Earle Horton

If you wanted to do it right, you would get a drop pitman arm (of the proper
offset of course) and relocate the track bar both. Then you would maintain
the proper, original steering linkage geometry.

I live in Colorado, which must be the world capitol of lifted vehicles, and
it does appear that very few Jeep owners, or owners of any lifted vehicle
for that matter, have the desire to do the job right. Once they get the
body up there, and the huge tires installed, the posers call it good. Tie
rods pointing in all directions, tiny half ton axles...

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:448AFB2B.835F7F2F@sympatico.ca...
> I am probably way off base here, but don't you just need to relocate the
> track bar with a new bracket on those types of suspension and leave the
> pitman alone?
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Stupendous Man wrote:
> >
> > I went to look at a neighbor's 96 ZJ, (2wd, 2.5 L, bad computer!), and
it
> > has the same pitman arm, so mine is definately stock. I will be ordering
one
> > and then building a steering box brace.
> >
> > --
> > Stupendous Man,
> > Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Earle Horton

If you wanted to do it right, you would get a drop pitman arm (of the proper
offset of course) and relocate the track bar both. Then you would maintain
the proper, original steering linkage geometry.

I live in Colorado, which must be the world capitol of lifted vehicles, and
it does appear that very few Jeep owners, or owners of any lifted vehicle
for that matter, have the desire to do the job right. Once they get the
body up there, and the huge tires installed, the posers call it good. Tie
rods pointing in all directions, tiny half ton axles...

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:448AFB2B.835F7F2F@sympatico.ca...
> I am probably way off base here, but don't you just need to relocate the
> track bar with a new bracket on those types of suspension and leave the
> pitman alone?
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Stupendous Man wrote:
> >
> > I went to look at a neighbor's 96 ZJ, (2wd, 2.5 L, bad computer!), and
it
> > has the same pitman arm, so mine is definately stock. I will be ordering
one
> > and then building a steering box brace.
> >
> > --
> > Stupendous Man,
> > Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Earle Horton

If you wanted to do it right, you would get a drop pitman arm (of the proper
offset of course) and relocate the track bar both. Then you would maintain
the proper, original steering linkage geometry.

I live in Colorado, which must be the world capitol of lifted vehicles, and
it does appear that very few Jeep owners, or owners of any lifted vehicle
for that matter, have the desire to do the job right. Once they get the
body up there, and the huge tires installed, the posers call it good. Tie
rods pointing in all directions, tiny half ton axles...

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:448AFB2B.835F7F2F@sympatico.ca...
> I am probably way off base here, but don't you just need to relocate the
> track bar with a new bracket on those types of suspension and leave the
> pitman alone?
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Stupendous Man wrote:
> >
> > I went to look at a neighbor's 96 ZJ, (2wd, 2.5 L, bad computer!), and
it
> > has the same pitman arm, so mine is definately stock. I will be ordering
one
> > and then building a steering box brace.
> >
> > --
> > Stupendous Man,
> > Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Mike Romain

Oversteering on a curve is not related to the drop pitman arm.

That is more likely to be too soft (too low psi) of tires or miss
matched front to back brands of tires or a shot bushing on the track bar
will cause oversteer. A shot ball joint on the frame end of the track
bar will cause oversteer.

A friend from this group, Snowboardripper had a 4" I think lift put on
and had oversteer. We looked close and found the track bar bushing was
bad and the ends were just plain loose and needed a wrench on them if I
remember right.

One way to tell is to sit inside and cut the steering from pin to pin
while watching the nose of the Jeep or even just rock it right and
left. If the track bar has issues, the nose of the Jeep will go side to
side with the steering. Only the wheels are supposed to move, not the
body of the Jeep.

If you need a pitman arm, the steering wheel will jump radically side to
side when you hit a bump. It can easily move more than 1/4 turn
depending on the bump.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Stupendous Man wrote:
>
> There we go, the King of Links has come thru again. Thanks Bill.
>
> Matt, whatever you call it it oversteers on the curves.
> I'm not sure what you mean here, the stock setup should have parellel rods,
> right?
> Since I have a 4 inch Skyjacker lift, your statement seems to say the
> opposite. A drop pitman arm on a lift is a bad thing?
>
> >The drag
> > link should be parallel to the track bar or you will get bumpsteer. If the
> > DL and TB are parallel you it's a stock pitman and you should be OK. If
> > not, whoever installed the lift installed a drop pitman arm, and that's
> > not good for the front suspension on an XJ, TJ, WJ or MJ.
>
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Mike Romain

Oversteering on a curve is not related to the drop pitman arm.

That is more likely to be too soft (too low psi) of tires or miss
matched front to back brands of tires or a shot bushing on the track bar
will cause oversteer. A shot ball joint on the frame end of the track
bar will cause oversteer.

A friend from this group, Snowboardripper had a 4" I think lift put on
and had oversteer. We looked close and found the track bar bushing was
bad and the ends were just plain loose and needed a wrench on them if I
remember right.

One way to tell is to sit inside and cut the steering from pin to pin
while watching the nose of the Jeep or even just rock it right and
left. If the track bar has issues, the nose of the Jeep will go side to
side with the steering. Only the wheels are supposed to move, not the
body of the Jeep.

If you need a pitman arm, the steering wheel will jump radically side to
side when you hit a bump. It can easily move more than 1/4 turn
depending on the bump.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Stupendous Man wrote:
>
> There we go, the King of Links has come thru again. Thanks Bill.
>
> Matt, whatever you call it it oversteers on the curves.
> I'm not sure what you mean here, the stock setup should have parellel rods,
> right?
> Since I have a 4 inch Skyjacker lift, your statement seems to say the
> opposite. A drop pitman arm on a lift is a bad thing?
>
> >The drag
> > link should be parallel to the track bar or you will get bumpsteer. If the
> > DL and TB are parallel you it's a stock pitman and you should be OK. If
> > not, whoever installed the lift installed a drop pitman arm, and that's
> > not good for the front suspension on an XJ, TJ, WJ or MJ.
>
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Mike Romain

Oversteering on a curve is not related to the drop pitman arm.

That is more likely to be too soft (too low psi) of tires or miss
matched front to back brands of tires or a shot bushing on the track bar
will cause oversteer. A shot ball joint on the frame end of the track
bar will cause oversteer.

A friend from this group, Snowboardripper had a 4" I think lift put on
and had oversteer. We looked close and found the track bar bushing was
bad and the ends were just plain loose and needed a wrench on them if I
remember right.

One way to tell is to sit inside and cut the steering from pin to pin
while watching the nose of the Jeep or even just rock it right and
left. If the track bar has issues, the nose of the Jeep will go side to
side with the steering. Only the wheels are supposed to move, not the
body of the Jeep.

If you need a pitman arm, the steering wheel will jump radically side to
side when you hit a bump. It can easily move more than 1/4 turn
depending on the bump.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Stupendous Man wrote:
>
> There we go, the King of Links has come thru again. Thanks Bill.
>
> Matt, whatever you call it it oversteers on the curves.
> I'm not sure what you mean here, the stock setup should have parellel rods,
> right?
> Since I have a 4 inch Skyjacker lift, your statement seems to say the
> opposite. A drop pitman arm on a lift is a bad thing?
>
> >The drag
> > link should be parallel to the track bar or you will get bumpsteer. If the
> > DL and TB are parallel you it's a stock pitman and you should be OK. If
> > not, whoever installed the lift installed a drop pitman arm, and that's
> > not good for the front suspension on an XJ, TJ, WJ or MJ.
>
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Mike Romain

He is only talking 10 deg. or so. I would think the track bar bracket
might do the trick. Or nothing at all might be needed. He isn't
describing bump steer but oversteer. Maybe a bad track bar end?

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> If you wanted to do it right, you would get a drop pitman arm (of the proper
> offset of course) and relocate the track bar both. Then you would maintain
> the proper, original steering linkage geometry.
>
> I live in Colorado, which must be the world capitol of lifted vehicles, and
> it does appear that very few Jeep owners, or owners of any lifted vehicle
> for that matter, have the desire to do the job right. Once they get the
> body up there, and the huge tires installed, the posers call it good. Tie
> rods pointing in all directions, tiny half ton axles...
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:448AFB2B.835F7F2F@sympatico.ca...
> > I am probably way off base here, but don't you just need to relocate the
> > track bar with a new bracket on those types of suspension and leave the
> > pitman alone?
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > Stupendous Man wrote:
> > >
> > > I went to look at a neighbor's 96 ZJ, (2wd, 2.5 L, bad computer!), and
> it
> > > has the same pitman arm, so mine is definately stock. I will be ordering
> one
> > > and then building a steering box brace.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Stupendous Man,
> > > Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Mike Romain

He is only talking 10 deg. or so. I would think the track bar bracket
might do the trick. Or nothing at all might be needed. He isn't
describing bump steer but oversteer. Maybe a bad track bar end?

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> If you wanted to do it right, you would get a drop pitman arm (of the proper
> offset of course) and relocate the track bar both. Then you would maintain
> the proper, original steering linkage geometry.
>
> I live in Colorado, which must be the world capitol of lifted vehicles, and
> it does appear that very few Jeep owners, or owners of any lifted vehicle
> for that matter, have the desire to do the job right. Once they get the
> body up there, and the huge tires installed, the posers call it good. Tie
> rods pointing in all directions, tiny half ton axles...
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:448AFB2B.835F7F2F@sympatico.ca...
> > I am probably way off base here, but don't you just need to relocate the
> > track bar with a new bracket on those types of suspension and leave the
> > pitman alone?
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > Stupendous Man wrote:
> > >
> > > I went to look at a neighbor's 96 ZJ, (2wd, 2.5 L, bad computer!), and
> it
> > > has the same pitman arm, so mine is definately stock. I will be ordering
> one
> > > and then building a steering box brace.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Stupendous Man,
> > > Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Mike Romain

He is only talking 10 deg. or so. I would think the track bar bracket
might do the trick. Or nothing at all might be needed. He isn't
describing bump steer but oversteer. Maybe a bad track bar end?

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> If you wanted to do it right, you would get a drop pitman arm (of the proper
> offset of course) and relocate the track bar both. Then you would maintain
> the proper, original steering linkage geometry.
>
> I live in Colorado, which must be the world capitol of lifted vehicles, and
> it does appear that very few Jeep owners, or owners of any lifted vehicle
> for that matter, have the desire to do the job right. Once they get the
> body up there, and the huge tires installed, the posers call it good. Tie
> rods pointing in all directions, tiny half ton axles...
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:448AFB2B.835F7F2F@sympatico.ca...
> > I am probably way off base here, but don't you just need to relocate the
> > track bar with a new bracket on those types of suspension and leave the
> > pitman alone?
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > Stupendous Man wrote:
> > >
> > > I went to look at a neighbor's 96 ZJ, (2wd, 2.5 L, bad computer!), and
> it
> > > has the same pitman arm, so mine is definately stock. I will be ordering
> one
> > > and then building a steering box brace.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Stupendous Man,
> > > Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Earle Horton

Maybe, another rule is to never install a lift kit, or indeed any
performance enhancement, without making sure that all the base components
are in good condition, bolts are tight, bushings are tight, alignment is
within specs, tire pressure is reasonable and so forth. And then once you
have your performance enhancements installed, mindful of the increased wear
that is now likely, increase the frequency of maintenance inspections.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:448C436B.6888F8E1@sympatico.ca...
> He is only talking 10 deg. or so. I would think the track bar bracket
> might do the trick. Or nothing at all might be needed. He isn't
> describing bump steer but oversteer. Maybe a bad track bar end?
>
> Mike
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >
> > If you wanted to do it right, you would get a drop pitman arm (of the
proper
> > offset of course) and relocate the track bar both. Then you would
maintain
> > the proper, original steering linkage geometry.
> >
> > I live in Colorado, which must be the world capitol of lifted vehicles,
and
> > it does appear that very few Jeep owners, or owners of any lifted
vehicle
> > for that matter, have the desire to do the job right. Once they get the
> > body up there, and the huge tires installed, the posers call it good.
Tie
> > rods pointing in all directions, tiny half ton axles...
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:448AFB2B.835F7F2F@sympatico.ca...
> > > I am probably way off base here, but don't you just need to relocate
the
> > > track bar with a new bracket on those types of suspension and leave
the
> > > pitman alone?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > Stupendous Man wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I went to look at a neighbor's 96 ZJ, (2wd, 2.5 L, bad computer!),
and
> > it
> > > > has the same pitman arm, so mine is definately stock. I will be
ordering
> > one
> > > > and then building a steering box brace.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Stupendous Man,
> > > > Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty