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'88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Sad story...
My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How involved? Expensive? Thansk in advance. |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Mark Corbelli wrote:
> Sad story... > My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, > apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In > the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says > that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd > love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't > have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How > involved? Expensive? > > Thansk in advance. > > I am soon to be in that position with my CJ7. There is minimal 'repairing' I can do to it because there is no real steel left, it has crystallized. I know my body will come off in modules and in one piece because it is fiberglass that I installed 7 years ago. The big issue is how much steel is left in your body, particularly the area around the mounts. If they are solid, then your Jeep might be worth a new frame. In my case only one bolt came out of the body tub without cutting or snapping.... Jeeps are nice because they do come apart in pieces pretty easy. The wiring harness comes apart in modules at the fuse panel when you unbolt the center bolt. When the body is lifted off the frame, it is then relatively easy to plumb up the new frame for gas and brake and vent lines before the body goes back on. I guess the trick is to find a new frame that the maker didn't think was gold plated. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Mark Corbelli wrote:
> Sad story... > My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, > apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In > the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says > that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd > love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't > have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How > involved? Expensive? > > Thansk in advance. > > I am soon to be in that position with my CJ7. There is minimal 'repairing' I can do to it because there is no real steel left, it has crystallized. I know my body will come off in modules and in one piece because it is fiberglass that I installed 7 years ago. The big issue is how much steel is left in your body, particularly the area around the mounts. If they are solid, then your Jeep might be worth a new frame. In my case only one bolt came out of the body tub without cutting or snapping.... Jeeps are nice because they do come apart in pieces pretty easy. The wiring harness comes apart in modules at the fuse panel when you unbolt the center bolt. When the body is lifted off the frame, it is then relatively easy to plumb up the new frame for gas and brake and vent lines before the body goes back on. I guess the trick is to find a new frame that the maker didn't think was gold plated. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Mark Corbelli wrote:
> Sad story... > My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, > apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In > the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says > that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd > love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't > have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How > involved? Expensive? > > Thansk in advance. > > I am soon to be in that position with my CJ7. There is minimal 'repairing' I can do to it because there is no real steel left, it has crystallized. I know my body will come off in modules and in one piece because it is fiberglass that I installed 7 years ago. The big issue is how much steel is left in your body, particularly the area around the mounts. If they are solid, then your Jeep might be worth a new frame. In my case only one bolt came out of the body tub without cutting or snapping.... Jeeps are nice because they do come apart in pieces pretty easy. The wiring harness comes apart in modules at the fuse panel when you unbolt the center bolt. When the body is lifted off the frame, it is then relatively easy to plumb up the new frame for gas and brake and vent lines before the body goes back on. I guess the trick is to find a new frame that the maker didn't think was gold plated. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:461fa809$0$31564$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... > Mark Corbelli wrote: > > Sad story... > > My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, > > apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In > > the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says > > that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd > > love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't > > have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How > > involved? Expensive? > > > > Thansk in advance. > > > > > > I am soon to be in that position with my CJ7. There is minimal > 'repairing' I can do to it because there is no real steel left, it has > crystallized. > > I know my body will come off in modules and in one piece because it is > fiberglass that I installed 7 years ago. > > The big issue is how much steel is left in your body, particularly the > area around the mounts. If they are solid, then your Jeep might be > worth a new frame. In my case only one bolt came out of the body tub > without cutting or snapping.... > > Jeeps are nice because they do come apart in pieces pretty easy. The > wiring harness comes apart in modules at the fuse panel when you unbolt > the center bolt. > > When the body is lifted off the frame, it is then relatively easy to > plumb up the new frame for gas and brake and vent lines before the body > goes back on. > > I guess the trick is to find a new frame that the maker didn't think was > gold plated. > For a Wagoneer? Good luck. I've seen some relatively intact vehicles in New Mexico and Colorado used car lots, but they think the whole vehicle is gold plated. There's an older one north of Durango on 550 with a for sale for $500 sign on the windshield... Earle |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:461fa809$0$31564$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... > Mark Corbelli wrote: > > Sad story... > > My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, > > apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In > > the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says > > that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd > > love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't > > have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How > > involved? Expensive? > > > > Thansk in advance. > > > > > > I am soon to be in that position with my CJ7. There is minimal > 'repairing' I can do to it because there is no real steel left, it has > crystallized. > > I know my body will come off in modules and in one piece because it is > fiberglass that I installed 7 years ago. > > The big issue is how much steel is left in your body, particularly the > area around the mounts. If they are solid, then your Jeep might be > worth a new frame. In my case only one bolt came out of the body tub > without cutting or snapping.... > > Jeeps are nice because they do come apart in pieces pretty easy. The > wiring harness comes apart in modules at the fuse panel when you unbolt > the center bolt. > > When the body is lifted off the frame, it is then relatively easy to > plumb up the new frame for gas and brake and vent lines before the body > goes back on. > > I guess the trick is to find a new frame that the maker didn't think was > gold plated. > For a Wagoneer? Good luck. I've seen some relatively intact vehicles in New Mexico and Colorado used car lots, but they think the whole vehicle is gold plated. There's an older one north of Durango on 550 with a for sale for $500 sign on the windshield... Earle |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:461fa809$0$31564$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... > Mark Corbelli wrote: > > Sad story... > > My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, > > apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In > > the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says > > that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd > > love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't > > have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How > > involved? Expensive? > > > > Thansk in advance. > > > > > > I am soon to be in that position with my CJ7. There is minimal > 'repairing' I can do to it because there is no real steel left, it has > crystallized. > > I know my body will come off in modules and in one piece because it is > fiberglass that I installed 7 years ago. > > The big issue is how much steel is left in your body, particularly the > area around the mounts. If they are solid, then your Jeep might be > worth a new frame. In my case only one bolt came out of the body tub > without cutting or snapping.... > > Jeeps are nice because they do come apart in pieces pretty easy. The > wiring harness comes apart in modules at the fuse panel when you unbolt > the center bolt. > > When the body is lifted off the frame, it is then relatively easy to > plumb up the new frame for gas and brake and vent lines before the body > goes back on. > > I guess the trick is to find a new frame that the maker didn't think was > gold plated. > For a Wagoneer? Good luck. I've seen some relatively intact vehicles in New Mexico and Colorado used car lots, but they think the whole vehicle is gold plated. There's an older one north of Durango on 550 with a for sale for $500 sign on the windshield... Earle |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:51:26 GMT, "Mark Corbelli"
<m_corbelli@verizon.net> wrote: >Sad story... >My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, >apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In >the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says >that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd >love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't >have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How >involved? Expensive? > >Thansk in advance. > There is a classic rust weakness area in the frame used under that vehicle. Usually it is in front of rear axle were it rusts to the point it breaks. Jeep used a thinner alloyed frame that was strong but prone to rust. J10', fullsized Cherokees and Wagoneers were prone to this problem. J20's were not because they had a much heavier frame. It do not think it would be too hard to find a frame because the same basic one was used for over 20 years. It can be done but I would suggest that if you replace it sandblast and paint frame you plane to use before installing it. If you want to get extreme, you could look into using a J20 frame and shortening it to proper length. This is extra work and cost but if cleaned and paint it would easilly out last the rest of vehicle. Personally if it is in good shape I think it is worth it because it is a real classic and was ahead of its time. Sturdy vehicle too. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:51:26 GMT, "Mark Corbelli"
<m_corbelli@verizon.net> wrote: >Sad story... >My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, >apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In >the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says >that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd >love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't >have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How >involved? Expensive? > >Thansk in advance. > There is a classic rust weakness area in the frame used under that vehicle. Usually it is in front of rear axle were it rusts to the point it breaks. Jeep used a thinner alloyed frame that was strong but prone to rust. J10', fullsized Cherokees and Wagoneers were prone to this problem. J20's were not because they had a much heavier frame. It do not think it would be too hard to find a frame because the same basic one was used for over 20 years. It can be done but I would suggest that if you replace it sandblast and paint frame you plane to use before installing it. If you want to get extreme, you could look into using a J20 frame and shortening it to proper length. This is extra work and cost but if cleaned and paint it would easilly out last the rest of vehicle. Personally if it is in good shape I think it is worth it because it is a real classic and was ahead of its time. Sturdy vehicle too. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:51:26 GMT, "Mark Corbelli"
<m_corbelli@verizon.net> wrote: >Sad story... >My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, >apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In >the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says >that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd >love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't >have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How >involved? Expensive? > >Thansk in advance. > There is a classic rust weakness area in the frame used under that vehicle. Usually it is in front of rear axle were it rusts to the point it breaks. Jeep used a thinner alloyed frame that was strong but prone to rust. J10', fullsized Cherokees and Wagoneers were prone to this problem. J20's were not because they had a much heavier frame. It do not think it would be too hard to find a frame because the same basic one was used for over 20 years. It can be done but I would suggest that if you replace it sandblast and paint frame you plane to use before installing it. If you want to get extreme, you could look into using a J20 frame and shortening it to proper length. This is extra work and cost but if cleaned and paint it would easilly out last the rest of vehicle. Personally if it is in good shape I think it is worth it because it is a real classic and was ahead of its time. Sturdy vehicle too. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Saw this article recently, local paper
http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...olling_on.html On Apr 14, 12:25 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote: > On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:51:26 GMT, "Mark Corbelli" > > <m_corbe...@verizon.net> wrote: > >Sad story... > >My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, > >apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In > >the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says > >that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd > >love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't > >have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How > >involved? Expensive? > > >Thansk in advance. > > There is a classic rust weakness area in the frame used under that > vehicle. Usually it is in front of rear axle were it rusts to the > point it breaks. Jeep used a thinner alloyed frame that was strong but > prone to rust. J10', fullsized Cherokees and Wagoneers were prone to > this problem. J20's were not because they had a much heavier frame. It > do not think it would be too hard to find a frame because the same > basic one was used for over 20 years. It can be done but I would > suggest that if you replace it sandblast and paint frame you plane to > use before installing it. If you want to get extreme, you could look > into using a J20 frame and shortening it to proper length. This is > extra work and cost but if cleaned and paint it would easilly out last > the rest of vehicle. Personally if it is in good shape I think it is > worth it because it is a real classic and was ahead of its time. > Sturdy vehicle too. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Saw this article recently, local paper
http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...olling_on.html On Apr 14, 12:25 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote: > On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:51:26 GMT, "Mark Corbelli" > > <m_corbe...@verizon.net> wrote: > >Sad story... > >My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, > >apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In > >the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says > >that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd > >love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't > >have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How > >involved? Expensive? > > >Thansk in advance. > > There is a classic rust weakness area in the frame used under that > vehicle. Usually it is in front of rear axle were it rusts to the > point it breaks. Jeep used a thinner alloyed frame that was strong but > prone to rust. J10', fullsized Cherokees and Wagoneers were prone to > this problem. J20's were not because they had a much heavier frame. It > do not think it would be too hard to find a frame because the same > basic one was used for over 20 years. It can be done but I would > suggest that if you replace it sandblast and paint frame you plane to > use before installing it. If you want to get extreme, you could look > into using a J20 frame and shortening it to proper length. This is > extra work and cost but if cleaned and paint it would easilly out last > the rest of vehicle. Personally if it is in good shape I think it is > worth it because it is a real classic and was ahead of its time. > Sturdy vehicle too. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Saw this article recently, local paper
http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...olling_on.html On Apr 14, 12:25 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote: > On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:51:26 GMT, "Mark Corbelli" > > <m_corbe...@verizon.net> wrote: > >Sad story... > >My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, > >apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In > >the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says > >that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd > >love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't > >have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How > >involved? Expensive? > > >Thansk in advance. > > There is a classic rust weakness area in the frame used under that > vehicle. Usually it is in front of rear axle were it rusts to the > point it breaks. Jeep used a thinner alloyed frame that was strong but > prone to rust. J10', fullsized Cherokees and Wagoneers were prone to > this problem. J20's were not because they had a much heavier frame. It > do not think it would be too hard to find a frame because the same > basic one was used for over 20 years. It can be done but I would > suggest that if you replace it sandblast and paint frame you plane to > use before installing it. If you want to get extreme, you could look > into using a J20 frame and shortening it to proper length. This is > extra work and cost but if cleaned and paint it would easilly out last > the rest of vehicle. Personally if it is in good shape I think it is > worth it because it is a real classic and was ahead of its time. > Sturdy vehicle too. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Saw this article recently, local paper
http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...olling_on.html On Apr 14, 12:25 pm, SnoMan <a...@snoman.com> wrote: > On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:51:26 GMT, "Mark Corbelli" > > <m_corbe...@verizon.net> wrote: > >Sad story... > >My beloved '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, my trusted friend for the last 18 years, > >apparently has a terminal case of frame rust that won't pass inspection. In > >the past, my mechanic has fixed this by welding in patches but he now says > >that the frame has to be replaced, it's so bad it cannot be repaired. I'd > >love to keep this vehicle. I know it's hard to answer this because you don't > >have all the details, but has anyone dealth with a frame restoration? How > >involved? Expensive? > > >Thansk in advance. > > There is a classic rust weakness area in the frame used under that > vehicle. Usually it is in front of rear axle were it rusts to the > point it breaks. Jeep used a thinner alloyed frame that was strong but > prone to rust. J10', fullsized Cherokees and Wagoneers were prone to > this problem. J20's were not because they had a much heavier frame. It > do not think it would be too hard to find a frame because the same > basic one was used for over 20 years. It can be done but I would > suggest that if you replace it sandblast and paint frame you plane to > use before installing it. If you want to get extreme, you could look > into using a J20 frame and shortening it to proper length. This is > extra work and cost but if cleaned and paint it would easilly out last > the rest of vehicle. Personally if it is in good shape I think it is > worth it because it is a real classic and was ahead of its time. > Sturdy vehicle too. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
On 15 Apr 2007 12:21:49 -0700, "Howard" <howard@energytactics.com>
wrote: >Saw this article recently, local paper > >http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...olling_on.html There is another guy that has built a big bussiness out of buying, refurbing and reselling them too for top dollar and has no shortage of buyers. As I recall he is somewhere around texas. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
On 15 Apr 2007 12:21:49 -0700, "Howard" <howard@energytactics.com>
wrote: >Saw this article recently, local paper > >http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...olling_on.html There is another guy that has built a big bussiness out of buying, refurbing and reselling them too for top dollar and has no shortage of buyers. As I recall he is somewhere around texas. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
On 15 Apr 2007 12:21:49 -0700, "Howard" <howard@energytactics.com>
wrote: >Saw this article recently, local paper > >http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...olling_on.html There is another guy that has built a big bussiness out of buying, refurbing and reselling them too for top dollar and has no shortage of buyers. As I recall he is somewhere around texas. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
On 15 Apr 2007 12:21:49 -0700, "Howard" <howard@energytactics.com>
wrote: >Saw this article recently, local paper > >http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...olling_on.html There is another guy that has built a big bussiness out of buying, refurbing and reselling them too for top dollar and has no shortage of buyers. As I recall he is somewhere around texas. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
I have a bit more information...my mechanic says the main reason it won't pass now is that the frame is rusted where the support for the gas tank is and that has to be fixed to so the gas tank is supported properly. He has enough good metal that he can tack weld pieces of good metal in places and pass it for another year, but after that he doubts he can fix it any further. He says if I can find a good frame somewhere, it's about a 30 hour job over three days @ $70 per hour to completely remove every piece off the old frame and rebuild it on the new frame. I have decided to park the car for now until I can research and find out if I can reasonably expect to find a decent frame somewhere. The car has about 90,000 miles on the engine, 180,000 on the car. I've had it since it was 2 years old. Otherwise it runs well, and most everything still works. |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
I have a bit more information...my mechanic says the main reason it won't pass now is that the frame is rusted where the support for the gas tank is and that has to be fixed to so the gas tank is supported properly. He has enough good metal that he can tack weld pieces of good metal in places and pass it for another year, but after that he doubts he can fix it any further. He says if I can find a good frame somewhere, it's about a 30 hour job over three days @ $70 per hour to completely remove every piece off the old frame and rebuild it on the new frame. I have decided to park the car for now until I can research and find out if I can reasonably expect to find a decent frame somewhere. The car has about 90,000 miles on the engine, 180,000 on the car. I've had it since it was 2 years old. Otherwise it runs well, and most everything still works. |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
I have a bit more information...my mechanic says the main reason it won't pass now is that the frame is rusted where the support for the gas tank is and that has to be fixed to so the gas tank is supported properly. He has enough good metal that he can tack weld pieces of good metal in places and pass it for another year, but after that he doubts he can fix it any further. He says if I can find a good frame somewhere, it's about a 30 hour job over three days @ $70 per hour to completely remove every piece off the old frame and rebuild it on the new frame. I have decided to park the car for now until I can research and find out if I can reasonably expect to find a decent frame somewhere. The car has about 90,000 miles on the engine, 180,000 on the car. I've had it since it was 2 years old. Otherwise it runs well, and most everything still works. |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
I have a bit more information...my mechanic says the main reason it won't pass now is that the frame is rusted where the support for the gas tank is and that has to be fixed to so the gas tank is supported properly. He has enough good metal that he can tack weld pieces of good metal in places and pass it for another year, but after that he doubts he can fix it any further. He says if I can find a good frame somewhere, it's about a 30 hour job over three days @ $70 per hour to completely remove every piece off the old frame and rebuild it on the new frame. I have decided to park the car for now until I can research and find out if I can reasonably expect to find a decent frame somewhere. The car has about 90,000 miles on the engine, 180,000 on the car. I've had it since it was 2 years old. Otherwise it runs well, and most everything still works. |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Mark,
Well, suffice it to say you're looking at a fair bill to swap out that frame -- I think the hour figure is high since most likely you will be purchasing a wrecked/rolling chassis -- so you don't swap every assembly in the process, you roll the old one out and roll the new one under. So you're looking at labor, a rolling chassis, one or two tows, and every nut, bolt, and replaceable assembly that gets touched in the proce$$....a number that eclipses the value of a good example from a rust-free area. For the record (as someone who worked/killed time in one), I think you really need to take it by a local welding shop before you park it for good -- if I'm correct in interpreting your mechanic's issues, there is no structural issue with the frame rails (Otherwise you'd have suspension problems or bumpers that fall off), and the crossmembers are what have rotted off. If that's correct, there's no reason why a local welding shop can't put together something that will outlast the rest of the vehicle....and for a fraction of the price. And while your'e in there, it's a great opportunity to do some rust prevention in the vicinity. I'll stop here... Jon |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Mark,
Well, suffice it to say you're looking at a fair bill to swap out that frame -- I think the hour figure is high since most likely you will be purchasing a wrecked/rolling chassis -- so you don't swap every assembly in the process, you roll the old one out and roll the new one under. So you're looking at labor, a rolling chassis, one or two tows, and every nut, bolt, and replaceable assembly that gets touched in the proce$$....a number that eclipses the value of a good example from a rust-free area. For the record (as someone who worked/killed time in one), I think you really need to take it by a local welding shop before you park it for good -- if I'm correct in interpreting your mechanic's issues, there is no structural issue with the frame rails (Otherwise you'd have suspension problems or bumpers that fall off), and the crossmembers are what have rotted off. If that's correct, there's no reason why a local welding shop can't put together something that will outlast the rest of the vehicle....and for a fraction of the price. And while your'e in there, it's a great opportunity to do some rust prevention in the vicinity. I'll stop here... Jon |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Mark,
Well, suffice it to say you're looking at a fair bill to swap out that frame -- I think the hour figure is high since most likely you will be purchasing a wrecked/rolling chassis -- so you don't swap every assembly in the process, you roll the old one out and roll the new one under. So you're looking at labor, a rolling chassis, one or two tows, and every nut, bolt, and replaceable assembly that gets touched in the proce$$....a number that eclipses the value of a good example from a rust-free area. For the record (as someone who worked/killed time in one), I think you really need to take it by a local welding shop before you park it for good -- if I'm correct in interpreting your mechanic's issues, there is no structural issue with the frame rails (Otherwise you'd have suspension problems or bumpers that fall off), and the crossmembers are what have rotted off. If that's correct, there's no reason why a local welding shop can't put together something that will outlast the rest of the vehicle....and for a fraction of the price. And while your'e in there, it's a great opportunity to do some rust prevention in the vicinity. I'll stop here... Jon |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Mark,
Well, suffice it to say you're looking at a fair bill to swap out that frame -- I think the hour figure is high since most likely you will be purchasing a wrecked/rolling chassis -- so you don't swap every assembly in the process, you roll the old one out and roll the new one under. So you're looking at labor, a rolling chassis, one or two tows, and every nut, bolt, and replaceable assembly that gets touched in the proce$$....a number that eclipses the value of a good example from a rust-free area. For the record (as someone who worked/killed time in one), I think you really need to take it by a local welding shop before you park it for good -- if I'm correct in interpreting your mechanic's issues, there is no structural issue with the frame rails (Otherwise you'd have suspension problems or bumpers that fall off), and the crossmembers are what have rotted off. If that's correct, there's no reason why a local welding shop can't put together something that will outlast the rest of the vehicle....and for a fraction of the price. And while your'e in there, it's a great opportunity to do some rust prevention in the vicinity. I'll stop here... Jon |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Mark Corbelli wrote:
> I have a bit more information...my mechanic says the main reason it won't > pass now is that the frame is rusted where the support for the gas tank is > and that has to be fixed to so the gas tank is supported properly. He has > enough good metal that he can tack weld pieces of good metal in places and > pass it for another year, but after that he doubts he can fix it any > further. He says if I can find a good frame somewhere, it's about a 30 hour > job over three days @ $70 per hour to completely remove every piece off the > old frame and rebuild it on the new frame. I have decided to park the car > for now until I can research and find out if I can reasonably expect to find > a decent frame somewhere. The car has about 90,000 miles on the engine, > 180,000 on the car. I've had it since it was 2 years old. Otherwise it runs > well, and most everything still works. > > I will also agree about going to a professional welding shop or even a trade school for frame repairs. The pros are usually better and cheaper than a mechanic for welding repairs. A few well placed patches have kept my frame going for an amazingly long time. Plus I don't really bash it off road anymore due to injuries from a car accident. Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no body in the way. I also stripped the old frame down and put a coat of that 'rust converter' stuff on it with a rubberized overcoat to slow down future rust. I will have to say it worked seeing as I am still driving her 7-8 years later. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Mark Corbelli wrote:
> I have a bit more information...my mechanic says the main reason it won't > pass now is that the frame is rusted where the support for the gas tank is > and that has to be fixed to so the gas tank is supported properly. He has > enough good metal that he can tack weld pieces of good metal in places and > pass it for another year, but after that he doubts he can fix it any > further. He says if I can find a good frame somewhere, it's about a 30 hour > job over three days @ $70 per hour to completely remove every piece off the > old frame and rebuild it on the new frame. I have decided to park the car > for now until I can research and find out if I can reasonably expect to find > a decent frame somewhere. The car has about 90,000 miles on the engine, > 180,000 on the car. I've had it since it was 2 years old. Otherwise it runs > well, and most everything still works. > > I will also agree about going to a professional welding shop or even a trade school for frame repairs. The pros are usually better and cheaper than a mechanic for welding repairs. A few well placed patches have kept my frame going for an amazingly long time. Plus I don't really bash it off road anymore due to injuries from a car accident. Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no body in the way. I also stripped the old frame down and put a coat of that 'rust converter' stuff on it with a rubberized overcoat to slow down future rust. I will have to say it worked seeing as I am still driving her 7-8 years later. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Mark Corbelli wrote:
> I have a bit more information...my mechanic says the main reason it won't > pass now is that the frame is rusted where the support for the gas tank is > and that has to be fixed to so the gas tank is supported properly. He has > enough good metal that he can tack weld pieces of good metal in places and > pass it for another year, but after that he doubts he can fix it any > further. He says if I can find a good frame somewhere, it's about a 30 hour > job over three days @ $70 per hour to completely remove every piece off the > old frame and rebuild it on the new frame. I have decided to park the car > for now until I can research and find out if I can reasonably expect to find > a decent frame somewhere. The car has about 90,000 miles on the engine, > 180,000 on the car. I've had it since it was 2 years old. Otherwise it runs > well, and most everything still works. > > I will also agree about going to a professional welding shop or even a trade school for frame repairs. The pros are usually better and cheaper than a mechanic for welding repairs. A few well placed patches have kept my frame going for an amazingly long time. Plus I don't really bash it off road anymore due to injuries from a car accident. Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no body in the way. I also stripped the old frame down and put a coat of that 'rust converter' stuff on it with a rubberized overcoat to slow down future rust. I will have to say it worked seeing as I am still driving her 7-8 years later. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
Mark Corbelli wrote:
> I have a bit more information...my mechanic says the main reason it won't > pass now is that the frame is rusted where the support for the gas tank is > and that has to be fixed to so the gas tank is supported properly. He has > enough good metal that he can tack weld pieces of good metal in places and > pass it for another year, but after that he doubts he can fix it any > further. He says if I can find a good frame somewhere, it's about a 30 hour > job over three days @ $70 per hour to completely remove every piece off the > old frame and rebuild it on the new frame. I have decided to park the car > for now until I can research and find out if I can reasonably expect to find > a decent frame somewhere. The car has about 90,000 miles on the engine, > 180,000 on the car. I've had it since it was 2 years old. Otherwise it runs > well, and most everything still works. > > I will also agree about going to a professional welding shop or even a trade school for frame repairs. The pros are usually better and cheaper than a mechanic for welding repairs. A few well placed patches have kept my frame going for an amazingly long time. Plus I don't really bash it off road anymore due to injuries from a car accident. Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no body in the way. I also stripped the old frame down and put a coat of that 'rust converter' stuff on it with a rubberized overcoat to slow down future rust. I will have to say it worked seeing as I am still driving her 7-8 years later. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com... .... > Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic > do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last > century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my > time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not > that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no > body in the way. > I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled, welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic this guy has is over his head, really. Earle |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com... .... > Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic > do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last > century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my > time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not > that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no > body in the way. > I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled, welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic this guy has is over his head, really. Earle |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com... .... > Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic > do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last > century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my > time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not > that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no > body in the way. > I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled, welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic this guy has is over his head, really. Earle |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com... .... > Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic > do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last > century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my > time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not > that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no > body in the way. > I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled, welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic this guy has is over his head, really. Earle |
Re: Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:01:30 -0600, "Earle Horton"
<apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote: >"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message >news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... >... >> Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic >> do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last >> century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my >> time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not >> that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no >> body in the way. >> >I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled, >welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you >need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic >this guy has is over his head, really. > >Earle > The problem is the basic frame design. Jeep used a thin gauge high strength alloy frame and rust can take its toll on it and if you try to repair it you will speen a lot of time trying to piece it togehter and fine a strong place to weld too then if you do not do this right, the new material will create stress in a new area on metal that may be weaked by rust too. You could have some custom hat sections made up to restore weak areas but that would not be cheap either. Another thought is if you can find another frame you could use part of it to splits repair the existing frame and not have to replace complete frame. If it was mine and the rest of the frame was good I would try this method first I think. If I replaced the complete frame I would use a shortend P/U frame as I stated earlier because it is a lot stronger and would never rust out during the rest of its service life. If you just have a local welder weld in some odd pieces this will not likely create a good fix. Whithout seeing the actual damage it is hard to say for sure the best possible repair solution. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:01:30 -0600, "Earle Horton"
<apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote: >"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message >news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... >... >> Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic >> do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last >> century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my >> time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not >> that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no >> body in the way. >> >I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled, >welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you >need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic >this guy has is over his head, really. > >Earle > The problem is the basic frame design. Jeep used a thin gauge high strength alloy frame and rust can take its toll on it and if you try to repair it you will speen a lot of time trying to piece it togehter and fine a strong place to weld too then if you do not do this right, the new material will create stress in a new area on metal that may be weaked by rust too. You could have some custom hat sections made up to restore weak areas but that would not be cheap either. Another thought is if you can find another frame you could use part of it to splits repair the existing frame and not have to replace complete frame. If it was mine and the rest of the frame was good I would try this method first I think. If I replaced the complete frame I would use a shortend P/U frame as I stated earlier because it is a lot stronger and would never rust out during the rest of its service life. If you just have a local welder weld in some odd pieces this will not likely create a good fix. Whithout seeing the actual damage it is hard to say for sure the best possible repair solution. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:01:30 -0600, "Earle Horton"
<apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote: >"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message >news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... >... >> Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic >> do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last >> century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my >> time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not >> that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no >> body in the way. >> >I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled, >welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you >need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic >this guy has is over his head, really. > >Earle > The problem is the basic frame design. Jeep used a thin gauge high strength alloy frame and rust can take its toll on it and if you try to repair it you will speen a lot of time trying to piece it togehter and fine a strong place to weld too then if you do not do this right, the new material will create stress in a new area on metal that may be weaked by rust too. You could have some custom hat sections made up to restore weak areas but that would not be cheap either. Another thought is if you can find another frame you could use part of it to splits repair the existing frame and not have to replace complete frame. If it was mine and the rest of the frame was good I would try this method first I think. If I replaced the complete frame I would use a shortend P/U frame as I stated earlier because it is a lot stronger and would never rust out during the rest of its service life. If you just have a local welder weld in some odd pieces this will not likely create a good fix. Whithout seeing the actual damage it is hard to say for sure the best possible repair solution. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:01:30 -0600, "Earle Horton"
<apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote: >"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message >news:462506c0$0$6591$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com... >... >> Economically I don't see how it would pay to have a mechanic >> do all the labor on the swap. When I rebuilt my frame last >> century, I had a rolling chassis sitting there so I could take my >> time and put all the new lines and things on it. It is really not >> that hard to do when you have the old parts as a guide and no >> body in the way. >> >I agree. The donor frame is going to have bolts rusted, holes not drilled, >welded brackets missing and fittings in a different location from what you >need. That kind of stuff really eats up time. It sounds as if the mechanic >this guy has is over his head, really. > >Earle > The problem is the basic frame design. Jeep used a thin gauge high strength alloy frame and rust can take its toll on it and if you try to repair it you will speen a lot of time trying to piece it togehter and fine a strong place to weld too then if you do not do this right, the new material will create stress in a new area on metal that may be weaked by rust too. You could have some custom hat sections made up to restore weak areas but that would not be cheap either. Another thought is if you can find another frame you could use part of it to splits repair the existing frame and not have to replace complete frame. If it was mine and the rest of the frame was good I would try this method first I think. If I replaced the complete frame I would use a shortend P/U frame as I stated earlier because it is a lot stronger and would never rust out during the rest of its service life. If you just have a local welder weld in some odd pieces this will not likely create a good fix. Whithout seeing the actual damage it is hard to say for sure the best possible repair solution. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
I went down to the garage and picked the Jeep up today. I had a broken
driver's side door pull and had them price that, but when I heard about the frame problem I stopped all work. When I went to get in the Jeep, the latch assembly was laying in pieces on the floorboard, so I had to wait for a mechanic to put it back together in the pariking lot. The good news was first, I watched him put it back together, so if I can get the part ( a driver's door latch assembly), I'm sure I can do that myself. Second, we had a nice chat about the car. He didn't do the inspection, but we got under it and he pointed some stuff out. For the most part the frame, (and the Jeep in in general) is virtually rust free. There is a middle section that looks like there is a sheet metal pan attached to it, I think this holds up the gas tank or shields it, and that section is rusted and the pan is in pieces (I suspect because mechanics have been poking around the rust so much as I never noticed it before). Anyway, he said fabricators and race shops make frames all the time. He seems to think that it needs to go on a lift, a brace needs to be tacked on both sides to hold it while the bad section is cut out, then a new fabricated piece is welded in. He says the bad section doesn't have places where other parts are bolted on etc..fairly simple. He seems to think it'll cost between $800 and $1000 and the owner of the shop a) doesn't have the equipment/experience and 2) the shop wouldn't make any real money on the repair like it makes on other less complicated routine stuff that they can turn over quickly. Anyway, it's sitting in front of my house and I think I'll get some more opinions before I try to locate a replacement frame. |
Re: '88 Grand Wagon frame rusted
I went down to the garage and picked the Jeep up today. I had a broken
driver's side door pull and had them price that, but when I heard about the frame problem I stopped all work. When I went to get in the Jeep, the latch assembly was laying in pieces on the floorboard, so I had to wait for a mechanic to put it back together in the pariking lot. The good news was first, I watched him put it back together, so if I can get the part ( a driver's door latch assembly), I'm sure I can do that myself. Second, we had a nice chat about the car. He didn't do the inspection, but we got under it and he pointed some stuff out. For the most part the frame, (and the Jeep in in general) is virtually rust free. There is a middle section that looks like there is a sheet metal pan attached to it, I think this holds up the gas tank or shields it, and that section is rusted and the pan is in pieces (I suspect because mechanics have been poking around the rust so much as I never noticed it before). Anyway, he said fabricators and race shops make frames all the time. He seems to think that it needs to go on a lift, a brace needs to be tacked on both sides to hold it while the bad section is cut out, then a new fabricated piece is welded in. He says the bad section doesn't have places where other parts are bolted on etc..fairly simple. He seems to think it'll cost between $800 and $1000 and the owner of the shop a) doesn't have the equipment/experience and 2) the shop wouldn't make any real money on the repair like it makes on other less complicated routine stuff that they can turn over quickly. Anyway, it's sitting in front of my house and I think I'll get some more opinions before I try to locate a replacement frame. |
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