical info is hard to find.
>
>And 'alternative energy' topics cause instantaneous internal thermodynamic
>gastrointestinal issues with many people. As a contentious topic,
>remember, there are still tens of thousands (if not many more) folks who
>completely believe in the legendary 'gasoline pill'....
>
>Since an easy answer doesn't exist, I think you really need to read a full
>book on the topic -- and there are many. I have one around here somewhere,
>a 2006 edition, so it's current <arr! arr!> and it's a compilation of
>essays and engineering reports and so on on the fabrication costs and
>collateral costs and benefits.
>
>Try alt.binaries.e-books.technical; if there's nothing there at the
>moment, give it a week or two -- or post a request.
>
>They frequently have jeep manuals and tech reports, too, both old and new.
>
>
>
thanks for the tip on alt.binaries.e-books.technical - snagged a pdf
version of the 98-03 TJ FSM...
reboot
---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000740-0, 05/13/2007
Tested on: 5/14/2007 11:11:15 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
#364
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 98 Jeep Wrangler and E85 fuel
On Mon, 14 May 2007 07:08:31 GMT, "Shirley U. Jeste"
<dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 May 2007 23:35:50 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>
>> "Shirley U. Jeste" <dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:33:39 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Officer <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 12:39:01 -0700, in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
>>>>> XS11E <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Anyone know if that's true or not?
>>>>>
>>>>> not true.
>>>>
>>>> References? I got it from a pretty reliable source.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.windsun.com/Grid_Tie/solar_econ.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.solarexpert.com/grid-tie/...advantges.html
>>>
>>> Links:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel
>>
>> Thanks, but neither address the issue which isn't the monetary cost of
>> generating electricity, comparing conventional vs. solar panels but the
>> *ENERGY* cost of manufacturing the solar panels. Dollars don't enter
>> into the equation at all.
>>
>> IE, if a solar panel can generate 1 MegaWatt during it's lifetime but
>> requires 1.2 MegaWatt to manufacture, it's a losing proposition, and
>> that's what I've heard (although the numbers I just made up for
>> reference.)
>>
>> The information came from an engineer working for Motorola on similar
>> projects at the time. I'm sure there are improvements in manufacturing
>> techniques since but who knows?
>>
>> That's what I'm trying to find out.....
>
>Well, like any 'product', the cost-to-benefit curve is flexible. An
>affluent person spending far too much money on bleeding-edge computer
>equipment is what brings the prices down on those same products for Joe
>User. Same here. I /think/ we're at a revenue-neutral stage right now,
>cost and benefits being roughly equal. Benefits will outstrip cost at some
>point unless the entire idea is abandoned for some reason.
>
>And I doubt if you'll find much on the Web. It's mostly a pro vs. con
>issue with very high monetary and political rewards at stake.
>Consequently, truly unbiased and highly technical info is hard to find.
>
>And 'alternative energy' topics cause instantaneous internal thermodynamic
>gastrointestinal issues with many people. As a contentious topic,
>remember, there are still tens of thousands (if not many more) folks who
>completely believe in the legendary 'gasoline pill'....
>
>Since an easy answer doesn't exist, I think you really need to read a full
>book on the topic -- and there are many. I have one around here somewhere,
>a 2006 edition, so it's current <arr! arr!> and it's a compilation of
>essays and engineering reports and so on on the fabrication costs and
>collateral costs and benefits.
>
>Try alt.binaries.e-books.technical; if there's nothing there at the
>moment, give it a week or two -- or post a request.
>
>They frequently have jeep manuals and tech reports, too, both old and new.
>
>
>
thanks for the tip on alt.binaries.e-books.technical - snagged a pdf
version of the 98-03 TJ FSM...
reboot
---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000740-0, 05/13/2007
Tested on: 5/14/2007 11:11:15 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
<dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 May 2007 23:35:50 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>
>> "Shirley U. Jeste" <dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:33:39 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Officer <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 12:39:01 -0700, in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
>>>>> XS11E <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Anyone know if that's true or not?
>>>>>
>>>>> not true.
>>>>
>>>> References? I got it from a pretty reliable source.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.windsun.com/Grid_Tie/solar_econ.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.solarexpert.com/grid-tie/...advantges.html
>>>
>>> Links:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel
>>
>> Thanks, but neither address the issue which isn't the monetary cost of
>> generating electricity, comparing conventional vs. solar panels but the
>> *ENERGY* cost of manufacturing the solar panels. Dollars don't enter
>> into the equation at all.
>>
>> IE, if a solar panel can generate 1 MegaWatt during it's lifetime but
>> requires 1.2 MegaWatt to manufacture, it's a losing proposition, and
>> that's what I've heard (although the numbers I just made up for
>> reference.)
>>
>> The information came from an engineer working for Motorola on similar
>> projects at the time. I'm sure there are improvements in manufacturing
>> techniques since but who knows?
>>
>> That's what I'm trying to find out.....
>
>Well, like any 'product', the cost-to-benefit curve is flexible. An
>affluent person spending far too much money on bleeding-edge computer
>equipment is what brings the prices down on those same products for Joe
>User. Same here. I /think/ we're at a revenue-neutral stage right now,
>cost and benefits being roughly equal. Benefits will outstrip cost at some
>point unless the entire idea is abandoned for some reason.
>
>And I doubt if you'll find much on the Web. It's mostly a pro vs. con
>issue with very high monetary and political rewards at stake.
>Consequently, truly unbiased and highly technical info is hard to find.
>
>And 'alternative energy' topics cause instantaneous internal thermodynamic
>gastrointestinal issues with many people. As a contentious topic,
>remember, there are still tens of thousands (if not many more) folks who
>completely believe in the legendary 'gasoline pill'....
>
>Since an easy answer doesn't exist, I think you really need to read a full
>book on the topic -- and there are many. I have one around here somewhere,
>a 2006 edition, so it's current <arr! arr!> and it's a compilation of
>essays and engineering reports and so on on the fabrication costs and
>collateral costs and benefits.
>
>Try alt.binaries.e-books.technical; if there's nothing there at the
>moment, give it a week or two -- or post a request.
>
>They frequently have jeep manuals and tech reports, too, both old and new.
>
>
>
thanks for the tip on alt.binaries.e-books.technical - snagged a pdf
version of the 98-03 TJ FSM...
reboot
---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000740-0, 05/13/2007
Tested on: 5/14/2007 11:11:15 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
#365
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 98 Jeep Wrangler and E85 fuel
On Mon, 14 May 2007 07:08:31 GMT, "Shirley U. Jeste"
<dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 May 2007 23:35:50 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>
>> "Shirley U. Jeste" <dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:33:39 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Officer <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 12:39:01 -0700, in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
>>>>> XS11E <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Anyone know if that's true or not?
>>>>>
>>>>> not true.
>>>>
>>>> References? I got it from a pretty reliable source.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.windsun.com/Grid_Tie/solar_econ.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.solarexpert.com/grid-tie/...advantges.html
>>>
>>> Links:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel
>>
>> Thanks, but neither address the issue which isn't the monetary cost of
>> generating electricity, comparing conventional vs. solar panels but the
>> *ENERGY* cost of manufacturing the solar panels. Dollars don't enter
>> into the equation at all.
>>
>> IE, if a solar panel can generate 1 MegaWatt during it's lifetime but
>> requires 1.2 MegaWatt to manufacture, it's a losing proposition, and
>> that's what I've heard (although the numbers I just made up for
>> reference.)
>>
>> The information came from an engineer working for Motorola on similar
>> projects at the time. I'm sure there are improvements in manufacturing
>> techniques since but who knows?
>>
>> That's what I'm trying to find out.....
>
>Well, like any 'product', the cost-to-benefit curve is flexible. An
>affluent person spending far too much money on bleeding-edge computer
>equipment is what brings the prices down on those same products for Joe
>User. Same here. I /think/ we're at a revenue-neutral stage right now,
>cost and benefits being roughly equal. Benefits will outstrip cost at some
>point unless the entire idea is abandoned for some reason.
>
>And I doubt if you'll find much on the Web. It's mostly a pro vs. con
>issue with very high monetary and political rewards at stake.
>Consequently, truly unbiased and highly technical info is hard to find.
>
>And 'alternative energy' topics cause instantaneous internal thermodynamic
>gastrointestinal issues with many people. As a contentious topic,
>remember, there are still tens of thousands (if not many more) folks who
>completely believe in the legendary 'gasoline pill'....
>
>Since an easy answer doesn't exist, I think you really need to read a full
>book on the topic -- and there are many. I have one around here somewhere,
>a 2006 edition, so it's current <arr! arr!> and it's a compilation of
>essays and engineering reports and so on on the fabrication costs and
>collateral costs and benefits.
>
>Try alt.binaries.e-books.technical; if there's nothing there at the
>moment, give it a week or two -- or post a request.
>
>They frequently have jeep manuals and tech reports, too, both old and new.
>
>
>
thanks for the tip on alt.binaries.e-books.technical - snagged a pdf
version of the 98-03 TJ FSM...
reboot
---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000740-0, 05/13/2007
Tested on: 5/14/2007 11:11:15 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
<dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 May 2007 23:35:50 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>
>> "Shirley U. Jeste" <dontcallmeshirley@anytime.bud> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 22:33:39 -0700, XS11E wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Officer <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 13 May 2007 12:39:01 -0700, in rec.autos.makers.jeep+******,
>>>>> XS11E <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Anyone know if that's true or not?
>>>>>
>>>>> not true.
>>>>
>>>> References? I got it from a pretty reliable source.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.windsun.com/Grid_Tie/solar_econ.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.solarexpert.com/grid-tie/...advantges.html
>>>
>>> Links:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel
>>
>> Thanks, but neither address the issue which isn't the monetary cost of
>> generating electricity, comparing conventional vs. solar panels but the
>> *ENERGY* cost of manufacturing the solar panels. Dollars don't enter
>> into the equation at all.
>>
>> IE, if a solar panel can generate 1 MegaWatt during it's lifetime but
>> requires 1.2 MegaWatt to manufacture, it's a losing proposition, and
>> that's what I've heard (although the numbers I just made up for
>> reference.)
>>
>> The information came from an engineer working for Motorola on similar
>> projects at the time. I'm sure there are improvements in manufacturing
>> techniques since but who knows?
>>
>> That's what I'm trying to find out.....
>
>Well, like any 'product', the cost-to-benefit curve is flexible. An
>affluent person spending far too much money on bleeding-edge computer
>equipment is what brings the prices down on those same products for Joe
>User. Same here. I /think/ we're at a revenue-neutral stage right now,
>cost and benefits being roughly equal. Benefits will outstrip cost at some
>point unless the entire idea is abandoned for some reason.
>
>And I doubt if you'll find much on the Web. It's mostly a pro vs. con
>issue with very high monetary and political rewards at stake.
>Consequently, truly unbiased and highly technical info is hard to find.
>
>And 'alternative energy' topics cause instantaneous internal thermodynamic
>gastrointestinal issues with many people. As a contentious topic,
>remember, there are still tens of thousands (if not many more) folks who
>completely believe in the legendary 'gasoline pill'....
>
>Since an easy answer doesn't exist, I think you really need to read a full
>book on the topic -- and there are many. I have one around here somewhere,
>a 2006 edition, so it's current <arr! arr!> and it's a compilation of
>essays and engineering reports and so on on the fabrication costs and
>collateral costs and benefits.
>
>Try alt.binaries.e-books.technical; if there's nothing there at the
>moment, give it a week or two -- or post a request.
>
>They frequently have jeep manuals and tech reports, too, both old and new.
>
>
>
thanks for the tip on alt.binaries.e-books.technical - snagged a pdf
version of the 98-03 TJ FSM...
reboot
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#366
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 98 Jeep Wrangler and E85 fuel
This is the experiment I remember in school
"You may have observed this process in a high-school chemistry
experiment. Water electrolysis involves passing an electric current through
H2O to separate it into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2). Hydrogen gas rises
from the negative cathode and oxygen gas collects at the positive anode."
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid557.php
The burning of metal may have been in the oxygen part, and may have been
after the butsen burner, it was over fifty years ago:
http://----------.com/SanDieguito/ClassOf37to65.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:T9Y1i.2234$vu2.1882@trndny01...
>
> High school plus 2 years college level: Quantitative, Qualitative, and
> two terms of Organic.
>
> Magnesium will not burn in hydrogen, however magnesium hydride shows
> some potential as a hydrogen storage medium.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
"You may have observed this process in a high-school chemistry
experiment. Water electrolysis involves passing an electric current through
H2O to separate it into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2). Hydrogen gas rises
from the negative cathode and oxygen gas collects at the positive anode."
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid557.php
The burning of metal may have been in the oxygen part, and may have been
after the butsen burner, it was over fifty years ago:
http://----------.com/SanDieguito/ClassOf37to65.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:T9Y1i.2234$vu2.1882@trndny01...
>
> High school plus 2 years college level: Quantitative, Qualitative, and
> two terms of Organic.
>
> Magnesium will not burn in hydrogen, however magnesium hydride shows
> some potential as a hydrogen storage medium.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
#367
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 98 Jeep Wrangler and E85 fuel
This is the experiment I remember in school
"You may have observed this process in a high-school chemistry
experiment. Water electrolysis involves passing an electric current through
H2O to separate it into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2). Hydrogen gas rises
from the negative cathode and oxygen gas collects at the positive anode."
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid557.php
The burning of metal may have been in the oxygen part, and may have been
after the butsen burner, it was over fifty years ago:
http://----------.com/SanDieguito/ClassOf37to65.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:T9Y1i.2234$vu2.1882@trndny01...
>
> High school plus 2 years college level: Quantitative, Qualitative, and
> two terms of Organic.
>
> Magnesium will not burn in hydrogen, however magnesium hydride shows
> some potential as a hydrogen storage medium.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
"You may have observed this process in a high-school chemistry
experiment. Water electrolysis involves passing an electric current through
H2O to separate it into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2). Hydrogen gas rises
from the negative cathode and oxygen gas collects at the positive anode."
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid557.php
The burning of metal may have been in the oxygen part, and may have been
after the butsen burner, it was over fifty years ago:
http://----------.com/SanDieguito/ClassOf37to65.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:T9Y1i.2234$vu2.1882@trndny01...
>
> High school plus 2 years college level: Quantitative, Qualitative, and
> two terms of Organic.
>
> Magnesium will not burn in hydrogen, however magnesium hydride shows
> some potential as a hydrogen storage medium.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
#368
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 98 Jeep Wrangler and E85 fuel
This is the experiment I remember in school
"You may have observed this process in a high-school chemistry
experiment. Water electrolysis involves passing an electric current through
H2O to separate it into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2). Hydrogen gas rises
from the negative cathode and oxygen gas collects at the positive anode."
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid557.php
The burning of metal may have been in the oxygen part, and may have been
after the butsen burner, it was over fifty years ago:
http://----------.com/SanDieguito/ClassOf37to65.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:T9Y1i.2234$vu2.1882@trndny01...
>
> High school plus 2 years college level: Quantitative, Qualitative, and
> two terms of Organic.
>
> Magnesium will not burn in hydrogen, however magnesium hydride shows
> some potential as a hydrogen storage medium.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
"You may have observed this process in a high-school chemistry
experiment. Water electrolysis involves passing an electric current through
H2O to separate it into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2). Hydrogen gas rises
from the negative cathode and oxygen gas collects at the positive anode."
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid557.php
The burning of metal may have been in the oxygen part, and may have been
after the butsen burner, it was over fifty years ago:
http://----------.com/SanDieguito/ClassOf37to65.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:T9Y1i.2234$vu2.1882@trndny01...
>
> High school plus 2 years college level: Quantitative, Qualitative, and
> two terms of Organic.
>
> Magnesium will not burn in hydrogen, however magnesium hydride shows
> some potential as a hydrogen storage medium.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
#369
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 98 Jeep Wrangler and E85 fuel
This is the experiment I remember in school
"You may have observed this process in a high-school chemistry
experiment. Water electrolysis involves passing an electric current through
H2O to separate it into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2). Hydrogen gas rises
from the negative cathode and oxygen gas collects at the positive anode."
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid557.php
The burning of metal may have been in the oxygen part, and may have been
after the butsen burner, it was over fifty years ago:
http://----------.com/SanDieguito/ClassOf37to65.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:T9Y1i.2234$vu2.1882@trndny01...
>
> High school plus 2 years college level: Quantitative, Qualitative, and
> two terms of Organic.
>
> Magnesium will not burn in hydrogen, however magnesium hydride shows
> some potential as a hydrogen storage medium.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
"You may have observed this process in a high-school chemistry
experiment. Water electrolysis involves passing an electric current through
H2O to separate it into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2). Hydrogen gas rises
from the negative cathode and oxygen gas collects at the positive anode."
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid557.php
The burning of metal may have been in the oxygen part, and may have been
after the butsen burner, it was over fifty years ago:
http://----------.com/SanDieguito/ClassOf37to65.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:T9Y1i.2234$vu2.1882@trndny01...
>
> High school plus 2 years college level: Quantitative, Qualitative, and
> two terms of Organic.
>
> Magnesium will not burn in hydrogen, however magnesium hydride shows
> some potential as a hydrogen storage medium.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
#370
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 98 Jeep Wrangler and E85 fuel
What kind? Don't care. The problem is the total energy cost of the panel.
Coal, oil, nuke, or solar--as long as the panels produce more energy in
their lifetimes than what they took up to be made themselves, the situation
is a win, otherwise it is a waste...
/herb
In article <4647d44f$0$10114$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>,
L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III <----------@***.net> wrote:
# What kind of energy do you think made the solar energy panels? And like
#the panels we see powering the cell emergency phone along our free ways,
#"just pencils out" building poles to each one.
# God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
#mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
#
#
#"Herb Leong" <herb@urusei.net> wrote in message
#news:2smdndHfzbeX-9rbnZ2dnUVZ_vXinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
#> In article <1178731433.061923.236850@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups. com>,
#> nrs <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote:
#> #2) if it is obtained by separating from oxygen in water, then it takes
#> #more energy to seperate than you get back by burning.
#> Yes. That means you need a super-cheap source of electricity.
#> While solar panels are expensive, they are cheap to run (mostly
#> free--some soap and water to keep it clean and a regular going
#> over by the owner).
#>
#> /herb
#
#
#
#--
#Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
#