2001 TJ Front Differential
11-08-2003, 10:57 AM
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2001 TJ Front Differential
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:17:56 +0000, JimG wrote:
> Hey Andy,
> Thinking is good, but not this time :-) ARB is not the answer to
> everything, especially for the front. Just take it out of
> four-wheel-drive! Front locker... gone (any brand), transparent!
>
As a newbie to 4-wheeling with a new Jeep TJ, I've been following this
thread with interest, but I'm confused about the opinion that an ARB is
not the best answer for the front axle.
It seems to me that the difference on the front axle between a manual and
an automatic locker would be the ability for the driver, when on the trail
in 4wd, to *choose* when the front wheels would be locked and when they
wouldn't.
Aren't there times on the trail when having the front wheels locked in 4wd
is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability
is more advantageous than increased traction...)
If so, the manual (ARB) locker gives you that option, whereas the
automatic locker does not. Isn't this an advantage to the ARB (assuming
the owner is not bothered by the cost difference between the automatic and
the manual locker types)?
If I'm confused, please set me straight - this stuff is all new to me.
Thanks for any comments.
--
[ ]
__OIIIIO__
|||=oo=|||
||| |||
> Hey Andy,
> Thinking is good, but not this time :-) ARB is not the answer to
> everything, especially for the front. Just take it out of
> four-wheel-drive! Front locker... gone (any brand), transparent!
>
As a newbie to 4-wheeling with a new Jeep TJ, I've been following this
thread with interest, but I'm confused about the opinion that an ARB is
not the best answer for the front axle.
It seems to me that the difference on the front axle between a manual and
an automatic locker would be the ability for the driver, when on the trail
in 4wd, to *choose* when the front wheels would be locked and when they
wouldn't.
Aren't there times on the trail when having the front wheels locked in 4wd
is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability
is more advantageous than increased traction...)
If so, the manual (ARB) locker gives you that option, whereas the
automatic locker does not. Isn't this an advantage to the ARB (assuming
the owner is not bothered by the cost difference between the automatic and
the manual locker types)?
If I'm confused, please set me straight - this stuff is all new to me.
Thanks for any comments.
--
[ ]
__OIIIIO__
|||=oo=|||
||| |||
11-08-2003, 11:43 AM
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2001 TJ Front Differential
No, you're basically correct. The main problem with manual (selectable)
lockers, as I see it, is twofold. First of all, they are typically more
expensive than the automatic lockers. Air lockers require a source of
compressed air. Even though it's not a bad thing to have aboard your jeep,
it still adds cost. If you're on a limited budget, that, alone, can be a
killer. Second, since they have to have some sort of control mechanism,
installation is more complicated and often includes drilling the
differential and routing the control mechanism to the interior of the jeep
where the driver can reach it. The control mechanism, be it an air line, an
electric cable, or a mechanical cable, is one more item to get damaged by
branches, rocks, etc., potentially leaving your selectable locker
unselectable.
Everything's a trade-off. Many people opt for the simpler systems. Many
people opt for the advantage of controllability. Only you can decide which
suits your jeeping style better.
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Patrick Mills" <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.15.57.46.712213@ix.netcom.com. ..
> On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:17:56 +0000, JimG wrote:
>
> > Hey Andy,
> > Thinking is good, but not this time :-) ARB is not the answer to
> > everything, especially for the front. Just take it out of
> > four-wheel-drive! Front locker... gone (any brand), transparent!
> >
>
> As a newbie to 4-wheeling with a new Jeep TJ, I've been following this
> thread with interest, but I'm confused about the opinion that an ARB is
> not the best answer for the front axle.
>
> It seems to me that the difference on the front axle between a manual and
> an automatic locker would be the ability for the driver, when on the trail
> in 4wd, to *choose* when the front wheels would be locked and when they
> wouldn't.
>
> Aren't there times on the trail when having the front wheels locked in 4wd
> is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
> driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability
> is more advantageous than increased traction...)
>
> If so, the manual (ARB) locker gives you that option, whereas the
> automatic locker does not. Isn't this an advantage to the ARB (assuming
> the owner is not bothered by the cost difference between the automatic and
> the manual locker types)?
>
> If I'm confused, please set me straight - this stuff is all new to me.
> Thanks for any comments.
>
> --
> [ ]
> __OIIIIO__
> |||=oo=|||
> ||| |||
lockers, as I see it, is twofold. First of all, they are typically more
expensive than the automatic lockers. Air lockers require a source of
compressed air. Even though it's not a bad thing to have aboard your jeep,
it still adds cost. If you're on a limited budget, that, alone, can be a
killer. Second, since they have to have some sort of control mechanism,
installation is more complicated and often includes drilling the
differential and routing the control mechanism to the interior of the jeep
where the driver can reach it. The control mechanism, be it an air line, an
electric cable, or a mechanical cable, is one more item to get damaged by
branches, rocks, etc., potentially leaving your selectable locker
unselectable.
Everything's a trade-off. Many people opt for the simpler systems. Many
people opt for the advantage of controllability. Only you can decide which
suits your jeeping style better.
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Patrick Mills" <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.15.57.46.712213@ix.netcom.com. ..
> On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:17:56 +0000, JimG wrote:
>
> > Hey Andy,
> > Thinking is good, but not this time :-) ARB is not the answer to
> > everything, especially for the front. Just take it out of
> > four-wheel-drive! Front locker... gone (any brand), transparent!
> >
>
> As a newbie to 4-wheeling with a new Jeep TJ, I've been following this
> thread with interest, but I'm confused about the opinion that an ARB is
> not the best answer for the front axle.
>
> It seems to me that the difference on the front axle between a manual and
> an automatic locker would be the ability for the driver, when on the trail
> in 4wd, to *choose* when the front wheels would be locked and when they
> wouldn't.
>
> Aren't there times on the trail when having the front wheels locked in 4wd
> is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
> driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability
> is more advantageous than increased traction...)
>
> If so, the manual (ARB) locker gives you that option, whereas the
> automatic locker does not. Isn't this an advantage to the ARB (assuming
> the owner is not bothered by the cost difference between the automatic and
> the manual locker types)?
>
> If I'm confused, please set me straight - this stuff is all new to me.
> Thanks for any comments.
>
> --
> [ ]
> __OIIIIO__
> |||=oo=|||
> ||| |||
11-08-2003, 11:43 AM
#93
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2001 TJ Front Differential
No, you're basically correct. The main problem with manual (selectable)
lockers, as I see it, is twofold. First of all, they are typically more
expensive than the automatic lockers. Air lockers require a source of
compressed air. Even though it's not a bad thing to have aboard your jeep,
it still adds cost. If you're on a limited budget, that, alone, can be a
killer. Second, since they have to have some sort of control mechanism,
installation is more complicated and often includes drilling the
differential and routing the control mechanism to the interior of the jeep
where the driver can reach it. The control mechanism, be it an air line, an
electric cable, or a mechanical cable, is one more item to get damaged by
branches, rocks, etc., potentially leaving your selectable locker
unselectable.
Everything's a trade-off. Many people opt for the simpler systems. Many
people opt for the advantage of controllability. Only you can decide which
suits your jeeping style better.
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Patrick Mills" <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.15.57.46.712213@ix.netcom.com. ..
> On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:17:56 +0000, JimG wrote:
>
> > Hey Andy,
> > Thinking is good, but not this time :-) ARB is not the answer to
> > everything, especially for the front. Just take it out of
> > four-wheel-drive! Front locker... gone (any brand), transparent!
> >
>
> As a newbie to 4-wheeling with a new Jeep TJ, I've been following this
> thread with interest, but I'm confused about the opinion that an ARB is
> not the best answer for the front axle.
>
> It seems to me that the difference on the front axle between a manual and
> an automatic locker would be the ability for the driver, when on the trail
> in 4wd, to *choose* when the front wheels would be locked and when they
> wouldn't.
>
> Aren't there times on the trail when having the front wheels locked in 4wd
> is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
> driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability
> is more advantageous than increased traction...)
>
> If so, the manual (ARB) locker gives you that option, whereas the
> automatic locker does not. Isn't this an advantage to the ARB (assuming
> the owner is not bothered by the cost difference between the automatic and
> the manual locker types)?
>
> If I'm confused, please set me straight - this stuff is all new to me.
> Thanks for any comments.
>
> --
> [ ]
> __OIIIIO__
> |||=oo=|||
> ||| |||
lockers, as I see it, is twofold. First of all, they are typically more
expensive than the automatic lockers. Air lockers require a source of
compressed air. Even though it's not a bad thing to have aboard your jeep,
it still adds cost. If you're on a limited budget, that, alone, can be a
killer. Second, since they have to have some sort of control mechanism,
installation is more complicated and often includes drilling the
differential and routing the control mechanism to the interior of the jeep
where the driver can reach it. The control mechanism, be it an air line, an
electric cable, or a mechanical cable, is one more item to get damaged by
branches, rocks, etc., potentially leaving your selectable locker
unselectable.
Everything's a trade-off. Many people opt for the simpler systems. Many
people opt for the advantage of controllability. Only you can decide which
suits your jeeping style better.
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Patrick Mills" <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.15.57.46.712213@ix.netcom.com. ..
> On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:17:56 +0000, JimG wrote:
>
> > Hey Andy,
> > Thinking is good, but not this time :-) ARB is not the answer to
> > everything, especially for the front. Just take it out of
> > four-wheel-drive! Front locker... gone (any brand), transparent!
> >
>
> As a newbie to 4-wheeling with a new Jeep TJ, I've been following this
> thread with interest, but I'm confused about the opinion that an ARB is
> not the best answer for the front axle.
>
> It seems to me that the difference on the front axle between a manual and
> an automatic locker would be the ability for the driver, when on the trail
> in 4wd, to *choose* when the front wheels would be locked and when they
> wouldn't.
>
> Aren't there times on the trail when having the front wheels locked in 4wd
> is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
> driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability
> is more advantageous than increased traction...)
>
> If so, the manual (ARB) locker gives you that option, whereas the
> automatic locker does not. Isn't this an advantage to the ARB (assuming
> the owner is not bothered by the cost difference between the automatic and
> the manual locker types)?
>
> If I'm confused, please set me straight - this stuff is all new to me.
> Thanks for any comments.
>
> --
> [ ]
> __OIIIIO__
> |||=oo=|||
> ||| |||
11-08-2003, 11:43 AM
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2001 TJ Front Differential
No, you're basically correct. The main problem with manual (selectable)
lockers, as I see it, is twofold. First of all, they are typically more
expensive than the automatic lockers. Air lockers require a source of
compressed air. Even though it's not a bad thing to have aboard your jeep,
it still adds cost. If you're on a limited budget, that, alone, can be a
killer. Second, since they have to have some sort of control mechanism,
installation is more complicated and often includes drilling the
differential and routing the control mechanism to the interior of the jeep
where the driver can reach it. The control mechanism, be it an air line, an
electric cable, or a mechanical cable, is one more item to get damaged by
branches, rocks, etc., potentially leaving your selectable locker
unselectable.
Everything's a trade-off. Many people opt for the simpler systems. Many
people opt for the advantage of controllability. Only you can decide which
suits your jeeping style better.
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Patrick Mills" <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.15.57.46.712213@ix.netcom.com. ..
> On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:17:56 +0000, JimG wrote:
>
> > Hey Andy,
> > Thinking is good, but not this time :-) ARB is not the answer to
> > everything, especially for the front. Just take it out of
> > four-wheel-drive! Front locker... gone (any brand), transparent!
> >
>
> As a newbie to 4-wheeling with a new Jeep TJ, I've been following this
> thread with interest, but I'm confused about the opinion that an ARB is
> not the best answer for the front axle.
>
> It seems to me that the difference on the front axle between a manual and
> an automatic locker would be the ability for the driver, when on the trail
> in 4wd, to *choose* when the front wheels would be locked and when they
> wouldn't.
>
> Aren't there times on the trail when having the front wheels locked in 4wd
> is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
> driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability
> is more advantageous than increased traction...)
>
> If so, the manual (ARB) locker gives you that option, whereas the
> automatic locker does not. Isn't this an advantage to the ARB (assuming
> the owner is not bothered by the cost difference between the automatic and
> the manual locker types)?
>
> If I'm confused, please set me straight - this stuff is all new to me.
> Thanks for any comments.
>
> --
> [ ]
> __OIIIIO__
> |||=oo=|||
> ||| |||
lockers, as I see it, is twofold. First of all, they are typically more
expensive than the automatic lockers. Air lockers require a source of
compressed air. Even though it's not a bad thing to have aboard your jeep,
it still adds cost. If you're on a limited budget, that, alone, can be a
killer. Second, since they have to have some sort of control mechanism,
installation is more complicated and often includes drilling the
differential and routing the control mechanism to the interior of the jeep
where the driver can reach it. The control mechanism, be it an air line, an
electric cable, or a mechanical cable, is one more item to get damaged by
branches, rocks, etc., potentially leaving your selectable locker
unselectable.
Everything's a trade-off. Many people opt for the simpler systems. Many
people opt for the advantage of controllability. Only you can decide which
suits your jeeping style better.
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Patrick Mills" <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.15.57.46.712213@ix.netcom.com. ..
> On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:17:56 +0000, JimG wrote:
>
> > Hey Andy,
> > Thinking is good, but not this time :-) ARB is not the answer to
> > everything, especially for the front. Just take it out of
> > four-wheel-drive! Front locker... gone (any brand), transparent!
> >
>
> As a newbie to 4-wheeling with a new Jeep TJ, I've been following this
> thread with interest, but I'm confused about the opinion that an ARB is
> not the best answer for the front axle.
>
> It seems to me that the difference on the front axle between a manual and
> an automatic locker would be the ability for the driver, when on the trail
> in 4wd, to *choose* when the front wheels would be locked and when they
> wouldn't.
>
> Aren't there times on the trail when having the front wheels locked in 4wd
> is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
> driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability
> is more advantageous than increased traction...)
>
> If so, the manual (ARB) locker gives you that option, whereas the
> automatic locker does not. Isn't this an advantage to the ARB (assuming
> the owner is not bothered by the cost difference between the automatic and
> the manual locker types)?
>
> If I'm confused, please set me straight - this stuff is all new to me.
> Thanks for any comments.
>
> --
> [ ]
> __OIIIIO__
> |||=oo=|||
> ||| |||
11-08-2003, 12:20 PM
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2001 TJ Front Differential
> Aren't there times on the trail when having the front wheels locked in 4wd
is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability is
more advantageous than increased traction...) >
Precisely. While the auto locker will be simpler & less troublesome long
term, you won't have the option of conyrolling engagement. For the most part
a locked front end is ok off road, but it can be a handful on tight turns as
the vehicle will resist attemts to turn at all. ARBs aren't foolproof, as
they can take a bit to release. So, if you forget to unlock you may have to
go through some vehicular gyrations to pop it loose.
We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails have
very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the maneuverability you
mention.
is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability is
more advantageous than increased traction...) >
Precisely. While the auto locker will be simpler & less troublesome long
term, you won't have the option of conyrolling engagement. For the most part
a locked front end is ok off road, but it can be a handful on tight turns as
the vehicle will resist attemts to turn at all. ARBs aren't foolproof, as
they can take a bit to release. So, if you forget to unlock you may have to
go through some vehicular gyrations to pop it loose.
We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails have
very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the maneuverability you
mention.
11-08-2003, 12:20 PM
#96
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2001 TJ Front Differential
> Aren't there times on the trail when having the front wheels locked in 4wd
is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability is
more advantageous than increased traction...) >
Precisely. While the auto locker will be simpler & less troublesome long
term, you won't have the option of conyrolling engagement. For the most part
a locked front end is ok off road, but it can be a handful on tight turns as
the vehicle will resist attemts to turn at all. ARBs aren't foolproof, as
they can take a bit to release. So, if you forget to unlock you may have to
go through some vehicular gyrations to pop it loose.
We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails have
very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the maneuverability you
mention.
is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability is
more advantageous than increased traction...) >
Precisely. While the auto locker will be simpler & less troublesome long
term, you won't have the option of conyrolling engagement. For the most part
a locked front end is ok off road, but it can be a handful on tight turns as
the vehicle will resist attemts to turn at all. ARBs aren't foolproof, as
they can take a bit to release. So, if you forget to unlock you may have to
go through some vehicular gyrations to pop it loose.
We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails have
very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the maneuverability you
mention.
11-08-2003, 12:20 PM
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2001 TJ Front Differential
> Aren't there times on the trail when having the front wheels locked in 4wd
is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability is
more advantageous than increased traction...) >
Precisely. While the auto locker will be simpler & less troublesome long
term, you won't have the option of conyrolling engagement. For the most part
a locked front end is ok off road, but it can be a handful on tight turns as
the vehicle will resist attemts to turn at all. ARBs aren't foolproof, as
they can take a bit to release. So, if you forget to unlock you may have to
go through some vehicular gyrations to pop it loose.
We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails have
very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the maneuverability you
mention.
is not as desirable as an open diff? (For example, If I want both axles
driving, but am in a situation where better steering and maneuverability is
more advantageous than increased traction...) >
Precisely. While the auto locker will be simpler & less troublesome long
term, you won't have the option of conyrolling engagement. For the most part
a locked front end is ok off road, but it can be a handful on tight turns as
the vehicle will resist attemts to turn at all. ARBs aren't foolproof, as
they can take a bit to release. So, if you forget to unlock you may have to
go through some vehicular gyrations to pop it loose.
We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails have
very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the maneuverability you
mention.
11-08-2003, 02:47 PM
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2001 TJ Front Differential
"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorgenospam@frontier.net> wrote in message
news:boj8r8010gg@enews3.newsguy.com...
---snip---
> We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails
> have very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the
> maneuverability you mention.
>
No ----! That's part of what keeps our ambulance association busy. Hell,
U. S. 550 has a few tight turns, if you look at the accident reports...
Earle
news:boj8r8010gg@enews3.newsguy.com...
---snip---
> We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails
> have very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the
> maneuverability you mention.
>
No ----! That's part of what keeps our ambulance association busy. Hell,
U. S. 550 has a few tight turns, if you look at the accident reports...
Earle
11-08-2003, 02:47 PM
#99
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2001 TJ Front Differential
"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorgenospam@frontier.net> wrote in message
news:boj8r8010gg@enews3.newsguy.com...
---snip---
> We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails
> have very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the
> maneuverability you mention.
>
No ----! That's part of what keeps our ambulance association busy. Hell,
U. S. 550 has a few tight turns, if you look at the accident reports...
Earle
news:boj8r8010gg@enews3.newsguy.com...
---snip---
> We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails
> have very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the
> maneuverability you mention.
>
No ----! That's part of what keeps our ambulance association busy. Hell,
U. S. 550 has a few tight turns, if you look at the accident reports...
Earle
11-08-2003, 02:47 PM
#100
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2001 TJ Front Differential
"Gerald G. McGeorge" <gmcgeorgenospam@frontier.net> wrote in message
news:boj8r8010gg@enews3.newsguy.com...
---snip---
> We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails
> have very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the
> maneuverability you mention.
>
No ----! That's part of what keeps our ambulance association busy. Hell,
U. S. 550 has a few tight turns, if you look at the accident reports...
Earle
news:boj8r8010gg@enews3.newsguy.com...
---snip---
> We're sensitive to these things around here. A lot of our alpine trails
> have very tight switchbacks with sheer dropoffs requiring the
> maneuverability you mention.
>
No ----! That's part of what keeps our ambulance association busy. Hell,
U. S. 550 has a few tight turns, if you look at the accident reports...
Earle