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Re: 87 YJ magically turned into a '92 XJ

The Merg wrote:
> Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?

NO... the shackle lift only raises ONE SIDE of the leaf thus as a rule
it's not going to ever give you a linear increase in height. "they" say
that 1" of extra shackle length gets you about 1/2" of actual lift
(because you are raising half the spring pack) . But once you've driven
on them and flexed a bit it's probably a lot closer to 7/16's or 3/8's
because the longer shackle is a more efficient lever which means your
spring will be dearched (less lift) a little more than before in
addition to being pushed away from the body by the longer shackles which
causes the lift of course.

Naturally this means that lift shackles will lower your ride quality as
the spring has to act against a more efficient lever to flex but it's
not a big hit by any means.

If you want 31's on a YJ then the 1 1/4" inch lift shackles you bought
will do it, you're all set! Don't worry about messing with ANY angles on
your Jeep EXCEPT toe in (which is very DIY too if you're inclined) at
your alignment shop afterwards... They can also tell you there's nothing
particularly wrong with your castor angle as this lift will almost not
effect it at all.

One last thing, you will need to increase your wheel backspacing or
adjust your steering stops; or 31 10.5 R15's will rub your leafs at full
lock. It's no big deal, it wont hurt anything if you don't beat on it,
but you can fix it with just about any aftermarket wheel with a 3.5" BS
(they will stick out of the fenders 1 inch further than stock)

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein

Re: 87 YJ magically turned into a '92 XJ

I have two friends from this group, Norm and Steve with YJ's that have
them lifted as high as mine. They didn't need SYE driveshafts because
they kept things like the shackles stock length. This keeps the
geometry good and only needs either a 1" engine mount lift or a t-case
skid drop to stay perfect.

Mine is 'borderline' for vibes because I used the wrong shackles. All I
could get at the time were 'lift' shackles (YJ shackles) which were 1"
too long for my CJ7's geometry.

Mike

Carl wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Bear in mind that 'most' of that $1000 is for the SYE, which is required for
> Spring-under and spring-over on a YJ.
>
> Carl
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:459C020F.28B4D31E@sympatico.ca...
> >I did a 3" lift on my CJ7 for way under a thousand.....
> >
> > I needed new rear springs after snapping mine so I went to a 'real'
> > truck spring shop. These gents do semi's and dump trucks. They also
> > don't sell gold plated springs like the 4x4 specialty shops think they
> > are selling. ;-)
> >
> > They ordered in OEM springs for the back and one pre arched 'keeper'
> > spring for each pack. They took the back packs apart and arched the new
> > OEM springs to a 2.5" lift, then added the pre tempered keeper in place
> > of the first leaf down.
> >
> > My fronts looked fine, so they just opened them up and arched them to
> > 2.5" lift while again replacing one leaf with the keeper leaf.
> >
> > All told I think I spent about $500.00 at the shop. If I remember it
> > was 180 for the fronts and 250 275 or so for the back, something like
> > that anyway. I then had to buy and put on new extended shocks.
> >
> > I put 'lift' shackles on also to give me 1/2" more making a total of
> > 3". My 'glass body also sits higher off the frame than a stock one so
> > it has the equivalent of a 1" or so body lift.
> >
> > I have off roaded 'hard' and have a warn hs9000i winch up front and the
> > re-arch has held for 8 years and counting.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > The Merg wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks, Carl.
> >> Believe me, I'm not going to approach this with a 'shoot first'
> >> mentality - especially since I won't be able to do it for a while. Now
> >> that I have two Jeeps to build up I have to pick and choose my upgrades
> >> very carefully. I'm just trying to get as much info as I can and
> >> figure out about how much time and money this will take me.
> >> Anyway, it's just wishing for now until the money fairy visits my bank
> >> account.
> >>
> >> On Jan 3, 12:44 am, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >> > The $1000 is not including the new spring packs from Rubicon. Please
> >> > keep in
> >> > mind that a spring-over is more labor intensive and requires a lot more
> >> > planning than a spring-under lift, but, IMO, it is WELL WORTH the
> >> > effort.
> >> >
> >> > Carl
> >> >
> >> > "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> > messagenews:1167777412.531406.73910@i12g2000cwa.go oglegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > > Carl,
> >> > > I'm looking over your numbers again, and the $1000 price tag includes
> >> > > the new springs you bought? So I'm thinking I could hypothetically
> >> > > get
> >> > > away with $600-700 or so if I go get some used spring packs from a
> >> > > junkyard. Before beer of course. Maybe more if I go with more
> >> > > expensive shocks.
> >> >
> >> > > Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> >> > > longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
> >> >
> >> > > Carl wrote:
> >> > >> That's a good article, I read it before doing mine.
> >> >
> >> > >> Carl
> >> >
> >> > >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > >>news:1167713743.729158.220470@h40g2000cwb.google groups.com...
> >> > >> > dammit Carl, you never should have mentioned this. Now I want to
> >> > >> > do it
> >> > >> > right away! Sadly, I'll have to wait until I can afford it. I'm
> >> > >> > really glad I picked up the XJ, though, because now I can afford
> >> > >> > to
> >> > >> > take the YJ off the road for the time needed for the SOA
> >> > >> > conversion
> >> > >> > (after the XJ becomes road worthy, of course). $1000 sounds
> >> > >> > pretty
> >> > >> > good, even when I factor in the beer (another $500 or so, I'm
> >> > >> > thinking).
> >> > >> > I found a good article over on Jeep Tech on SOA and axle upgrades:
> >> > >> >http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/fordeb/
> >> >
> >> > >> > The other idea that really really intrigues me is the 3/4
> >> > >> > elliptical
> >> > >> > spring set up.
> >> >
> >> > >> > On Jan 1, 7:26 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >> Yes, $400 if you want brand new reverse eye spring-over springs
> >> > >> >> from
> >> > >> >> Rubicon.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> Lets see here...$40 for spring perches, $130 for shocks, $60 for
> >> > >> >> a
> >> > >> >> drop
> >> > >> >> pitman, $40ish for U-bolts, $40 for used springs I was able to
> >> > >> >> buy,
> >> > >> >> and
> >> > >> >> $400
> >> > >> >> for the SYE. Around $1000 total for everything, not counting
> >> > >> >> Beer.
> >> > >> >> Keep
> >> > >> >> in
> >> > >> >> mind that the SYE is needed for SOA and SUA.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> You're look at AT LEAST $1800 for a spring-under lift with
> >> > >> >> everything,
> >> > >> >> and
> >> > >> >> you still dont have the advantages of spring-over such as awesome
> >> > >> >> flex,
> >> > >> >> ride, and clearance.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> The drop pitman arm moves the drag link down 4" if you can find a
> >> > >> >> 6"
> >> > >> >> drop
> >> > >> >> pitman arm, that will work. I've also heard you can use a stock
> >> > >> >> ZJ
> >> > >> >> pitman
> >> > >> >> arm from the junkyard (it will provide 4" of drop) to save a
> >> > >> >> little
> >> > >> >> $$.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> I had intended to eventually do hi-steer, which would would need
> >> > >> >> to do
> >> > >> >> if
> >> > >> >> you went to a D44 up front. Don't grind the drag link, wait to
> >> > >> >> see
> >> > >> >> what
> >> > >> >> it
> >> > >> >> needs after it's done.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> The thing I hate about SUA is that 4" is it. There are some
> >> > >> >> companies
> >> > >> >> that
> >> > >> >> offer 6" but the springs are so effing long it's ridiculous. You
> >> > >> >> get
> >> > >> >> 5-6"
> >> > >> >> from JUST the spring over. I forgot to mention that I also had 1"
> >> > >> >> lift
> >> > >> >> shackles, and my custom wrangler springs gave me around another
> >> > >> >> 1-1.5".
> >> > >> >> So I
> >> > >> >> had at least 7" of lift with incredible flex, ride, and clearance
> >> > >> >> for
> >> > >> >> dirt
> >> > >> >> cheap. If you haven't seen the pictures, go back a few threads
> >> > >> >> and
> >> > >> >> find
> >> > >> >> the
> >> > >> >> link. It is *really* tall. The pics are on page two or three.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> Carl
> >> >
> >> > >> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> > >> >> messagenews:1167695746.062611.223030@k21g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > >> >> > I'm assuming you mean $400 for four spring packs from Rubicon?
> >> > >> >> > Or
> >> > >> >> > did
> >> > >> >> > you just have them laying around?
> >> > >> >> > What would you say was your final cost with spring packs, SYE,
> >> > >> >> > driveshaft, etc.?
> >> > >> >> > Do you think the draglink could be moved up or down to
> >> > >> >> > eliminate the
> >> > >> >> > rubbing? Or should I just grind it down a little?
> >> >
> >> > >> >> > On Jan 1, 4:14 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >> >> Ha. I ran the spring over for about 6 months untill I sold the
> >> > >> >> >> YJ.
> >> > >> >> >> If
> >> > >> >> >> it's
> >> > >> >> >> done right, you'll love it. Don't buy a bolt-on kit. Check
> >> > >> >> >> your
> >> > >> >> >> angles
> >> > >> >> >> and
> >> > >> >> >> measurements and weld. The rear pinion should point exactly to
> >> > >> >> >> the
> >> > >> >> >> t-case
> >> > >> >> >> output, minus 1 to 2 degrees. I upped my front pinion angle
> >> > >> >> >> only 2
> >> > >> >> >> degrees
> >> > >> >> >> to try to keep as close to stock castor as possible.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> >> I had the 2.5L and axlewrap was a nominal issue. My stock
> >> > >> >> >> springs
> >> > >> >> >> did
> >> > >> >> >> eventually need replacement. You can buy spring-over springs
> >> > >> >> >> (reverse
> >> > >> >> >> eye)
> >> > >> >> >> from Rubicon for around $100 each, and in either 1.5" lift or
> >> > >> >> >> stock
> >> > >> >> >> height.
> >> > >> >> >> This allows you to buy two at a time, and still be cheaper
> >> > >> >> >> than a
> >> > >> >> >> spring-under lift.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> >> I took 8 stock wrangler packs, and put the better mains in as
> >> > >> >> >> mains,
> >> > >> >> >> the
> >> > >> >> >> worse mains as added mains with the spring eyes cut off, an
> >> > >> >> >> extra
> >> > >> >> >> mid-leaf
> >> > >> >> >> in the rear, and an extra short leaf in each pack. This gave
> >> > >> >> >> me 7
> >> > >> >> >> leaf
> >> > >> >> >> rears
> >> > >> >> >> and 6 leaf fronts. The ride was exceptional, the cost was $40,
> >> > >> >> >> and
> >> > >> >> >> axlewrap
> >> > >> >> >> was eliminated.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> >> The other problem you'll run into is the drag link grazing the
> >> > >> >> >> passenger
> >> > >> >> >> side front leaf pack. I just didn't do anything about it. The
> >> > >> >> >> spring
> >> > >> >> >> shaved
> >> > >> >> >> a tiny amount of material from my drag link, thus provididing
> >> > >> >> >> the
> >> > >> >> >> needed
> >> > >> >> >> clearance.
> >> >
> >> > >> >> >> HTH
> >> >
> >> > >> >> >> Carl

Re: 87 YJ magically turned into a '92 XJ

Thanks Simon, I actually realized my mistake later when reading some
other literature on shackle lifts. I think I'm going to stick with my
30X9.5R15's for now because they still have plenty of tread and, well,
they've been very good to me.

How do I go about checking/adjusting the toe-in?

Simon Juncal wrote:
> The Merg wrote:
> > Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> > longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
>
> NO... the shackle lift only raises ONE SIDE of the leaf thus as a rule
> it's not going to ever give you a linear increase in height. "they" say
> that 1" of extra shackle length gets you about 1/2" of actual lift
> (because you are raising half the spring pack) . But once you've driven
> on them and flexed a bit it's probably a lot closer to 7/16's or 3/8's
> because the longer shackle is a more efficient lever which means your
> spring will be dearched (less lift) a little more than before in
> addition to being pushed away from the body by the longer shackles which
> causes the lift of course.
>
> Naturally this means that lift shackles will lower your ride quality as
> the spring has to act against a more efficient lever to flex but it's
> not a big hit by any means.
>
> If you want 31's on a YJ then the 1 1/4" inch lift shackles you bought
> will do it, you're all set! Don't worry about messing with ANY angles on
> your Jeep EXCEPT toe in (which is very DIY too if you're inclined) at
> your alignment shop afterwards... They can also tell you there's nothing
> particularly wrong with your castor angle as this lift will almost not
> effect it at all.
>
> One last thing, you will need to increase your wheel backspacing or
> adjust your steering stops; or 31 10.5 R15's will rub your leafs at full
> lock. It's no big deal, it wont hurt anything if you don't beat on it,
> but you can fix it with just about any aftermarket wheel with a 3.5" BS
> (they will stick out of the fenders 1 inch further than stock)
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein

Re: 87 YJ magically turned into a '92 XJ

To check the toe in I use a tape measure. My tires wear perfectly so I
must have it right.

I note the location of the seam in the tire tread mold and use that as a
marker point. I measure just under the frame in the front from side to
side at the seam, then do the same at the back of the tire. The front
measurement should be about 3/16 less than the back measurement on your
size tires I think. I use 1/4" on my 33's.

This means you want a slight toe in. If it toes out it will wander or
get squirrily as someone else posted.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

The Merg wrote:
>
> Thanks Simon, I actually realized my mistake later when reading some
> other literature on shackle lifts. I think I'm going to stick with my
> 30X9.5R15's for now because they still have plenty of tread and, well,
> they've been very good to me.
>
> How do I go about checking/adjusting the toe-in?
>
> Simon Juncal wrote:
> > The Merg wrote:
> > > Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> > > longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
> >
> > NO... the shackle lift only raises ONE SIDE of the leaf thus as a rule
> > it's not going to ever give you a linear increase in height. "they" say
> > that 1" of extra shackle length gets you about 1/2" of actual lift
> > (because you are raising half the spring pack) . But once you've driven
> > on them and flexed a bit it's probably a lot closer to 7/16's or 3/8's
> > because the longer shackle is a more efficient lever which means your
> > spring will be dearched (less lift) a little more than before in
> > addition to being pushed away from the body by the longer shackles which
> > causes the lift of course.
> >
> > Naturally this means that lift shackles will lower your ride quality as
> > the spring has to act against a more efficient lever to flex but it's
> > not a big hit by any means.
> >
> > If you want 31's on a YJ then the 1 1/4" inch lift shackles you bought
> > will do it, you're all set! Don't worry about messing with ANY angles on
> > your Jeep EXCEPT toe in (which is very DIY too if you're inclined) at
> > your alignment shop afterwards... They can also tell you there's nothing
> > particularly wrong with your castor angle as this lift will almost not
> > effect it at all.
> >
> > One last thing, you will need to increase your wheel backspacing or
> > adjust your steering stops; or 31 10.5 R15's will rub your leafs at full
> > lock. It's no big deal, it wont hurt anything if you don't beat on it,
> > but you can fix it with just about any aftermarket wheel with a 3.5" BS
> > (they will stick out of the fenders 1 inch further than stock)
> >
> > --
> > Simon
> > "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein