Jeff Strickland

Mike! He has described a classic Clutch Master Cylinder failure, hasn't he?
In which case, the fluid might not be low.




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:41EEEC42.798DCF58@sympatico.ca...
> Letting up on the clutch in neutral is also double clutching which can
> let a low fluid or water contaminated tranny shift. That implies the
> syncros aren't spinning up.
>
> I would be checking the fluid first anyway just to make sure it is
> topped up and doesn't look like a milkshake. They get water in them
> easy if you go too deep off road, the tranny has no vent hose only a
> button.
>
> After that, you get into pressure plate issues or even loose trannys or
> hydraulics....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> solasound@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> Hello gentlemen I'm hoping somebody can give some insight to a problem
>> that started about a month ago...I have a 95 wrangler 4.0 5-speed
>> manual transmission with 105K and all of the sudden the clutch is
>> sticking in gear sometimes (mostly first) amd sometimes I can't get
>> into gear unless I let up on the clutch first, or pump it once, and
>> then it's fine...
>>
>> the brake fluid level in the small reservoir was a bit low so I topped
>> it off with the right stuff and drove for a few days with no change...
>>
>> I've done a few tests myself and I really don't think it's the clutch
>> itself, it's not slipping at all or grinding...I've been lurking around
>> here and it seem either the master or ugh slave cylinder are the big
>> culprits? Any way to figure which it might be, from what I've
>> described?
>>
>> Also somebody mentioned to me that I might have a broken spring in the
>> pressure plate?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!

Jeff Strickland

Mike! He has described a classic Clutch Master Cylinder failure, hasn't he?
In which case, the fluid might not be low.




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:41EEEC42.798DCF58@sympatico.ca...
> Letting up on the clutch in neutral is also double clutching which can
> let a low fluid or water contaminated tranny shift. That implies the
> syncros aren't spinning up.
>
> I would be checking the fluid first anyway just to make sure it is
> topped up and doesn't look like a milkshake. They get water in them
> easy if you go too deep off road, the tranny has no vent hose only a
> button.
>
> After that, you get into pressure plate issues or even loose trannys or
> hydraulics....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> solasound@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> Hello gentlemen I'm hoping somebody can give some insight to a problem
>> that started about a month ago...I have a 95 wrangler 4.0 5-speed
>> manual transmission with 105K and all of the sudden the clutch is
>> sticking in gear sometimes (mostly first) amd sometimes I can't get
>> into gear unless I let up on the clutch first, or pump it once, and
>> then it's fine...
>>
>> the brake fluid level in the small reservoir was a bit low so I topped
>> it off with the right stuff and drove for a few days with no change...
>>
>> I've done a few tests myself and I really don't think it's the clutch
>> itself, it's not slipping at all or grinding...I've been lurking around
>> here and it seem either the master or ugh slave cylinder are the big
>> culprits? Any way to figure which it might be, from what I've
>> described?
>>
>> Also somebody mentioned to me that I might have a broken spring in the
>> pressure plate?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!

Jeff Strickland

Mike! He has described a classic Clutch Master Cylinder failure, hasn't he?
In which case, the fluid might not be low.




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:41EEEC42.798DCF58@sympatico.ca...
> Letting up on the clutch in neutral is also double clutching which can
> let a low fluid or water contaminated tranny shift. That implies the
> syncros aren't spinning up.
>
> I would be checking the fluid first anyway just to make sure it is
> topped up and doesn't look like a milkshake. They get water in them
> easy if you go too deep off road, the tranny has no vent hose only a
> button.
>
> After that, you get into pressure plate issues or even loose trannys or
> hydraulics....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> solasound@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> Hello gentlemen I'm hoping somebody can give some insight to a problem
>> that started about a month ago...I have a 95 wrangler 4.0 5-speed
>> manual transmission with 105K and all of the sudden the clutch is
>> sticking in gear sometimes (mostly first) amd sometimes I can't get
>> into gear unless I let up on the clutch first, or pump it once, and
>> then it's fine...
>>
>> the brake fluid level in the small reservoir was a bit low so I topped
>> it off with the right stuff and drove for a few days with no change...
>>
>> I've done a few tests myself and I really don't think it's the clutch
>> itself, it's not slipping at all or grinding...I've been lurking around
>> here and it seem either the master or ugh slave cylinder are the big
>> culprits? Any way to figure which it might be, from what I've
>> described?
>>
>> Also somebody mentioned to me that I might have a broken spring in the
>> pressure plate?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!

Mike Romain

He could be.

Someone else just had a similar issue and the tranny was loose from the
engine.....

Checking fluids first is easy and free too.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> Mike! He has described a classic Clutch Master Cylinder failure, hasn't he?
> In which case, the fluid might not be low.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41EEEC42.798DCF58@sympatico.ca...
> > Letting up on the clutch in neutral is also double clutching which can
> > let a low fluid or water contaminated tranny shift. That implies the
> > syncros aren't spinning up.
> >
> > I would be checking the fluid first anyway just to make sure it is
> > topped up and doesn't look like a milkshake. They get water in them
> > easy if you go too deep off road, the tranny has no vent hose only a
> > button.
> >
> > After that, you get into pressure plate issues or even loose trannys or
> > hydraulics....
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > solasound@comcast.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello gentlemen I'm hoping somebody can give some insight to a problem
> >> that started about a month ago...I have a 95 wrangler 4.0 5-speed
> >> manual transmission with 105K and all of the sudden the clutch is
> >> sticking in gear sometimes (mostly first) amd sometimes I can't get
> >> into gear unless I let up on the clutch first, or pump it once, and
> >> then it's fine...
> >>
> >> the brake fluid level in the small reservoir was a bit low so I topped
> >> it off with the right stuff and drove for a few days with no change...
> >>
> >> I've done a few tests myself and I really don't think it's the clutch
> >> itself, it's not slipping at all or grinding...I've been lurking around
> >> here and it seem either the master or ugh slave cylinder are the big
> >> culprits? Any way to figure which it might be, from what I've
> >> described?
> >>
> >> Also somebody mentioned to me that I might have a broken spring in the
> >> pressure plate?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance!

Mike Romain

He could be.

Someone else just had a similar issue and the tranny was loose from the
engine.....

Checking fluids first is easy and free too.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> Mike! He has described a classic Clutch Master Cylinder failure, hasn't he?
> In which case, the fluid might not be low.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41EEEC42.798DCF58@sympatico.ca...
> > Letting up on the clutch in neutral is also double clutching which can
> > let a low fluid or water contaminated tranny shift. That implies the
> > syncros aren't spinning up.
> >
> > I would be checking the fluid first anyway just to make sure it is
> > topped up and doesn't look like a milkshake. They get water in them
> > easy if you go too deep off road, the tranny has no vent hose only a
> > button.
> >
> > After that, you get into pressure plate issues or even loose trannys or
> > hydraulics....
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > solasound@comcast.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello gentlemen I'm hoping somebody can give some insight to a problem
> >> that started about a month ago...I have a 95 wrangler 4.0 5-speed
> >> manual transmission with 105K and all of the sudden the clutch is
> >> sticking in gear sometimes (mostly first) amd sometimes I can't get
> >> into gear unless I let up on the clutch first, or pump it once, and
> >> then it's fine...
> >>
> >> the brake fluid level in the small reservoir was a bit low so I topped
> >> it off with the right stuff and drove for a few days with no change...
> >>
> >> I've done a few tests myself and I really don't think it's the clutch
> >> itself, it's not slipping at all or grinding...I've been lurking around
> >> here and it seem either the master or ugh slave cylinder are the big
> >> culprits? Any way to figure which it might be, from what I've
> >> described?
> >>
> >> Also somebody mentioned to me that I might have a broken spring in the
> >> pressure plate?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance!

Mike Romain

He could be.

Someone else just had a similar issue and the tranny was loose from the
engine.....

Checking fluids first is easy and free too.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> Mike! He has described a classic Clutch Master Cylinder failure, hasn't he?
> In which case, the fluid might not be low.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:41EEEC42.798DCF58@sympatico.ca...
> > Letting up on the clutch in neutral is also double clutching which can
> > let a low fluid or water contaminated tranny shift. That implies the
> > syncros aren't spinning up.
> >
> > I would be checking the fluid first anyway just to make sure it is
> > topped up and doesn't look like a milkshake. They get water in them
> > easy if you go too deep off road, the tranny has no vent hose only a
> > button.
> >
> > After that, you get into pressure plate issues or even loose trannys or
> > hydraulics....
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > solasound@comcast.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello gentlemen I'm hoping somebody can give some insight to a problem
> >> that started about a month ago...I have a 95 wrangler 4.0 5-speed
> >> manual transmission with 105K and all of the sudden the clutch is
> >> sticking in gear sometimes (mostly first) amd sometimes I can't get
> >> into gear unless I let up on the clutch first, or pump it once, and
> >> then it's fine...
> >>
> >> the brake fluid level in the small reservoir was a bit low so I topped
> >> it off with the right stuff and drove for a few days with no change...
> >>
> >> I've done a few tests myself and I really don't think it's the clutch
> >> itself, it's not slipping at all or grinding...I've been lurking around
> >> here and it seem either the master or ugh slave cylinder are the big
> >> culprits? Any way to figure which it might be, from what I've
> >> described?
> >>
> >> Also somebody mentioned to me that I might have a broken spring in the
> >> pressure plate?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance!

solasound@comcast.net

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> <solasound@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1106162842.802932.203180@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> > Hello gentlemen I'm hoping somebody can give some insight to a
problem
> > that started about a month ago...I have a 95 wrangler 4.0 5-speed
> > manual transmission with 105K and all of the sudden the clutch is
> > sticking in gear sometimes (mostly first) amd sometimes I can't get
> > into gear unless I let up on the clutch first, or pump it once, and
> > then it's fine...
> >
>
> Without reading another word, you have troubles withthe Clutch Master

> Cylinder.
>
> The clutch and the brakes use similar systems, lets' talk about
brakes
> because youhave probably experienced this before. If you are waiting
at a
> light with your foot on the brake pedal, you might notice your foot
slowly
> sinks towards the carpet. This means the Brake Master Cylinder is
failing.
> The MC has a couple of chambers, and has a piston and a variety of
internal
> seals. Over time, these seals begin to fail, and you notice this as
your
> foot sinking at the stop sign or traffic light. The recovery mode is
to pump
> the brake pedal.
>
> Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
similar,
> perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The
difference is
> that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but
there is a
> HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the
MC fails
> in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if
you
> hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
transmission
> is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch
depressed in N
> while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
when the
> light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and
the gears
> will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
times.
>
> The seals inside the MC (either the brakes or the clutch) can fail in
such a
> way that the operating pressure is lost, but no fluid leaks to the
outside.
> There is a slave culinder in the clutch, roughly equivelent to the
brake
> cylinders (or pistons in the instance of disc brakes). When the slave

> cylinders leak, they leak to the outside and the leaking is
eventually
> visible, and frequently catastrophic. When the MC fails, it needs
attention,
> but I can not recall any instance of catastrophic failure where the
clutch
> or brakes fail completely without warning. That is the good news. The
bad
> news is, you can't ignore repairs. Well, you can ignore repairs, but
I would
> appreciate it if you stay in front of me if that happens.





Thanks guys for all your information!


Hey Jeff! When you said this:

Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
similar,
perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The difference
is
that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but there
is a
HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the MC
fails
in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if
you
hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
transmission
is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch depressed
in N
while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
when the
light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and the
gears
will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
times.

That is definitely what is happening, and also, like before when you
mentioned the brake slowly moving closer to the floor when your foot is
on it, this also happens with the clutch, it sinks and then if you pump
it the pressure comes back...so I guess I know what to do!
thanks again!
Angelo

solasound@comcast.net

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> <solasound@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1106162842.802932.203180@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> > Hello gentlemen I'm hoping somebody can give some insight to a
problem
> > that started about a month ago...I have a 95 wrangler 4.0 5-speed
> > manual transmission with 105K and all of the sudden the clutch is
> > sticking in gear sometimes (mostly first) amd sometimes I can't get
> > into gear unless I let up on the clutch first, or pump it once, and
> > then it's fine...
> >
>
> Without reading another word, you have troubles withthe Clutch Master

> Cylinder.
>
> The clutch and the brakes use similar systems, lets' talk about
brakes
> because youhave probably experienced this before. If you are waiting
at a
> light with your foot on the brake pedal, you might notice your foot
slowly
> sinks towards the carpet. This means the Brake Master Cylinder is
failing.
> The MC has a couple of chambers, and has a piston and a variety of
internal
> seals. Over time, these seals begin to fail, and you notice this as
your
> foot sinking at the stop sign or traffic light. The recovery mode is
to pump
> the brake pedal.
>
> Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
similar,
> perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The
difference is
> that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but
there is a
> HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the
MC fails
> in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if
you
> hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
transmission
> is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch
depressed in N
> while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
when the
> light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and
the gears
> will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
times.
>
> The seals inside the MC (either the brakes or the clutch) can fail in
such a
> way that the operating pressure is lost, but no fluid leaks to the
outside.
> There is a slave culinder in the clutch, roughly equivelent to the
brake
> cylinders (or pistons in the instance of disc brakes). When the slave

> cylinders leak, they leak to the outside and the leaking is
eventually
> visible, and frequently catastrophic. When the MC fails, it needs
attention,
> but I can not recall any instance of catastrophic failure where the
clutch
> or brakes fail completely without warning. That is the good news. The
bad
> news is, you can't ignore repairs. Well, you can ignore repairs, but
I would
> appreciate it if you stay in front of me if that happens.





Thanks guys for all your information!


Hey Jeff! When you said this:

Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
similar,
perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The difference
is
that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but there
is a
HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the MC
fails
in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if
you
hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
transmission
is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch depressed
in N
while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
when the
light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and the
gears
will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
times.

That is definitely what is happening, and also, like before when you
mentioned the brake slowly moving closer to the floor when your foot is
on it, this also happens with the clutch, it sinks and then if you pump
it the pressure comes back...so I guess I know what to do!
thanks again!
Angelo

solasound@comcast.net

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> <solasound@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1106162842.802932.203180@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> > Hello gentlemen I'm hoping somebody can give some insight to a
problem
> > that started about a month ago...I have a 95 wrangler 4.0 5-speed
> > manual transmission with 105K and all of the sudden the clutch is
> > sticking in gear sometimes (mostly first) amd sometimes I can't get
> > into gear unless I let up on the clutch first, or pump it once, and
> > then it's fine...
> >
>
> Without reading another word, you have troubles withthe Clutch Master

> Cylinder.
>
> The clutch and the brakes use similar systems, lets' talk about
brakes
> because youhave probably experienced this before. If you are waiting
at a
> light with your foot on the brake pedal, you might notice your foot
slowly
> sinks towards the carpet. This means the Brake Master Cylinder is
failing.
> The MC has a couple of chambers, and has a piston and a variety of
internal
> seals. Over time, these seals begin to fail, and you notice this as
your
> foot sinking at the stop sign or traffic light. The recovery mode is
to pump
> the brake pedal.
>
> Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
similar,
> perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The
difference is
> that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but
there is a
> HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the
MC fails
> in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if
you
> hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
transmission
> is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch
depressed in N
> while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
when the
> light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and
the gears
> will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
times.
>
> The seals inside the MC (either the brakes or the clutch) can fail in
such a
> way that the operating pressure is lost, but no fluid leaks to the
outside.
> There is a slave culinder in the clutch, roughly equivelent to the
brake
> cylinders (or pistons in the instance of disc brakes). When the slave

> cylinders leak, they leak to the outside and the leaking is
eventually
> visible, and frequently catastrophic. When the MC fails, it needs
attention,
> but I can not recall any instance of catastrophic failure where the
clutch
> or brakes fail completely without warning. That is the good news. The
bad
> news is, you can't ignore repairs. Well, you can ignore repairs, but
I would
> appreciate it if you stay in front of me if that happens.





Thanks guys for all your information!


Hey Jeff! When you said this:

Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
similar,
perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The difference
is
that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but there
is a
HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the MC
fails
in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if
you
hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
transmission
is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch depressed
in N
while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
when the
light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and the
gears
will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
times.

That is definitely what is happening, and also, like before when you
mentioned the brake slowly moving closer to the floor when your foot is
on it, this also happens with the clutch, it sinks and then if you pump
it the pressure comes back...so I guess I know what to do!
thanks again!
Angelo

Jeff Strickland

>
> Thanks guys for all your information!
>
>
> Hey Jeff! When you said this:
>
> Now the clutch. The clutch uses a hydraulic system that is very
> similar,
> perhaps identical, to that which is used for the brakes. The difference
> is
> that you hold your foot on the floor when youuse the clutch, but there
> is a
> HUGE spring inside the clutch that is pushing back at you. When the MC
> fails
> in the clutch, your experience is that the car may begin to creep if
> you
> hold the clutch depressed for a very ling traffic light and the
> transmission
> is in gear. What you do notice is that if you hold the clutch depressed
> in N
> while waiting for the green light, you will not be able to select 1
> when the
> light turns green. This is because the trans is already moving and the
> gears
> will not mesh. The recover mode is to pump the clutch pedal a few
> times.
>
> That is definitely what is happening, and also, like before when you
> mentioned the brake slowly moving closer to the floor when your foot is
> on it, this also happens with the clutch, it sinks and then if you pump
> it the pressure comes back...so I guess I know what to do!
> thanks again!
> Angelo
>

Bingo.

To be completely safe and sure of your diagnosis (or mine if you prefer to
pin it on me), you should go ahead and check that the trans fluid is full. I
suspect it is, but even if it isn't, it generally contributes to grinding
between gears more than prohibitting selecting 1st.

Pumping the pedals and having that bring them back into service means the MC
is toast.