93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start
#121
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start
>On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:32:54 -0500, Scott in Baltimore wrote:
>sounds like an intermittant connection.
>could be a ground or a wire or a connector.
>when the light is out, start wiggling wires.
Tough to "wiggle" the wires because the light seems to only remain off
for a few seconds.So far, the longest it's been off has been about
30-35 seconds and that only occured once in about 10-15 attempts.
However, I'll wiggle the whole Jeep if it would help. ;-)
>sounds like an intermittant connection.
>could be a ground or a wire or a connector.
>when the light is out, start wiggling wires.
Tough to "wiggle" the wires because the light seems to only remain off
for a few seconds.So far, the longest it's been off has been about
30-35 seconds and that only occured once in about 10-15 attempts.
However, I'll wiggle the whole Jeep if it would help. ;-)
#122
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start
>"DougW" did pass the time by typing:
>The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check Engine
>light.
Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!
>The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check Engine
>light.
Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!
#123
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start
>"DougW" did pass the time by typing:
>The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check Engine
>light.
Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!
>The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check Engine
>light.
Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!
#124
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start
>"DougW" did pass the time by typing:
>The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check Engine
>light.
Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!
>The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check Engine
>light.
Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!
#125
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start
>"DougW" did pass the time by typing:
>The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check Engine
>light.
Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!
>The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check Engine
>light.
Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!
#126
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start
>Mike Romain wrote:
>First off you say there is a failure issue or fatal error with the
>alarm. It does 'not' work because you cannot program the second key and
>the idiot light is flashing failure at you or not flashing when it
>should which is a failure. Something has to be 'broken' in that
>situation.
Actually, I never said there was a failure here. Sorry if I have
confused you. Let me try to set this straight...
First, neither the alarm nor the security light comes on when I
attempt to start the Jeep, which is normal. Only once did it ever come
on since this start problem began. I believe that *may* have been a
fluke, and I only say that because I do not know enough about the
system and how it all interconnects.
Second, I tried to get a second IR fob over five years ago. I think IF
that were related to this start problem, the problem would have
happened long before now.
>Then you said you have power at the fuel pump relay but no power back at
>the fuel pump.
Correct. Tested near the fgas tank using an OHM, both off, in RUN
position and during cranking and no voltage at any time. Repeated
several more times and results all the same, no voltage. But, someone
said it may be that it should not have voltage, which IMHO, doesn't
sound right. As for the engine relays and box, they all have voltage.
My neighbor and I tested the relays and they all seem to work (click
on/off normally).
>Now you say the key sometime turns on everything properly, but most
>times doesn't.
When you turn the key to RUN, the four dash lights should come on...
1) ABS... 2) Check Engine... 3) Airbag... 4) Fasten Seat Belt
IF all these come on when I turn the key, the Jeep starts.
IF the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, the Jeep does NOT start.
SOMETIMES, if the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, BUT you leave
the key in the RUN position, the light EVENTUALLY comes on and the
Jeep starts. So far, no way to predict if the"Check Engine" light
will come on or not until you turn the key and watch the dash.
Yesterday I had a hard time getting the "Check Engine" light NOT to
come on. Yesterday it seemed to want to work. Today I can't get it to
come on at all... YET.
>I think these are related.
As I said, I do not know enough of the system to be certain, but my
intuition agrees with you. At least so far.
>I would be running a booster cable from the negative battery post to
>something metal on the firewall to see what happens just because I live
>in the rust belt and see too many 'rotted where you can't see them'
>connections.
I will try this over the weekend. But just to let you know, both I and
my neighbor have gone over the wires several times and have not, as of
yet, found or resolved anything via wires.
>Then I would be trying to find out if I could bypass the alarm and
>security key.
I asked this question earlier but only received info on how to test
the security system. No replies on how to disable it.
I "heard" that the dealer will turn it off for $30 but I really want
to avoid spending $60 to turn it on and off if they are not related.
IF anyone knows how to disable the Alarm/Security System, I would
GREATLY appreciate the info!
>Next I would be physically tracing the power from the fuel pump relay to
>see what is between that and the pump itself. I would just take a wild
>guess and figure the alarm has a cut off relay in there.
Both my neighbor and I traced the wires from the engine relay
compartment back and everything seems fine. We also traced forward
from the connection near the fuel tank where we got no voltage but
that line disappears over the axle and into the cabin and we could not
follow.
>Could it be a bad ignition switch causing everything?
I never rule anything out, but it seems tight. I have tried "wiggling"
these wires (as "Scott in Baltimoe" stated), but everything remains
consistant. I tend to think, and I may be wrong, but if it were the
ignition, then the reults and the dash light would be responding
differently. I had a bad ignition once before on a '84 Olds and that
ignition was very loose. That had no bearing on the dahs (idiot)
lights. That's when the dealer told me how many people screw up their
ignitions with heavy keyrings. Ergo, I have split keyring... one side
is Jeep only and the other everything else and the two parts come
apart (Thanks Snap-On!) so weight it minimal.
>Or could the $tealer have screwed the alarm setting when they failed to
>program the second key?
Always a possibility. Since it was over 5 years ago, I really think I
would have seem something occur long before now. Also, the dealer said
they never checked the system in the Jeep, just worked with the IR fob
and I never took it back because it didn't seem worth it since I only
really needed one fob back then. It's rare my spouse uses my Jeep.
When I HAVE gotten the "Check Engine" light to come on, the only test
codes have been 12 and 55. Obviously if the light is not coming on, I
cannot test.
So far, the only information I have been able to find, other than all
the MUCH appreciated suggestions and information here, is from this
link: http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl651h.htm
Sorry if this is uber lengthy, but I wanted to clarify as much as
possible. I really appreciate all the responses very much.
Check out my next post for some more info...
~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing>
>First off you say there is a failure issue or fatal error with the
>alarm. It does 'not' work because you cannot program the second key and
>the idiot light is flashing failure at you or not flashing when it
>should which is a failure. Something has to be 'broken' in that
>situation.
Actually, I never said there was a failure here. Sorry if I have
confused you. Let me try to set this straight...
First, neither the alarm nor the security light comes on when I
attempt to start the Jeep, which is normal. Only once did it ever come
on since this start problem began. I believe that *may* have been a
fluke, and I only say that because I do not know enough about the
system and how it all interconnects.
Second, I tried to get a second IR fob over five years ago. I think IF
that were related to this start problem, the problem would have
happened long before now.
>Then you said you have power at the fuel pump relay but no power back at
>the fuel pump.
Correct. Tested near the fgas tank using an OHM, both off, in RUN
position and during cranking and no voltage at any time. Repeated
several more times and results all the same, no voltage. But, someone
said it may be that it should not have voltage, which IMHO, doesn't
sound right. As for the engine relays and box, they all have voltage.
My neighbor and I tested the relays and they all seem to work (click
on/off normally).
>Now you say the key sometime turns on everything properly, but most
>times doesn't.
When you turn the key to RUN, the four dash lights should come on...
1) ABS... 2) Check Engine... 3) Airbag... 4) Fasten Seat Belt
IF all these come on when I turn the key, the Jeep starts.
IF the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, the Jeep does NOT start.
SOMETIMES, if the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, BUT you leave
the key in the RUN position, the light EVENTUALLY comes on and the
Jeep starts. So far, no way to predict if the"Check Engine" light
will come on or not until you turn the key and watch the dash.
Yesterday I had a hard time getting the "Check Engine" light NOT to
come on. Yesterday it seemed to want to work. Today I can't get it to
come on at all... YET.
>I think these are related.
As I said, I do not know enough of the system to be certain, but my
intuition agrees with you. At least so far.
>I would be running a booster cable from the negative battery post to
>something metal on the firewall to see what happens just because I live
>in the rust belt and see too many 'rotted where you can't see them'
>connections.
I will try this over the weekend. But just to let you know, both I and
my neighbor have gone over the wires several times and have not, as of
yet, found or resolved anything via wires.
>Then I would be trying to find out if I could bypass the alarm and
>security key.
I asked this question earlier but only received info on how to test
the security system. No replies on how to disable it.
I "heard" that the dealer will turn it off for $30 but I really want
to avoid spending $60 to turn it on and off if they are not related.
IF anyone knows how to disable the Alarm/Security System, I would
GREATLY appreciate the info!
>Next I would be physically tracing the power from the fuel pump relay to
>see what is between that and the pump itself. I would just take a wild
>guess and figure the alarm has a cut off relay in there.
Both my neighbor and I traced the wires from the engine relay
compartment back and everything seems fine. We also traced forward
from the connection near the fuel tank where we got no voltage but
that line disappears over the axle and into the cabin and we could not
follow.
>Could it be a bad ignition switch causing everything?
I never rule anything out, but it seems tight. I have tried "wiggling"
these wires (as "Scott in Baltimoe" stated), but everything remains
consistant. I tend to think, and I may be wrong, but if it were the
ignition, then the reults and the dash light would be responding
differently. I had a bad ignition once before on a '84 Olds and that
ignition was very loose. That had no bearing on the dahs (idiot)
lights. That's when the dealer told me how many people screw up their
ignitions with heavy keyrings. Ergo, I have split keyring... one side
is Jeep only and the other everything else and the two parts come
apart (Thanks Snap-On!) so weight it minimal.
>Or could the $tealer have screwed the alarm setting when they failed to
>program the second key?
Always a possibility. Since it was over 5 years ago, I really think I
would have seem something occur long before now. Also, the dealer said
they never checked the system in the Jeep, just worked with the IR fob
and I never took it back because it didn't seem worth it since I only
really needed one fob back then. It's rare my spouse uses my Jeep.
When I HAVE gotten the "Check Engine" light to come on, the only test
codes have been 12 and 55. Obviously if the light is not coming on, I
cannot test.
So far, the only information I have been able to find, other than all
the MUCH appreciated suggestions and information here, is from this
link: http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl651h.htm
Sorry if this is uber lengthy, but I wanted to clarify as much as
possible. I really appreciate all the responses very much.
Check out my next post for some more info...
~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing>
#127
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start
>Mike Romain wrote:
>First off you say there is a failure issue or fatal error with the
>alarm. It does 'not' work because you cannot program the second key and
>the idiot light is flashing failure at you or not flashing when it
>should which is a failure. Something has to be 'broken' in that
>situation.
Actually, I never said there was a failure here. Sorry if I have
confused you. Let me try to set this straight...
First, neither the alarm nor the security light comes on when I
attempt to start the Jeep, which is normal. Only once did it ever come
on since this start problem began. I believe that *may* have been a
fluke, and I only say that because I do not know enough about the
system and how it all interconnects.
Second, I tried to get a second IR fob over five years ago. I think IF
that were related to this start problem, the problem would have
happened long before now.
>Then you said you have power at the fuel pump relay but no power back at
>the fuel pump.
Correct. Tested near the fgas tank using an OHM, both off, in RUN
position and during cranking and no voltage at any time. Repeated
several more times and results all the same, no voltage. But, someone
said it may be that it should not have voltage, which IMHO, doesn't
sound right. As for the engine relays and box, they all have voltage.
My neighbor and I tested the relays and they all seem to work (click
on/off normally).
>Now you say the key sometime turns on everything properly, but most
>times doesn't.
When you turn the key to RUN, the four dash lights should come on...
1) ABS... 2) Check Engine... 3) Airbag... 4) Fasten Seat Belt
IF all these come on when I turn the key, the Jeep starts.
IF the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, the Jeep does NOT start.
SOMETIMES, if the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, BUT you leave
the key in the RUN position, the light EVENTUALLY comes on and the
Jeep starts. So far, no way to predict if the"Check Engine" light
will come on or not until you turn the key and watch the dash.
Yesterday I had a hard time getting the "Check Engine" light NOT to
come on. Yesterday it seemed to want to work. Today I can't get it to
come on at all... YET.
>I think these are related.
As I said, I do not know enough of the system to be certain, but my
intuition agrees with you. At least so far.
>I would be running a booster cable from the negative battery post to
>something metal on the firewall to see what happens just because I live
>in the rust belt and see too many 'rotted where you can't see them'
>connections.
I will try this over the weekend. But just to let you know, both I and
my neighbor have gone over the wires several times and have not, as of
yet, found or resolved anything via wires.
>Then I would be trying to find out if I could bypass the alarm and
>security key.
I asked this question earlier but only received info on how to test
the security system. No replies on how to disable it.
I "heard" that the dealer will turn it off for $30 but I really want
to avoid spending $60 to turn it on and off if they are not related.
IF anyone knows how to disable the Alarm/Security System, I would
GREATLY appreciate the info!
>Next I would be physically tracing the power from the fuel pump relay to
>see what is between that and the pump itself. I would just take a wild
>guess and figure the alarm has a cut off relay in there.
Both my neighbor and I traced the wires from the engine relay
compartment back and everything seems fine. We also traced forward
from the connection near the fuel tank where we got no voltage but
that line disappears over the axle and into the cabin and we could not
follow.
>Could it be a bad ignition switch causing everything?
I never rule anything out, but it seems tight. I have tried "wiggling"
these wires (as "Scott in Baltimoe" stated), but everything remains
consistant. I tend to think, and I may be wrong, but if it were the
ignition, then the reults and the dash light would be responding
differently. I had a bad ignition once before on a '84 Olds and that
ignition was very loose. That had no bearing on the dahs (idiot)
lights. That's when the dealer told me how many people screw up their
ignitions with heavy keyrings. Ergo, I have split keyring... one side
is Jeep only and the other everything else and the two parts come
apart (Thanks Snap-On!) so weight it minimal.
>Or could the $tealer have screwed the alarm setting when they failed to
>program the second key?
Always a possibility. Since it was over 5 years ago, I really think I
would have seem something occur long before now. Also, the dealer said
they never checked the system in the Jeep, just worked with the IR fob
and I never took it back because it didn't seem worth it since I only
really needed one fob back then. It's rare my spouse uses my Jeep.
When I HAVE gotten the "Check Engine" light to come on, the only test
codes have been 12 and 55. Obviously if the light is not coming on, I
cannot test.
So far, the only information I have been able to find, other than all
the MUCH appreciated suggestions and information here, is from this
link: http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl651h.htm
Sorry if this is uber lengthy, but I wanted to clarify as much as
possible. I really appreciate all the responses very much.
Check out my next post for some more info...
~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing>
>First off you say there is a failure issue or fatal error with the
>alarm. It does 'not' work because you cannot program the second key and
>the idiot light is flashing failure at you or not flashing when it
>should which is a failure. Something has to be 'broken' in that
>situation.
Actually, I never said there was a failure here. Sorry if I have
confused you. Let me try to set this straight...
First, neither the alarm nor the security light comes on when I
attempt to start the Jeep, which is normal. Only once did it ever come
on since this start problem began. I believe that *may* have been a
fluke, and I only say that because I do not know enough about the
system and how it all interconnects.
Second, I tried to get a second IR fob over five years ago. I think IF
that were related to this start problem, the problem would have
happened long before now.
>Then you said you have power at the fuel pump relay but no power back at
>the fuel pump.
Correct. Tested near the fgas tank using an OHM, both off, in RUN
position and during cranking and no voltage at any time. Repeated
several more times and results all the same, no voltage. But, someone
said it may be that it should not have voltage, which IMHO, doesn't
sound right. As for the engine relays and box, they all have voltage.
My neighbor and I tested the relays and they all seem to work (click
on/off normally).
>Now you say the key sometime turns on everything properly, but most
>times doesn't.
When you turn the key to RUN, the four dash lights should come on...
1) ABS... 2) Check Engine... 3) Airbag... 4) Fasten Seat Belt
IF all these come on when I turn the key, the Jeep starts.
IF the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, the Jeep does NOT start.
SOMETIMES, if the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, BUT you leave
the key in the RUN position, the light EVENTUALLY comes on and the
Jeep starts. So far, no way to predict if the"Check Engine" light
will come on or not until you turn the key and watch the dash.
Yesterday I had a hard time getting the "Check Engine" light NOT to
come on. Yesterday it seemed to want to work. Today I can't get it to
come on at all... YET.
>I think these are related.
As I said, I do not know enough of the system to be certain, but my
intuition agrees with you. At least so far.
>I would be running a booster cable from the negative battery post to
>something metal on the firewall to see what happens just because I live
>in the rust belt and see too many 'rotted where you can't see them'
>connections.
I will try this over the weekend. But just to let you know, both I and
my neighbor have gone over the wires several times and have not, as of
yet, found or resolved anything via wires.
>Then I would be trying to find out if I could bypass the alarm and
>security key.
I asked this question earlier but only received info on how to test
the security system. No replies on how to disable it.
I "heard" that the dealer will turn it off for $30 but I really want
to avoid spending $60 to turn it on and off if they are not related.
IF anyone knows how to disable the Alarm/Security System, I would
GREATLY appreciate the info!
>Next I would be physically tracing the power from the fuel pump relay to
>see what is between that and the pump itself. I would just take a wild
>guess and figure the alarm has a cut off relay in there.
Both my neighbor and I traced the wires from the engine relay
compartment back and everything seems fine. We also traced forward
from the connection near the fuel tank where we got no voltage but
that line disappears over the axle and into the cabin and we could not
follow.
>Could it be a bad ignition switch causing everything?
I never rule anything out, but it seems tight. I have tried "wiggling"
these wires (as "Scott in Baltimoe" stated), but everything remains
consistant. I tend to think, and I may be wrong, but if it were the
ignition, then the reults and the dash light would be responding
differently. I had a bad ignition once before on a '84 Olds and that
ignition was very loose. That had no bearing on the dahs (idiot)
lights. That's when the dealer told me how many people screw up their
ignitions with heavy keyrings. Ergo, I have split keyring... one side
is Jeep only and the other everything else and the two parts come
apart (Thanks Snap-On!) so weight it minimal.
>Or could the $tealer have screwed the alarm setting when they failed to
>program the second key?
Always a possibility. Since it was over 5 years ago, I really think I
would have seem something occur long before now. Also, the dealer said
they never checked the system in the Jeep, just worked with the IR fob
and I never took it back because it didn't seem worth it since I only
really needed one fob back then. It's rare my spouse uses my Jeep.
When I HAVE gotten the "Check Engine" light to come on, the only test
codes have been 12 and 55. Obviously if the light is not coming on, I
cannot test.
So far, the only information I have been able to find, other than all
the MUCH appreciated suggestions and information here, is from this
link: http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl651h.htm
Sorry if this is uber lengthy, but I wanted to clarify as much as
possible. I really appreciate all the responses very much.
Check out my next post for some more info...
~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing>
#128
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start
>Mike Romain wrote:
>First off you say there is a failure issue or fatal error with the
>alarm. It does 'not' work because you cannot program the second key and
>the idiot light is flashing failure at you or not flashing when it
>should which is a failure. Something has to be 'broken' in that
>situation.
Actually, I never said there was a failure here. Sorry if I have
confused you. Let me try to set this straight...
First, neither the alarm nor the security light comes on when I
attempt to start the Jeep, which is normal. Only once did it ever come
on since this start problem began. I believe that *may* have been a
fluke, and I only say that because I do not know enough about the
system and how it all interconnects.
Second, I tried to get a second IR fob over five years ago. I think IF
that were related to this start problem, the problem would have
happened long before now.
>Then you said you have power at the fuel pump relay but no power back at
>the fuel pump.
Correct. Tested near the fgas tank using an OHM, both off, in RUN
position and during cranking and no voltage at any time. Repeated
several more times and results all the same, no voltage. But, someone
said it may be that it should not have voltage, which IMHO, doesn't
sound right. As for the engine relays and box, they all have voltage.
My neighbor and I tested the relays and they all seem to work (click
on/off normally).
>Now you say the key sometime turns on everything properly, but most
>times doesn't.
When you turn the key to RUN, the four dash lights should come on...
1) ABS... 2) Check Engine... 3) Airbag... 4) Fasten Seat Belt
IF all these come on when I turn the key, the Jeep starts.
IF the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, the Jeep does NOT start.
SOMETIMES, if the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, BUT you leave
the key in the RUN position, the light EVENTUALLY comes on and the
Jeep starts. So far, no way to predict if the"Check Engine" light
will come on or not until you turn the key and watch the dash.
Yesterday I had a hard time getting the "Check Engine" light NOT to
come on. Yesterday it seemed to want to work. Today I can't get it to
come on at all... YET.
>I think these are related.
As I said, I do not know enough of the system to be certain, but my
intuition agrees with you. At least so far.
>I would be running a booster cable from the negative battery post to
>something metal on the firewall to see what happens just because I live
>in the rust belt and see too many 'rotted where you can't see them'
>connections.
I will try this over the weekend. But just to let you know, both I and
my neighbor have gone over the wires several times and have not, as of
yet, found or resolved anything via wires.
>Then I would be trying to find out if I could bypass the alarm and
>security key.
I asked this question earlier but only received info on how to test
the security system. No replies on how to disable it.
I "heard" that the dealer will turn it off for $30 but I really want
to avoid spending $60 to turn it on and off if they are not related.
IF anyone knows how to disable the Alarm/Security System, I would
GREATLY appreciate the info!
>Next I would be physically tracing the power from the fuel pump relay to
>see what is between that and the pump itself. I would just take a wild
>guess and figure the alarm has a cut off relay in there.
Both my neighbor and I traced the wires from the engine relay
compartment back and everything seems fine. We also traced forward
from the connection near the fuel tank where we got no voltage but
that line disappears over the axle and into the cabin and we could not
follow.
>Could it be a bad ignition switch causing everything?
I never rule anything out, but it seems tight. I have tried "wiggling"
these wires (as "Scott in Baltimoe" stated), but everything remains
consistant. I tend to think, and I may be wrong, but if it were the
ignition, then the reults and the dash light would be responding
differently. I had a bad ignition once before on a '84 Olds and that
ignition was very loose. That had no bearing on the dahs (idiot)
lights. That's when the dealer told me how many people screw up their
ignitions with heavy keyrings. Ergo, I have split keyring... one side
is Jeep only and the other everything else and the two parts come
apart (Thanks Snap-On!) so weight it minimal.
>Or could the $tealer have screwed the alarm setting when they failed to
>program the second key?
Always a possibility. Since it was over 5 years ago, I really think I
would have seem something occur long before now. Also, the dealer said
they never checked the system in the Jeep, just worked with the IR fob
and I never took it back because it didn't seem worth it since I only
really needed one fob back then. It's rare my spouse uses my Jeep.
When I HAVE gotten the "Check Engine" light to come on, the only test
codes have been 12 and 55. Obviously if the light is not coming on, I
cannot test.
So far, the only information I have been able to find, other than all
the MUCH appreciated suggestions and information here, is from this
link: http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl651h.htm
Sorry if this is uber lengthy, but I wanted to clarify as much as
possible. I really appreciate all the responses very much.
Check out my next post for some more info...
~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing>
>First off you say there is a failure issue or fatal error with the
>alarm. It does 'not' work because you cannot program the second key and
>the idiot light is flashing failure at you or not flashing when it
>should which is a failure. Something has to be 'broken' in that
>situation.
Actually, I never said there was a failure here. Sorry if I have
confused you. Let me try to set this straight...
First, neither the alarm nor the security light comes on when I
attempt to start the Jeep, which is normal. Only once did it ever come
on since this start problem began. I believe that *may* have been a
fluke, and I only say that because I do not know enough about the
system and how it all interconnects.
Second, I tried to get a second IR fob over five years ago. I think IF
that were related to this start problem, the problem would have
happened long before now.
>Then you said you have power at the fuel pump relay but no power back at
>the fuel pump.
Correct. Tested near the fgas tank using an OHM, both off, in RUN
position and during cranking and no voltage at any time. Repeated
several more times and results all the same, no voltage. But, someone
said it may be that it should not have voltage, which IMHO, doesn't
sound right. As for the engine relays and box, they all have voltage.
My neighbor and I tested the relays and they all seem to work (click
on/off normally).
>Now you say the key sometime turns on everything properly, but most
>times doesn't.
When you turn the key to RUN, the four dash lights should come on...
1) ABS... 2) Check Engine... 3) Airbag... 4) Fasten Seat Belt
IF all these come on when I turn the key, the Jeep starts.
IF the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, the Jeep does NOT start.
SOMETIMES, if the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, BUT you leave
the key in the RUN position, the light EVENTUALLY comes on and the
Jeep starts. So far, no way to predict if the"Check Engine" light
will come on or not until you turn the key and watch the dash.
Yesterday I had a hard time getting the "Check Engine" light NOT to
come on. Yesterday it seemed to want to work. Today I can't get it to
come on at all... YET.
>I think these are related.
As I said, I do not know enough of the system to be certain, but my
intuition agrees with you. At least so far.
>I would be running a booster cable from the negative battery post to
>something metal on the firewall to see what happens just because I live
>in the rust belt and see too many 'rotted where you can't see them'
>connections.
I will try this over the weekend. But just to let you know, both I and
my neighbor have gone over the wires several times and have not, as of
yet, found or resolved anything via wires.
>Then I would be trying to find out if I could bypass the alarm and
>security key.
I asked this question earlier but only received info on how to test
the security system. No replies on how to disable it.
I "heard" that the dealer will turn it off for $30 but I really want
to avoid spending $60 to turn it on and off if they are not related.
IF anyone knows how to disable the Alarm/Security System, I would
GREATLY appreciate the info!
>Next I would be physically tracing the power from the fuel pump relay to
>see what is between that and the pump itself. I would just take a wild
>guess and figure the alarm has a cut off relay in there.
Both my neighbor and I traced the wires from the engine relay
compartment back and everything seems fine. We also traced forward
from the connection near the fuel tank where we got no voltage but
that line disappears over the axle and into the cabin and we could not
follow.
>Could it be a bad ignition switch causing everything?
I never rule anything out, but it seems tight. I have tried "wiggling"
these wires (as "Scott in Baltimoe" stated), but everything remains
consistant. I tend to think, and I may be wrong, but if it were the
ignition, then the reults and the dash light would be responding
differently. I had a bad ignition once before on a '84 Olds and that
ignition was very loose. That had no bearing on the dahs (idiot)
lights. That's when the dealer told me how many people screw up their
ignitions with heavy keyrings. Ergo, I have split keyring... one side
is Jeep only and the other everything else and the two parts come
apart (Thanks Snap-On!) so weight it minimal.
>Or could the $tealer have screwed the alarm setting when they failed to
>program the second key?
Always a possibility. Since it was over 5 years ago, I really think I
would have seem something occur long before now. Also, the dealer said
they never checked the system in the Jeep, just worked with the IR fob
and I never took it back because it didn't seem worth it since I only
really needed one fob back then. It's rare my spouse uses my Jeep.
When I HAVE gotten the "Check Engine" light to come on, the only test
codes have been 12 and 55. Obviously if the light is not coming on, I
cannot test.
So far, the only information I have been able to find, other than all
the MUCH appreciated suggestions and information here, is from this
link: http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl651h.htm
Sorry if this is uber lengthy, but I wanted to clarify as much as
possible. I really appreciate all the responses very much.
Check out my next post for some more info...
~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing>
#129
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start
>Mike Romain wrote:
>First off you say there is a failure issue or fatal error with the
>alarm. It does 'not' work because you cannot program the second key and
>the idiot light is flashing failure at you or not flashing when it
>should which is a failure. Something has to be 'broken' in that
>situation.
Actually, I never said there was a failure here. Sorry if I have
confused you. Let me try to set this straight...
First, neither the alarm nor the security light comes on when I
attempt to start the Jeep, which is normal. Only once did it ever come
on since this start problem began. I believe that *may* have been a
fluke, and I only say that because I do not know enough about the
system and how it all interconnects.
Second, I tried to get a second IR fob over five years ago. I think IF
that were related to this start problem, the problem would have
happened long before now.
>Then you said you have power at the fuel pump relay but no power back at
>the fuel pump.
Correct. Tested near the fgas tank using an OHM, both off, in RUN
position and during cranking and no voltage at any time. Repeated
several more times and results all the same, no voltage. But, someone
said it may be that it should not have voltage, which IMHO, doesn't
sound right. As for the engine relays and box, they all have voltage.
My neighbor and I tested the relays and they all seem to work (click
on/off normally).
>Now you say the key sometime turns on everything properly, but most
>times doesn't.
When you turn the key to RUN, the four dash lights should come on...
1) ABS... 2) Check Engine... 3) Airbag... 4) Fasten Seat Belt
IF all these come on when I turn the key, the Jeep starts.
IF the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, the Jeep does NOT start.
SOMETIMES, if the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, BUT you leave
the key in the RUN position, the light EVENTUALLY comes on and the
Jeep starts. So far, no way to predict if the"Check Engine" light
will come on or not until you turn the key and watch the dash.
Yesterday I had a hard time getting the "Check Engine" light NOT to
come on. Yesterday it seemed to want to work. Today I can't get it to
come on at all... YET.
>I think these are related.
As I said, I do not know enough of the system to be certain, but my
intuition agrees with you. At least so far.
>I would be running a booster cable from the negative battery post to
>something metal on the firewall to see what happens just because I live
>in the rust belt and see too many 'rotted where you can't see them'
>connections.
I will try this over the weekend. But just to let you know, both I and
my neighbor have gone over the wires several times and have not, as of
yet, found or resolved anything via wires.
>Then I would be trying to find out if I could bypass the alarm and
>security key.
I asked this question earlier but only received info on how to test
the security system. No replies on how to disable it.
I "heard" that the dealer will turn it off for $30 but I really want
to avoid spending $60 to turn it on and off if they are not related.
IF anyone knows how to disable the Alarm/Security System, I would
GREATLY appreciate the info!
>Next I would be physically tracing the power from the fuel pump relay to
>see what is between that and the pump itself. I would just take a wild
>guess and figure the alarm has a cut off relay in there.
Both my neighbor and I traced the wires from the engine relay
compartment back and everything seems fine. We also traced forward
from the connection near the fuel tank where we got no voltage but
that line disappears over the axle and into the cabin and we could not
follow.
>Could it be a bad ignition switch causing everything?
I never rule anything out, but it seems tight. I have tried "wiggling"
these wires (as "Scott in Baltimoe" stated), but everything remains
consistant. I tend to think, and I may be wrong, but if it were the
ignition, then the reults and the dash light would be responding
differently. I had a bad ignition once before on a '84 Olds and that
ignition was very loose. That had no bearing on the dahs (idiot)
lights. That's when the dealer told me how many people screw up their
ignitions with heavy keyrings. Ergo, I have split keyring... one side
is Jeep only and the other everything else and the two parts come
apart (Thanks Snap-On!) so weight it minimal.
>Or could the $tealer have screwed the alarm setting when they failed to
>program the second key?
Always a possibility. Since it was over 5 years ago, I really think I
would have seem something occur long before now. Also, the dealer said
they never checked the system in the Jeep, just worked with the IR fob
and I never took it back because it didn't seem worth it since I only
really needed one fob back then. It's rare my spouse uses my Jeep.
When I HAVE gotten the "Check Engine" light to come on, the only test
codes have been 12 and 55. Obviously if the light is not coming on, I
cannot test.
So far, the only information I have been able to find, other than all
the MUCH appreciated suggestions and information here, is from this
link: http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl651h.htm
Sorry if this is uber lengthy, but I wanted to clarify as much as
possible. I really appreciate all the responses very much.
Check out my next post for some more info...
~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing>
>First off you say there is a failure issue or fatal error with the
>alarm. It does 'not' work because you cannot program the second key and
>the idiot light is flashing failure at you or not flashing when it
>should which is a failure. Something has to be 'broken' in that
>situation.
Actually, I never said there was a failure here. Sorry if I have
confused you. Let me try to set this straight...
First, neither the alarm nor the security light comes on when I
attempt to start the Jeep, which is normal. Only once did it ever come
on since this start problem began. I believe that *may* have been a
fluke, and I only say that because I do not know enough about the
system and how it all interconnects.
Second, I tried to get a second IR fob over five years ago. I think IF
that were related to this start problem, the problem would have
happened long before now.
>Then you said you have power at the fuel pump relay but no power back at
>the fuel pump.
Correct. Tested near the fgas tank using an OHM, both off, in RUN
position and during cranking and no voltage at any time. Repeated
several more times and results all the same, no voltage. But, someone
said it may be that it should not have voltage, which IMHO, doesn't
sound right. As for the engine relays and box, they all have voltage.
My neighbor and I tested the relays and they all seem to work (click
on/off normally).
>Now you say the key sometime turns on everything properly, but most
>times doesn't.
When you turn the key to RUN, the four dash lights should come on...
1) ABS... 2) Check Engine... 3) Airbag... 4) Fasten Seat Belt
IF all these come on when I turn the key, the Jeep starts.
IF the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, the Jeep does NOT start.
SOMETIMES, if the "Check Engine" light does NOT come on, BUT you leave
the key in the RUN position, the light EVENTUALLY comes on and the
Jeep starts. So far, no way to predict if the"Check Engine" light
will come on or not until you turn the key and watch the dash.
Yesterday I had a hard time getting the "Check Engine" light NOT to
come on. Yesterday it seemed to want to work. Today I can't get it to
come on at all... YET.
>I think these are related.
As I said, I do not know enough of the system to be certain, but my
intuition agrees with you. At least so far.
>I would be running a booster cable from the negative battery post to
>something metal on the firewall to see what happens just because I live
>in the rust belt and see too many 'rotted where you can't see them'
>connections.
I will try this over the weekend. But just to let you know, both I and
my neighbor have gone over the wires several times and have not, as of
yet, found or resolved anything via wires.
>Then I would be trying to find out if I could bypass the alarm and
>security key.
I asked this question earlier but only received info on how to test
the security system. No replies on how to disable it.
I "heard" that the dealer will turn it off for $30 but I really want
to avoid spending $60 to turn it on and off if they are not related.
IF anyone knows how to disable the Alarm/Security System, I would
GREATLY appreciate the info!
>Next I would be physically tracing the power from the fuel pump relay to
>see what is between that and the pump itself. I would just take a wild
>guess and figure the alarm has a cut off relay in there.
Both my neighbor and I traced the wires from the engine relay
compartment back and everything seems fine. We also traced forward
from the connection near the fuel tank where we got no voltage but
that line disappears over the axle and into the cabin and we could not
follow.
>Could it be a bad ignition switch causing everything?
I never rule anything out, but it seems tight. I have tried "wiggling"
these wires (as "Scott in Baltimoe" stated), but everything remains
consistant. I tend to think, and I may be wrong, but if it were the
ignition, then the reults and the dash light would be responding
differently. I had a bad ignition once before on a '84 Olds and that
ignition was very loose. That had no bearing on the dahs (idiot)
lights. That's when the dealer told me how many people screw up their
ignitions with heavy keyrings. Ergo, I have split keyring... one side
is Jeep only and the other everything else and the two parts come
apart (Thanks Snap-On!) so weight it minimal.
>Or could the $tealer have screwed the alarm setting when they failed to
>program the second key?
Always a possibility. Since it was over 5 years ago, I really think I
would have seem something occur long before now. Also, the dealer said
they never checked the system in the Jeep, just worked with the IR fob
and I never took it back because it didn't seem worth it since I only
really needed one fob back then. It's rare my spouse uses my Jeep.
When I HAVE gotten the "Check Engine" light to come on, the only test
codes have been 12 and 55. Obviously if the light is not coming on, I
cannot test.
So far, the only information I have been able to find, other than all
the MUCH appreciated suggestions and information here, is from this
link: http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl651h.htm
Sorry if this is uber lengthy, but I wanted to clarify as much as
possible. I really appreciate all the responses very much.
Check out my next post for some more info...
~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing>
#130
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Cranks, But No Start (0/1)
Since my last post was pretty lengthy, I decided to put my last
comments in a new post along with a couple of small pictures...
Five are post-accident photos. The damage doesn't appear to be very
much, but turned out to be over $3500 to date.
One is pre-accident (and clean!). I was actually taking photos that
particular day of the two spare overhead consoles I have so I could
put them up on eBay. They will soon go on eBay.
I do not want sympathy, but so you understand the basics of my
situation, a year ago I was rear-ended and am still having physical
issues (long boring story here) that make working in some positions
very painful, which is why I love my neighbor's help!
Yes, the vehicle was the Jeep I am having the start problem with, and
it's only been since after the accident that this start problem began.
However the Jeep was repaired. The shop said "bad gas" (crapoline as
Doug calls it) so since I have freshened the tank.
The worst part is while I was recuperating, my employer replaced me,
so for now, the budget is really tight until I once again have gainful
employment. Not having a working sucks, especially to get work.
So, when my neighbor pointed out this group, I jumped at the chance to
get some Jeep info and hopefully save me some labor hours if I could
fix things myself. Again, thank you all for all the suggestions!
~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing>
comments in a new post along with a couple of small pictures...
Five are post-accident photos. The damage doesn't appear to be very
much, but turned out to be over $3500 to date.
One is pre-accident (and clean!). I was actually taking photos that
particular day of the two spare overhead consoles I have so I could
put them up on eBay. They will soon go on eBay.
I do not want sympathy, but so you understand the basics of my
situation, a year ago I was rear-ended and am still having physical
issues (long boring story here) that make working in some positions
very painful, which is why I love my neighbor's help!
Yes, the vehicle was the Jeep I am having the start problem with, and
it's only been since after the accident that this start problem began.
However the Jeep was repaired. The shop said "bad gas" (crapoline as
Doug calls it) so since I have freshened the tank.
The worst part is while I was recuperating, my employer replaced me,
so for now, the budget is really tight until I once again have gainful
employment. Not having a working sucks, especially to get work.
So, when my neighbor pointed out this group, I jumped at the chance to
get some Jeep info and hopefully save me some labor hours if I could
fix things myself. Again, thank you all for all the suggestions!
~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing>