Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
 

I went down to the garage and picked the Jeep up today. I had a broken
driver's side door pull and had them price that, but when I heard about the
frame problem I stopped all work. When I went to get in the Jeep, the latch
assembly was laying in pieces on the floorboard, so I had to wait for a
mechanic to put it back together in the pariking lot. The good news was
first, I watched him put it back together, so if I can get the part ( a
driver's door latch assembly), I'm sure I can do that myself. Second, we had
a nice chat about the car. He didn't do the inspection, but we got under it
and he pointed some stuff out. For the most part the frame, (and the Jeep in
in general) is virtually rust free. There is a middle section that looks
like there is a sheet metal pan attached to it, I think this holds up the
gas tank or shields it, and that section is rusted and the pan is in pieces
(I suspect because mechanics have been poking around the rust so much as I
never noticed it before). Anyway, he said fabricators and race shops make
frames all the time. He seems to think that it needs to go on a lift, a
brace needs to be tacked on both sides to hold it while the bad section is
cut out, then a new fabricated piece is welded in. He says the bad section
doesn't have places where other parts are bolted on etc..fairly simple. He
seems to think it'll cost between $800 and $1000 and the owner of the shop
a) doesn't have the equipment/experience and 2) the shop wouldn't make any
real money on the repair like it makes on other less complicated routine
stuff that they can turn over quickly. Anyway, it's sitting in front of my
house and I think I'll get some more opinions before I try to locate a
replacement frame.

Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
 

I went down to the garage and picked the Jeep up today. I had a broken
driver's side door pull and had them price that, but when I heard about the
frame problem I stopped all work. When I went to get in the Jeep, the latch
assembly was laying in pieces on the floorboard, so I had to wait for a
mechanic to put it back together in the pariking lot. The good news was
first, I watched him put it back together, so if I can get the part ( a
driver's door latch assembly), I'm sure I can do that myself. Second, we had
a nice chat about the car. He didn't do the inspection, but we got under it
and he pointed some stuff out. For the most part the frame, (and the Jeep in
in general) is virtually rust free. There is a middle section that looks
like there is a sheet metal pan attached to it, I think this holds up the
gas tank or shields it, and that section is rusted and the pan is in pieces
(I suspect because mechanics have been poking around the rust so much as I
never noticed it before). Anyway, he said fabricators and race shops make
frames all the time. He seems to think that it needs to go on a lift, a
brace needs to be tacked on both sides to hold it while the bad section is
cut out, then a new fabricated piece is welded in. He says the bad section
doesn't have places where other parts are bolted on etc..fairly simple. He
seems to think it'll cost between $800 and $1000 and the owner of the shop
a) doesn't have the equipment/experience and 2) the shop wouldn't make any
real money on the repair like it makes on other less complicated routine
stuff that they can turn over quickly. Anyway, it's sitting in front of my
house and I think I'll get some more opinions before I try to locate a
replacement frame.

Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
 

SnoMan wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:01:30 -0600, "Earle Horton"
> <apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote:
>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>> ...
>>> Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic
>>> do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last
>>> century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my
>>> time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not
>>> that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no
>>> body in the way.
>>>
>> I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled,
>> welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you
>> need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic
>> this guy has is over his head, really.
>>
>> Earle
>>
>
>
> The problem is the basic frame design. Jeep used a thin gauge high
> strength alloy frame and rust can take its toll on it and if you try
> to repair it you will speen a lot of time trying to piece it togehter
> and fine a strong place to weld too then if you do not do this right,
> the new material will create stress in a new area on metal that may be
> weaked by rust too. You could have some custom hat sections made up to
> restore weak areas but that would not be cheap either. Another thought
> is if you can find another frame you could use part of it to splits
> repair the existing frame and not have to replace complete frame. If
> it was mine and the rest of the frame was good I would try this method
> first I think. If I replaced the complete frame I would use a shortend
> P/U frame as I stated earlier because it is a lot stronger and would
> never rust out during the rest of its service life. If you just have a
> local welder weld in some odd pieces this will not likely create a
> good fix. Whithout seeing the actual damage it is hard to say for sure
> the best possible repair solution.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Snoman, do you actually 'read' what you are replying to?

You seem to cut out thread parts, then reply with complete nonsense to
the parts you have cut out and pasted. This makes you look like an
insane idiot sometimes. Sorry about the language, but man oh man....

Do you do this on purpose or do you have no clue how to trim a thread?
From what I have read on several groups, you do this consistently.

Maybe you should leave the thread snipping alone and just reply to the
whole thing????

Either that or learn how to snip.

On this post in particular you tossed the statement you 'appear to be'
replying to and replied with total nonsense in the context of your snip.
We are talking about replacing a rolling chassis in your snip, yet you
are babbling on about rust???

Unless you enjoy the abuse, because you sure set yourself up for it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
 

SnoMan wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:01:30 -0600, "Earle Horton"
> <apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote:
>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>> ...
>>> Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic
>>> do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last
>>> century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my
>>> time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not
>>> that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no
>>> body in the way.
>>>
>> I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled,
>> welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you
>> need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic
>> this guy has is over his head, really.
>>
>> Earle
>>
>
>
> The problem is the basic frame design. Jeep used a thin gauge high
> strength alloy frame and rust can take its toll on it and if you try
> to repair it you will speen a lot of time trying to piece it togehter
> and fine a strong place to weld too then if you do not do this right,
> the new material will create stress in a new area on metal that may be
> weaked by rust too. You could have some custom hat sections made up to
> restore weak areas but that would not be cheap either. Another thought
> is if you can find another frame you could use part of it to splits
> repair the existing frame and not have to replace complete frame. If
> it was mine and the rest of the frame was good I would try this method
> first I think. If I replaced the complete frame I would use a shortend
> P/U frame as I stated earlier because it is a lot stronger and would
> never rust out during the rest of its service life. If you just have a
> local welder weld in some odd pieces this will not likely create a
> good fix. Whithout seeing the actual damage it is hard to say for sure
> the best possible repair solution.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Snoman, do you actually 'read' what you are replying to?

You seem to cut out thread parts, then reply with complete nonsense to
the parts you have cut out and pasted. This makes you look like an
insane idiot sometimes. Sorry about the language, but man oh man....

Do you do this on purpose or do you have no clue how to trim a thread?
From what I have read on several groups, you do this consistently.

Maybe you should leave the thread snipping alone and just reply to the
whole thing????

Either that or learn how to snip.

On this post in particular you tossed the statement you 'appear to be'
replying to and replied with total nonsense in the context of your snip.
We are talking about replacing a rolling chassis in your snip, yet you
are babbling on about rust???

Unless you enjoy the abuse, because you sure set yourself up for it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
 

SnoMan wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:01:30 -0600, "Earle Horton"
> <apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote:
>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>> ...
>>> Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic
>>> do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last
>>> century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my
>>> time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not
>>> that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no
>>> body in the way.
>>>
>> I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled,
>> welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you
>> need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic
>> this guy has is over his head, really.
>>
>> Earle
>>
>
>
> The problem is the basic frame design. Jeep used a thin gauge high
> strength alloy frame and rust can take its toll on it and if you try
> to repair it you will speen a lot of time trying to piece it togehter
> and fine a strong place to weld too then if you do not do this right,
> the new material will create stress in a new area on metal that may be
> weaked by rust too. You could have some custom hat sections made up to
> restore weak areas but that would not be cheap either. Another thought
> is if you can find another frame you could use part of it to splits
> repair the existing frame and not have to replace complete frame. If
> it was mine and the rest of the frame was good I would try this method
> first I think. If I replaced the complete frame I would use a shortend
> P/U frame as I stated earlier because it is a lot stronger and would
> never rust out during the rest of its service life. If you just have a
> local welder weld in some odd pieces this will not likely create a
> good fix. Whithout seeing the actual damage it is hard to say for sure
> the best possible repair solution.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Snoman, do you actually 'read' what you are replying to?

You seem to cut out thread parts, then reply with complete nonsense to
the parts you have cut out and pasted. This makes you look like an
insane idiot sometimes. Sorry about the language, but man oh man....

Do you do this on purpose or do you have no clue how to trim a thread?
From what I have read on several groups, you do this consistently.

Maybe you should leave the thread snipping alone and just reply to the
whole thing????

Either that or learn how to snip.

On this post in particular you tossed the statement you 'appear to be'
replying to and replied with total nonsense in the context of your snip.
We are talking about replacing a rolling chassis in your snip, yet you
are babbling on about rust???

Unless you enjoy the abuse, because you sure set yourself up for it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
 

SnoMan wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:01:30 -0600, "Earle Horton"
> <apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote:
>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>> ...
>>> Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic
>>> do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last
>>> century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my
>>> time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not
>>> that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no
>>> body in the way.
>>>
>> I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled,
>> welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you
>> need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic
>> this guy has is over his head, really.
>>
>> Earle
>>
>
>
> The problem is the basic frame design. Jeep used a thin gauge high
> strength alloy frame and rust can take its toll on it and if you try
> to repair it you will speen a lot of time trying to piece it togehter
> and fine a strong place to weld too then if you do not do this right,
> the new material will create stress in a new area on metal that may be
> weaked by rust too. You could have some custom hat sections made up to
> restore weak areas but that would not be cheap either. Another thought
> is if you can find another frame you could use part of it to splits
> repair the existing frame and not have to replace complete frame. If
> it was mine and the rest of the frame was good I would try this method
> first I think. If I replaced the complete frame I would use a shortend
> P/U frame as I stated earlier because it is a lot stronger and would
> never rust out during the rest of its service life. If you just have a
> local welder weld in some odd pieces this will not likely create a
> good fix. Whithout seeing the actual damage it is hard to say for sure
> the best possible repair solution.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Snoman, do you actually 'read' what you are replying to?

You seem to cut out thread parts, then reply with complete nonsense to
the parts you have cut out and pasted. This makes you look like an
insane idiot sometimes. Sorry about the language, but man oh man....

Do you do this on purpose or do you have no clue how to trim a thread?
From what I have read on several groups, you do this consistently.

Maybe you should leave the thread snipping alone and just reply to the
whole thing????

Either that or learn how to snip.

On this post in particular you tossed the statement you 'appear to be'
replying to and replied with total nonsense in the context of your snip.
We are talking about replacing a rolling chassis in your snip, yet you
are babbling on about rust???

Unless you enjoy the abuse, because you sure set yourself up for it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
 

http://www.4wd.com/productdetails.aspx?pid=57611

A replacement frame for a CJ is $1,799.99. This is made by a company that
has done a few of them, so some economy of scale kicks in. A Wagoneer frame
would have to be a one-off, so maybe double the price, plus shipping, plus
installation. It is true that "fabricators and race shops make frames all
the time" but it is just not a reasonable alternative for a 1988 Wagoneer,
unless you are totally in love with the vehicle and have lots of money
besides. I really believe that the folks you are dealing with are way over
their heads on this one. I suggest taking the vehicle to a "restoration
shop", labelled as such in the Yellow Pages, for a dose of reality.

Another thing your mechanic didn't mention is that people who repair frames
have to make money too, and someone has to pay for all that fancy equipment
they have and absorb the cost of the steel inventory they need, to be able
to take jobs like this. That one foot piece of frame that needs to be
welded in, has been sitting on someone's rack for twenty years, and you are
expected to pay back rent.

Sometimes you just have to let them go.

Saludos,

Earle

"Mark Corbelli" <m_corbelli@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4P9Vh.6029$0S1.1405@trnddc01...
> I went down to the garage and picked the Jeep up today. I had a broken
> driver's side door pull and had them price that, but when I heard about
the
> frame problem I stopped all work. When I went to get in the Jeep, the
latch
> assembly was laying in pieces on the floorboard, so I had to wait for a
> mechanic to put it back together in the pariking lot. The good news was
> first, I watched him put it back together, so if I can get the part ( a
> driver's door latch assembly), I'm sure I can do that myself. Second, we
had
> a nice chat about the car. He didn't do the inspection, but we got under
it
> and he pointed some stuff out. For the most part the frame, (and the Jeep
in
> in general) is virtually rust free. There is a middle section that looks
> like there is a sheet metal pan attached to it, I think this holds up the
> gas tank or shields it, and that section is rusted and the pan is in
pieces
> (I suspect because mechanics have been poking around the rust so much as I
> never noticed it before). Anyway, he said fabricators and race shops make
> frames all the time. He seems to think that it needs to go on a lift, a
> brace needs to be tacked on both sides to hold it while the bad section is
> cut out, then a new fabricated piece is welded in. He says the bad section
> doesn't have places where other parts are bolted on etc..fairly simple. He
> seems to think it'll cost between $800 and $1000 and the owner of the shop
> a) doesn't have the equipment/experience and 2) the shop wouldn't make any
> real money on the repair like it makes on other less complicated routine
> stuff that they can turn over quickly. Anyway, it's sitting in front of my
> house and I think I'll get some more opinions before I try to locate a
> replacement frame.
>
>

Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
 

http://www.4wd.com/productdetails.aspx?pid=57611

A replacement frame for a CJ is $1,799.99. This is made by a company that
has done a few of them, so some economy of scale kicks in. A Wagoneer frame
would have to be a one-off, so maybe double the price, plus shipping, plus
installation. It is true that "fabricators and race shops make frames all
the time" but it is just not a reasonable alternative for a 1988 Wagoneer,
unless you are totally in love with the vehicle and have lots of money
besides. I really believe that the folks you are dealing with are way over
their heads on this one. I suggest taking the vehicle to a "restoration
shop", labelled as such in the Yellow Pages, for a dose of reality.

Another thing your mechanic didn't mention is that people who repair frames
have to make money too, and someone has to pay for all that fancy equipment
they have and absorb the cost of the steel inventory they need, to be able
to take jobs like this. That one foot piece of frame that needs to be
welded in, has been sitting on someone's rack for twenty years, and you are
expected to pay back rent.

Sometimes you just have to let them go.

Saludos,

Earle

"Mark Corbelli" <m_corbelli@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4P9Vh.6029$0S1.1405@trnddc01...
> I went down to the garage and picked the Jeep up today. I had a broken
> driver's side door pull and had them price that, but when I heard about
the
> frame problem I stopped all work. When I went to get in the Jeep, the
latch
> assembly was laying in pieces on the floorboard, so I had to wait for a
> mechanic to put it back together in the pariking lot. The good news was
> first, I watched him put it back together, so if I can get the part ( a
> driver's door latch assembly), I'm sure I can do that myself. Second, we
had
> a nice chat about the car. He didn't do the inspection, but we got under
it
> and he pointed some stuff out. For the most part the frame, (and the Jeep
in
> in general) is virtually rust free. There is a middle section that looks
> like there is a sheet metal pan attached to it, I think this holds up the
> gas tank or shields it, and that section is rusted and the pan is in
pieces
> (I suspect because mechanics have been poking around the rust so much as I
> never noticed it before). Anyway, he said fabricators and race shops make
> frames all the time. He seems to think that it needs to go on a lift, a
> brace needs to be tacked on both sides to hold it while the bad section is
> cut out, then a new fabricated piece is welded in. He says the bad section
> doesn't have places where other parts are bolted on etc..fairly simple. He
> seems to think it'll cost between $800 and $1000 and the owner of the shop
> a) doesn't have the equipment/experience and 2) the shop wouldn't make any
> real money on the repair like it makes on other less complicated routine
> stuff that they can turn over quickly. Anyway, it's sitting in front of my
> house and I think I'll get some more opinions before I try to locate a
> replacement frame.
>
>

Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
 

http://www.4wd.com/productdetails.aspx?pid=57611

A replacement frame for a CJ is $1,799.99. This is made by a company that
has done a few of them, so some economy of scale kicks in. A Wagoneer frame
would have to be a one-off, so maybe double the price, plus shipping, plus
installation. It is true that "fabricators and race shops make frames all
the time" but it is just not a reasonable alternative for a 1988 Wagoneer,
unless you are totally in love with the vehicle and have lots of money
besides. I really believe that the folks you are dealing with are way over
their heads on this one. I suggest taking the vehicle to a "restoration
shop", labelled as such in the Yellow Pages, for a dose of reality.

Another thing your mechanic didn't mention is that people who repair frames
have to make money too, and someone has to pay for all that fancy equipment
they have and absorb the cost of the steel inventory they need, to be able
to take jobs like this. That one foot piece of frame that needs to be
welded in, has been sitting on someone's rack for twenty years, and you are
expected to pay back rent.

Sometimes you just have to let them go.

Saludos,

Earle

"Mark Corbelli" <m_corbelli@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4P9Vh.6029$0S1.1405@trnddc01...
> I went down to the garage and picked the Jeep up today. I had a broken
> driver's side door pull and had them price that, but when I heard about
the
> frame problem I stopped all work. When I went to get in the Jeep, the
latch
> assembly was laying in pieces on the floorboard, so I had to wait for a
> mechanic to put it back together in the pariking lot. The good news was
> first, I watched him put it back together, so if I can get the part ( a
> driver's door latch assembly), I'm sure I can do that myself. Second, we
had
> a nice chat about the car. He didn't do the inspection, but we got under
it
> and he pointed some stuff out. For the most part the frame, (and the Jeep
in
> in general) is virtually rust free. There is a middle section that looks
> like there is a sheet metal pan attached to it, I think this holds up the
> gas tank or shields it, and that section is rusted and the pan is in
pieces
> (I suspect because mechanics have been poking around the rust so much as I
> never noticed it before). Anyway, he said fabricators and race shops make
> frames all the time. He seems to think that it needs to go on a lift, a
> brace needs to be tacked on both sides to hold it while the bad section is
> cut out, then a new fabricated piece is welded in. He says the bad section
> doesn't have places where other parts are bolted on etc..fairly simple. He
> seems to think it'll cost between $800 and $1000 and the owner of the shop
> a) doesn't have the equipment/experience and 2) the shop wouldn't make any
> real money on the repair like it makes on other less complicated routine
> stuff that they can turn over quickly. Anyway, it's sitting in front of my
> house and I think I'll get some more opinions before I try to locate a
> replacement frame.
>
>

Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
 

http://www.4wd.com/productdetails.aspx?pid=57611

A replacement frame for a CJ is $1,799.99. This is made by a company that
has done a few of them, so some economy of scale kicks in. A Wagoneer frame
would have to be a one-off, so maybe double the price, plus shipping, plus
installation. It is true that "fabricators and race shops make frames all
the time" but it is just not a reasonable alternative for a 1988 Wagoneer,
unless you are totally in love with the vehicle and have lots of money
besides. I really believe that the folks you are dealing with are way over
their heads on this one. I suggest taking the vehicle to a "restoration
shop", labelled as such in the Yellow Pages, for a dose of reality.

Another thing your mechanic didn't mention is that people who repair frames
have to make money too, and someone has to pay for all that fancy equipment
they have and absorb the cost of the steel inventory they need, to be able
to take jobs like this. That one foot piece of frame that needs to be
welded in, has been sitting on someone's rack for twenty years, and you are
expected to pay back rent.

Sometimes you just have to let them go.

Saludos,

Earle

"Mark Corbelli" <m_corbelli@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4P9Vh.6029$0S1.1405@trnddc01...
> I went down to the garage and picked the Jeep up today. I had a broken
> driver's side door pull and had them price that, but when I heard about
the
> frame problem I stopped all work. When I went to get in the Jeep, the
latch
> assembly was laying in pieces on the floorboard, so I had to wait for a
> mechanic to put it back together in the pariking lot. The good news was
> first, I watched him put it back together, so if I can get the part ( a
> driver's door latch assembly), I'm sure I can do that myself. Second, we
had
> a nice chat about the car. He didn't do the inspection, but we got under
it
> and he pointed some stuff out. For the most part the frame, (and the Jeep
in
> in general) is virtually rust free. There is a middle section that looks
> like there is a sheet metal pan attached to it, I think this holds up the
> gas tank or shields it, and that section is rusted and the pan is in
pieces
> (I suspect because mechanics have been poking around the rust so much as I
> never noticed it before). Anyway, he said fabricators and race shops make
> frames all the time. He seems to think that it needs to go on a lift, a
> brace needs to be tacked on both sides to hold it while the bad section is
> cut out, then a new fabricated piece is welded in. He says the bad section
> doesn't have places where other parts are bolted on etc..fairly simple. He
> seems to think it'll cost between $800 and $1000 and the owner of the shop
> a) doesn't have the equipment/experience and 2) the shop wouldn't make any
> real money on the repair like it makes on other less complicated routine
> stuff that they can turn over quickly. Anyway, it's sitting in front of my
> house and I think I'll get some more opinions before I try to locate a
> replacement frame.
>
>