89 Chero auto trans mods, steering?
06-09-2006, 12:44 PM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 89 Chero auto trans mods, steering?
Historical note: On CJs, YJs, FSJs and other vehicles with proper leaf
springs on the front, you had to have a drop pitman arm with a lift kit,
because the link from the pitman arm to the knuckle is designed to be
horizontal in the rest position. On your vehicles with wussy coil spring
front suspensions, there is a different steering link design, where it is
more important that the links be parallel. Here use of a drop pitman arm is
contraindicated. From what I have read here, some of the manufacturers of
lift kits for these vehicles include a drop pitman arm, because customers
expect it, because they can charge markup on it, or for some other reason
not related to sound engineering principles.
Earle
"Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:4etjloF1gcphaU1@individual.net...
> There we go, the King of Links has come thru again. Thanks Bill.
>
>
> Matt, whatever you call it it oversteers on the curves.
> I'm not sure what you mean here, the stock setup should have parellel
rods,
> right?
> Since I have a 4 inch Skyjacker lift, your statement seems to say the
> opposite. A drop pitman arm on a lift is a bad thing?
>
> >The drag
> > link should be parallel to the track bar or you will get bumpsteer. If
the
> > DL and TB are parallel you it's a stock pitman and you should be OK. If
> > not, whoever installed the lift installed a drop pitman arm, and that's
> > not good for the front suspension on an XJ, TJ, WJ or MJ.
>
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
springs on the front, you had to have a drop pitman arm with a lift kit,
because the link from the pitman arm to the knuckle is designed to be
horizontal in the rest position. On your vehicles with wussy coil spring
front suspensions, there is a different steering link design, where it is
more important that the links be parallel. Here use of a drop pitman arm is
contraindicated. From what I have read here, some of the manufacturers of
lift kits for these vehicles include a drop pitman arm, because customers
expect it, because they can charge markup on it, or for some other reason
not related to sound engineering principles.
Earle
"Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:4etjloF1gcphaU1@individual.net...
> There we go, the King of Links has come thru again. Thanks Bill.
>
>
> Matt, whatever you call it it oversteers on the curves.
> I'm not sure what you mean here, the stock setup should have parellel
rods,
> right?
> Since I have a 4 inch Skyjacker lift, your statement seems to say the
> opposite. A drop pitman arm on a lift is a bad thing?
>
> >The drag
> > link should be parallel to the track bar or you will get bumpsteer. If
the
> > DL and TB are parallel you it's a stock pitman and you should be OK. If
> > not, whoever installed the lift installed a drop pitman arm, and that's
> > not good for the front suspension on an XJ, TJ, WJ or MJ.
>
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
06-09-2006, 12:44 PM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 89 Chero auto trans mods, steering?
Historical note: On CJs, YJs, FSJs and other vehicles with proper leaf
springs on the front, you had to have a drop pitman arm with a lift kit,
because the link from the pitman arm to the knuckle is designed to be
horizontal in the rest position. On your vehicles with wussy coil spring
front suspensions, there is a different steering link design, where it is
more important that the links be parallel. Here use of a drop pitman arm is
contraindicated. From what I have read here, some of the manufacturers of
lift kits for these vehicles include a drop pitman arm, because customers
expect it, because they can charge markup on it, or for some other reason
not related to sound engineering principles.
Earle
"Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:4etjloF1gcphaU1@individual.net...
> There we go, the King of Links has come thru again. Thanks Bill.
>
>
> Matt, whatever you call it it oversteers on the curves.
> I'm not sure what you mean here, the stock setup should have parellel
rods,
> right?
> Since I have a 4 inch Skyjacker lift, your statement seems to say the
> opposite. A drop pitman arm on a lift is a bad thing?
>
> >The drag
> > link should be parallel to the track bar or you will get bumpsteer. If
the
> > DL and TB are parallel you it's a stock pitman and you should be OK. If
> > not, whoever installed the lift installed a drop pitman arm, and that's
> > not good for the front suspension on an XJ, TJ, WJ or MJ.
>
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
springs on the front, you had to have a drop pitman arm with a lift kit,
because the link from the pitman arm to the knuckle is designed to be
horizontal in the rest position. On your vehicles with wussy coil spring
front suspensions, there is a different steering link design, where it is
more important that the links be parallel. Here use of a drop pitman arm is
contraindicated. From what I have read here, some of the manufacturers of
lift kits for these vehicles include a drop pitman arm, because customers
expect it, because they can charge markup on it, or for some other reason
not related to sound engineering principles.
Earle
"Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:4etjloF1gcphaU1@individual.net...
> There we go, the King of Links has come thru again. Thanks Bill.
>
>
> Matt, whatever you call it it oversteers on the curves.
> I'm not sure what you mean here, the stock setup should have parellel
rods,
> right?
> Since I have a 4 inch Skyjacker lift, your statement seems to say the
> opposite. A drop pitman arm on a lift is a bad thing?
>
> >The drag
> > link should be parallel to the track bar or you will get bumpsteer. If
the
> > DL and TB are parallel you it's a stock pitman and you should be OK. If
> > not, whoever installed the lift installed a drop pitman arm, and that's
> > not good for the front suspension on an XJ, TJ, WJ or MJ.
>
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
06-09-2006, 05:54 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 89 Chero auto trans mods, steering?
I looked at the diagram of the steering components in the TJ FSM, and I just
couldn't figure out, why the engineers would take a system that works, and
is possible to understand, and morph it into something like that. After you
look at it a while, it starts to make some sense. How it works that is, not
why they use the newer system. The important thing is that the track bar
and the drag link be parallel, or approximately so, in the steering neutral,
straight ahead, suspension neutral position. If you look at one of these
front ends, and imagine the axle or the vehicle bouncing up and down, then
it looks as if the track bar and the drag link follow each other fairly
closely, with respect to angle, for quite a bit of spring travel.
For a mild lift kit, they stay parallel enough, that a drop pitman arm would
not be needed at all. For a more radical lift, then a mild drop pitman may
be needed. From the pictures, I am thinking half the drop, that would be
required with a YJ for example. Lowering the steering box would not be
practical, although theoretically it would work. I hope this is some help.
I don't have this type of steering myself. I have seen Cherokees, where it
looks almost as if the drag link and the tie rod are both pointing straight
down, and I have thought, "That can't be right!" But you have to look at
the alignment between the track bar and the drag link, if there are bump
steer problems. As always, the steering should be aligned properly too.
Dropping or raising the suspension affects that, in a way that is different
from the YJ/CJ steering linkage.
Earle
"Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:4ettsvF1glkq2U1@individual.net...
> Ok, if a drop pitman arm is not recommended, what is the solution to get
the
> arms parellel? lower the steering box?
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>
>
couldn't figure out, why the engineers would take a system that works, and
is possible to understand, and morph it into something like that. After you
look at it a while, it starts to make some sense. How it works that is, not
why they use the newer system. The important thing is that the track bar
and the drag link be parallel, or approximately so, in the steering neutral,
straight ahead, suspension neutral position. If you look at one of these
front ends, and imagine the axle or the vehicle bouncing up and down, then
it looks as if the track bar and the drag link follow each other fairly
closely, with respect to angle, for quite a bit of spring travel.
For a mild lift kit, they stay parallel enough, that a drop pitman arm would
not be needed at all. For a more radical lift, then a mild drop pitman may
be needed. From the pictures, I am thinking half the drop, that would be
required with a YJ for example. Lowering the steering box would not be
practical, although theoretically it would work. I hope this is some help.
I don't have this type of steering myself. I have seen Cherokees, where it
looks almost as if the drag link and the tie rod are both pointing straight
down, and I have thought, "That can't be right!" But you have to look at
the alignment between the track bar and the drag link, if there are bump
steer problems. As always, the steering should be aligned properly too.
Dropping or raising the suspension affects that, in a way that is different
from the YJ/CJ steering linkage.
Earle
"Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:4ettsvF1glkq2U1@individual.net...
> Ok, if a drop pitman arm is not recommended, what is the solution to get
the
> arms parellel? lower the steering box?
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>
>
06-09-2006, 05:54 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 89 Chero auto trans mods, steering?
I looked at the diagram of the steering components in the TJ FSM, and I just
couldn't figure out, why the engineers would take a system that works, and
is possible to understand, and morph it into something like that. After you
look at it a while, it starts to make some sense. How it works that is, not
why they use the newer system. The important thing is that the track bar
and the drag link be parallel, or approximately so, in the steering neutral,
straight ahead, suspension neutral position. If you look at one of these
front ends, and imagine the axle or the vehicle bouncing up and down, then
it looks as if the track bar and the drag link follow each other fairly
closely, with respect to angle, for quite a bit of spring travel.
For a mild lift kit, they stay parallel enough, that a drop pitman arm would
not be needed at all. For a more radical lift, then a mild drop pitman may
be needed. From the pictures, I am thinking half the drop, that would be
required with a YJ for example. Lowering the steering box would not be
practical, although theoretically it would work. I hope this is some help.
I don't have this type of steering myself. I have seen Cherokees, where it
looks almost as if the drag link and the tie rod are both pointing straight
down, and I have thought, "That can't be right!" But you have to look at
the alignment between the track bar and the drag link, if there are bump
steer problems. As always, the steering should be aligned properly too.
Dropping or raising the suspension affects that, in a way that is different
from the YJ/CJ steering linkage.
Earle
"Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:4ettsvF1glkq2U1@individual.net...
> Ok, if a drop pitman arm is not recommended, what is the solution to get
the
> arms parellel? lower the steering box?
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>
>
couldn't figure out, why the engineers would take a system that works, and
is possible to understand, and morph it into something like that. After you
look at it a while, it starts to make some sense. How it works that is, not
why they use the newer system. The important thing is that the track bar
and the drag link be parallel, or approximately so, in the steering neutral,
straight ahead, suspension neutral position. If you look at one of these
front ends, and imagine the axle or the vehicle bouncing up and down, then
it looks as if the track bar and the drag link follow each other fairly
closely, with respect to angle, for quite a bit of spring travel.
For a mild lift kit, they stay parallel enough, that a drop pitman arm would
not be needed at all. For a more radical lift, then a mild drop pitman may
be needed. From the pictures, I am thinking half the drop, that would be
required with a YJ for example. Lowering the steering box would not be
practical, although theoretically it would work. I hope this is some help.
I don't have this type of steering myself. I have seen Cherokees, where it
looks almost as if the drag link and the tie rod are both pointing straight
down, and I have thought, "That can't be right!" But you have to look at
the alignment between the track bar and the drag link, if there are bump
steer problems. As always, the steering should be aligned properly too.
Dropping or raising the suspension affects that, in a way that is different
from the YJ/CJ steering linkage.
Earle
"Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:4ettsvF1glkq2U1@individual.net...
> Ok, if a drop pitman arm is not recommended, what is the solution to get
the
> arms parellel? lower the steering box?
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>
>
06-09-2006, 05:54 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 89 Chero auto trans mods, steering?
I looked at the diagram of the steering components in the TJ FSM, and I just
couldn't figure out, why the engineers would take a system that works, and
is possible to understand, and morph it into something like that. After you
look at it a while, it starts to make some sense. How it works that is, not
why they use the newer system. The important thing is that the track bar
and the drag link be parallel, or approximately so, in the steering neutral,
straight ahead, suspension neutral position. If you look at one of these
front ends, and imagine the axle or the vehicle bouncing up and down, then
it looks as if the track bar and the drag link follow each other fairly
closely, with respect to angle, for quite a bit of spring travel.
For a mild lift kit, they stay parallel enough, that a drop pitman arm would
not be needed at all. For a more radical lift, then a mild drop pitman may
be needed. From the pictures, I am thinking half the drop, that would be
required with a YJ for example. Lowering the steering box would not be
practical, although theoretically it would work. I hope this is some help.
I don't have this type of steering myself. I have seen Cherokees, where it
looks almost as if the drag link and the tie rod are both pointing straight
down, and I have thought, "That can't be right!" But you have to look at
the alignment between the track bar and the drag link, if there are bump
steer problems. As always, the steering should be aligned properly too.
Dropping or raising the suspension affects that, in a way that is different
from the YJ/CJ steering linkage.
Earle
"Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:4ettsvF1glkq2U1@individual.net...
> Ok, if a drop pitman arm is not recommended, what is the solution to get
the
> arms parellel? lower the steering box?
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>
>
couldn't figure out, why the engineers would take a system that works, and
is possible to understand, and morph it into something like that. After you
look at it a while, it starts to make some sense. How it works that is, not
why they use the newer system. The important thing is that the track bar
and the drag link be parallel, or approximately so, in the steering neutral,
straight ahead, suspension neutral position. If you look at one of these
front ends, and imagine the axle or the vehicle bouncing up and down, then
it looks as if the track bar and the drag link follow each other fairly
closely, with respect to angle, for quite a bit of spring travel.
For a mild lift kit, they stay parallel enough, that a drop pitman arm would
not be needed at all. For a more radical lift, then a mild drop pitman may
be needed. From the pictures, I am thinking half the drop, that would be
required with a YJ for example. Lowering the steering box would not be
practical, although theoretically it would work. I hope this is some help.
I don't have this type of steering myself. I have seen Cherokees, where it
looks almost as if the drag link and the tie rod are both pointing straight
down, and I have thought, "That can't be right!" But you have to look at
the alignment between the track bar and the drag link, if there are bump
steer problems. As always, the steering should be aligned properly too.
Dropping or raising the suspension affects that, in a way that is different
from the YJ/CJ steering linkage.
Earle
"Stupendous Man" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:4ettsvF1glkq2U1@individual.net...
> Ok, if a drop pitman arm is not recommended, what is the solution to get
the
> arms parellel? lower the steering box?
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>
>
06-09-2006, 08:13 PM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 89 Chero auto trans mods, steering?
Hi Pete,
You're just loosing traction with the road, better shocks may solve
your problem. Bump steer, you may notice when you brake hard and the
Jeep noses down and turns right, and then back left upon release. Most
of us just get used to it rather than lower the tie rods (drag link on
wannabees) in harms way.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Pete Stolz wrote:
>
> By bumpsteer, do you mean that each time you go over a bump the thing wants
> to pitch sideways? I have this problem with my '02 Durango when I go over a
> particular set of bumpy railroad tracks on a curved road at about 45 mph.
> The dealership said "huh?"
> Pete
You're just loosing traction with the road, better shocks may solve
your problem. Bump steer, you may notice when you brake hard and the
Jeep noses down and turns right, and then back left upon release. Most
of us just get used to it rather than lower the tie rods (drag link on
wannabees) in harms way.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Pete Stolz wrote:
>
> By bumpsteer, do you mean that each time you go over a bump the thing wants
> to pitch sideways? I have this problem with my '02 Durango when I go over a
> particular set of bumpy railroad tracks on a curved road at about 45 mph.
> The dealership said "huh?"
> Pete
06-09-2006, 08:13 PM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 89 Chero auto trans mods, steering?
Hi Pete,
You're just loosing traction with the road, better shocks may solve
your problem. Bump steer, you may notice when you brake hard and the
Jeep noses down and turns right, and then back left upon release. Most
of us just get used to it rather than lower the tie rods (drag link on
wannabees) in harms way.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Pete Stolz wrote:
>
> By bumpsteer, do you mean that each time you go over a bump the thing wants
> to pitch sideways? I have this problem with my '02 Durango when I go over a
> particular set of bumpy railroad tracks on a curved road at about 45 mph.
> The dealership said "huh?"
> Pete
You're just loosing traction with the road, better shocks may solve
your problem. Bump steer, you may notice when you brake hard and the
Jeep noses down and turns right, and then back left upon release. Most
of us just get used to it rather than lower the tie rods (drag link on
wannabees) in harms way.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Pete Stolz wrote:
>
> By bumpsteer, do you mean that each time you go over a bump the thing wants
> to pitch sideways? I have this problem with my '02 Durango when I go over a
> particular set of bumpy railroad tracks on a curved road at about 45 mph.
> The dealership said "huh?"
> Pete