Jeff Strickland

>
> Thanks guys for all your information!
>
>
> Hey Jeff! When you said this:
>
> Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
> similar,
> perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The difference
> is
> that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but there
> is a
> HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the MC
> fails
> in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if
> you
> hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
> transmission
> is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch depressed
> in N
> while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
> when the
> light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and the
> gears
> will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
> times.
>
> That is definitely what is happening, and also, like before when you
> mentioned the brake slowly moving closer to the floor when your foot is
> on it, this also happens with the clutch, it sinks and then if you pump
> it the pressure comes back...so I guess I know what to do!
> thanks again!
> Angelo
>

Bingo.

To be completely safe and sure of your diagnosis (or mine if you prefer to
pin it on me), you should go ahead and check that the trans fluid is full. I
suspect it is, but even if it isn't, it generally contributes to grinding
between gears more than prohibitting selecting 1st.

Pumping the pedals and having that bring them back into service means the MC
is toast.

Jeff Strickland

>
> Thanks guys for all your information!
>
>
> Hey Jeff! When you said this:
>
> Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
> similar,
> perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The difference
> is
> that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but there
> is a
> HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the MC
> fails
> in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if
> you
> hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
> transmission
> is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch depressed
> in N
> while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
> when the
> light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and the
> gears
> will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
> times.
>
> That is definitely what is happening, and also, like before when you
> mentioned the brake slowly moving closer to the floor when your foot is
> on it, this also happens with the clutch, it sinks and then if you pump
> it the pressure comes back...so I guess I know what to do!
> thanks again!
> Angelo
>

Bingo.

To be completely safe and sure of your diagnosis (or mine if you prefer to
pin it on me), you should go ahead and check that the trans fluid is full. I
suspect it is, but even if it isn't, it generally contributes to grinding
between gears more than prohibitting selecting 1st.

Pumping the pedals and having that bring them back into service means the MC
is toast.

solasound@comcast.net

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >
> > Thanks guys for all your information!
> >
> >
> > Hey Jeff! When you said this:
> >
> > Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
> > similar,
> > perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The
difference
> > is
> > that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but
there
> > is a
> > HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the
MC
> > fails
> > in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep
if
> > you
> > hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
> > transmission
> > is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch
depressed
> > in N
> > while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
> > when the
> > light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and
the
> > gears
> > will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
> > times.
> >
> > That is definitely what is happening, and also, like before when
you
> > mentioned the brake slowly moving closer to the floor when your
foot is
> > on it, this also happens with the clutch, it sinks and then if you
pump
> > it the pressure comes back...so I guess I know what to do!
> > thanks again!
> > Angelo
> >
>
> Bingo.
>
> To be completely safe and sure of your diagnosis (or mine if you
prefer to
> pin it on me), you should go ahead and check that the trans fluid is
full. I
> suspect it is, but even if it isn't, it generally contributes to
grinding
> between gears more than prohibitting selecting 1st.
>
> Pumping the pedals and having that bring them back into service means
the MC
> is toast.



Thanks again mate!

solasound@comcast.net

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >
> > Thanks guys for all your information!
> >
> >
> > Hey Jeff! When you said this:
> >
> > Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
> > similar,
> > perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The
difference
> > is
> > that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but
there
> > is a
> > HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the
MC
> > fails
> > in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep
if
> > you
> > hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
> > transmission
> > is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch
depressed
> > in N
> > while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
> > when the
> > light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and
the
> > gears
> > will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
> > times.
> >
> > That is definitely what is happening, and also, like before when
you
> > mentioned the brake slowly moving closer to the floor when your
foot is
> > on it, this also happens with the clutch, it sinks and then if you
pump
> > it the pressure comes back...so I guess I know what to do!
> > thanks again!
> > Angelo
> >
>
> Bingo.
>
> To be completely safe and sure of your diagnosis (or mine if you
prefer to
> pin it on me), you should go ahead and check that the trans fluid is
full. I
> suspect it is, but even if it isn't, it generally contributes to
grinding
> between gears more than prohibitting selecting 1st.
>
> Pumping the pedals and having that bring them back into service means
the MC
> is toast.



Thanks again mate!

solasound@comcast.net

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >
> > Thanks guys for all your information!
> >
> >
> > Hey Jeff! When you said this:
> >
> > Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
> > similar,
> > perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The
difference
> > is
> > that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but
there
> > is a
> > HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the
MC
> > fails
> > in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep
if
> > you
> > hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
> > transmission
> > is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch
depressed
> > in N
> > while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
> > when the
> > light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and
the
> > gears
> > will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
> > times.
> >
> > That is definitely what is happening, and also, like before when
you
> > mentioned the brake slowly moving closer to the floor when your
foot is
> > on it, this also happens with the clutch, it sinks and then if you
pump
> > it the pressure comes back...so I guess I know what to do!
> > thanks again!
> > Angelo
> >
>
> Bingo.
>
> To be completely safe and sure of your diagnosis (or mine if you
prefer to
> pin it on me), you should go ahead and check that the trans fluid is
full. I
> suspect it is, but even if it isn't, it generally contributes to
grinding
> between gears more than prohibitting selecting 1st.
>
> Pumping the pedals and having that bring them back into service means
the MC
> is toast.



Thanks again mate!

Will Honea

Second that, Jeff. Just changed mine out for that very reason. After
swapping the mc out I looked at the insides and it was full of 'mud'
from deteriorating rubber somewhere so I swapped the slave as well.
This one was tricky: pump it up and it held for several minutes -
maybe an hour. Next time, it would bleed down so fast I had to time
it to get it in first. The piston was fine - it was the mud getting
into the valve at the end that lets in more fluid when you pump it up.
Once pumped, I rarely saw any bleed off while the clutch was in, so
it didn't act like a common mc failure.

If the brake fluid in the system is cruddy, you probably found the
problem and cause.

Advice: if you change the mc, change the slave as well (it's the
external one). The dealr only sells the 2 as a unit with the line
already attached but you can save several bucks by shopping one of the
after market parts houses - Advanced Auto and Pep Boys had it for next
day delivery. Swapping it out is simple.

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 03:19:01 UTC "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Mike! He has described a classic Clutch Master Cylinder failure, hasn't he?
> In which case, the fluid might not be low.
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41EEEC42.798DCF58@sympatico.ca...
> > Letting up on the clutch in neutral is also double clutching which can
> > let a low fluid or water contaminated tranny shift. That implies the
> > syncros aren't spinning up.
> >
> > I would be checking the fluid first anyway just to make sure it is
> > topped up and doesn't look like a milkshake. They get water in them
> > easy if you go too deep off road, the tranny has no vent hose only a
> > button.
> >
> > After that, you get into pressure plate issues or even loose trannys or
> > hydraulics....
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > solasound@comcast.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello gentlemen I'm hoping somebody can give some insight to a problem
> >> that started about a month ago...I have a 95 wrangler 4.0 5-speed
> >> manual transmission with 105K and all of the sudden the clutch is
> >> sticking in gear sometimes (mostly first) amd sometimes I can't get
> >> into gear unless I let up on the clutch first, or pump it once, and
> >> then it's fine...
> >>
> >> the brake fluid level in the small reservoir was a bit low so I topped
> >> it off with the right stuff and drove for a few days with no change...
> >>
> >> I've done a few tests myself and I really don't think it's the clutch
> >> itself, it's not slipping at all or grinding...I've been lurking around
> >> here and it seem either the master or ugh slave cylinder are the big
> >> culprits? Any way to figure which it might be, from what I've
> >> described?
> >>
> >> Also somebody mentioned to me that I might have a broken spring in the
> >> pressure plate?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance!
>
>


--
Will Honea

Will Honea

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 03:15:56 UTC "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very similar,
> perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The difference is
> that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but there is a
> HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the MC fails
> in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if you
> hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the transmission
> is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch depressed in N
> while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1 when the
> light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and the gears
> will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few times.

Got to chuckle at this. As I said earlier, mine was not bleeding down
while pressure was on so much as when off it or if I pressed slowly.
I was doing a bunch of pumping - until the !@#$%^ offset arrm that the
XJ/MJ uses on the clutch pedal broke off. Now THAT is what I classify
as catastrophic - good thing I had a strong battery and was only 10
miles or so from the barn.

--
Will Honea

Will Honea

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 03:15:56 UTC "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very similar,
> perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The difference is
> that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but there is a
> HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the MC fails
> in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if you
> hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the transmission
> is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch depressed in N
> while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1 when the
> light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and the gears
> will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few times.

Got to chuckle at this. As I said earlier, mine was not bleeding down
while pressure was on so much as when off it or if I pressed slowly.
I was doing a bunch of pumping - until the !@#$%^ offset arrm that the
XJ/MJ uses on the clutch pedal broke off. Now THAT is what I classify
as catastrophic - good thing I had a strong battery and was only 10
miles or so from the barn.

--
Will Honea

Will Honea

Second that, Jeff. Just changed mine out for that very reason. After
swapping the mc out I looked at the insides and it was full of 'mud'
from deteriorating rubber somewhere so I swapped the slave as well.
This one was tricky: pump it up and it held for several minutes -
maybe an hour. Next time, it would bleed down so fast I had to time
it to get it in first. The piston was fine - it was the mud getting
into the valve at the end that lets in more fluid when you pump it up.
Once pumped, I rarely saw any bleed off while the clutch was in, so
it didn't act like a common mc failure.

If the brake fluid in the system is cruddy, you probably found the
problem and cause.

Advice: if you change the mc, change the slave as well (it's the
external one). The dealr only sells the 2 as a unit with the line
already attached but you can save several bucks by shopping one of the
after market parts houses - Advanced Auto and Pep Boys had it for next
day delivery. Swapping it out is simple.

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 03:19:01 UTC "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Mike! He has described a classic Clutch Master Cylinder failure, hasn't he?
> In which case, the fluid might not be low.
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41EEEC42.798DCF58@sympatico.ca...
> > Letting up on the clutch in neutral is also double clutching which can
> > let a low fluid or water contaminated tranny shift. That implies the
> > syncros aren't spinning up.
> >
> > I would be checking the fluid first anyway just to make sure it is
> > topped up and doesn't look like a milkshake. They get water in them
> > easy if you go too deep off road, the tranny has no vent hose only a
> > button.
> >
> > After that, you get into pressure plate issues or even loose trannys or
> > hydraulics....
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > solasound@comcast.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello gentlemen I'm hoping somebody can give some insight to a problem
> >> that started about a month ago...I have a 95 wrangler 4.0 5-speed
> >> manual transmission with 105K and all of the sudden the clutch is
> >> sticking in gear sometimes (mostly first) amd sometimes I can't get
> >> into gear unless I let up on the clutch first, or pump it once, and
> >> then it's fine...
> >>
> >> the brake fluid level in the small reservoir was a bit low so I topped
> >> it off with the right stuff and drove for a few days with no change...
> >>
> >> I've done a few tests myself and I really don't think it's the clutch
> >> itself, it's not slipping at all or grinding...I've been lurking around
> >> here and it seem either the master or ugh slave cylinder are the big
> >> culprits? Any way to figure which it might be, from what I've
> >> described?
> >>
> >> Also somebody mentioned to me that I might have a broken spring in the
> >> pressure plate?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance!
>
>


--
Will Honea

Will Honea

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 03:15:56 UTC "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very similar,
> perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The difference is
> that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but there is a
> HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the MC fails
> in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if you
> hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the transmission
> is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch depressed in N
> while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1 when the
> light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and the gears
> will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few times.

Got to chuckle at this. As I said earlier, mine was not bleeding down
while pressure was on so much as when off it or if I pressed slowly.
I was doing a bunch of pumping - until the !@#$%^ offset arrm that the
XJ/MJ uses on the clutch pedal broke off. Now THAT is what I classify
as catastrophic - good thing I had a strong battery and was only 10
miles or so from the barn.

--
Will Honea